I don't need your help anymore, so please do not respond.

ShellLillian · September 2013

Once again, the question at hand has been solved so your rude responses are pointless (not that they were relevant to start)

WonderRed · September 2013

If you want to do it 100% your way, you need to plan on paying for it yourself. If your parents are paying they get a say in it. Someone asked about vegetarian receptions on the etiquette board this morning so you might go look at that. The general consensus was that there are lots of vegetarian options that are still filling and satisfying. If you're determined to go one step further and do all vegan I'd advise working with a very high quality caterer so that your guests are satisfied.

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

I got engaged yesterday, and since we want to get married in May and want to keep it from getting too out of hand in the money department (my parents are helping pay) we are starting to plan right away. CONGRATS!!!!

We are definitely an offbeat couple, and while we still want some traditional elements in our wedding (I'll definitely be wearing a white dress, for example) we know it's not going to be a traditional wedding by any stretch of the imagination.

While my parents are incredibly supportive, I don't know just how traditional they are expecting this to be, but I am worried about dealing with a lot of people not liking certain elements of the wedding. How do you guys deal with stuff like that, especially when someone else is paying for the majority of it? If you have accepted someone's offer to pay for your wedding, they get a say in it. If you don't accept money and you pay for it yourself, you can do whatever you want. Keep that in mind as you plan.

We are both vegan, so we want to have an entirely vegan wedding, however aside from my brother nobody else in both of our families or circles of friends is even vegetarian, and my mom has already expressed some negative feelings towards the idea of not having a few meat options. Both of us are very strongly against it, even if we aren't paying for it. Unfortunately, if you're not paying for it this isn't your call. If you feel this strongly about it, pay for it yourself.

That's going to be the biggest "offbeat" aspect of it, but I'm sure there will be more to come and I'll need some more help and advice.

Here's what I'd do. Talk with your FI about what means the most to you. Sounds like one of the things you feel strongly about is a vegan menu. Pay for the food yourselves. If your parents aren't paying, they don't get a say. If they are, then unfortunately, they get a say in the decision.

You can work this out with them by having a chat about budget and finances. Let them know that you'd love to accept their offer to help pay for stuff, but that you feel strongly about the food and would therefore like to pay for that portion yourselves.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your reception (where food is served) is considered the event where you "receive" or thank guests for attending your ceremony. For that reason, the reception is supposed to be all about your guests. It's fine to throw in personal elements, but if you choose a menu that no one wants to eat, your guests will be hungry and you will have wasted your money. No one wins. Just something to keep in mind.

ShellLillian · September 2013

ShellLillian · September 2013

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

For us, it's not "going further," vegetarian is nearly as ethically horrible as eating meat, and it's not something we'll be budging on, and we ARE prepared to pay for it (I should have mentioned that in the original post), if it comes to that but I'm looking for advice on how to avoid a fight, not whether or not we should pay for it. My parents feel very strongly about paying for everything.

ShellLillian said:

You wouldn't shoot people at your wedding just to please the serial killer in the crowd, we aren't serving something that is equal to that in our eyes just to make a grumpy aunt or uncle happy.

To the bolded - I think we just went from 0 to 60 fast enough to not look for crossing squirrels. What on earth?!

You asked about "avoiding a fight", yes? Well, I suggest you start out by not snapping at people when they try to have a conversation with you about it. Sheesh! You're asking/demanding that your parents to see it your way, so it's only right that you attempt to see it their way (especially if they're paying).

The question here is: Are you and your FI willing to compromise on this or not? If you aren't (sounds like you aren't judging by your extremely strong reaction), then tell your parents that you and your FI want to pay for the food because you are not willing to compromise on this. Plain and simple. It'll take 2 seconds and since you're not willing to compromise but you ARE willing to pay for it, there's nothing to fight about. Done and done.

ETA: To your comment about not making "a grumpy aunt or uncle happy": you're not trying to please a "grumpy aunt or uncle"... you're trying graciously accept a gift that your generous mother and father have offered in order to host your event. You're also trying to please anyone at your reception (your 'thank you' to guests, I might add) who doesn't see things the way you do. I get that you feel strongly about it, but it seems like this issue is making you have tunnel vision and you're kind of disregarding some important aspects that involve others.

