My sincerest condolences...

GoodLuckBear14 · July 2013

...to all of the brides and grooms out there who want real advice planning their weddings. TK has proven that it really doesn't care about real advice (because real advice can make people uncomfortable) by banning Stage and Linger today - and if Linger's GBCK post on SB is any indication, you are losing a lot a valuable regs as a result.

When I joined TK years ago, I was stopped from making so many mistakes because of the regs that were here. I didn't always like what I was told, but what I was told was almost always the right thing to do. I had stuck around for so long to pay it forward and help those still in the planning stages. I left earlier this year because of the changes that are making TK a Weddingbee wanabe, and too many people (including a couple of mods) who took anything that wasn't puppies and rainbows as personal attacks on them.

So to the regs who have sent PMs (that I checked for the first time today) asking me to come back, I will miss you all but it just isn't going to happen. I only relogged into this account because I saw what happened to Stage and Linger. To those who are new here, I wish I could have gotten to know you and wish you good luck in your wedding planning. Here is some nutshell advice: Your guests comfort comes before everything else. Cut what only you will notice (like centerpieces) to pay for what the guests will notice (food, drink, how they are treated in general).

Ajuliana · July 2013

What the fuck happened that they got banned? When did this happen?

[Deleted User] · July 2013

Ajuliana said:

What the fuck happened that they got banned? When did this happen?

come join us plz.

http://tktreehouse.proboards.com

MaryGraceRich · July 2013

Huh?! They were banned?! I hope not. Stage def gave great advice. I have learned so much since joining!

arrippa · July 2013

There is going to be a slew of cash bars, dollar dances, tiered weddings now.

No thanks!

QueerFemme · July 2013

To all brides that have cash bars, dollar dances, "dance only" invitations, honeymoon registries, matching BM hair & shoes, and you don't pay for them, PPDs cuz their MAN just got deployed, and all of the other totally shitty fucking advice. WELCOME TO THEKNOT!!! They love you here.

MayDay513 · July 2013

YAY! Honeyfund and treating WP like wedding slaves.

HisGirlFriday13 · July 2013

Just remember that you don't speak for all of us. And some of us are perfectly capable of giving truthful, helpful advice without shaming, ridiculing, bullying and being condescending.

smalfrie19 · July 2013

Slytherin RN said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Just remember that you don't speak for all of us. And some of us are perfectly capable of giving truthful, helpful advice without shaming, ridiculing, bullying and being condescending.
Being honest and truthful doesn't necessarily mean you're being "shaming, ridiculing, bullying and condescending."

Edit for weird sentence fragment.

You are right. It doesnt but some users do.

astimmel · July 2013

WHAT???? Stage and Linger gave some of the most valuable, well-rounded, experienced and honest advice on this entire website!

HisGirlFriday13 · July 2013

Slytherin RN said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Just remember that you don't speak for all of us. And some of us are perfectly capable of giving truthful, helpful advice without shaming, ridiculing, bullying and being condescending.

Being honest and truthful doesn't necessarily mean you're being "shaming, ridiculing, bullying and condescending."

Edit for weird sentence fragment.

I didn't say ALL they did was bully, and I didn't say they EXCLUSIVELY were bullies. But on more than one occasion, BOTH of them crossed the line from "blunt, honest, but helpful" advice and were bullying. Linger especially liked to used .GIFs to be condescending.

Their behaviour, if replicated IRL, would be considered bullying. If it were among teenagers, it would be called cyber-bullying. There's a way to be brutally honest without being brutal.

Ajuliana · July 2013

All I hear is blah blah bullshit. What specifically prompted this ban?rOr was it some weird surprise banhammer? Damnit @ramonaflowers is this your doing? ?

QueerFemme · July 2013

smalfrie19 said:

Slytherin RN said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Just remember that you don't speak for all of us. And some of us are perfectly capable of giving truthful, helpful advice without shaming, ridiculing, bullying and being condescending.
Being honest and truthful doesn't necessarily mean you're being "shaming, ridiculing, bullying and condescending."

Edit for weird sentence fragment.
You are right. It doesnt but some users do.

and some users act like small children. Do they get banned? this is a site for people over 18, right?

arrippa · July 2013

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Slytherin RN said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Just remember that you don't speak for all of us. And some of us are perfectly capable of giving truthful, helpful advice without shaming, ridiculing, bullying and being condescending.
Being honest and truthful doesn't necessarily mean you're being "shaming, ridiculing, bullying and condescending."

Edit for weird sentence fragment.
I didn't say ALL they did was bully, and I didn't say they EXCLUSIVELY were bullies. But on more than one occasion, BOTH of them crossed the line from "blunt, honest, but helpful" advice and were bullying. Linger especially liked to used .GIFs to be condescending.

Their behaviour, if replicated IRL, would be considered bullying. If it were among teenagers, it would be called cyber-bullying. There's a way to be brutally honest without being brutal.

