Divorced couple invited - we've got a problem.

s-aries8990 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Syd, your proposal is the same as saying, " Apparently if your ex wants to come, you can't, and he does want to come, so you can't come. So sorry". Its not putting the ball in her court, it is telling her she can't come.

No it's saying "Just an FYI, he's coming so figure it out."

It's not telling her she can't come because if she wanted to, she could notify local police that she will be attending x event and also send him a certified letter stating that she will be at x event. She can take the proper precautions if she wants to.

[Deleted User] · May 2013

Who RSVP first to the wedding? They are the one that gets to come. If it was her, let him know she already RSVP to the wedding (shower doesn't count) and that you can't uninvite her now and that you totally understand that he won't be able to come due to the restraining order. If he RSVP first then he gets to come. You can tell her that he is coming & ask if there will be any problems, if he has a restraining order against her she'll know that she can't come.

If they both RSVP yes I would seriously consider contacting local police department and seeing if they can help you find out if there is a restraining order and tell them why. You have friends that were married when invitied but now divorced and he is saying one thing but you're not sure if he's telling the truth and don't want any drama at your wedding by the police showing up to arrest her in case there is one and she violates it, not thinking he would still go to wedding. You would be saving them work down the road and drama at your wedding, so they might be willing to help you.

Good luck!!!

KDM323 · May 2013

WalkersFurMama said:

When we sent out STD's in late September a couple we are friends with was married. Between then and 4 weeks ago when we mailed out invitations, they filed for and finalized their divorce. The husband was FH's friend from HS but I had gotten SUPER close with the wife and our friendship was the main reason the four of us ever got together - she and I met for lunch/drinks all of the time, the boys never saw each other unless we hung out as couples. So, we decided to invite them both. It was our understanding that the divorce was not particularly ugly or nasty and that they could deal with being in the same room for one night.

Today, FH received a message on FB from his buddy that goes something along the lines of, "There's an issue. Something happened this week and I had to take out a restraining order against FomerWife. I know that we're both invited to the wedding but she can't come if I'm going to. But if you really want her there instead of me, just let me know. The RSVP is ready for the mail as soon as you let me know what you decide."

I'm really put off by this. One, because I'm not sure that he's telling the truth about the restraining order - he has a very long history of lying which is part of what led to the divorce. Two, he's making it a "pick one of us, and if it's not me I'll be pissed" situation.

She was invited to and has already RSVP'd "yes" to my shower (which is next weekend) - we have not yet received her RSVP to the wedding.

FH thinks we should send her an e-mail expressing that we'd (I'd) love to see her at the shower and celebrate with her then, but somehow uninvite her to the wedding. I, have no stinking clue what to do. I don't feel right asking her not to come after sending her an invitation, but if there truly is a restraining order in place, legally she cannot come.

What would the etiquette ladies do?

You know, I was thinking about this more. Odds are if something happened just this week...that is a temporary order that hasn't been made permanent by a judge yet (from what I understand, you get an original temporary restraining order and then a judge will rule and decide whether there is merit for a permanent order...and that usually takes some time depending on where you are located). By the time your wedding gets here, if it is a temporary order it could be vacated and completely irrelevant.

Any chance you can call your female friend and find out what is going on and explain that this guy contacted you and see what she has to say?

mc4dj13 · May 2013

I don't care how good of friends with someone I am, if I am in the midst of a divorce-and a messy one at that- the furthest thing from my mind would be going to a wedding. It is like rubbing salt in a very new wound. I hope this couple can resolve this like adults and not put this burden on you and your fiance.

She has already RSVP'd and you said she was the closer of the 2 anyways. Who on Earth would joke about a restraining order? An immature child, that's who. Better off without him.

Nightingalejules · May 2013

I agree that it's ridiculous that someone put you so obviously in the middle of their drama. I do think that you should contact both of them one more time to say that while you'd love for them both to be there, if they can't (for whatever reason) then that's too bad, but that you don't have any intention of choosing sides. They will have to deal with it themselves.

s-aries8990 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

What if he has already sent the same letter by the time she does? Do you have any idea how the RO would work?

