Snarky Brides

Cyber bullying and being banned

Dreamergirl8812Dreamergirl8812 your closet member
1000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
1) I am getting seriously and genuinely pissed off every time I see someone calling Linger and Stage cyber bullies. Cyber bullying is a coordinated and systematic attack on someone, on the internet, that invades their real (offline) life. Cyber bullying is a huge issue and it kills kids. So to throw that term around like it's nothing is incredibly offensive.

If you get your panties in a wad and then your FI comes home and you make dinner and watch a movie, you are not being cyber bullied.


2) Banhammer question:

8. 'Til Death Do Us Part
While we hope we stay together forever, you agree that, under certain circumstances and without prior notice, The Knot may terminate your access to The Knot, including purging your member account and any material and information associated with your member account (including your user name, password, registry and profile). Cause for such termination shall include, but not be limited to, violation of the provisions set forth in section 5 of this Terms of Use agreement. You acknowledge and agree that all terminations for cause shall be made in sole discretion of The Knot and that The Knot shall not be liable to you or any other party for the termination of your access to our Area or the purging of any material."

@KnotPorscha and @KnotJackie, My question is: If our accounts and profiles are deleted (or purged), do you stop selling our information to 3rd parties? Do you purge our email addresses? Or does TK keep making money off of us?   ----> Link




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Re: Cyber bullying and being banned

  • bethsmilesbethsmiles Denver, CO member
    10000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited August 2013
    cap816 said:
    See the thing is, online IS real life for many people, including those behind their Knot screen names.  How can so many people say they've created meaningful relationships here and other places online, but not call intentionally affecting the feelings of others in a negative and hurtful way through their keystrokes as "real."  
    Ok then a better way to define this to you is online vs offline life. The fact is that I've never seen anything on here qualifies as cyber-bullying. Because if a woman comes on here and starts a thread about any number of rude things brides think are okay because they are getting married all they have to do is simply not come back to the thread this is NOT true of cyber-bullying where no matter if the person looks at it or not it's affecting their offline life.

    I hope that was an adequate explanation of the difference.


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  • Dreamergirl8812Dreamergirl8812 your closet member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    They were not cruel, and if you're "weaker" then that sounds like a personal problem.



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  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    cap816 said:
    cap816 said:
    See the thing is, online IS real life for many people, including those behind their Knot screen names.  How can so many people say they've created meaningful relationships here and other places online, but not call intentionally affecting the feelings of others in a negative and hurtful way through their keystrokes as "real."  
    Ok then a better way to define this to you is online vs offline life. The fact is that I've never seen anything on here qualifies as cyber-bullying. Because if a woman comes on here and starts a thread about any number of rude things brides think are okay because they are getting married all they have to do is simply not come back to the thread this is NOT true of cyber-bullying where no matter if the person looks at it or not it's affecting their offline life.

    I hope that was an adequate explanation of the difference.
    You are more than welcome to your opinion, but I think that bullying is bullying whether it happens online or off.  
    And according to Merriam Webster, a bully is "a : a blustering browbeating person; especially : one habitually cruel to others who are weaker."
    And in my opinion that is a perfect description of the typical behavior of those who have been banned.
    The internet is not for the weak of heart or mind.  
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  • @KnotPorscha and @KnotJackie, My question is: If our accounts and profiles are deleted (or purged), do you stop selling our information to 3rd parties? Do you purge our email addresses? Or does TK keep making money off of us?   ----> Link

    Excellent question.  Also, an excerpt from the linky above:

    From time to time, The Knot does share names, postal addresses, email addresses, and other contact and/or demographic information with other pre-screened organizations that have specific product and service offers we think may be of interest to you. The Knot also shares member information with partner retailers to allow your registries to be updated with purchase status. 

