Alcoholics and Open Bars?

PaganDad · May 2013

My fiance and I are to be married in October. I am 31 years old and I have been sober for almost 9 years (Since returning from combat in Iraq). I am the worst alcoholic I have ever known. I wish that I could drink like "normal" people, but alcohol is my road to suicide. My father is also an alcoholic and will be attending our wedding. My father has been sober longer than I have and his experiences with alcohol and drugs have led him to a point where he does not allow alcohol in his home, and tends to avoid situations where alcohol is a centerpiece for socializing. I sometimes resent that we live in such an alcohol centered society, that is so negatively impacted by alcohol, and I frequently go to war with inner demons when I am around "normal" drinkers (Part of my resentment comes from the fact that so many drinkers are hypocritically opposed to Marijuana use, something that has saved my life and remains my choice for turning a party into something more safely social). My fiance will have a beer now and then with dinner, and I have no qualms about being around her when she does. I accept that not everyone shares my relationship with alcohol, and, despite my societal misgivings, I ,ultimately, come to terms with this when I agree to hang out at places where my friends are drinking, besides, I usually have some weed, so my anxieties are tempered.
But when it comes to my wedding I don't want it to be an issue at all. I have read through many forums where the idea of a cash bar is referred to as faux pax, and tacky, and some even refer to them as insulting to the guests, as if everyone was forced to drink alcohol AND pay for it. I find it insulting, from my side of the fence, that anyone would expect us to pay for a luxury, that is detestable in my opinion. I feel that anyone who needs alcohol to celebrate our wedding, probably doesn't need to be there.
My big issue is that my fiance's family, as well as many others in my own family, do not have the problems with alcohol that I do, and for most of them the idea of a celebratory or recreational function of any kind without alcohol, is not the norm. Much of my fiance's family and mine own will be meeting for the first time, and I know that alcohol tends to be what gets people through these types of social interactions. And for most people this is seen as "normal". My fiance told me that she would be sharing champagne with the bridesmaids during the day of the wedding, but that she would have only two glasses before the ceremony.
I have already told one of the planners that we would like to have a cash bar, but after reading about all these wedding guests who were more concerned about being insulted by the cash bar than the nuptials that were taking place, I am starting to think I should pull the plug on alcohol altogether and make it a dry wedding. I have also considered that if anyone is insulted by the lack of alcohol that I could offer them the alternative of some Colorado homegrown Marijuana, but I would rather not make my wedding reception a forum for me to express my feelings about alcohol and hypocrisy.

Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, opinions, advice, experiences, or criticisms that might help guide my decision?

Weezy56 · May 2013

First off, thank you for your service and good for you for abstaining from alcohol and fighting your demons. I know that must not be an easy thing to work through!

Secondly, I think it would be best to have a dry wedding. Having a cash bar is still rude, and it is likely to still make you and your father uncomfortable because it probably will not stop a lot of people from drinking. This is coming from someone who drinks.

Third, I would nix offering weed to guests. I'm not a smoker, but I have no problem with marijuana believe it should be legalized. However, that doesn't change the fact that it is still illegal and is likely to make some guests uncomfortable, just like alcohol does for you. And depending on where your wedding is taking place it's likely your venue would have a problem with that.

So to sum it up, I say dry wedding all the way. Good luck!

PaganDad · May 2013

Thanks for the input, Weezy. As you can probably tell, I am a bit opinionated about the subject, and I am starting to lean towards no bar. Although, I really don't want to hear crap from some cousin of hers that I have never met, about the lack of alcohol and have to knock someone out at my wedding.

I live in Colorado.

PaganDad · May 2013

And Princess, your experiences confirm many of my own, and I truly don't want alcohol there. My fears about not having alcohol there certainly don't outweigh the fears of what alcohol can bring to the party.

adamnash3309 · May 2013

Gonna be honest, I don't understand the hate against cash bars at all. Why is it rude of me to ASK that people who wish to drink pay for their own "bad habit" (for lack of a better term) but it's perfectly acceptable for them to EXPECT me to pay for it if it's going to be there? I don't go parties or social events with friends and expect them to cover my alcohol, I expect to cover it myself. I want to have the option there for people who wish to have it, but am I truly a horrible human being because I don't want to pay for others to get so drunk that they don't even remember the night and make complete asses of themselves? Not trying to offend or ruffle any feathers, I just genuinely don't understand why it's that big of a deal. If someone wants to explain further or show me the bigger picture on that, please feel free! Maybe there's something about it I'm not thinking of!

