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Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay

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I know this is probably going to cause a huge firestorm, but please know that is not my intention at all. I usually don't get into threads that become a political debate here on TK as I prefer to keep my views and beliefs to myself. I was just curious to see how many of you ladies had heard about and/or have been following this story and if you have, your comments/thoughts on the issue. Obviously it is a huge issue in my hometown right now and I received this link: https://www.change.org/petitions/bishop-frederick-campbell-and-the-diocese-of-columbus-stand-up-for-religious-liberty-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-christ# from a friend in one of the groups I am in at church asking our Bishop to stand up for the Church's values and beliefs.

Here is the link from one of the local news stations from when the story first broke: http://www.nbc4i.com/story/22006466/bishop-watterson-pe-teacher-talks-to-nbc4-after-dismissal

I find it interesting this lady from church sent me this e-mail in the first place and I had to read and re-read it very carefully given her stance on gay's and marriage of which we just discussed last Sunday in our Familia meeting. I am actually really proud of her that she signed this petition and she admitted it was a very hard thing to do.  

What are your thoughts/opinions on it? Agree/disagree with the Church's decision to terminate her? FWIW, I am not trying to start a political debate here, even though I understand some may see it playing a role in this issue. Let's just say there are plenty of political and non-political influences that have gotten involved and they say their fight is far from over. The Church has not backed down from their original statement and see the issue as as a done deal. I just pray Bishop Campbell and the Church stand their ground on this.
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Re: Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay

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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    I feel like this is a very black-and-white issue for the church and for the teacher.  She signed a contract agreeing to uphold the school's code of conduct, was found out of conduct, and her position was terminated.

    People can argue all they want about whether or not being in a homosexual relationship falls under the category of "against the code of conduct," but the argument is almost completely moot.  Catholic school.  Catholic rules.

    Teachers in other Christian schools (Christian or otherwise) have been removed from their position for the same or similar reasons, all involving the school's moral code.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] member
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    I agree with you very much prof. I am sort of curious as to when the media will get that clue as well.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] member
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    The teacher originally said she didn't want her job back, but I think she does. I know these political organizations would probably get involved anyway, but the teacher continues to speak out about her job in the media. And the sad part is that these organizations have persuaded the students of the school to support her and there have been many rallies by the students wanting her to return as a teacher. It just makes me so sad that these children going to Catholic school think that the Church's decision to uphold this rule was wrong. I understand them liking her has a teacher, but they on the other hand, they need to understand the Church's teachings. I also realize it was their parents choice to enroll them in a Catholic school and they are at the age that they are forming their own opinions and beliefs. I just don't know what can be done about this. I guess the Church just has to continue what it has been doing for thousands of years.
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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    The unfortunate thing is that she appears to be a very well-loved teacher, so it sucks for everyone involved.  But the fact is she had to have known that she was in a situation where she could potentially lose her job.  I don't know how I would react as a teenager, so I feel like if any of my teachers were removed for what I thought to be trivial reasons, I'd be pretty upset about it, too.
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    Resa77Resa77
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    These situations are definitely tricky, but I totally agree with professor. A Catholic school cannot alllow teachers to cause scandal. If she were married outside the Church to a man, or if she were cohabitating with a man, her employment would have been terminated. Or at least, should be. This isn't a specifically antigay thing; this is upholding Catholic beliefs on sexuality and marriage.

     

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    MizLizzMizLizz member
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    Two of the Franciscan priests I had in high school died of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndome, aka AIDS

    I know two diecesan priests who died of AIDS

    An aux. bishop in New York died of AIDS.

    If the Catholic bishops were as vigilant rooting out priest-pedophiles as are they about expelling LGBT Catholics from their midsts ...
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    MizLizzMizLizz member
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    Two of the Franciscan priests I had in high school died of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndome, aka AIDS

    I know two diecesan priests who died of AIDS

    An aux. bishop in New York died of AIDS.

