favour etiquette

GlassButton · August 2013

Maggie0829 said:
@GlassButton actually 1900 people attended the ceremony.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-28/royal-wedding-crowds-gather-in-london-for-pageantry-good-view-of-the-kiss.html

But even so, they are royal. They can pretty much do whatever they want. The typical eitquette rules for a wedding don't really apply to them. So to compare their wedding to a "commoners" is a bit far-fetched.

Thank you for clearing this up. I had already seen that 1,900 had been invited. But once again, thanks for the correction.

I understand that they can do as they wish, let's be honest anyone can do as they wish when it comes to their wedding. If they couldn't then there wouldn't be wedding horror stories. I still do stand by that I do think that what they do most of the time is correct by their etiquette books.

I do not agree with it (I personally would be offended to know you didn't invite me to the reception, regardless of budget. I'd rather you not invite me at all).

harper0813 · August 2013

If it offends you, maybe it's best not to encourage it or okay it.

Maggie0829 · August 2013

If it offends you, maybe it's best not to encourage it or okay it.

This. I am highly confused now.

GlassButton · August 2013

zobird said:
If it offends you, maybe it's best not to encourage it or okay it.

If it's fine by another's etiquette book then I don't feel like I'm high enough to change them. Excuse me for being realistic and understanding that there different sets of rules in different countries and cultures.

Viczaesar · August 2013

mercimarie said:

From the other side of the argument, we are using our favours as place settings (as FI's gran is making jam) and the tags are the name card. We have only done this for our dinner guests (50), and our 20 evening guests will just have to cry into their unlimited glasses of wine and beer and evening buffet because they didn't get a 4oz jar of jam. I'm pretty sure they'll get over it.

Wow, way to be incredibly rude and a horrible host.

NYCBruin · August 2013

GlassButton said:

If it offends you, maybe it's best not to encourage it or okay it.
If it's fine by another's etiquette book then I don't feel like I'm high enough to change them. Excuse me for being realistic and understanding that there different sets of rules in different countries and cultures.

So if I write an "etiquette" book and do all the rude things that in my book I claim aren't rude, none of my guests will be offended, right?

mercimarie · August 2013

@KeptInStitches, sorry I missed your question. To the weddings I've been to, favours have been placed alongside the table settings at dinner and frankly I was just following suit. I've never picked one up at the end of the night. Is this wrong? I have time to change it if it's a deal breaker.

KeptInStitches · August 2013

I would change it, especially on something like a jar of jam that most people aren't likely to pick up right away at dinner.

vk2204 · August 2013

GlassButton said:

If it offends you, maybe it's best not to encourage it or okay it.
If it's fine by another's etiquette book then I don't feel like I'm high enough to change them. Excuse me for being realistic and understanding that there different sets of rules in different countries and cultures.

Hey, I am going to host a party. But @glassbutton you cannot come over until 9pm after all of my A list guests have finished eating their dinner and dessert. I don't like you enough to feed you, but I think you're a fun drunk so that is why you are still invited. How would that make you feel? Pretty shitty?

crunchymamaof2 · August 2013

@NYCBruin @liatris2010 @zoberg

you rock!

I'm really tired of all the Royal comparisons. They're not infallible. None of us, unless we were there, will actually know if what they did was a tiered reception or not. If it was, then they were wrong. I know in England they commonly have the ceremony and breakfast, then a dinner party later on. From what I understood from posters on here, they are two separate events. That's okay. Splitting up one event is not okay, I don't care where you live.

etiquette = treated everyone with equal respect & dignity

traditions & customs =/= etiquette.

I just don't understand why people wouldn't want to treat their guests (supposedly their nearest and dearest) kindly and equally. Who cares if that's not the norm where you are? If everyone in your area jumped off a bridge would you?

(some should)

TiaTea · August 2013

Somebody said ( or maybe more than one person? ) that

tradition =/= etiquette

Can we try to define "etiquette" first?

According to Oxford dictionary, etiquette is:
"the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group"
Obviously, it's not universal and is different in different groups.

I believe that , to say that etiquette in other countries is " bad etiquette", because it's not how it's done in your country, or social group, is an example of really bad manners.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, etiquette is:
"the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life"
Someone gave the British royals as an example. And yes, the royals have for centuries been the authority of etiquette. Generally , even today what we adhere to, is what used to be done by the royals.

Before discussing good etiquette, can we even agree on what IS etiquette? And maybe do some research what are good manners and what are bad manners around the world?

NYCBruin · August 2013

TiaTea said:

Somebody said ( or maybe more than one person? ) that
tradition =/= etiquette

Can we try to define "etiquette" first?

According to Oxford dictionary, etiquette is:
"the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group"
Obviously, it's not universal and is different in different groups.