    Read more: Privacy Policy - Your Privacy RightsTheKnot.com - http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-tools-help-center/the-knot-about-us/articles/the-knot-privacy-policy.aspx#ixzz2ag0irtLf

    Interesting that I recently received mail addressed to Zazzles Cooper (my never-used kitten day AE) from a local children's hospital... 
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  • jss0302 said:
    Being honest =/= cruel
    It's not the advice that's the problem.  It's the delivery.
    Bullies call people hurtful names, which is against the TOS and which I have never seen any reg do (apart from Retread, who was rightfully banned).
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  • arrippaarrippa Sam Adams Craft Commonwealth member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    cap816 said:
    jss0302 said:
    Being honest =/= cruel
    It's not the advice that's the problem.  It's the delivery.
    I disagree; they were blunt but I have never seen them attack anyone. They were straight to the point and their advice was always right on. They never sugar coated anything, nor should they. Just because they said something that you don't want to hear doesn't make them mean and it isn't against TOS.
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  • cap816 said:
    cap816 said:
    jss0302 said:
    Being honest =/= cruel
    It's not the advice that's the problem.  It's the delivery.
    I disagree; they were blunt but I have never seen them attack anyone. They were straight to the point and their advice was always right on. They never sugar coated anything, nor should they. Just because they said something that you don't want to hear doesn't make them mean and it isn't against TOS.

    Yes, they were blunt, which is fine.  But they were, in my opinion, mean. And clearly there are many who agree with me by the "Love its" that my comments (and others taking this stance) have received.


    Offering advice on treating others well, administered in a very nasty way, is the definition of hypocrisy.

    And clearly, there are several who don't agree with you based on the love its other comments have received, the large amount of threads about why the bannings were unfair, and the number of people who have had their accounts removed and jumped over to proboards.
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  • cap816 said:
    jss0302 said:
    Being honest =/= cruel
    It's not the advice that's the problem.  It's the delivery.
    Damn, I can't "love it" more than  once on this post!
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  • PDKH said:

    I think everyone knows that there are people on both sides here. I think you'd also be surprised to learn how many of those upset aren't really personal fans of some regs here, but can at least appreciate them.

    And you're making NORMATIVE arguments here. Go look at the world and tell me how well normative arguments work. There are ignore options. There are options to call people out. TK is no different than anywhere else in life.

    There are and there aren't. I've witnessed on more than one occasion, someone "calling out" a reg poster who was hot under the collar with advice. That other poster was then shot down, sometimes by many posters. I know of 2 off the top of my head who haven't been back due to being attacked.
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  • PDKH said:

    I think everyone knows that there are people on both sides here. I think you'd also be surprised to learn how many of those upset aren't really personal fans of some regs here, but can at least appreciate them.

    And you're making NORMATIVE arguments here. Go look at the world and tell me how well normative arguments work. There are ignore options. There are options to call people out. TK is no different than anywhere else in life.

    There are and there aren't. I've witnessed on more than one occasion, someone "calling out" a reg poster who was hot under the collar with advice. That other poster was then shot down, sometimes by many posters. I know of 2 off the top of my head who haven't been back due to being attacked.


    Examples please? And is there a reason they couldn't hit "Ignore"?

     

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    [Deleted User]PrettyGirlLost
  • PDKH said:
    PDKH said:

    I think everyone knows that there are people on both sides here. I think you'd also be surprised to learn how many of those upset aren't really personal fans of some regs here, but can at least appreciate them.

    And you're making NORMATIVE arguments here. Go look at the world and tell me how well normative arguments work. There are ignore options. There are options to call people out. TK is no different than anywhere else in life.

    There are and there aren't. I've witnessed on more than one occasion, someone "calling out" a reg poster who was hot under the collar with advice. That other poster was then shot down, sometimes by many posters. I know of 2 off the top of my head who haven't been back due to being attacked.


    Examples please? And is there a reason they couldn't hit "Ignore"?