Honestly, they probably both WON'T send a letter. It's a HUGE PITA. They probably don't know that certified mail is the best way to send letters to the other party of a RO. He has taken out the RO, so it would work in favor of him unless otherwise stated (which is why her sending him a certified letter AND contacting the local PD to notify them of her attendance to a party and that she sent a certified letter stating she would be there and asking him not to come would help her).

drexelkathy said:

WalkersFurMama said:

When we sent out STD's in late September a couple we are friends with was married. Between then and 4 weeks ago when we mailed out invitations, they filed for and finalized their divorce. The husband was FH's friend from HS but I had gotten SUPER close with the wife and our friendship was the main reason the four of us ever got together - she and I met for lunch/drinks all of the time, the boys never saw each other unless we hung out as couples. So, we decided to invite them both. It was our understanding that the divorce was not particularly ugly or nasty and that they could deal with being in the same room for one night.

Today, FH received a message on FB from his buddy that goes something along the lines of, "There's an issue. Something happened this week and I had to take out a restraining order against FomerWife. I know that we're both invited to the wedding but she can't come if I'm going to. But if you really want her there instead of me, just let me know. The RSVP is ready for the mail as soon as you let me know what you decide."

I'm really put off by this. One, because I'm not sure that he's telling the truth about the restraining order - he has a very long history of lying which is part of what led to the divorce. Two, he's making it a "pick one of us, and if it's not me I'll be pissed" situation.

She was invited to and has already RSVP'd "yes" to my shower (which is next weekend) - we have not yet received her RSVP to the wedding.

FH thinks we should send her an e-mail expressing that we'd (I'd) love to see her at the shower and celebrate with her then, but somehow uninvite her to the wedding. I, have no stinking clue what to do. I don't feel right asking her not to come after sending her an invitation, but if there truly is a restraining order in place, legally she cannot come.

What would the etiquette ladies do?

You know, I was thinking about this more. Odds are if something happened just this week...that is a temporary order that hasn't been made permanent by a judge yet (from what I understand, you get an original temporary restraining order and then a judge will rule and decide whether there is merit for a permanent order...and that usually takes some time depending on where you are located). By the time your wedding gets here, if it is a temporary order it could be vacated and completely irrelevant.

Any chance you can call your female friend and find out what is going on and explain that this guy contacted you and see what she has to say?

Normally ROs go for 3-6 months for the first round, then 12 until either it can be dropped or made permanent (usually it takes YEARS to build evidence for a permanent RO).

hlvonb · May 2013

I am not 100% sure if anyone mentioned this yet or not but depending on what state you live in, you should be able to look up (for free) if there is a restraining order on her or not. That would at least let you know if he is lying.

photokitty · May 2013

If the ex-wife shows up at your shower she has already done more than the ex-husband did, he didn't even call your fiancé.

FYI - It is very easy to get a temporary restraining order for a month, the follow-up day in court where both parties are present is much harder to get. I know bc an ex-boyfriend was stalking me. I was able to get a temporary one for 30 days and he was served with it after the fact, so he didn't even know I was taking it out on him until it was too late. So this guy could have taken one out on her with lies and then it would be help up when they go to court. If he is a liar this could be what happened.

Good luck!

bbbb78 · May 2013

drexelkathy said:

I'm going to call this as I see it:

This guy is going to be the one who WOULD call the cops at your wedding and have them show up and take the woman out in handcuffs in the middle of your reception - even if she never approached him, etc.

I'd reply to him and tell him that you are not comfortable with the situation and seeing as though she has already replied that she will be attending, unfortunately HE cannot attend because you do not want to have a disturbance at your wedding.

That's probably not proper etiquette...but then again, someone who delivers that kind of drama/ultimatum via a facebook message isn't exactly the epitome of etiquette. I'd hate to see major drama on YOUR day because of this...and it sounds like he is more of a problem then she is.

Kate61487 said:

NYUgirl100 said:

Drex, very astute reading. IF what the guy says is true, that ex-wife can not come if he does, then OP has to decide who she wants. She can not say both invited. Accept him at his word, and say so sorry.