ShellLillian · September 2013

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

no here's the thing, it's NOT going from 0 to 60. To us it is essentially the same thing. Murdering guests at a reception is not the same as serving a meat or vegetarian dish. You can't really be serious with that. That's like saying the Newtown shooting is the same as serving pizza with pepperoni, which is absolutely ridiculous and horribly insensitive.
Since cruelty doesn't affect you, let's try religion.
If you were Christian and someone offered to pay for a Hindu wedding and felt very strongly about it, would you accept? I would politely decline their money. "Thank you so much for offering, but we'd like to host the wedding ourselves." How do you tell them nicely without hurting their feelings that you aren't participating in something like that, even if most of the guests will be hindu? Well, since the CEREMONY is all about the B&G, I'd let them know that "this is our marriage and we'd like it to be as special to us as possible."

The RECEPTION is all about my GUESTS (not me and my groom) to thank them for coming to the ceremony, so if most of my guests were vegetarian, I'd have mostly vegetarian options. If most were vegan, I'd have mostly vegan options. If most were gluten intolerant, I'd have mostly gluten free options. All of that regardless of my own dietary choices. After all, the RECEPTION is for the GUESTS.

That's what my question was. I don't really care about anyone's feelings on vegetarian weddings or whether or not I should give in or not, I was looking for advice for how to work it out so that we get a vegan wedding and everyone is happy, since my parents feel very strongly about paying for everything (by the way, I've been vegan for years and so is their only other kid and they are very supportive of it, so your assumption that all I'm going to do is jump into it as a fight is a bit off base. Me snapping at rude and ignorant people on the internet is a bit different from the way I interact with my parents, who I love dearly). Did you just infer that I am rude and ignorant?

I assumed that since people having offbeat weddings have dealt with disagreements, someone would be able to help out with that conversation.
Apparently not. Wowwwwww. Someone says something you don't want to hear (which is pretty much anything except "it's YOUR day, you tell your parents to STFU because everything is all about YOU!!") and you call them rude, ignorant and unhelpful? I gave you several QUOTES and ideas for your conversation with them. You just don't like it because I tried to help you realize that there's more to consider here than just YOUR diet - your parents money/desires and your guests for starters.

Honestly, you are getting way too heated and defensive about this. It's not that deep. It seems like you don't really want another perspective on this.

ETA: Here's the breakdown - you want to let your parents pay, but you only want things your way and you're asking for help on how to politely inform them of that. What I'm telling you is that it's not possible because it's simply not polite. If someone offers you a gift (such as paying for hosting guests at your reception) and they'd like XYZ to be part of it, it's not graciously accepting their gift to say, "sorry, but I refuse to serve XYZ - we are only comfortable serving ABC."

To be gracious about accepting their gift, you compromise: "Well, you know FI and I are vegan, so it's important to us that there is a vegan option. We've appreciated your support over the years so we assume you're ok with having a vegan option. We understand that a meat option is important to you. Even though we aren't supportive of your diet choices, we respect you and we thank you so much for offering to pay for our wedding. Let's compromise and offer one vegan option and one meat option. Does that work for you? Great." If you aren't willing to compromise, you pay for it yourselves: "I'm sorry mom and dad, but this is something we feel strongly about and just aren't willing to compromise on. For that reason, we would like to pay for the food ourselves." It's not difficult.

Dreamergirl8812 · September 2013

I think you should cover your ears and stomp your feet whenever your parents attempt to be reasonable. Or anyone for that matter (like SouthernBelle).

WonderRed · September 2013

You're getting way too defensive and upset about this. No one told you serving a vegan dinner is a bad idea. It's your approach to the input that is off putting. If you want to serve only vegan options, that is 100% your prerogative, and I completely agree that it can be done in a way that makes your guests happy. But politely decline any offers of money if it's that big of a sticking point. You've already said you're prepared to do that, so there you go. But, in the interest of keeping your guests comfortable, make sure you are serving the something substantive and filling. I have had wonderful, filling, creative vegan dinners that I raved about. I have also been served plates of rice and carrot sticks and told it was dinner. Please don't do the latter.