I believe that , to say that etiquette in other countries is " bad etiquette", because it's not how it's done in your country, or social group, is an example of really bad manners.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, etiquette is:
"the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life"
Someone gave the British royals as an example. And yes, the royals have for centuries been the authority of etiquette. Generally , even today what we adhere to, is what used to be done by the royals.

Before discussing good etiquette, can we even agree on what IS etiquette? And maybe do some research what are good manners and what are bad manners around the world?

Some of etiquette is a prescribed code of what is and is not acceptable behavior in certain societies. This can vary greatly by country or region. Different tipping practices is a good example of this.

Then there's the etiquette of hosting, which basically comes down to being kind and gracious to your guests. That's pretty universal.

And the royals have never been an example of proper hosting or etiquette. Do you require guests to curtsey to you before they enter your home?

PrettyGirlLost · August 2013

TiaTea said:

Somebody said ( or maybe more than one person? ) that
tradition =/= etiquette

Can we try to define "etiquette" first?

According to Oxford dictionary, etiquette is:
"the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group"
Obviously, it's not universal and is different in different groups.

I believe that , to say that etiquette in other countries is " bad etiquette", because it's not how it's done in your country, or social group, is an example of really bad manners.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, etiquette is:
"the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life"
Someone gave the British royals as an example. And yes, the royals have for centuries been the authority of etiquette. Generally , even today what we adhere to, is what used to be done by the royals.

Before discussing good etiquette, can we even agree on what IS etiquette? And maybe do some research what are good manners and what are bad manners around the world?

Look at the majority of the answers to this thread and others. If the majority is in agreement on something, then I think there is pretty good agreement on what etiquette is.

Also, let's use some common sense. To posters on this board, ask yourself "If I did X Y Z could/would that offend/upset/hurt any of my guests? If the roles were reversed, and I was a guest at a wedding and X Y Z was done to me, how would I feel?"

naomiberard · August 2013

Ok, obviously the traditions where I am from are different. It is very common to have tiered weddings around here, and it is not rude. I have often been invited as a dance guest, and I am actually honoured to still be invited to these weddings. I am not American, I am Canadian, so that could be why the etiquette is different. I was only asking opinions on favour etiquette, not on a tiered wedding. I appreciate the comments I received on the favours, but I am sorry to those who think I'm being rude to my dance guests.

southernbelle0915 · August 2013

TiaTea said:

Somebody said ( or maybe more than one person? ) that
tradition =/= etiquette

Can we try to define "etiquette" first?

According to Oxford dictionary, etiquette is:
"the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group"
Obviously, it's not universal and is different in different groups.

I believe that , to say that etiquette in other countries is " bad etiquette", because it's not how it's done in your country, or social group, is an example of really bad manners.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, etiquette is:
"the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life"
Someone gave the British royals as an example. And yes, the royals have for centuries been the authority of etiquette. Generally , even today what we adhere to, is what used to be done by the royals.

Before discussing good etiquette, can we even agree on what IS etiquette? And maybe do some research what are good manners and what are bad manners around the world?

This isn't about cultural sensitivity. This is about treating your guests equally and hosting them properly. Simple as that. Some common practices lend themselves to bad etiquette. Can I just draw an obvious connection here? All of the rudeness comes from money saving, or money grubbing traditions/practices. Then people using their culture/region/family/whatever as an excuse for the rude behavior. Think about it:

Rude thing / Money saving or Money grubbing?

Cash bar / Money saving

Jack&Jill / money grubbing

Honeymoon jar / money grubbing

Tiered reception / money saving

dollar dance / money grubbing

selling centerpieces / money grubbing

unhosted gap / money saving

You get the idea. "Culture" "region" "family tradition" or whatever else you want to call it is a red herring for working your wedding to your financial benefit. It's not good etiquette and it never will be. Host your guests properly. It's not hard.

cheapbrideincentpa · August 2013

@KatWAG @vk2204 Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the USA's etiquette rules applied everywhere.

Most people in the US think they are the center of the world, and everyone else is just like them and follow the same rules.. follow your traditions, it is YOUR wedding day after all.. I am in the USA and will be doing a dollar dance (my heritage) and also not allowing unmarried/unengaged guests to bring a date. Our circle of friends are fine with both.

Chipmunk415 · August 2013

So quick history nut weighing into Royal Wedding mentions of "smaller" ceremony than reception (since it seems to be a "fun" issue)...

Westminster can hold 2,000 for coronations, though some sovereigns have had tierd seating to increase seating space to 8,200.

HOWEVER, the wedding took place in front of the altar before the Shrine of St. Edward the Confessor. The seating area was limited to the nave and the quire. (Smart move considering how many people are buried in that abbey, both off the nave and quire and UNDER THE FLOOR. Who the heck wants to be seated next to a sarcophagus and effigy for a wedding they can't even see due to the walling at the quire and altar?! Also, how awkward is it to be seated, get a little antsy, and look down to see you're sitting on Charles Dickens' grave if you got stuck in the Poet's Corner?)

