Dear Abby Article

PrettyGirlLost · May 2013

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli said:

cmsciulli said:

This is becoming as silly as the dating terminology people use in high school and college- "Oh well we aren't going out, we are just talking." What the hell does any of that even mean? Either you are dating someone, or you are not.

Unfortunately the term 'dating' is kind of loosely defined. I've definitely heard people say "oh he's not my boyfriend, we're just dating" because it sounds better than "we go to dinner and mess around once in a while but we're not exclusive" I feel like the title you give is more significant than the verb - "boyfriend" is pretty clear
I don't think so, to me dating implies exclusivity. What you described is playing the field to me. I agree with you on titles.

H and I dated for nearly two years before we were exclusive. We went out on dates regularly (usually a couple of times a week), had sex, and were definitely more than friends. But we weren't "boyfriend/girlfriend" because we were both still seeing other people as well. What would you call that?

I would call that friends w/benefits or playing the field- and I use those terms w/o any judgement or negative connotations. Like I said, to me dating implies a couple is exclusive.

I'm curious though, what did you refer to each other as, friends or you didn't assign any titles?

PrettyGirlLost · May 2013

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli said:

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli said:

I don't think so, to me dating implies exclusivity. What you described is playing the field to me. I agree with you on titles.

H and I dated for nearly two years before we were exclusive. We went out on dates regularly (usually a couple of times a week), had sex, and were definitely more than friends. But we weren't "boyfriend/girlfriend" because we were both still seeing other people as well. What would you call that?

I would call that friends w/benefits or playing the field- and I use those terms w/o any judgement or negative connotations. Like I said, to me dating implies a couple is exclusive.

I'm curious though, what did you refer to each other as, friends or you didn't assign any titles?

See, friends with benefits to me say "sex with no romantic attachment or feelings", which would not be accurate at all.

We didn't call each other specifically by titles or use them for introductions, but did reference each other as "a guy I'm dating" or "this girl I'm dating" when explanation of who we were was needed for conversation with others.

Well, you got me there. . . you are more of a complex case! In my circle friends with benefits is as you described, but dating is a term used only when people are seeing one other person.

I had a few friends who were in similar situations as you and your H, but they didn't say they were dating anyone; I think they just introduced the people they were seeing by 1st name in introductions.

Peledreamsofrain · May 2013

Post removed due to GBCK

PrettyGirlLost · May 2013

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli, that's fair. For the record, I'm not offended at all, I was just honestly curious.

I find the idea of moving directly from "acquaintances" to "exclusive relationship" so odd and uncomfortable. It's always interesting to see how different people view it. For me, dating is "I am attracted to you and have romantic feelings for you, and I'd like to continue spending time together while we figure out if this has a future or not." Exclusivity is "I am now sure that I want to be with you more than anyone else in the world, for right now. Let's give it a go and see if that's something we're interested in long term."

Oh no worries, I was curious too. . . I enjoy talking about relationships and human behavior. It is quite interesting, and I enjoy getting differing viewpoints from people. But since this is a public forum and it's hard to infer tone, in my original response to you I just wanted to make sure I clarified that I personally wasn't judging your relationship, because I know the terms I mentioned can have a negative connotation.

This all makes perfect sense to me. I think my issue, well more like pet peeve, is the term "talking"- I just never got that one. But with how you explained it and what Kate had said above, I can see how the term dating could have a looser definition than what I am used to.

shilin008 · May 2013

I'm confused. There are experts and people saying one thing and experts and people saying another.

I think the smart thing is to go on a case-by-case basis.

Example, If you are:

1. Single/dating and know few or no people at the wedding = +1
2. Single/ dating and know most guests there = no +1
3. Dating for 1 year or more and I know of her/him = +1
4. Dating for less than 1 year and I don't know him/her = refer to #1 & 2

I would also look at how close we are personally as friends or just acquaintance.

ohmrs2014 · May 2013

shilin008 said:

I'm confused. There are experts and people saying one thing and experts and people saying another.

I think the smart thing is to go on a case-by-case basis.

Example, If you are:

1. Single/dating and know few or no people at the wedding = +1
2. Single/ dating and know most guests there = no +1
3. Dating for 1 year or more and I know of her/him = +1
4. Dating for less than 1 year and I don't know him/her = refer to #1 & 2

This is where the problem then lies. If someone is dating someone, regardless of whether or not they will know other people at the wedding, its still rude to not invite the person that they are dating. Your splitting up a couple. If you were dating someone and you weren't allowed to bring them to an event, you would be upset.

shilin008 · May 2013

It's actually happened to me and I wasn't upset at all. I completely understand that as a stranger, why should I expect to be fed and celebrate a couple I don't even know? I also have friends who were OK with not being invited or having a plus one.