But that's just it - it shouldn't be OP's problem. She invited them both prior to knowing of any drama (she knew they were divorced, but not that it was messy) and shouldn't have to be rude by retracting someone's invitation. They both know the other is invited, it's THEIR drama to figure out who's attending and who's staying home.

I totally want to say "this is not your fight" because it ABSOLUTELY IS NOT, but drexelkathy brings up a good point. you don't want apathy now to lead to more headache down the road. i agree with a PP that your best bet is probably contacting both of them asap explaining the position you are in and telling them to sort it out because it isn't your problem. I think it would be wise to also give them a deadline on when you need a solid answer about who is coming. If nothing gets sorted out by then. She gets to come (since she RSVP'd) and tough for him.

For good measure I would also consider appointing someone as a bouncer of sorts on the day... but what a headache! my absolute sympathies!

OwningAHome1981 · May 2013

It shouldnt be up to the OP to decide, plus she's got enough to worry about. Invite both and let them work it out on their own. I dont think its the OP's decision to make, nor should she.

heathertims · May 2013

While I would normally agree with teh "Stay out of it" advice, I don't in this case.
It seems like he is lying, but heaven forbid he is not, and something happens on your wedding day.

I would just call her, and ask her how she is doing, if they are talking, and if they are going to be ok seeing each other at the wedding. Gauge her response. You dont need to flat out ask her and upset her.

If she says nothing to lead you to believe that a restraining order exists, get FI to call him and say that she is still invited and has rsvpd already, so it is his call.

I know its a super awkward, sticky situation, but like I said, it's your wedding. Ex's can be so crazy to each other, I would just hate for anything to happen as a result at your wedding. Good luck

chaiteachick · May 2013

WalkersFurMama said:

annathy03 said:

Since she is your friend you have drinks with I would simply keep hanging out with her as a friend. It sounds like you are close enough that she would probably bring it up when just the two of you are hanging out, and you could ask her about it then if you're comfortable. Otherwise I'd just let it fall to them, after all if he is lying there is no reason for it to come up or for her not to come, but seat them apart!

FH and I have moved away from Michigan, and all of our friends, and we don't see them in person often anymore. I'll see her next weekend at my shower, but FH is anxious to reply to his friend.

They're from MI? Heh... I actually know quite a few people in MI that this could be, including my ex-fiance. x-P

Good luck.

daveANDkristen · May 2013

Either way, FI should let the guy know that they were both invited to the wedding and need to work out who attends amongst themselves. Rescinding either invitation is a bad idea, IMO. If he is being honest about the TRO, and it is still valid at the time if your wedding, they will have to figure this out legally because they cannot both attend. This is not your fight OP!

phira · May 2013

NYUgirl100, I don't think that the ex-wife attending the shower is gift-grabby. It would be if the OP had no intention of inviting this woman to the wedding, but the invitations for the wedding have been sent. This woman IS invited.

If she ends up not being able to come to the wedding because of the restraining order, that's not bad etiquette on behalf of the bride and groom. It's a legal situation that is NOT the OP's problem.

If I were in this situation, I would find out if there really was a restraining order. If there was, I would tell both of these guests that you are sorry to hear about the situation, but that you do not feel comfortable choosing between them. If there isn't a restraining order, then I'd say tell the ex-husband, "I'm sorry that you can't attend our wedding," since I wouldn't want someone like that at my wedding.

The ex-husband is telling the couple, "You can only pick one of us!" Restraining order or not, that's SUPER rude and childish. I have been in situations where if I don't want to be around an ex, I back out of events, but I NEVER make people choose between us. If there is a restraining order, the etiquette would have been either to coordinate with the ex-wife through legal channels, or to tell the bride and groom, "Just so you know, there's a restraining order. Will you let me know if my ex-wife decides to attend?"

lyndausvi · May 2013

I'm actually surprised at how many people are suggesting the person who has the RO against them is the one who gets to come and the one who had to take out the RO has stay at home. Especially without knowing the circumstances.

I can almost guarantee if it was a woman who had to take out an RO on her husband most of the people would say the husband is the one who can't come.