If you think it's going to be that big of a deal with your family, even if you're paying for it, find a high end vegan caterer that you like, schedule a menu tasting, and take your mother with you for it so she can see for herself that it's possible.

photokitty · September 2013

I think you and your FI should sit down and plan a menu. Think of things you would be willing to serve that others would enjoy. Can you serve a type of pasta? Or spaghetti squash if there's not a vegan pasta? With lots of veggies and a flavorful tomato sauce? Then some other veggies? Fruits? A nice salad with nuts and more fruits or veggies? Maybe a make your own salad bar?

I'm not a vegan, so I'm not sure what you would be willing to serve and your parents are prolly in the same boat. If you go to them with a sample menu and can show how you can serve a tasty meal that will fill everyone up without including meat they will be more likely to come around. Knowledge is power...help them understand. GL!

casey8784 · September 2013

southernbelle0915 said:

ETA: Here's the breakdown - you want to let your parents pay, but you only want things your way and you're asking for help on how to politely inform them of that. What I'm telling you is that it's not possible because it's simply not polite. If someone offers you a gift (such as paying for hosting guests at your reception) and they'd like XYZ to be part of it, it's not graciously accepting their gift to say, "sorry, but I refuse to serve XYZ - we are only comfortable serving ABC."

This.

My FI's family is Orthodox Jewish, 100% Kosher, and they're all Shomer Shabbat (more than the "typical" observance - won't turn on lights/electricity, won't get in a car let alone drive it, etc during Shabbat). I grew up Reform, so suffice it to say that I don't even know all the rules about living Kosher.

Everyone says that the wedding is all about the bride, but there's also the groom, both families, and yes, even the guests to take into consideration. I would LOVE to have those mini bacon cheeseburger sliders at my wedding, but since that would offend (not upset, but actually offend) more than 50% of the guests at the reception, I know that it's not worth it insisting to have them on the menu.

My FILs are paying for our Rehearsal Dinner. The menu? Fish. Some veggie sides, probably a salad.

I don't eat fish. I actually HATE fish. Do I like this menu? Not in the slightest.

Am I going to say something or demand of them to offer foods that I want, just cause I'm the bride and "it's my day"? Hell no.

Since my FI and I aren't paying for the RD, we shouldn't expect to have food that is going to make my guests feel uncomfortable. Especially since I'm on amazing terms with my FIL's, to tell them that I'm basically ungrateful for everything they're paying for/providing = such a stupid move...

If you want an all vegan wedding, you and your FI need to pay for it. If you can't afford it right now, either postpone the wedding so you can save up some money, or suck it up and let your parents pay for it. It's all about compromise. Is having a 100% vegan reception really worth fighting with your mom? Maybe have a couple vegan plates but also have a couple vegetarian plates that even the biggest meat-lover may like? I love steak, but if I went to a wedding where they had options such as eggplant parm or veggie lasagna or some filling pasta salad/potato salad, I'd have no reason to complain.

ShellLillian · September 2013

photokitty · September 2013

ShellLillian said:
I think you guys are getting "not liking fish" and "we are seriously ethically opposed to something" completely confused. I'm completely fine with serving foods I don't like.
I'm not fine with serving animal products.
There is nothing at all similar between a meat eater serving eggplant at their wedding and a vegan serving steak at theirs. Unless you are deeply ethically opposed and disturbed by eggplant, then it's not the same thing. Eggplant is gross, but it isn't a dead animal.
Additionally, as I stated earlier, there is no ethical difference between serving a steak and serving cheese to us, as animals are tortured and die for both foods, so vegetarian options are absolutely no different from meat heavy options.

I don't know why this is being defensive or rude. It is something against my core beliefs and instead of suggestions for how to better bring it up I'm getting people attacking me for not wanting dead things at my wedding.

On another note, you guys have proven to be completely useless but I have found support and ideas elsewhere and I am working on scheduling a few tastings with some very highly rated caterers in the area that will hopefully convince my mom. If not, I will go elsewhere for more help with dealing with the issue.

Therefore your worthless input is not needed anymore.