It's not fair to the bride and groom to be keeping tabs on a guests love life and recognize their definitions of dating, seeing, talking to, committed, etc. etc etc...yesh.

I think a wedding is for the bride and groom and as hosts, it makes complete sense to me that they are entitled to not want strangers at their wedding. I dunno, I really don't think there is a clear answer to this obviously but personally I feel some people are being to sensitive regarding this issue.

ohmrs2014 · May 2013

I just find it highly rude to now invite a person that is dating one of your guests. But we are allowed to agree to disagree but to say that some people are sensitive is a bit much.

StephJean83 · May 2013

shilin008 said:
It's actually happened to me and I wasn't upset at all. I completely understand that as a stranger, why should I expect to be fed and celebrate a couple I don't even know? I also have friends who were OK with not being invited or having a plus one.

It's not fair to the bride and groom to be keeping tabs on a guests love life and recognize their definitions of dating, seeing, talking to, committed, etc. etc etc...yesh.

I think a wedding is for the bride and groom and as hosts, it makes complete sense to me that they are entitled to not want strangers at their wedding. I dunno, I really don't think there is a clear answer to this obviously but personally I feel some people are being to sensitive regarding this issue.

As someone who was a "stranger" to the bride and groom at 4 weddings I attended in the last year and half and barely acquainted with the bride and groom at 2 weddings in that span, I would be offended if they only invited my FH and not me. We were living together for all but one of the weddings, and by the 3rd weddings we had my engagement ring being made and were engaged. If my FH's hadn't invited me to their weddings because they didn't know me, I probably wouldn't get to meet most of them our wedding because not many of our friends are local to us.

I don't think a bride and groom has to "keep tabs" but if the people you are inviting are your closest friends and family, it is a good bet you would have some idea if they were with someone. If someone is like my FH's cousin who doesn't disclose if she is dating anyone, I would have FH or FMIL find out if she is dating someone and their name. It isn't that hard to send a quick text/email/call and say "Hey Sally, we are getting ready to address invites. Just wondering the correct spelling of your boyfriend's name." Or something similar to find out if they have someone they are dating and honestly, most of it can be done by looking at their FB page anyways.

Dreamergirl8812 · May 2013

Ryan: The first lesson of Silicon Valley, actually, is that you only think about the user, the experience. You actually don't think about the money. Ever.

Andy: That sounds weird.

TiaTea · May 2013

Seems like Carley ( I would thinkg this is Carley Roney - the founder of TK ) have answered it in a similar manner as Dear Abby

http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-questions/top-wedding-questions/qa/allowing-single-guests-to-bring-date.aspx

Ask Carley Q+A > Most Asked Questions

"Q&A: Guest List: Let Single Wedding Guests Bring a Date?

Q.

My fiance and I are paying for most of our wedding and we are on a tight budget. We would like to invite as many people as possible, which makes it tough to invite singles with guests. Is it acceptable to invite single family and friends but not include "and guest" on their invitations? My fiance says we have to allow wedding guests to bring a date out of courtesy. I just don't want to eliminate people just because we're obligated to let them bring a guest that we can't afford. What should we do?

A.

This is an age-old debate. Your fiance has a point -- it is gracious to allow single guests to bring a date so they won't feel awkward or left out. But your point is valid too -- if you can't afford the extra guests, it may be even worse to cut people from your guest list just because you can't let them bring a friend. Deal with this problem on a case-by-case basis. If you have unmarried friends and relatives in long-term relationships, you might want to consider inviting their partners. (Even though they're not married, they're committed.) Then, invite your more single friends and relatives without dates rather than crossing them off your wedding guest list altogether. If anyone complains, simply explain your dilemma -- it was important that they be there, but that you couldn't afford to invite dates. Then, carefully consider where to seat them at the wedding; you may want to put them with other singles so they won't get stuck at a table of couples. Who knows, two of your guests might even make a match at your wedding! "

She said that You might want to consider inviting people who are in long term commited relationship, not just dates. There is a common sense difference.