    Sorry, I really don't have the time today to go back in old posts to search for examples. There was one gal who came on here asking for advice about her overbearing mother, and I recall something about some kind of flower wreath in her hair. There was another gal more recently who did fly off the handle a little after being attacked. I recall many, many swears. I'm sorry, there's an option that a user can click to ignore certain posters? I didn't know that existed.
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  • Swears? Really? I'm sorry; I'm trying to have a meaningful discussion here. But you're upset about swearing?!

    And if you can't remember these discussions, or if they ever came back, it is only your word. People need to not post on a public forum if they don't want advice they don't want to hear. And yes, you can ignore specific posters. You know - handle it in an adult fashion?

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  • PDKH said:

    Swears? Really? I'm sorry; I'm trying to have a meaningful discussion here. But you're upset about swearing?!

    And if you can't remember these discussions, or if they ever came back, it is only your word. People need to not post on a public forum if they don't want advice they don't want to hear. And yes, you can ignore specific posters. You know - handle it in an adult fashion?

    Uh no, where did you get that I'm upset with swearing? I've sworn on here before as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I will try to track down names for you.
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  • AllieBear725AllieBear725 member
    500 Comments 250 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited August 2013
    Not only adult fashion ignore, but I think there's an option to ignore a poster somewhere. 

    ETA: There is, click on user you want to ignore, and top right there's an "ignore" box to click. 
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  • msuprincess04msuprincess04 member
    Knottie Warrior 500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Answer
    edited August 2013
    I think people took things too personally. Calling an idea stupid, selfish, and rude, would get people worked up. At no point does that mean that the person is stupid, selfish or rude, but it does mean that that action could be that way. 

    I have seen many situations where someone accuses someone of being a bad friend, then gets horribly offended when the response is "no, you are being a bad friend." Wait, didn't you just call someone else that? I suppose that would be a personal attack, but it's used when someone starts by calling someone else names. It's hard to get your own perceptions thrown back at you. 

    But, isn't that the whole point of this? Advice and another point of view?

    Edit: I'm adding this, because I probably should have said it in the first place. The people who post on Etiquette starting by "I know this isn't etiquette, but I'm doing it anyway. How do I make it less bad?" Then get upset when the posters respond with "it's rude don't do it." What answer did you expect to get? There aren't exceptions, no matter how special you think your situation is. And that includes PPD, honorary bridesmaids, not inviting SOs, and honeymoon registries. 
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  • PDKH said:

    Swears? Really? I'm sorry; I'm trying to have a meaningful discussion here. But you're upset about swearing?!

    And if you can't remember these discussions, or if they ever came back, it is only your word. People need to not post on a public forum if they don't want advice they don't want to hear. And yes, you can ignore specific posters. You know - handle it in an adult fashion?

    Uh no, where did you get that I'm upset with swearing? I've sworn on here before as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I will try to track down names for you.
    KatC82 was the recent one, and I'm sorry, but I haven't a clue what the name of the flower wreath girl was. I had PMed her because I had felt badly for her, but she never messaged me back. If you choose not to believe me, and think I'm making it up, that's alright. And yes, I know about handling things in an adult fashion, since I'm an adult.
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  • manateehuggermanateehugger member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited August 2013

    Adult fashion isn't lashing out at those who genuinely tried to help you. In no way do I consider that an adult reaction.

    And yeah, I just read that girl's post. She got good advice and then called someone's opinion crap. Forgive me if I can't muster a lot of sympathy for her.

    ETA: Oh and that thread got better. People gave her solid advice, and she responded by calling everyone douches, and saying "Fuck you and fuck this site." That's the example you chose to use?

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  • PDKH said:

    Adult fashion isn't lashing out at those who genuinely tried to help you. In no way do I consider that an adult reaction.

    And yeah, I just read that girl's post. She got good advice and then called someone's opinion crap. Forgive me if I can't muster a lot of sympathy for her.