    If the Catholic bishops were as vigilant rooting out priest-pedophiles as are they about expelling LGBT Catholics from their midsts ...
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    monkeysipmonkeysip member
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    In Response to Re: Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay:
    [QUOTE]Two of the Franciscan priests I had in high school died of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndome, aka AIDS I know two diecesan priests who died of AIDS An aux. bishop in New York died of AIDS. If the Catholic bishops were as vigilant rooting out priest-pedophiles as are they about expelling LGBT Catholics from their midsts ...
    Posted by MizLizz[/QUOTE]

    Ummm, the first part of your post and the second part have nothing to do with each other.  What does priest-pedophiles have to do with priests who have AIDs?  Are you actually suggesting that these priests got AIDs from children?  *headdesk*

    This is just another pathetic attempt to try and distract from legitimate issues by bringing up the priestly abuse scandals, when the two have nothing to do with each other.

    This teach violated her contract.  Period.

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    lalaith50lalaith50 member
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    "Two of the Franciscan priests I had in high school died of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndome, aka AIDS I know two diecesan priests who died of AIDS An aux. bishop in New York died of AIDS. If the Catholic bishops were as vigilant rooting out priest-pedophiles as are they about expelling LGBT Catholics from their midsts ...
    Posted by MizLizz"

    [QUOTE] Ummm, the first part of your post and the second part have nothing to do with each other.  What does priest-pedophiles have to do with priests who have AIDs?  Are you actually suggesting that these priests got AIDs from children?  *headdesk* 
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    LOL, yup. Clearly these teachers she had in high school were *stellar* at teaching Introductory Logic 101. No wonder it's nearly impossible to have an informed discussion/argument with anyone these days...
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    Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
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    how ignorant to assume one only gets AIDS from homosexual sex, when in fact, homosexuals are not even the largest group afflicted by AIDS.  its actually promiscuous heterosexuals!  and there are people who got it from blood transfusions back before the blood was screened the way it is now.
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    banana468banana468 member
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    I have to agree too. However, if there are others working for the school who are not adhering to the moral code living together when not married, etc AND the school is aware of this then the fired teacher could have a serious lawsuit she could bring against the school. You can't enforce policy arbitrarily.
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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    In Response to Re:Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay:
    [QUOTE]I have to agree too. However, if there are others working for the school who are not adhering to the moral code living together when not married, etc AND the school is aware of this then the fired teacher could have a serious lawsuit she could bring against the school. You can't enforce policy arbitrarily.
    Posted by banana468[/QUOTE]

    Definitely.  And something that all schools should be upholding, not just this one.
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    lalaith50lalaith50 member
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    [QUOTE] Right. Is the school certain that none of the other teachers are using contraception in their marriage? Have they also confirmed that none of their unmarried teachers are living with their boyfriend?
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]
    I think there is a difference between a *public* sinful action (or acknowledgement of a sinful action) and a completely private one. The teacher made it public when it was put in the newspaper... the school wasn't going around knocking on her door asking who she was living with or sleeping with. 
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    meltoinemeltoine member
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    Everyone sins. You can't go down the road of firing every teacher who sins because obviously then you'd have no teachers. But there's a pretty easy distinction between struggling with sin and doing the best you can, vs. publicly declaring that you are living in contrast to Church doctrine without intention to change your behavior. I hope that this school, and others like it, are also firing people who cohabitate, are members of Catholics for Choice, married outside the Church, etc. People who don't believe that homosexual acts are sinful latch onto these stories as an example of how judgmental the Church is, and a little consistency would go a long way. Public declarations of beliefs in contrast to those of the Church should be firable offenses. We have to take a stand, but I hope we're doing it evenhandedly.
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    lalaith50lalaith50 member
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    [QUOTE] I find it REALLY hard to believe that this teacher was able to "hide" her relationship until this mother called the school.  She had been teaching there for 19 years.  Someone had to have known that she was in a same-sex relationship.   Don't get me wrong; I believe she was in violation of her contract as a teacher at a Catholic school.  I also think that the Church needs to be more consistent in how we "enforce" this.   Chances are, there is a teacher who casually mentioned in the faculty break room that she & her boyfriend are moving in.  Or there is another who has talked about her fertility struggle and mentioned that she & her husband are going to look into IVF.  If they are going to fire Hale, then there needs to be a consistent process for any faculty member who is living in defiance of the Church's teachings and in violation of the contract.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]
    From a purely legal standpoint - putting it in the newspaper is acompletely different kind of "proof" than "he said/she said..."
    I think it would be great if Catholic organizations could and would fire anyone who was "obstinantly/persistently living in mortal sin." (this is distinct from "yes, everyone sins.") But I don't think it's practical (and I'm not sure how legally enforceable) it would be, if they had to follow up every single bit of hearsay about what someone said, for example.
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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    In Response to Re:Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay : I find it REALLY hard to believe that this teacher was able to "hide" her relationship until this mother called the school.  She had been teaching there for 19 years.  Someone had to have known that she was in a same-sex relationship.   Don't get me wrong; I believe she was in violation of her contract as a teacher at a Catholic school.  I also think that the Church needs to be more consistent in how we "enforce" this.   Chances are, there is a teacher who casually mentioned in the faculty break room that she & her boyfriend are moving in.  Or there is another who has talked about her fertility struggle and mentioned that she & her husband are going to look into IVF.  If they are going to fire Hale, then there needs to be a consistent process for any faculty member who is living in defiance of the Church's teachings and in violation of the contract.
    Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