StephJean83 · May 2013

TiaTea said:

Seems like Carley ( I would thinkg this is Carley Roney - the founder of TK ) have answered it in a similar manner as Dear Abby
http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-questions/top-wedding-questions/qa/allowing-single-guests-to-bring-date.aspx
Ask Carley Q+A > Most Asked Questions
"Q&A: Guest List: Let Single Wedding Guests Bring a Date?

Q.

My
fiance and I are paying for most of our wedding and we are on a tight
budget. We would like to invite as many people as possible, which makes
it tough to invite singles with guests. Is it acceptable to invite
single family and friends but not include "and guest" on their
invitations? My fiance says we have to allow wedding guests to bring a
date out of courtesy. I just don't want to eliminate people just because
we're obligated to let them bring a guest that we can't afford. What
should we do?

A.

This is an age-old debate. Your fiance has a point -- it is
gracious to allow single guests to bring a date so they won't feel
awkward or left out. But your point is valid too -- if you can't afford
the extra guests, it may be even worse to cut people from your guest
list just because you can't let them bring a friend. Deal with this
problem on a case-by-case basis. If you have unmarried friends and
relatives in long-term relationships, you might want to consider
inviting their partners. (Even though they're not married, they're
committed.) Then, invite your more single friends and relatives without
dates rather than crossing them off your wedding guest list altogether.
If anyone complains, simply explain your dilemma -- it was important
that they be there, but that you couldn't afford to invite dates. Then,
carefully consider where to seat them at the wedding; you may want to
put them with other singles so they won't get stuck at a table of
couples. Who knows, two of your guests might even make a match at your
wedding! "
She said that You might want to consider inviting people who are in long term commited relationship, not just dates. There is a common sense difference.

The Knot is in the wedding industry and the bottomline is their main concern and not the brides and grooms being courteous to their friends and family. To them if you have a 300 person guest list it is better to send 300 invites, have 300 people shop from registries vs 150 invites and 150 people shop from registries. Why would it be appropriate on a day celebrating love and relationships would you want to split up a couple because you don't know the partner or they aren't married or something?

It blows my mind that people feel it is OK to snub their closest and use lame excuses like, "We don't know him/her." Or "We are paying the wedding ourselves and have a tight budget." If any of FH's friend had left me off the invite and didn't allow him to bring me to their wedding, I would let FH decide if he would want to go but would seriously question including them on our guest list. I would rather skip the wedding altogether than go alone, even though I am one who can have a good time with just my friends.

If any of FH's friends or my friends, had said either of us couldn't come to their weddings because they didn't know me or him, I would probably tell them they would never get the chance. I have seen a lot of faux pas in weddings over the last year and half, but not a single one of them excluded FH or I. In all honesty, most of FH's friends included a note about how excited they were to finally meet me.

StephJean83 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:
" To them if you have a 300 person guest list it is better to send 300 invites, have 300 people shop from registries vs 150 invites and 150 people shop from registries. Why would it be appropriate on a day celebrating love and relationships would you want to split up a couple because you don't know the partner or they aren't married or something?"

Wow -- assumption much? Just as easy to say the Wedding Industrial Complex would prefer that every BF/GF be invited to make for larger wedding, more money for caterer, florist, photographer? And that their saying no REQUIREMENT to invite every BF/GF means LESS money for those vendors.

What assumptions? I might throw out some large numbers but the point is, a 300 person wedding, a 150 person wedding or 50 person wedding, you only send half the amount of invites and what not. My FH and I decided on a 300 person wedding, if that means we have to cut some friends and distant relatives so the guests we do invite can have their SO with them, that's what we have to do. I am not expanding my guest list to 600 because we have 300 friends and family we want to invite plus guests/SO.

Kate61487 · May 2013

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli, that's fair. For the record, I'm not offended at all, I was just honestly curious.

I find the idea of moving directly from "acquaintances" to "exclusive relationship" so odd and uncomfortable. It's always interesting to see how different people view it. For me, dating is "I am attracted to you and have romantic feelings for you, and I'd like to continue spending time together while we figure out if this has a future or not." Exclusivity is "I am now sure that I want to be with you more than anyone else in the world, for right now. Let's give it a go and see if that's something we're interested in long term."

exactly. for different couples that in between time can be shorter or longer, but there's generally some amount of time where you're "the girl I'm seeing" rather than "my girlfriend". For H and I it was only about a month and a half, but we were friends for a year and a half before that so we already knew each other well.