Anyway, to the OP...given your and your fathers' battles, I also suggest a dry wedding. You want to enjoy your day, not fear it. You don't wanna spend the night babysitting your father, and nobody else wants to spend the night babysitting you. Also...leave the weed at home. Personally, I couldn't care less...what you do is your business. But just to avoid any arguments about what's right or wrong, I'd say leave it at home. Again, weddings should be joyful, not full of fights, whether personal within oneself or physical.

PaganDad · May 2013

I don't get the hate for cash bars either. If it is rude to have a cash bar then, by that logic, isn't it even more rude for me to have dry wedding. I thought about asking the venue to double there price on alcohol, just to curtail it further but allow it as an option, but ultimately that seemed silly and unlikely.

Regarding the weed. I told weezy that I was being sarcastic about offering it to guests, however it will definitely be with me and I will definitely sneak off, discreetly, at some point with the groomsmen and share a little, but there is no argument about right or wrong, and no reason for me not to, in fact, most people who know me will prefer that I do. Most will never truly know (It's not like I advertise it) but will always prefer my company more when I am not ridden with anxiety and PTSD. Trust me, it's better than the slew of pharmaceuticals the VA throws at me.

So, now that I am feeling more confident about having a dry wedding. How do I get the financiers (fiance's parents) on board?

Weezy56 · May 2013

adamnash3309 said:

Gonna be honest, I don't understand the hate against cash bars at all. Why is it rude of me to ASK that people who wish to drink pay for their own "bad habit" (for lack of a better term) but it's perfectly acceptable for them to EXPECT me to pay for it if it's going to be there? I don't go parties or social events with friends and expect them to cover my alcohol, I expect to cover it myself. I want to have the option there for people who wish to have it, but am I truly a horrible human being because I don't want to pay for others to get so drunk that they don't even remember the night and make complete asses of themselves? Not trying to offend or ruffle any feathers, I just genuinely don't understand why it's that big of a deal. If someone wants to explain further or show me the bigger picture on that, please feel free! Maybe there's something about it I'm not thinking of! Anyway, to the OP...given your and your fathers' battles, I also suggest a dry wedding. You want to enjoy your day, not fear it. You don't wanna spend the night babysitting your father, and nobody else wants to spend the night babysitting you. Also...leave the weed at home. Personally, I couldn't care less...what you do is your business. But just to avoid any arguments about what's right or wrong, I'd say leave it at home. Again, weddings should be joyful, not full of fights, whether personal within oneself or physical.

As a host/hostess it is your responsibility to make sure there is no reason for guests to open their wallets. If you do not want alcohol for any reason whether it be moral, religious, financial, whatever, then you have a dry wedding.

And with regards to the "bad habit"- judgmental much? Drinking is not a bad habit for everyone. There is no lack of a better term.

Weezy56 · May 2013

Pagan,

My bad on the weed part, the sarcasm totally flew over my head

PaganDad · May 2013

No problem. I tend to be overly serious and opinionated and come off like a jerk. My sarcasm was my "in the face" reaction to the fact that I have to research this question at all. The idea that I can have this long, complicated conversation about alcohol, and my wedding, and that there are all sorts of "pro's" and experts who advise people regarding alcohol etiquette, and how you are a jerk if you don't supply it for free, and I DON'T EVEN DRINK. Yet if I mention the safer alternative, and my personal preference, people tend to say "Oh no, Don't say that.". It's just my personal confliction with alcohol hypocrisy, and the fact that I don't go around claiming to be insulted when hosts don't supply me with marijuana.