However, being brutally honest isn't against TOS. They never personally attacked anyone. Just because someone takes it as an attack, doesn't mean it is one.

efmcc67 · July 2013

Wait, Stage and Linger got banned??? WTF happened while I was out shopping??

QueerFemme · July 2013

coopergirl15 said:

Well, shit. This explains a lot. This place is going to hell in a handbasket.

The thread on snarky brides explains most of this BS

libby2483 · July 2013

efmcc67 said:

Wait, Stage and Linger got banned??? WTF happened while I was out shopping??

There's threads on SB and Knottie Tech Help that explain most of if. PM me if you want the link to the Proboards site where most of us are heading.

Edit: Nevermind, I see you're already there

erinlin25 · August 2013

what the what!? They may have been blunt, but they always said what needed to be said. When I first joined I thought things they said were a little harsh, but once you stick around and get to know them it all was good (and quite entertaining!) Some people took things way too personal on here. Stage and Linger will for sure be missed.

SBmini · August 2013

I've been a mod on a Top 100 forum for the past seven years and I've been through many a rebellion like this, including the creation of two new forums, neither of which lasted very long.I never like it when people were banned without explanation. I would always first issue a series of warnings including, but not limited to, a last warning before banning anyone. Unless of course the infraction was so uncalled for that no warnings were necessary, i.e. a troll.

That said, I would pause before any of you do something you will later regret. I cannot tell you how many people went out with a blaze of glory only to ask to be reinstated later. Abandoning a forum is not the way to fix it.

I do feel that this forum can lack some common decency sometimes. There is a mean way and a polite way to say anything, and some ladies have a tendency to skip the etiquette (which can be quite ironic on the etiquette subforum when someone is being called an idiot for lacking tact) and go straight for the jugular. This attitude scares away new members (I've seen it a million times on my 500,000+ member forum) and new members are the lifeline of a forum. Especially on a forum that is dedicated to such a short period of one's life. The Knot NEED these new members to replace ones who leave after they move on from thinking about weddings.

I support the mods cracking down on rude behavior. This place would be a lot more enjoyable if people were nicer to one another. And being nice doesn't mean lying or sugar coating, you can still tell someone something is a bad idea in a tactful way. If I were a mod here (which I am not) I would be doing it in a different way, through notifications on each forum and warnings before bans. But I do think you should take pause and hear the mods POV before burning a bridge you later want to rebuild.

bethsmiles · August 2013

@SBmini - People are upset because of the way the banning occurred which is not the way TK had promised the new system would work when they took away mods. Linger and Stage weren't given warnings and they repeatedly asked if their responses crossed a line and were told they did not. They had flags reviewed and removed by TK indicating that their posts were not breaking TK TOS. Additionally, Knot Jackie had repeatedly PM Linger and Stage for their advice so obviously she found it worthwhile. So the problem isn't that two obviously popular posters were banned but that they were banned because of the arbitrary decision of the people who took away the mods, can't bother to keep up with the boards even though that's their job, and refuse to have open communication with the member of this community. They have been asked all day in several threads on several different boards by various posters to explain their actions and no one has found their reasoning or POV adequate.

KeptInStitches · August 2013

They're even refusing to have closed communications - I PM'd both KJ and KP with questions on exactly what protocol for banning is, and they haven't gotten back to me. I know they've had a long day, but these should be very simple questions.

Dreamergirl8812 · August 2013

I was just reading Harry's AE post, which got deleted before I could respond. I got distracted when I saw this just to the right of her post saying she's leaving TK:

winelover123 · August 2013

@SBmini - during the last mass exodus, many regs did leave for good. Just an FYI there.

NYCMercedes · August 2013

SBmini said:

I've been a mod on a Top 100 forum for the past seven years and I've been through many a rebellion like this, including the creation of two new forums, neither of which lasted very long.I never like it when people were banned without explanation. I would always first issue a series of warnings including, but not limited to, a last warning before banning anyone. Unless of course the infraction was so uncalled for that no warnings were necessary, i.e. a troll.

That said, I would pause before any of you do something you will later regret. I cannot tell you how many people went out with a blaze of glory only to ask to be reinstated later. Abandoning a forum is not the way to fix it.

I do feel that this forum can lack some common decency sometimes. There is a mean way and a polite way to say anything, and some ladies have a tendency to skip the etiquette (which can be quite ironic on the etiquette subforum when someone is being called an idiot for lacking tact) and go straight for the jugular. This attitude scares away new members (I've seen it a million times on my 500,000+ member forum) and new members are the lifeline of a forum. Especially on a forum that is dedicated to such a short period of one's life. The Knot NEED these new members to replace ones who leave after they move on from thinking about weddings.

I support the mods cracking down on rude behavior. This place would be a lot more enjoyable if people were nicer to one another. And being nice doesn't mean lying or sugar coating, you can still tell someone something is a bad idea in a tactful way. If I were a mod here (which I am not) I would be doing it in a different way, through notifications on each forum and warnings before bans. But I do think you should take pause and hear the mods POV before burning a bridge you later want to rebuild.