Sorry for trying to help. I feel like I gave a thoughtful and understanding post. I'm glad you found a caterer to help, a suggestion someone offered you too. GL!

[Deleted User] · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

I think you guys are getting "not liking fish" and "we are seriously ethically opposed to something" completely confused. I'm completely fine with serving foods I don't like.
I'm not fine with serving animal products.
There is nothing at all similar between a meat eater serving eggplant at their wedding and a vegan serving steak at theirs. Unless you are deeply ethically opposed and disturbed by eggplant, then it's not the same thing. Eggplant is gross, but it isn't a dead animal.
Additionally, as I stated earlier, there is no ethical difference between serving a steak and serving cheese to us, as animals are tortured and die for both foods, so vegetarian options are absolutely no different from meat heavy options.

I don't know why this is being defensive or rude. It is something against my core beliefs and instead of suggestions for how to better bring it up I'm getting people attacking me for not wanting dead things at my wedding.

On another note, you guys have proven to be completely useless but I have found support and ideas elsewhere and I am working on scheduling a few tastings with some very highly rated caterers in the area that will hopefully convince my mom. If not, I will go elsewhere for more help with dealing with the issue.

Therefore your worthless input is not needed anymore.

Gee, you're a peach.

chibiyui · September 2013

ShellLillian said: I think you guys are getting "not liking fish" and "we are seriously ethically opposed to something" completely confused. I'm completely fine with serving foods I don't like.
I'm not fine with serving animal products.
There is nothing at all similar between a meat eater serving eggplant at their wedding and a vegan serving steak at theirs. Unless you are deeply ethically opposed and disturbed by eggplant, then it's not the same thing. Eggplant is gross, but it isn't a dead animal.
Additionally, as I stated earlier, there is no ethical difference between serving a steak and serving cheese to us, as animals are tortured and die for both foods, so vegetarian options are absolutely no different from meat heavy options.

I don't know why this is being defensive or rude. It is something against my core beliefs and instead of suggestions for how to better bring it up I'm getting people attacking me for not wanting dead things at my wedding.

On another note, you guys have proven to be completely useless but I have found support and ideas elsewhere and I am working on scheduling a few tastings with some very highly rated caterers in the area that will hopefully convince my mom. If not, I will go elsewhere for more help with dealing with the issue.

Therefore your worthless input is not needed anymore.

Dude. This is why Vegans aren't taken seriously

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

I think you guys are getting "not liking fish" and "we are seriously ethically opposed to something" completely confused. I'm completely fine with serving foods I don't like.
I'm not fine with serving animal products.
There is nothing at all similar between a meat eater serving eggplant at their wedding and a vegan serving steak at theirs. Unless you are deeply ethically opposed and disturbed by eggplant, then it's not the same thing. Eggplant is gross, but it isn't a dead animal.
Additionally, as I stated earlier, there is no ethical difference between serving a steak and serving cheese to us, as animals are tortured and die for both foods, so vegetarian options are absolutely no different from meat heavy options.

I don't know why this is being defensive or rude. It is something against my core beliefs and instead of suggestions for how to better bring it up I'm getting people attacking me for not wanting dead things at my wedding. Do you seriously think people are "attacking" you? hahah If anything you're the one who came out with personal insults (rude, ignorant, useless, worthless, etc.) - everyone else here tried to help you and no one threw personal insults at you. Look in the mirror. You're not a victim. Sorry.

On another note, you guys have proven to be completely useless but I have found support and ideas elsewhere and I am working on scheduling a few tastings with some very highly rated caterers in the area that will hopefully convince my mom. If not, I will go elsewhere for more help with dealing with the issue.
It's pretty egocentric and self-important to call people useless just because they don't agree with you. We all support you doing the right thing, which is why people took time out of their day to respond to you. Support =/= agreement.

Therefore your worthless input is not needed anymore.

So people's input is worthless because people didn't agree with you? How old are you? Serious question.

Your situation is not complicated AT ALL.

1) Pay for your food yourselves if you can't compromise

2) Compromise.

This is one of the easiest solutions ever. YOU make it more complicated because you want to have your cake (vegan menu - no compromises) and eat it too (someone else pays). If your parents agree to this, they're only further propagating this entitled attitude you seem to emit.