While I agree with you, that not all drinking can be called a bad habit. It is also my opinion that no drinking can be called a good habit.

adamnash3309 · May 2013

Weezy56 said:

adamnash3309 said:

Gonna be honest, I don't understand the hate against cash bars at all. Why is it rude of me to ASK that people who wish to drink pay for their own "bad habit" (for lack of a better term) but it's perfectly acceptable for them to EXPECT me to pay for it if it's going to be there? I don't go parties or social events with friends and expect them to cover my alcohol, I expect to cover it myself. I want to have the option there for people who wish to have it, but am I truly a horrible human being because I don't want to pay for others to get so drunk that they don't even remember the night and make complete asses of themselves? Not trying to offend or ruffle any feathers, I just genuinely don't understand why it's that big of a deal. If someone wants to explain further or show me the bigger picture on that, please feel free! Maybe there's something about it I'm not thinking of!

Anyway, to the OP...given your and your fathers' battles, I also suggest a dry wedding. You want to enjoy your day, not fear it. You don't wanna spend the night babysitting your father, and nobody else wants to spend the night babysitting you. Also...leave the weed at home. Personally, I couldn't care less...what you do is your business. But just to avoid any arguments about what's right or wrong, I'd say leave it at home. Again, weddings should be joyful, not full of fights, whether personal within oneself or physical.

As a host/hostess it is your responsibility to make sure there is no reason for guests to open their wallets. If you do not want alcohol for any reason whether it be moral, religious, financial, whatever, then you have a dry wedding.

And with regards to the "bad habit"- judgmental much? Drinking is not a bad habit for everyone. There is no lack of a better term.

Well, first off, thank you for the explanation regarding guests opening their wallets. That makes sense, and I can see how it is seen as rude for a lot of people.

As for the "bad habit" remark, I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. I'm a social drinker on occasion. But that doesn't mean I necessarily find drinking to be healthy or the best alternative when presented with beverage options, which is what I meant by "bad habit". It's fine in moderation, but that doesn't make it "good" for a person. My FI doesn't drink at all...never has. I went through my party stage several years back before I met him, but that stopped when we got together. I drink at dinner with friends maybe twice a month, if even that. And I, personally, won't be drinking on my wedding day. So I suppose drinking has just lost it's appeal for me as a whole. Doesn't mean I won't let anyone else partake in it, it just holds no personal appeal for me.

krizzo17 · May 2013

PaganDad said:

. I have read through many forums where the idea of a cash bar is referred to as faux pax, and tacky, and some even refer to them as insulting to the guests, as if everyone was forced to drink alcohol AND pay for it. I find it insulting, from my side of the fence, that anyone would expect us to pay for a luxury, that is detestable in my opinion. I feel that anyone who needs alcohol to celebrate our wedding, probably doesn't need to be there.

I think this right here is where you're confused. No one expects you to pay for the luxury of alcohol (and it is just that - a luxury), it's just rude to offer it and NOT pay for it. I very much agree with the second part of this - if someone *needs *alcohol to attend your wedding, you're better off without them.

As for why a cash bar is rude, it's because you should provide everything you offer your guests. If you had a dinner party, you wouldn't say "there's water and iced tea in the fridge, or a bottle of wine over there for $10", would you? You wouldn't be offended if your host didn't offer you alcohol, but you would be if they offered it for a fee. Hosting a wedding is no different - offer alcohol or don't, just don't charge for it if you do.

That said, I think a dry wedding is the best way to go here. Everyone will still have a wonderful time celebrating your happiness, and everyone will remember what a wonderful time they had

adamnash3309 · May 2013

krizzo17 said:
As for why a cash bar is rude, it's because you should provide everything you offer your guests. If you had a dinner party, you wouldn't say "there's water and iced tea in the fridge, or a bottle of wine over there for $10", would you? You wouldn't be offended if your host didn't offer you alcohol, but you would be if they offered it for a fee. Hosting a wedding is no different - offer alcohol or don't, just don't charge for it if you do.

This is a great explanation, thank you. I've been to several cash bar weddings and have never been offended by it. But it looks like more people are than I realize.

hordol · May 2013

scribe95 said:

Well apparently the OP can't go one night without marijuana so I guess that's a bad habit too huh? And it's illegal.