Honestly, I would just do some research on the situation (I'm nosey like that). However, more than likely I would ask both of them not to attend. There are exceptions to everything. I think a messy divorce with an RO out there is a as good a reason as any to tell both of them to stay at home in order to avoid any drama. In addition to that I would not be taking sides by allowing the other to attend.

vanityink · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Phira, at this point, the Bride has NO intention of inviting the woman to the wedding if she is inviting the dude. That is why it is gift grabby. Bride has been TOLD if she invites dude then woman can not be invited.

Lynd, I agree with you as to investigation. I do think people are making are assuming that men are more likely to be violent. I think that assumption is based on crime stats. If woman is just annoying, then I think whomever is the closer to.

From what I understand, both already have been invited. The ex-husband wants bride to contact the ex-wife and pull the invite. It is not about simply not sending her an invite after all (OP correct me if I'm wrong)

I, for one, agree it's not the OP's job to get involved. Their problem is not hers. They can decide who's going to come without OP getting involved.

phira · May 2013

jessicadall said:

NYUgirl100 said:

Phira, at this point, the Bride has NO intention of inviting the woman to the wedding if she is inviting the dude. That is why it is gift grabby. Bride has been TOLD if she invites dude then woman can not be invited.

Lynd, I agree with you as to investigation. I do think people are making are assuming that men are more likely to be violent. I think that assumption is based on crime stats. If woman is just annoying, then I think whomever is the closer to.

From what I understand, both already have been invited. The ex-husband wants bride to contact the ex-wife and pull the invite. It is not about simply not sending her an invite after all (OP correct me if I'm wrong)

I, for one, agree it's not the OP's job to get involved. Their problem is not hers. They can decide who's going to come without OP getting involved.

Right, the invitations were sent out, but neither one has RSVP'd. The ex-husband wants the OP to uninvite his ex-wife.

lyndausvi · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Regardless of whether the bride pulls the invite, if the RO is for real, the woman can not come. In effect, dude has pulled invited for his ex. If the woman was a better friend of couple, I would be pissed if woman can now not come to the wedding. That seems to be what will happen if bride does nothing.

Wait a minute. We do not know the nature of the RO. I think it's a little insensitive to say he somehow pulled the plug on her coming to a wedding by putting out an RO. What if she did actually do something that warranted the RO, its seems to me that her not being able to attend the wedding is just an unfortunate side-effect of her own actions.

"There's an issue. Something happened this week and I had to take out a restraining order against FomerWife. I know that we're both invited to the wedding but she can't come if I'm going to. But if you really want her there instead of me, just let me know. The RSVP is ready for the mail as soon as you let me know what you decide."

I read this as "hey we have problem. We both can't attend to the wedding and this is why. If want her there NBD, just let me know so I can RSVP appropriately." If he wanted to be an ass he wouldn't have said anything and just show up, call the cops when she arrived. He is actually preventing drama at the wedding by making sure he would not be there if she was going to attend.

lyndausvi · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Lynd, are you saying that you think dude has given bride an out to revoke his invite?

yes.

Now I'm not saying that the situation doesn't suck. By saying she is coming he can't. Not a great position to be in for the OP. However, it appears to me he is trying to make as drama free as possible.

Let's face it if he really wanted to be an ass he would have showed up and called the cops on the ex. He could have also been an ass and "demanded" ex's invite be revoked. He is simply saying we both can't be there at the same time. If she is coming I will choose not to attend. If she is not coming, then would like to come.

If the OP wants the girl then she can simply say that ex already "RSVP'd yes". It's not really picking sides as much as she has already stated her plans on attending.

Jen4948 · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Sylvia, Other guests my have situations, but a RO is unique, in that it PREVENTS another guest from attending. Please explain another situation like that.

I'm not Sylvia, but I'm sure this situation has happened any number of other times where one family member takes out a restraining order against another or at least claims they have.