    I completely agree with you, but that's also a difficult road to go down without any substantial proof (like Lala mentioned).  It's entirely possible that people a) knew and didn't do anything, b) knew and counseled her re: the consequences of her actions, or c) just didn't know (or chose not to notice).
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    chelseamb11chelseamb11 member
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    In Response to Re:Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay:
    [QUOTE]I think there is a difference between a *public* sinful action (or acknowledgement of a sinful action) and a completely private one. The teacher made it public when it was put in the newspaper... the school wasn't going around knocking on her door asking who she was living with or sleeping with. 
    Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this completely as well with the post below it.

    Everyone sins.  It's a part of our nature.  However, sins (and forgiveness of those sins) is completely private.  I don't even tell my husband what I say in confession and I tell him everything.  But any sort of confession is pretty null and void if you have no intention of stopping the sinful behavior.

    I cannot stand the articles that keep stating she was fired for being a homosexual.
    No.
    She was fired for acting upon her homosexual tendencies.  There is such a huge difference that I wish people would get.

    I don't care if her contract stated she had to dye her hair purple on the 10th of every month or had to spend the first 5 minutes of each class standing on her head.  If she signed it and she breached it, end of story.  Nobody forced her to sign the contract.  If she didn't think she could uphold it, then she shouldn't have signed it to begin with.
     
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    ohmrs2014ohmrs2014 mod
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    I don't usually post here, just usually lurk, but I agree that she was against the schools moral code.  A friend of mine was teaching in a Catholic School and she became pregnant, and not married.  The school let her go because she wasn't upholding the schools moral code.
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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    In Response to Re: Catholic teacher fired b/c she is openly gay:
    [QUOTE]I don't usually post here, just usually lurk, but I agree that she was against the schools moral code.  A friend of mine was teaching in a Catholic School and she became pregnant, and not married.  The school let her go because she wasn't upholding the schools moral code.
    Posted by 50ShadesofMe[/QUOTE]

    This happened at a nonCatholic Christian school in Dallas, and actually made national news. 
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    libby18belllibby18bell member
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    Just as an FYI, she didn't put it in the paper.  It was in her mother's obituary, so she didn't publicly state it.
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    lalaith50lalaith50 member
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    [QUOTE]Just as an FYI, she didn't put it in the paper.  It was in her mother's obituary, so she didn't publicly state it.
    Posted by libby18bell[/QUOTE]
    Well, someone decided it would be made public. I don't think it really matters whether it was her or one of her siblings or whatever - I doubt she was opposed.