StephJean83 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:
Steph YOU decided on a 300 person wedding. OTHERS may say, I am inviting close friends and family, not really a per person cap. Or way under venue cap. YOU are assuming what will happen if everyone had to invite every BF and GF.

If I was having just our closest friends and family, every guest would be invited with their SO, whether they were married or engaged or dating, regardless if they had been together 50 years or 5 days. As courteous host on a day celebrating love, why not include my loves ones SO? If any of the 7 weddings FH was invited to sans one, last year had excluded me, I would have expressed to him how rude and disrespectful of our relationship that would have been. The only reason I wouldn't have cared about one of them was I had to completely redo my schedule to attend the wedding, so it would have saved me a headache of that.

Yes I did choose to have a 300 person wedding but that doesn't mean every single person over 18 years old is included with their SO or plus one. That includes FH's cousins who never bring their SO to family events anyways. Every SO will be invited by name because that is the proper thing to do and I would rather have people think it is overkill than to inadvertently miss someone and have a friend or relative skip our wedding because they felt slighted.

lyndausvi · May 2013

Kate61487 said:

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli, that's fair. For the record, I'm not offended at all, I was just honestly curious.

I find the idea of moving directly from "acquaintances" to "exclusive relationship" so odd and uncomfortable. It's always interesting to see how different people view it. For me, dating is "I am attracted to you and have romantic feelings for you, and I'd like to continue spending time together while we figure out if this has a future or not." Exclusivity is "I am now sure that I want to be with you more than anyone else in the world, for right now. Let's give it a go and see if that's something we're interested in long term."

exactly. for different couples that in between time can be shorter or longer, but there's generally some amount of time where you're "the girl I'm seeing" rather than "my girlfriend". For H and I it was only about a month and a half, but we were friends for a year and a half before that so we already knew each other well.

A co-worker from another dept introduced me to DH the day he arrived on island. It was at a bar and the same day I passed my captain's license. The whole thing lasted a few minutes and I didn't think twice about him.

The resort was closed during that time so I was not actually working. I flew up the states to be in another wedding and was gone 2 weeks. When I returned I ran into the same group of co-workers at the same bar watching football games. DH and I mutually decided to have a one night stand. He basically never went home again, although still paid a pretty penny in rent as he had just signed a 1 year lease.

On the 4-5? day he said "I'm going to marry you?"

So yeah some of us do go from f'buddies to being engaged and skip the whole "just dating stage"

Kate61487 · May 2013

lyndausvi said:

Kate61487 said:

StageManager14 said:

cmsciulli, that's fair. For the record, I'm not offended at all, I was just honestly curious.

I find the idea of moving directly from "acquaintances" to "exclusive relationship" so odd and uncomfortable. It's always interesting to see how different people view it. For me, dating is "I am attracted to you and have romantic feelings for you, and I'd like to continue spending time together while we figure out if this has a future or not." Exclusivity is "I am now sure that I want to be with you more than anyone else in the world, for right now. Let's give it a go and see if that's something we're interested in long term."

exactly. for different couples that in between time can be shorter or longer, but there's generally some amount of time where you're "the girl I'm seeing" rather than "my girlfriend". For H and I it was only about a month and a half, but we were friends for a year and a half before that so we already knew each other well.

A co-worker from another dept introduced me to DH the day he arrived on island. It was at a bar and the same day I passed my captain's license. The whole thing lasted a few minutes and I didn't think twice about him.

The resort was closed during that time so I was not actually working. I flew up the states to be in another wedding and was gone 2 weeks. When I returned I ran into the same group of co-workers at the same bar watching football games. DH and I mutually decided to have a one night stand. He basically never went home again, although still paid a pretty penny in rent as he had just signed a 1 year lease.

On the 4-5? day he said "I'm going to marry you?"

So yeah some of us do go from f'buddies to being engaged and skip the whole "just dating stage"

I wasn't intending to exclude f'buddies from the spectrum, I just gave "girl I'm seeing" as a possibility in the "not girlfriend" realm. I'm just saying people don't go "Hi I'm Jane, we are now exclusively dating". Whether it's a week or a year there's some buffer zone where you're not a SO and generally once the bf/gf title is applied those involved consider it serious.

TiaTea · May 2013

So many people feel so strongly about it !

To keep things in perspective, and because it was a particular situation in the yahoo link, what would everybody think , if we re-tell the story, but from the point of view of let say the bride ? Sometimes it's easier to understand people if you look from their point of view.