Westminster is big, yes. But specific sections are waay smaller, and they nearly filled the place to capacity! We're not talking about a church that can undergo expansions either- it's a working Abbey, but the present building was built in 1245! And it being the Royal Family, I'm sure they showed everyone at the Queen's reception and the evening reception a good time, regardless of whether that person was invited to attend the ceremony.

With the OP's issue, I gotta say I'd be seriously offended if I took my dinner time to get dolled up, show up to the ceremony/reception, and found I wasn't good enough to get a meal. Sorry, but a jar of jam will not make up for the insult.

NYCBruin · August 2013

southernbelle0915 said:

TiaTea said:

Somebody said ( or maybe more than one person? ) that
tradition =/= etiquette

Can we try to define "etiquette" first?

According to Oxford dictionary, etiquette is:
"the customary code of polite behaviour in society or among members of a particular profession or group"
Obviously, it's not universal and is different in different groups.

I believe that , to say that etiquette in other countries is " bad etiquette", because it's not how it's done in your country, or social group, is an example of really bad manners.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary, etiquette is:
"the conduct or procedure required by good breeding or prescribed by authority to be observed in social or official life"
Someone gave the British royals as an example. And yes, the royals have for centuries been the authority of etiquette. Generally , even today what we adhere to, is what used to be done by the royals.

Before discussing good etiquette, can we even agree on what IS etiquette? And maybe do some research what are good manners and what are bad manners around the world?

This isn't about cultural sensitivity. This is about treating your guests equally and hosting them properly. Simple as that. Some common practices lend themselves to bad etiquette. Can I just draw an obvious connection here? All of the rudeness comes from money saving, or money grubbing traditions/practices. Then people using their culture/region/family/whatever as an excuse for the rude behavior. Think about it:

Rude thing / Money saving or Money grubbing?
Cash bar / Money saving
Jack&Jill / money grubbing
Honeymoon jar / money grubbing
Tiered reception / money saving
dollar dance / money grubbing
selling centerpieces / money grubbing
unhosted gap / money saving

You get the idea. "Culture" "region" "family tradition" or whatever else you want to call it is a red herring for working your wedding to your financial benefit. It's not good etiquette and it never will be. Host your guests properly. It's not hard.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. It really all comes down to valuing money more than being a gracious host.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2013

cheapbrideincentpa said:

@KatWAG @vk2204 Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the USA's etiquette rules applied everywhere.

Most people in the US think they are the center of the world, and everyone else is just like them and follow the same rules.. follow your traditions, it is YOUR wedding day after all.. I am in the USA and will be doing a dollar dance (my heritage) and also not allowing unmarried/unengaged guests to bring a date. Our circle of friends are fine with both.

Cheapbride, please don't give bad etiquette advice on the Etiquette board. This isn't WB, at least not yet!

YOUR wedding day ceases to be YOUR day exclusively once you involve and invite other people. And the point of this board and etiquette in general is to ensure the other people present for YOUR wedding, those that are supposed to be your nearest and dearest family and friends, are hosted properly and treated well.

I am willing to bet that a few of the guests in your social circle are not fine with you excluded their SO's, people they love, for an event that is supposed to celebrate your love for your FI and your union. I just bet they are being polite and not saying anything to you.

And for anyone lurking in this thread, it's fine to not give truly single guests a Plus One, but its considered rude here to exclude the SO's of your other guests.

Simply Fated · August 2013

Just think of all the traditional things you don't do. Why is it that you're insisting on doing the money saving/grubbing traditions? With all the beautiful and sentimental possible trafitions that every culture and country has, why are you clinging to the ones that revolve around saving/making money?

Jessa617 · August 2013

Who was using the favors as placecards? If you are having a tiered reception, are the "dancing" guests not allowed to sit at all for the remainder of the reception? Do they have to stand or dance the entire time? I would think that even in Canada or England it is proper to offer ALL guests a seat at least. If this is the case, those guests should receive a favor too.

As PP mentioned, favors are taken with them at the end of the night when the reception is over. If your dancing guests see half of the guests leaving with a gift, they most certainly will be offended.

To both OP and the Merci- Please provide favors for ALL of your guests. If it's out of your budget, skip the favors all together.

KatWAG · August 2013

cheapbrideincentpa said:

@KatWAG @vk2204 Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the USA's etiquette rules applied everywhere.

Most people in the US think they are the center of the world, and everyone else is just like them and follow the same rules.. follow your traditions, it is YOUR wedding day after all.. I am in the USA and will be doing a dollar dance (my heritage) and also not allowing unmarried/unengaged guests to bring a date. Our circle of friends are fine with both.