    The story about the pregnant girl getting fired is interesting - it's not like she herself actually announced to the world she was sleeping with someone and not married. Maybe people even unofficially "knew" she was being immoral that way earlier, but it was when it became obvious, public knowledge that she was fired. Same with the obituary.
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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    libby18bell said:
    Just as an FYI, she didn't put it in the paper.  It was in her mother's obituary, so she didn't publicly state it.
    I find it hard to believe she didn't have a hand in or at least proofread the obituary.  It's not like someone threw that in there to spite her.
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    Riss91Riss91 member
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    I think that we are all responsible for our actions. If you sign a contract as part of your employment, and you violate the contract, you shouldn't complain if you are discharged. It doesn't matter how the schools found out. However, I do think that in the spirit of charity and forgiveness, the Catholic schools should offer a "probationary period" where the person can repent and attempt to bring themselves back into grace. If they refuse to try, then release them. If they are unable to turn things around after the probationary period, release them.

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    chelseamb11chelseamb11 member
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    TXKristan said:
    professorscience said:
    libby18bell said:
    Just as an FYI, she didn't put it in the paper.  It was in her mother's obituary, so she didn't publicly state it.
    I find it hard to believe she didn't have a hand in or at least proofread the obituary.  It's not like someone threw that in there to spite her.
    exactly.  When my grandfather passed away, I listed my aunt and her partner in the obituary.  She thanked me for including her partner.  I seriously doubt the teacher was upset that she was listed.
    I'll bet she is upset now...
     
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    CrazyCatLady3CrazyCatLady3 member
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    I understand the position of the school here as part of a private institution that wants its representatives to abide by its beliefs.  However I have to disagree with the title of that position re: standing up for "the gospel of jesus christ."  The gospels say (and Jesus said) nothing about homosexuality.  Church doctrine and interpretation of other elements of the Bible do.

    As for the girl who got fired from the other christian school for being pregnant out of wedlock, isn't it ironic that if she had had an abortion, no one would have known and she'd probably still be teaching there.  The school couldn't see her as an opportunity as a positive example of someone in a bad situation deciding to keep their baby (presuming that church that runs the school has a pro-life stance).

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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    CrazyCatLady3 said:
    I understand the position of the school here as part of a private institution that wants its representatives to abide by its beliefs.  However I have to disagree with the title of that position re: standing up for "the gospel of jesus christ."  The gospels say (and Jesus said) nothing about homosexuality.  Church doctrine and interpretation of other elements of the Bible do.

    As for the girl who got fired from the other christian school for being pregnant out of wedlock, isn't it ironic that if she had had an abortion, no one would have known and she'd probably still be teaching there.  The school couldn't see her as an opportunity as a positive example of someone in a bad situation deciding to keep their baby (presuming that church that runs the school has a pro-life stance).

    I agree with you to a certain extent.  The fact is that the woman in question is an adult capable of making her own decisions.  Yes, the sin of premarital sex would certainly be exacerbated by also having an abortion, but that doesn't change the fact that the teacher was living outside of her school's moral code.  Against code of conduct = fired.
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    agapecarrieagapecarrie member
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    Matthew 19 is pretty clear
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    Resa77Resa77
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    Here's the thing about the firing-pregnant-teachers thing: you don't know, just by her being pregnant, whether she sinned, and whether it was a one-time thing versus a lifestyle thing.  Perhaps she was raped.  Perhaps she fell to temptation one time.  While it's more likely that she's leading a sexually active lifestyle, you cannot know that just by noticing she's pregnant.  So to fire her is basically like "well, people are judgmental and make unfair assumptions about people,and therefore her pregnancy is scandalous."  Publishing in a newspaper about your gay marriage?  That's publicly admitting to sin.  Living with your boyfriend?  Public sin.  Being pregnant?  That's never a sin.  That actions to become pregnant CAN be sinful, but aren't always.  I agree that it sends a mixed message about abortion.  

     

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    monkeysipmonkeysip member
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    I agree that it would be nice for school officials to give the staff members a chance to amend their lifestyle.  I also agree that being pregnant is not a sin and shouldn't be conflated with the actions that led to it.

    Although it's possible in some of these cases that they did give the employee that chance and the employee refused to amend anything.  We don't hear all the facts.

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    professorscienceprofessorscience member
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    I know that in the case I was speaking of (which didn't happen at a Catholic school), not only was the pregnant teacher unrepentant, she went as far as to claim that her situation was somehow not as bad because she was engaged to be married, which didn't go over too well with a lot of people who interpreted her comments as a slam against single mothers.
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