Noobes get bent out of shape when told no. Then go BSC.

SBmini · August 2013

bethsmiles said:

@SBmini - People are upset because of the way the banning occurred which is not the way TK had promised the new system would work when they took away mods. Linger and Stage weren't given warnings and they repeatedly asked if their responses crossed a line and were told they did not. They had flags reviewed and removed by TK indicating that their posts were not breaking TK TOS. Additionally, Knot Jackie had repeatedly PM Linger and Stage for their advice so obviously she found it worthwhile. So the problem isn't that two obviously popular posters were banned but that they were banned because of the arbitrary decision of the people who took away the mods, can't bother to keep up with the boards even though that's their job, and refuse to have open communication with the member of this community. They have been asked all day in several threads on several different boards by various posters to explain their actions and no one has found their reasoning or POV adequate.

If you took the time to read my post, you would see that I disagree with banning people without warnings or explaination.

bethsmiles · August 2013

SBmini said:

bethsmiles said:

@SBmini - People are upset because of the way the banning occurred which is not the way TK had promised the new system would work when they took away mods. Linger and Stage weren't given warnings and they repeatedly asked if their responses crossed a line and were told they did not. They had flags reviewed and removed by TK indicating that their posts were not breaking TK TOS. Additionally, Knot Jackie had repeatedly PM Linger and Stage for their advice so obviously she found it worthwhile. So the problem isn't that two obviously popular posters were banned but that they were banned because of the arbitrary decision of the people who took away the mods, can't bother to keep up with the boards even though that's their job, and refuse to have open communication with the member of this community. They have been asked all day in several threads on several different boards by various posters to explain their actions and no one has found their reasoning or POV adequate.

If you took the time to read my post, you would see that I disagree with banning people without warnings or explaination.

I took the time to read your post, that's why I responded to it. I don't respond to posts that I don't read.

Quite frankly, from you post it was clear you didn't understand why people were upset and leaving the board. Also, I think it presumptuous of you to think that you know better than people about how upset they should be and what action they should take.

SBmini · August 2013

I took the time to read your post, that's why I responded to it. I don't respond to posts that I don't read.

Quite frankly, from you post it was clear you didn't understand why people were upset and leaving the board. Also, I think it presumptuous of you to think that you know better than people about how upset they should be and what action they should take.

Of course I understand why people are upset and I'm upset too. I think leadership is incredibly lacking on this forum. But the way to fix a place isn't to leave it.

vk2204 · August 2013

SBmini said:

I took the time to read your post, that's why I responded to it. I don't respond to posts that I don't read.

Quite frankly, from you post it was clear you didn't understand why people were upset and leaving the board. Also, I think it presumptuous of you to think that you know better than people about how upset they should be and what action they should take.
Of course I understand why people are upset and I'm upset too. I think leadership is incredibly lacking on this forum. But the way to fix a place isn't to leave it.

The ones who were trying to help fix it didn't have the choice, they were just booted for no reason.

manateehugger · August 2013

SBmini said:

I took the time to read your post, that's why I responded to it. I don't respond to posts that I don't read.

Quite frankly, from you post it was clear you didn't understand why people were upset and leaving the board. Also, I think it presumptuous of you to think that you know better than people about how upset they should be and what action they should take.
Of course I understand why people are upset and I'm upset too. I think leadership is incredibly lacking on this forum. But the way to fix a place isn't to leave it.

No. The way to fix it is for TK to get its head out of its ass, make some sensible TOS, and stick to it.

southernbelle0915 · August 2013

I don't know the whole story on either side, but from what I can gather... It seems like the goal of the Gods is to promote constructive criticism versus the sometimes negative (albeit clever/witty) posts that tend to offend. Should they have gone about it a different way? Probably. Did the regs give good advice? Yes. Could they have given it in a different way that's not so condescending? Usually. Do newbies need to grow thicker skin and not take things so personally? Definitely.

The way the Gods went about it may not have been ideal. I think there's a fine balance between getting what they want for TK in general, as a brand (a more positive, cohesive environment) and getting valuable regs on board with that with that without pissing everyone off and losing valuable input that gives TK the good reputation of solid advice. I don't really think this balance was reached, but it may be too soon to tell.

bethsmiles · August 2013

SBmini said:

I took the time to read your post, that's why I responded to it. I don't respond to posts that I don't read.

Quite frankly, from you post it was clear you didn't understand why people were upset and leaving the board. Also, I think it presumptuous of you to think that you know better than people about how upset they should be and what action they should take.

Of course I understand why people are upset and I'm upset too. I think leadership is incredibly lacking on this forum. But the way to fix a place isn't to leave it.

I think it's pretty clear they are done trying to fix it. There has been back and forth about issues for months now. Obviously, they are done with the site.

My sincerest condolences...

Re: My sincerest condolences...

Choose Another Board

Search Boards