Sorry, but I agree that this is not the couple's problem. It's something he and his attorney need to work out with his ex and her attorney. If he's telling the truth, then he has to leave if his ex shows up, but he does not get to make demands that the ex leave or be uninvited, regardless of whether or not there is a restraining order out. He can only control his own actions.

jenn5628 · May 2013

I'm not sure that this is relevant anymore, but I just read all 88 posts of this thread and was annoyed that no one read the OP correctly - ex wife had RSVP'd yes to the shower, but they have not yet received her RSVP to the wedding. If OP tells ex-husband that ex-wife is coming, so that he won't come, she will be lying.

blueobsidian · May 2013

Jen4948 said:

NYUgirl100 said:

Sylvia, Other guests my have situations, but a RO is unique, in that it PREVENTS another guest from attending. Please explain another situation like that.

I'm not Sylvia, but I'm sure this situation has happened any number of other times where one family member takes out a restraining order against another or at least claims they have.

Sorry, but I agree that this is not the couple's problem. It's something he and his attorney need to work out with his ex and her attorney. If he's telling the truth, then he has to leave if his ex shows up, but he does not get to make demands that the ex leave or be uninvited, regardless of whether or not there is a restraining order out. He can only control his own actions.

Um, no he doesn't, at least not in my jurisdiction. If he has an RO against her, he is under no obligation to leave if she shows up. She is. This is a protective order against HER actions.

I cannot tell you the number of times that people end up in court here for restraining order violations where the person who took out the order initiated the contact. It doesn't matter. It is up to the person whom the RO is taken out against to control their behavior. If he is there and she shows up, he can full well stay and call the cops if he wants to.

Jen4948 · May 2013

blueobsidian said:

Jen4948 said:

NYUgirl100 said:

Sylvia, Other guests my have situations, but a RO is unique, in that it PREVENTS another guest from attending. Please explain another situation like that.

I'm not Sylvia, but I'm sure this situation has happened any number of other times where one family member takes out a restraining order against another or at least claims they have.

Sorry, but I agree that this is not the couple's problem. It's something he and his attorney need to work out with his ex and her attorney. If he's telling the truth, then he has to leave if his ex shows up, but he does not get to make demands that the ex leave or be uninvited, regardless of whether or not there is a restraining order out. He can only control his own actions.

Um, no he doesn't, at least not in my jurisdiction. If he has an RO against her, he is under no obligation to leave if she shows up. She is. This is a protective order against HER actions.

I cannot tell you the number of times that people end up in court here for restraining order violations where the person who took out the order initiated the contact. It doesn't matter. It is up to the person whom the RO is taken out against to control their behavior. If he is there and she shows up, he can full well stay and call the cops if he wants to.

Sorry, but I don't agree. This isn't about your jurisdiction-it's about the demands he can make on the couple, which are none. I think it lies on the person who takes out an RO to stay away from any occasion where the other person might show up-not make demands on the hosts that the other person be excluded from their guest lists. If he uses his RO like a bludgeon, I think he's still violated etiquette.

Jen4948 · May 2013

It would be incredibly rude of him to do that. He has no business taking an RO to someone's wedding and demanding they enforce it with threats to call the police. He is the one who needs to stay home.

vanityink · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Jen, we all get it, that it would be rude of him. The problem is it not within the bride and grooms control. Look at what dude informed bride and groom, that if dude is there woman can not be.
Ctex, the problem is that they both can not come, and that DUDE gets to decide if he comes. The work it out option is not there.

Then he gets to decide who comes. It's them working it out with the B&G getting involved. Whether it's him deciding or them discussing it, it's between the couple, not something the bride should get involved in.

vanityink · May 2013

The woman IS invited to the wedding. The Bride has invited her. Whether or not she can go for any reason doesn't negate the fact that she is invited.

vanityink · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

oh please, another guest is preventing her from coming, and has informed bride. this is not the woman not coming for any reason. It is because another guest has said she can not come. You aren't really suggesting it would be polite to invite the woman to shower, have her bring a gift in that situation? Or, like Iamthemom suggested, let the woman get dressed for wedding, bring a gift, and then be told to leave when dud shows up?