OP said he lives in Colorado. If I am not mistaken, it is legal there and in Washington.

OP, I agree with dry wedding. I probably wouldn't offer marijuana as an alternative though. Although you are okay with it, it is still a substance that many people are uncomfortable with and I think it would be best to just not go there. How about a substance free wedding?

hordol · May 2013

PrincessNickyJ13 said:

leighbie87 said:

Marijuana is not a physically addictive drug. And even if he had a prescription for it, it would still be ILLEGAL to share it with his groomsmen, just like it is illegal to take drugs that are not prescribed to you (oxys, lortabs, valiums).

That is what I thought. Well yeah I don't think he should give it to his groomsmen. That could cause problems.

Is it still illegal? How does the law work in CO? Is it not in effect yet or is it only legal via prescription?

PaganDad · May 2013

Whoa, whoa! First and foremost, I live in a state with which the constitution has been amended to allow for not only medical use of Marijuana, but recreational use as well. And secondly, @scribe, to use the word "castigate" implies that I was seriously reprimanding people who consume alcohol. I, as a non drinker, have a problem with catering to users of Alcohol, at my own wedding. I do not, if you read my initial ramblings, condemn those who enjoy alcohol, unless they claim somehow that my use of marijuana is worse in some way than their own consumption (What I refer to as "alcohol hypocrisy"). Thirdly, the physiological effects of Marijuana withdrawal are so unnoticeable in most people that Marijuana is widely considered by the medical community to be not physically addictive. Mental addiction is a different issue that centers on the users inability to find other methods of managing mental health issues. To compare marijuana with any of the narcotics listed above or even alcohol is a huge leap scientifically, and fortunately it looks like the tides are changing in many states. Hopefully along with change, will come education that helps to dispel so much misinformation that is apparent in some of the above posts. I am not asking anyone to defend alcohol. I don't know why you feel inclined to make me defend my vices. My path is my own and I don't begrudge anyone else their path, unless they litter on mine.

As I said above, I recognize that not everyone shares my relationship with alcohol. I have nothing against drinkers. But I am talking about MY wedding, and the best way to manage etiquette and maintain my own standards.

And since it is so clear to you that I cannot go a single day without smoking pot, I must say, that you are wrong. I smoke when night terrors prevent me from sleeping, and when my exploding head syndrom shocks me out of slumber. I smoke when I realize that I have forgotten to eat for a couple days, because I have trained to and because my body no longer recognizes it's own rhythms. I smoke when I am so anxious about an exam that my physiological response shuts my breathing and my mind down. I smoke when I know I am going to sit in a huge crowd of false-flag waiving pseudo-patriots, who have never been to war, so that I can watch fireworks (PTSD triggers) with my daughter like "normal" people. I smoke when I know I will have to deal with the internal battle that my alcoholism provides me when I go to concerts or parties. I smoke when I know that the alternative is a cocktail of anti-depressants, anti psychotics, nerve blockers, sleeping pills, and heart medicines that ruin my emotional well being, and destroy my relationships with my loved ones. I smoke when homicidal rage, and suicidal depression overrun my thought processes. I smoke when I know that the people who count on me need someone who is stable and centered.
I smoke when I know that I was meant to live in a time when humans were humans and didn't exist to serve bureaucracies, and as wage slaves for corporate masters. And sometimes I don't smoke at all for weeks on end, because I simply have to man up to the tasks at hand, and handle my business without it. No withdrawals or wild emotional swings. Just coping with life on life's terms.

And guess what? Marijuana alleviates every single one of those negative aspects of my life, without a single negative side effect, other than the stigma of misinformation. This is all beside the point and beyond necessary, but because you felt offended about my relationship with alcohol, you felt the need to insult me and make inaccurate judgments about my life! Please give me the benefit of your own doubt. I would not be alive today without marijuana. If I have one bad habit, it is waking up at least once per day.