ShellLillian · September 2013

Photokitty, your response actually was very reassuring and I appreciated it quite a bit, it just got lost in the sea of negativity here.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

I got engaged yesterday, and since we want to get married in May and want to keep it from getting too out of hand in the money department (my parents are helping pay) we are starting to plan right away.

We are definitely an offbeat couple, and while we still want some traditional elements in our wedding (I'll definitely be wearing a white dress, for example) we know it's not going to be a traditional wedding by any stretch of the imagination.

While my parents are incredibly supportive, I don't know just how traditional they are expecting this to be, but I am worried about dealing with a lot of people not liking certain elements of the wedding. How do you guys deal with stuff like that, especially when someone else is paying for the majority of it?

We are both vegan, so we want to have an entirely vegan wedding, however aside from my brother nobody else in both of our families or circles of friends is even vegetarian, and my mom has already expressed some negative feelings towards the idea of not having a few meat options. Both of us are very strongly against it, even if we aren't paying for it.

That's going to be the biggest "offbeat" aspect of it, but I'm sure there will be more to come and I'll need some more help and advice.

@ShellLillian, the bolded suggested to me that you were not going to be paying for the catering. This is likely what @southernbelle0915 was referencing. Her advice is spot on, by the way. Clearly serving a vegan menu is important to you, decide if it is worth paying for yourself and you have your answer right there.

ShellLillian · September 2013

My parents OFFERED to pay. We didn't ask or expect them to. They offered to pay for the whole thing, which includes the catering.

Are you following?

Catering is part of a wedding. They offered to pay for the wedding.
We did not ask them to pay for the wedding.

We good so far?

We were expecting that there might be an issue with the catering, so we were prepared to pay.

Do you get that part?
However paying for the wedding is something my parents (who I love dearly) feel very strongly about.

Ok we have that part too, right? Are you putting it all together?

So we wanted to know the best way to avoid a fight and pay for it ourselves if the situation arose.

Now do you get that part too?

Ok, so you understand the situation! Yay!
Notice how it has literally nothing to do with serving meat being an option or the ethical considerations of vegan options.
Awesome.

Ok. Now let's fast forward to WE SOLVED THE PROBLEM.

So there's no need to continue on telling us to pay or not to pay.

Thank you, I hope this was simpler for you.

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

My parents OFFERED to pay. We didn't ask or expect them to. They offered to pay for the whole thing, which includes the catering.

Are you following?

Catering is part of a wedding. They offered to pay for the wedding.
We did not ask them to pay for the wedding. Do you realize that there are multiple contracts for a wedding? Do you realize that if someone says, "I want to pay for your wedding." you can say, "thank you! We still want to pay for catering because we want to do it our way, but we accept your offer to pay for the rest."

We good so far?

We were expecting that there might be an issue with the catering, so we were prepared to pay.

Do you get that part?
However paying for the wedding is something my parents (who I love dearly) feel very strongly about. Fine, then they get a say. It's YOUR wedding, if you don't want them to pay, then they don't pay. But if you accept their offer to pay, then you have to compromise on stuff. If you aren't willing to compromise, you decline their offer to pay. SIMPLE.

Ok we have that part too, right? Are you putting it all together? Everyone here is following... Are you? Do you not realize that you can decline someone's offer to pay for your wedding? You can. And/Or tell them that there are particular pieces of your wedding that YOU want to pay for? You could do this too. How is that a difficult concept?

So we wanted to know the best way to avoid a fight and pay for it ourselves if the situation arose.

Now do you get that part too? Are you serious? Go back and read this thread. That's exactly what people told you how to do. Over and over again. You kept arguing about the ethics of eating non-vegan and murdering guests. People told you it's irrelevant.

Ok, so you understand the situation! Yay!
Notice how it has literally nothing to do with serving meat being an option or the ethical considerations of vegan options.
Awesome.

Ok. Now let's fast forward to WE SOLVED THE PROBLEM.

So there's no need to continue on telling us to pay or not to pay.

Thank you, I hope this was simpler for you.