How about a situation similar to this?
http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/976400/fmil-and-motb
( @wiki8 : I apologize , wiki8, if you think it is inappropriate. I don't mean your sitiation per se. It's just an illustration )

In the yahoo link the story is : "Not long ago, I was invited to a friend's daughter's wedding. When I asked if I could bring "Sam," I was told, "No, we don't know him and there are a lot of other people we would like to invite... Sam and I are a couple; he is not a casual boyfriend. Surely, if we were married he would be invited."

And the other side will be something like that : "My Mom insisted on inviting her friends. Originally I didn't want them, because I don't know them, but finally we agreed and she gave me her list. We sent the invitations. Few days later my mom calls me , that one of her friends had called to ask if she can bring a friend , who apparently is not just a casual BF. I told my mom that we don't even know him, and I rather have the people we know at our wedding.We really have no room for him , unless I "uninvite" some other friend"

Every story has another side.
What would be your advice for each side of the story?

ohmrs2014 · May 2013

Personally, if it were one extra guest, I would make room for them whether just making sure I have the extra money to cover the plate by saving extra one month or cutting the cost from somewhere else.

I know that sometimes it can come down to numbers, but I would do everything in my power to make sure my guests were happy.

StephJean83 · May 2013

StageManager14 said:
@Tiatea, my advice would be the same. The bride needs to invite him.

ETA: and as the bride, I would be mortified that we hadn't done so originally. I wouldn't even bat an eye at telling mom to absolutely invite him.

This. I made sure every single guest over 18 years old have their SO or a plus one if they start a relationship in the next year and half.

StephJean83 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:
Steph, that was your decision. Some people may be upset about not being invited, not being bridesmaid, etc. I don't think that just because YOU decided to do this, means it is standard etiquette. People can get upset about what they want.

Yes people maybe mad about not being invited or being in the BP or whatever but it IS proper etiquette to include ALL SO for every guest. Including plus ones is a nice curteousy but I would rather plan on every guest having a SO vs upsetting a loved one because we left off their SO.

StephJean83 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:
Stage, that's fine. But every etiquette book I could fine said that only spouses, fiances and live-in or long-term partners of guests must be invited. So I do not see how it is commonly accepted etiquette.

The books were written years ago when a woman went from living with her parents to maybe a year or two in college and they were married as soon as possible. The long term back than usually meant high school sweethearts where the guy was in collage or in the military but not yet engaged. It hasn't been updated to include people who have been together for years without getting engaged or married or even living with each other.

Who am I to say to my FH's uncle that our relationship is more valid than his because we live together and are getting married and they maintain two homes and aren't engaged or married? Only the two people in a couple can determine the seriousness of their relationship and as their loved one, I respect it and invite them with their loved one.

wiki8 · May 2013

@TiaTea not inappropriate at all! I was just scrolling through this whole thing trying to figure out where I was mentioned lol.

Dreamergirl8812 · May 2013

StageManager14 said:

Ryan: The first lesson of Silicon Valley, actually, is that you only think about the user, the experience. You actually don't think about the money. Ever.

Andy: That sounds weird.
???

It's from The Office. Ryan says something that goes against all common sense, and all Andy can say is "That sounds weird." It pops into my head every day on this forum.

"How do I prevent guests from farting on the dance floor?"
"That sounds weird."

"How do I tell my hairy friend to shave her pits before my wedding?"
"That sounds weird."

"I really need to dis-invite people to my wedding because hotels are booked."
"That sounds weird."

"I need ideas for turning my wedding into a Disney clusterfuck."
"That sounds weird."

Dear Abby Article

Re: Dear Abby Article

Seems like Carley ( I would thinkg this is Carley Roney - the founder of TK ) have answered it in a similar manner as Dear Abby

http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-questions/top-wedding-questions/qa/allowing-single-guests-to-bring-date.aspx

Ask Carley Q+A > Most Asked Questions

"Q&A: Guest List: Let Single Wedding Guests Bring a Date?

Q.

Seems like Carley ( I would thinkg this is Carley Roney - the founder of TK ) have answered it in a similar manner as Dear Abby

http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-questions/top-wedding-questions/qa/allowing-single-guests-to-bring-date.aspx

Ask Carley Q+A > Most Asked Questions

"Q&A: Guest List: Let Single Wedding Guests Bring a Date?

Q.

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