PaganDad · May 2013

Thanks Krizzo. That puts it in an even better perspective for me.

another KT · May 2013

I have numerous active alcoholics in my family and my husband is a recovering alcoholic. We had a lunch reception and only served beer, wine, and mimosas in an effort to limit the alcohol consumption and it worked.

crunchymamaof2 · May 2013

Let's not turn this into a "is weed okay" debate. In some states it is legal, some its' not. I wouldn't recommend the OP offering it up at his wedding but if he wants to smoke, that's his choice. Granted, publicizing this choice on a message boards paves the way for debates and arguments but I wish we could just skip over that.

It is not rude to have a dry wedding. I tend to roll my eyes at the "so and so is an alcoholic so there can't be any alcohol at my wedding!" (and yes, I'm in recovery myself for drugs, so been there, done that). Normally I'd say those in recovery can choose to abstain or not and alcohol is apart of our society, whether we like it or not. Part of recovery is learning to deal with these situations. I also HATE the argument that having a cash bar will lessen the change of people getting hammered. If someone likes alcohol *that* much a cash bar will not stop them. That said this is your wedding. It seems like a large number of guests prefer not to be around alcohol so a dry wedding may be the way to go. Some people find dry weddings boring and some people may leave right after dinner. But you are not breaking etiquette by having a dry wedding, not in the least. Having a cash bar would be very rude.

You can also offer a limited selection, like just beer and wine, or just a couple bottles of wine on each table, so those who like those drinks can enjoy, with there being tons of alcohol everywhere around you. It is YOUR choice to have no alcohol, limited alcohol, or a full open bar. Any of those choices are fine.

I congratulate you on your recovery and thank you for service. As I said I am also in recovery so I know how hard this road can be. Keep up the good work!

PaganDad · May 2013

Certainly the initial part of recovery involves avoidance. The nature of dependance is the reason why many would choose to avoid it altogether. I completely get that people can make their own choice. And at a certain point in one's recovery one might choose to allow themselves to make a choice. I feel O.K. about making my own decisions. But my father still doesn't trust himself, and by extension, I doubt his capacity to abstain as well. The "so and so" in this case is not an invite. It's me, the groom, and my father of course. I don't think rolling your eyes at that is a fair or necessarily experienced position to take, but all the same, as an alcoholic, I would have to make my own choices about whether to attend and whether to abstain from drinking if it were someone else's wedding. And I do agree with that point.

I didn't want to defend my position on Marijuana but I felt that sweeping claims and misinformed comments were grating on me. I can't help but remain a staunch proponent.

I am definitely going with the dry wedding. My perspective on the "pay for drinks at my wedding" thing is more clear, and I appreciate all the input from those who cared to address my concerns.

lyndausvi · May 2013

I think you are over-analyzing this. Have a dry wedding. You do not need to make excuses for wanting to have a dry wedding.

I do drink. Would I be disappointed at a dry wedding? Sure, I enjoy cocktails at social events. Would I expect a bar at a recovering alcoholics wedding? Nope, actually I would be surprised at a bar of a wedding of a recovering alcoholic.

PaganDad · May 2013

another KT.
"Only served BEER, WINE and MIMOSAS" ?
That seems like a lot of alcohol choices for someone trying to limit alcohol consumption.
Not to be rude, but I honestly am curious about the thought process. Alcoholics are alcoholics whether it is wine, beer, mimosas, liquor, or absinthe for that matter. When you say active alcoholic, do you mean that they were consuming alcohol at your wedding? In my opinion an alcoholic should not be drinking, and if they are, they definitely shouldn't go to weddings (not my wedding). It would be akin to inviting a known terrorist and spending the whole evening wondering when the bomb is gonna blow. I could never have a known alcoholic who still drinks, drink at my wedding. Even if it was my dad!
If your intent was to keep the alcoholics on the light stuff, that seems misguided. If your intent was to provide alcohol for responsible drinkers, while reducing the appeal of drinking that hard alcohol would have on any alcoholics, then I kind of see the point.