This post is super condescending and rude. Especially when it's obvious that you clearly do not understand the "s/he who pays gets a say" concept and being able to decline others' financing offers. The fact that you're getting super defensive and trying to act like OTHER people don't get it just makes you look absolutely clueless.

I still want to know how old you are. Serious question.

WonderRed · September 2013

@southernbelle0915 she's 21.

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

WonderRed said:

@southernbelle0915 she's 21.

Ahhhh I see...

ShellLillian · September 2013

It was meant to be condescending.
You guys are being incredibly condescending and making a lot of assumptions about me that are completely baseless, and now are justifying them because you found out I'm younger than you.

Additionally, some of the most rude posters in this thread are being completely civil to me elsewhere on these forums, yet here I'm being attacked for things about how I'm a bad person and stuff that isn't even relevant to the thread. It's the same immature, rude, defensive, bitchy vegan posting everywhere else.

southernbelle0915 · September 2013

ShellLillian said:

It was meant to be condescending.
You guys are being incredibly condescending and making a lot of assumptions about me that are completely baseless, and now are justifying them because you found out I'm younger than you.

Additionally, some of the most rude posters in this thread are being completely civil to me elsewhere on these forums, yet here I'm being attacked for things about how I'm a bad person and stuff that isn't even relevant to the thread. Um, where? I don't see where anyone called you a bad person? It's the same immature, rude, defensive, bitchy vegan posting everywhere else.

No one here has been rude to you or attacked you. YOU on the other hand have called people (me in particular) worthless, rude, immature, useless, ignorant. That coupled with purposely condescending posts and then you think YOU'RE being attacked? Please. Even with all that, no one here has dropped any insults on you. You're welcome.

Also, you don't get to tell people how to respond to a public forum. Every single one of your posts is quoted, so DD'ing is pointless. A word of advice - dropping personal insults and then crying victim doesn't work here and it doesn't work anywhere else in the real world. Get used to it.

Dreamergirl8812 · September 2013

Wow.

ShellLillian said:

It was meant to be condescending.
You guys are being incredibly condescending and making a lot of assumptions about me that are completely baseless, and now are justifying them because you found out I'm younger than you.

Additionally, some of the most rude posters in this thread are being completely civil to me elsewhere on these forums, yet here I'm being attacked for things about how I'm a bad person and stuff that isn't even relevant to the thread. It's the same immature, rude, defensive, bitchy vegan posting everywhere else.

That's the fucking point. People are telling you that your entitled attitude sucks based on what you said in this thread. It is not personal and no one hates you. If your attitude is different on other threads no one is going to criticize you on those threads.

ETA: And if I had know which thread this was I wouldn't have clicked on it. But since it was a temper tantrum DD I had to check it out.

MadHops21 · October 2013

You're giving us 21 year olds a bad name...

I clicked on this thread for the temper tantrum, too @Dreamergirl8812

shaylagirl · October 2013

Yeah, I was SUPER happy someone quoted the DDs.

Also...MAN, OP is why people think vegans are crazy. Reading comprehension FAIL on the OPs part.

I was sitting here trying to figure out how anyone could have made it ANY clearer that if you want a vegan only menu, YOU pay.

I'm kinda curious if the OP plans on having NO animal products in her wedding at all (leather on shoes, and I'm sure there's more stuff I am unaware of) since she seems a little bit like a rabid vegan.

mimiphin · October 2013

I hope OP isn't having marshmallow fondant on her wedding cake...

Silk and Wool is out too,

I am so glad that this was quoted!!

d2va · October 2013

ShellLillian said:

It was meant to be condescending.
You guys are being incredibly condescending and making a lot of assumptions about me that are completely baseless, and now are justifying them because you found out I'm younger than you.

Additionally, some of the most rude posters in this thread are being completely civil to me elsewhere on these forums, yet here I'm being attacked for things about how I'm a bad person and stuff that isn't even relevant to the thread. It's the same immature, rude, defensive, bitchy vegan posting everywhere else.

NOM

thejucheidea · October 2013

Passive-aggressive post name change?

But then after reading the whole thing:

I don't need your help anymore, so please do not respond.

Re: I don't need your help anymore, so please do not respond.

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