I just.. can't. I dont have the energy to explain why this is so wrong.

RebeccaB88 · August 2013

It's amazing to me the number of people in this world who truly can't tell when they are being directly insulted.

And I don't care if you're the Queen of England or not, if you invite me as a 'dancing guest' only, our friendship is over. Period. I have no problem saying the Royal Family did not follow proper etiquette. They didn't. Oh well.

Dreamergirl8812 · August 2013

cheapbrideincentpa said:

@KatWAG @vk2204 Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the USA's etiquette rules applied everywhere.

Most people in the US think they are the center of the world, and everyone else is just like them and follow the same rules.. follow your traditions, it is YOUR wedding day after all.. I am in the USA and will be doing a dollar dance (my heritage) and also not allowing unmarried/unengaged guests to bring a date. Our circle of friends are fine with both.

This is what you are not understanding: Etiquette is not the same as tradition or heritage. It's about showing your guests respect.

Example: Traditional Zorastrianism (sp?) demands the wife throws herself in her husband's grave if he dies before her. If someone pushes her in a gaping hole of dead man in the name of tradition, I would call them out and you, apparently, would call me ethnocentric.

Your friends are embarrassed for you.

ETA: Okay I'm a little dizzy with hunger so that example may have been a little out there (though still true).

White dress: tradition
Father walking bride down the aisle: tradition
Bridal shower: tradition
Tiering your guests: bad etiquette

LondonLisa · August 2013

I am English and I still find it incredibly crass to host a tiered event. It is considered very tacky and low class to throw a tiered reception ANYWHERE. Please don't think that all English weddings are like this! It is like the honeymoon registry in North America (rude people beget ruder people and feed off each other for horrible advice). Host everyone properly.

cmclaire · August 2013

I'm a Brit too, and not the biggest fan of tiered events at all. I

've been to a couple where it was fine because the split was small, private ceremony, then larger reception for more guests (with meal, drinks and dancing) and I understood the family dynamics/logistics involved - one was a university friend who married in the chapel of her grandparents' castle which only seated 20!

I personally dislike 'evening' invites though - reception only I can understand, but no meal just dancing (in a region where cash bars reign supreme)? No thank you.

VitChick · August 2013

I say don't give them the jam, make it available only to those who are coming to the dinner and have it at each place setting. If you want to make a set up of a jam or other favor table for those dancing guests, I think that would be fine. Have a beautiful wedding.

crunchymamaof2 · August 2013

VitChick said:

I say don't give them the jam, make it available only to those who are coming to the dinner and have it at each place setting. If you want to make a set up of a jam or other favor table for those dancing guests, I think that would be fine. Have a beautiful wedding.

You make no sense. First you tell her not to give the dancing guests a favor, then you tell her to set up a table of favors for those same guests. She shouldn't do either of these things because she shouldn't be having a tiered reception. Guests should be invited to the entire wedding and, if offering favors, all people and couples should receive one. It's not that hard.

SP29 · August 2013

naomiberard said:

Ok, obviously the traditions where I am from are different. It is very common to have tiered weddings around here, and it is not rude. I have often been invited as a dance guest, and I am actually honoured to still be invited to these weddings. I am not American, I am Canadian, so that could be why the etiquette is different.

Sorry, nope.

I am Canadian, and have been invited to weddings in 3 different provinces (ON, AB, BC) and I have never been invited to a wedding as dance guest (yes, I've heard of it done- once). I would be extremely offended to be invited as such, as the host is telling me that I'm good enough to dance with (and get dressed up, bring a gift) but not good enough to eat dinner with... or for that matter, special enough to attend the ceremony- which is the whole point of a wedding!

My FMIL actually suggested it to my FH and I for some of her extended family. We told her we had a small budget and weren't inviting extended family (parents' cousins, great aunts/uncles, etc), but as FMIL's family is Greek and usually have big weddings, that's what she suggested as a compromise- invite them to the dance only- NOPE. I think tiered receptions are worse than a gap, worse than a cash bar, worse than a HM registry.... pretty much you name it. There are some etiquette faux pas that until this board and hearing the reasoning behind it (treat your guests like you would in your home- which totally makes sense) I thought were "OK".... but being invited to the dance only was never one of them.

Sorry if that came out a bit harsh, but that's the one thing I will stand on my soap box about. Whatever you decide to do with your wedding, even if you do break some etiquette (which I'm not recommending you should), treat your guests equally.

Cynthiajt1 · September 2013

You only have to give them favors if the extra 100 people are bringing you a gift that is equal or greater to the cost associated with having the last tier included in your reception. Just kidding.

Tiered receptions are rude. Find a way to include the other 100 guests in all of your wedding and reception, or don't invite them. Are they good enough to bring you presents, but not good enough for you to host them at your reception? And if you are giving some guests favors, you need favors for all guests.

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