PaganDad · May 2013

That is my fear. Should I state on the invitation, "If you are going to be disappointed by the lack of alcohol, please do not attend."? I don't think that would be right. But if I have to deal with one person murmuring about the lack of alcohol or expressing disappointment in my wedding because they couldn't have a drink I will probably lose my cool (to put it mildly). The only reason I would provide a bar at my wedding is to appease these types of disappointments, and avoid conflict with someone coming to my wedding who really isn't greatly interested in the nuptials (some dates of guests and out of state family members). They will be there.

nycrose2013 · May 2013

I completely agree with Lynda. This is so simple; who would even expect alcohol at an alcoholics wedding? I doubt even the craziest person would complain to your face, and if they did you could simply say ' I am a recovering alocholic" and walk away, leaving them feeling like an utter fool.

Have a dry wedding, it will be fine

nycrose2013 · May 2013

Also, OP, I know you have issues with alcohol, but try to calm down about it a little. You seem like you are ready to punch someone if you even hear the word "beer' at your wedding. Focus on the joyous occasion, and don't go in with a mindset of me versus the guests. It will make the day a lot better for you and your new wife.

[Deleted User] · May 2013

I agree with others who stated to have a dry wedding. People who are coming are coming to support you and your FI and should respect your decisions. I'm sure it's not a secret that you've had a drinking problem. I had a co-worker who is a recovering alcoholic as is the man she married. They did their toasts with coffee as they are huge coffee drinkers & opted for a coffee bar instead of a liquor bar. The people who loved & supported them didn't care. To me, anyone that doesn't want to come because there is no booze, that's their problem to deal with. Do whatever will make your wedding day more enjoyable for you.

PaganDad · May 2013

It kinda seems like I set it up that way in my head when began learning about how rude it was to have a cash bar. And yes, I am feeling like I could punch someone if someone expresses disappointment about being at my wedding and not being drunk at the same time. All I keep reading about is guests being insulted by hosts regarding alcohol policies. I certainly don't want my guests to feel insulted, and by everyone's logic, it seems that it would be more insulting to have a dry wedding than a cash bar. Which seems insulting to me, hence my approach to dealing with the topic. I think I understand now, about not having guests pay for things, even though logically it seems kinder even still, to give them that option, than to remove it. But hey, we are so backwards about most things. Why should this be an exception?

Should I note that it is a dry wedding on the invitations?

PaganDad · May 2013

How do I avoid people attending out of duty (family members, or otherwise) who are going to be disappointed no matter how much they try and hide it. Everyone keeps saying that if our guests really care that they will come regardless. I don't want that though. I don't want people to come DESPITE the fact that there is no alcohol.

crunchymamaof2 · May 2013

I'm sorry , I didn't come off the way I intended. While I would typically roll my eyes a bit because many times it seems like some use that as an excuse, in your situation I think you have valid reasoning. Not having alcohol at your wedding because 1 or 2 guests are recovering (unless you want a dry wedding) vs. not having alcohol when YOU are the one in recovery is completely different.

I only suggested beer and wine, or wine on tables as an alterative if there would be tons of people up in arms about no bar. Wine up the table- when it's empty, it's empty. Something to satisfy those who enjoy a drink with dinner but not a full open bar that people are running too all night.

If someone is going to give you crap about not having alcohol that's ridiculous and not worth your time. People can deal with it for one night. But some people will leave early/after dinner. I still think you are within your right to have a dry wedding.

TheBaysideBride · May 2013

Hi - i think the big question is what does your fiance say? I like the idea of a dry wedding for your situation, and as long as she's down w/ it, do it. Dance, be merry and eliminate the stress of alcohol.

But, if she really wants champagne, try a limited bar, maybe even just a champagne bar.

Good luck and congrats on the many years of sobriety, it's impressive and encouraging.

krizzo17 · May 2013

There's no need to put it on invitations. I'm assuming most of your family knows your an alcoholic, so they likely don't expect any beer or wine at your wedding. To your fi's family (and everyone else) you can just spread it by word of mouth. If someone mentions how excited they are for an open bar, or to get totally trashed, then let them know. No need to get into all the details - I think between the economy, religious beliefs, and personal preference, there are plenty of reasons to host a dry wedding reception, and none of them are anyone else's business. So long as you don't lead anyone to believe this will be an alcohol-fueled party, you'll be fine.

PaganDad · May 2013

Scribe- where did I make a rash generalization, please quote.

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