I've gone to showers when I've known I can't go to the wedding. People have gone to showers even when they know their child has something to do on the day of the wedding and they will have to be there instead. Of course it's not exactly the same thing, but you are not required to make sure everyone you invite to the shower has to be able to come to the wedding for any or all reasons. She has been invited to the wedding, it's up to her and her ex to figure out who is going. If the husband doesn't go to the wedding, does that mean OP's FI can't invite him to the bachelor party? I know you don't agree, but the couple has invited both parties. It's none of their everloving business who comes out of them. They are adults and will make their own decisions.

Side note, honestly, if I were the wife and found out I couldn't go to the wedding because my exhusband was being a jackass, I'd be more hurt if my friend said "sorry, since your ex is a jerk, you can't come have fun at the shower either, even if you want to" It's ruder to pull the invite than just keeping your nose out of it IMHO

rajahmd · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Do you think that the woman should be given a heads up that she can not come to the wedding, before the shower? I agree, she should still be allowed to come to shower, but she should know before hand, she wont be allowed at wedding.
If it were your best friend, would you still be OK with dude coming and her staying home?

Umm, she's already been invited to the shower and RSVP yes, per the OP. Telling her she can't now come to shower because her ex has taken out a restraining order and will be attending the wedding which means she can't be there is ridiculous. That's basically rescinding her wedding invitation and shower invitation. Doubly rude. Seriously, this is not OP's problem. She needs to tell the guy that they need to figure it out. They need to be adults and decide who wants to go to the wedding the most. It's not the OP's responsibility to pick who comes when both have already been invited. Again, this is NOT her situation to control. And your idea of rescinding the shower invite would only make matters worse and potentially make that women feel like OP is choosing the man over her, when OP is closer to the woman.

lyndausvi · May 2013

jessicadall said:

NYUgirl100 said:

oh please, another guest is preventing her from coming, and has informed bride. this is not the woman not coming for any reason. It is because another guest has said she can not come. You aren't really suggesting it would be polite to invite the woman to shower, have her bring a gift in that situation? Or, like Iamthemom suggested, let the woman get dressed for wedding, bring a gift, and then be told to leave when dud shows up?

I've gone to showers when I've known I can't go to the wedding. People have gone to showers even when they know their child has something to do on the day of the wedding and they will have to be there instead. Of course it's not exactly the same thing, but you are not required to make sure everyone you invite to the shower has to be able to come to the wedding for any or all reasons. She has been invited to the wedding, it's up to her and her ex to figure out who is going. If the husband doesn't go to the wedding, does that mean OP's FI can't invite him to the bachelor party? I know you don't agree, but the couple has invited both parties. It's none of their everloving business who comes out of them. They are adults and will make their own decisions.

Side note, honestly, if I were the wife and found out I couldn't go to the wedding because my exhusband was being a jackass, I'd be more hurt if my friend said "sorry, since your ex is a jerk, you can't come have fun at the shower either, even if you want to" It's ruder to pull the invite than just keeping your nose out of it IMHO

Why is everyone assuming he is the one being a jack-ass? We do not know the nature of the RO. She could have actually done something to cause the need for the RO. Thus making her own actions causing her not to be able to attend an event they were both invited.

All this speculation that the victim (the one who felt the need to take out an RO) is driving me crazy. I seriously do not think if it was the woman who took at the RO she would be called an ass for "making" her ex not be able to attend a social event.

vanityink · May 2013

NYUgirl100 said:

Do you think that the woman should be given a heads up that she can not come to the wedding, before the shower? I agree, she should still be allowed to come to shower, but she should know before hand, she wont be allowed at wedding.
If it were your best friend, would you still be OK with dude coming and her staying home?

I'd definitely let her know what's going on, but I wouldn't pull the shower invite, and I wouldn't pull her wedding invite.

Of course, if she were my best friend and we weren't so close to the husband I wouldn't be on the forums asking what to do. I would have already said, "all right, thanks for letting us know. X is coming, so guess you can't!" back to the husband. They're both friends of the bride and groom so in this situation it seems like it's someone trying to get friends to take sides in a divorce that they really should stay out of if they want to remain on good terms with both parties.

Divorced couple invited - we've got a problem.

Re: Divorced couple invited - we've got a problem.

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