    That's the one whom I said flew off the handle in a post above, just a few minutes ago. Look, if you and I don't agree, it really isn't a big deal. I'm sure that you have better things to occupy your time with today, and so do I. I have my last couple hours at work, then it's my wedding weekend. So yeah, much more important and fun things to occupy my time with! Have a good long weekend (if it's a long weekend in the US)!
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  • Have a good weekend, too. I just wish you could appreciate people when they hand you solid advice and not cheer when they are gone.

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  • PDKH said:

    Have a good weekend, too. I just wish you could appreciate people when they hand you solid advice and not cheer when they are gone.

    Thank-you! And, just for the record, I'm not cheering. I do think they gave some good advice, and because of that, it's unfortunate that they were banned. The delivery of some of their advice at times was very brash, sometimes bordering on harsh, and for that reason, I'm not surprised that they were banned. That was really my only point, as both posters did help me out and give solid advice when I asked for it.
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  • edited August 2013
    I'm on both sides here. Yes - the delivery of good advice wasn't always great. But it's not fair to throw a blanket on it like it was ALWAYS mean and NEVER nice. 

    Here's the bottom line, take an excited bride full of "cute" ideas without any knowledge of proper etiquette and put her on a board with someone who understands that etiquette and proper hosting should trump cutesy, creative ideas every single time.... and you have a recipe for emotionally strung out threads that end up in conflict.

    Neither side handles themselves perfectly all the time and it's kind of useless to point fingers at whose "fault" it is. I think the takeaway here is what's important. My takeaway is that TK Gods think that delivery trumps good advice. Of course they want good advice on here to keep people coming back to the boards, but they've made it very clear that they think delivery is more important. I don't necessarily agree with this. Personally, I'd rather avoid an embarrassing faux pas using harshly delivered advice and lick my wounds later, but my opinion on whether or not that's "right" doesn't matter.

    ETA: spelling
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  • @knotporscha @knotjackie - can you please review the flag? 

    It's clear that someone doesn't understand that flagging posts that don't violate the TOS can get the flagger banned.....
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  • I'm on both sides here. Yes - the delivery of good advice wasn't always great. But it's not fair to throw a blanket on it like it was ALWAYS mean and NEVER nice. 


    Here's the bottom line, take an excited bride full of "cute" ideas without any knowledge of proper etiquette and put her on a board with someone who understands that etiquette and proper hosting should trump cutesy, creative ideas every single time.... and you have a recipe for emotionally strung out threads that end up in conflict.

    Neither side handles themselves perfectly all the time and it's kind of useless to point fingers at whose "fault" it is. I think the takeaway here is what's important. My takeaway is that TK Gods think that delivery trumps good advice. Of course they want good advice on here to keep people coming back to the boards, but they've made it very clear that they think delivery is more important. I don't necessarily agree with this. Personally, I'd rather avoid an embarrassing faux pas using harshly delivered advice and lick my wounds later, but my opinion on whether or not that's "right" doesn't matter.

    ETA: spelling
    Why was this post flagged? Seriously, the flag option is by far one of the worst ideas TK has come up with. @knotjackie @knotporscha people are abusing flags.

    Unless legitimate TOS violations are happening people should not use flags and not be banned.

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    [Deleted User]bellaluna290AlexisA01
  • I've been around for a while. I too was never a huge fan of SOME of their deliveries, but I never saw them personally attacked anyone. EVER.

    They were occasionally crude, always honest, sometimes bluntly, and sometimes were aggressive when an OP didn't seem to care about the faux pas they were about to commit.

    Were they wrong? No! They never violated any TOS. I even had to take a break one time because my feels got hurt by one of them. BUT, if you're a sensitive person, you need to build a thicker skin. You won't be handled with kid gloves the rest of your life, so you might as well learn how to deal with it now.
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  • @button6004 - the gods will remove the flags and likely ban the flagger. All s/he's doing is creating a ton of work for the gods. They don't take kindly to that.
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    Champagne Supernovabutton6004Miss Esajlm9113
  • Why in the world are the posts here flagged??
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  • Why in the world are the posts here flagged??
    maybe someone's trying to make more work for the kgs. 
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