Is the photographer supposed to tell you what to do?

lrigyelims · October 2013

So, I wanted to ask you guys what you think about my situation. Is it normal?...am I wrong?...Please help! Here's the situation... I have booked a photographer for our engagement photos, bridals, and wedding (It was a package). We are taking engagement photos this weekend and our photographer asked me to send her pictures of our outfits so that she could bring props that coordinate. I sent her photos of 4 outfits and she messaged me saying that we will not have time but for 2 outfits. Just to be clear, the outfits consist of one set of formal wear (dress and slacks/button up), the other 3 are the same pair of jeans and different tops/shoes (all we would have to change is the top and shoes). I told her that I could go down to three but no less than that. She said she doesn't usually "allow" people to wear more than two outfits. However, I have gotten her to agree to 3 outfits. This whole situation worries me. I don't feel like I should be having to deal with this. Aren't I paying her?...Shouldn't she let us have as many outfits as we want? Granted, the lighting will only be good during certain times, but can't she just explain that but in the end say it's up to us. I'm really really frustrated/stressed out about this! I am the type of person who knows exactly what she wants, and I am worried that a photographer that tells me what I can and cannot do will just make me angry and more stressed. Am I right with thinking that she shouldn't tell me what to do because I am paying her? Thoughts/suggestions?!?!?!

KatWAG · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

So, I wanted to ask you guys what you think about my situation. Is it normal?...am I wrong?...Please help! Here's the situation... I have booked a photographer for our engagement photos, bridals, and wedding (It was a package). We are taking engagement photos this weekend and our photographer asked me to send her pictures of our outfits so that she could bring props that coordinate. I sent her photos of 4 outfits and she messaged me saying that we will not have time but for 2 outfits. Just to be clear, the outfits consist of one set of formal wear (dress and slacks/button up), the other 3 are the same pair of jeans and different tops/shoes (all we would have to change is the top and shoes). I told her that I could go down to three but no less than that. She said she doesn't usually "allow" people to wear more than two outfits. However, I have gotten her to agree to 3 outfits. This whole situation worries me. I don't feel like I should be having to deal with this. Aren't I paying her?...Shouldn't she let us have as many outfits as we want? Granted, the lighting will only be good during certain times, but can't she just explain that but in the end say it's up to us. I'm really really frustrated/stressed out about this! I am the type of person who knows exactly what she wants, and I am worried that a photographer that tells me what I can and cannot do will just make me angry and more stressed. Am I right with thinking that she shouldn't tell me what to do because I am paying her? Thoughts/suggestions?!?!?!

What does your contract say? I personally think 4 outfits is overkill.

manateehugger · October 2013

Does your contract/package say anything about outfit changes? Many photogs only allow for a certain number of changes.

photokitty · October 2013

You get a set amount of time and it is fairly common for photographers to limit the amount of outfit changes. You are paying her, but her time is valuable and she knows how long an engagement session will take.

If 4 outfits are that important to you I would ask her if you pay for a longer session or ask her what her concerns are - if it is length of time than you have to be willing to give up some shots as you will be changing a lot during the shoot.

GL!

manateehugger · October 2013

Also - 4 outfits for an engagement shoot is A LOT. What do you really plan to do with all those pictures??

climbingsingle · October 2013

Why do you need so many outfit changes? You're not hosting the Oscars.

STARMOON44 · October 2013

To an extent: yes! You're paying the photog to get good pictures. That means telling you where to stand, when to smile, and that 4 outfit changes for an engagement shoot is crazy. You're paying your photog for their expertise, which is, in this case, that 4 outfits is 3 outfits too many.

southernbelle0915 · October 2013

photogs typically limit your wardrobe changes - it's usually 2. Four is way too many. You'll spend more time changing your clothes than having photos taken.

thelastdreamer · October 2013

Uh, it's just engagement pictures. Are you going to have 12 different outfits for your wedding pictures?

grumbledore · October 2013

My personal opinion is that you are overreacting. Also, what on earth will you do with photos of you and your FI on a single day in 4 different outfits? I mean, seriously. I have photos all over my house and I wouldn't know what to do with that many of basically the same photo.

Maggie0829 · October 2013

I have never seen any more then 2 different outfits for engagement pictures and even that seems like overkill to me.

I think you are overreacting a little. Just pick to outfits and be done with it. You will still get amazing pictures of you and your FI no matter if you wear one outfit or 500.

lrigyelims · October 2013

Well, we have cut it down to 3 outfits. We need 3 outfits because we have a specific outfit for our pictures with our 2 dogs, then our formal and casual outfits. As far as the contract goes, she said we would sign that at/before the engagement shoot. I've asked friends/family and they have all said that she should ask what we want..and if it would cost more..let us know. Then, we can make the decision what to do. I think perhaps you guys are misunderstanding the problem I am having....I welcome her thoughts/opinions...if she would have said only 2 or 3 outfits because light may run out or whatever that would be one thing...I just don't like the fact that she said "allow". I'm worried the rest of the photos will be what she "allows", instead of what we want. Basically, I'm wanting to know if other photographers say things like that "this is what I allow", or run the show like that...or are they more open to what you want.

Maggie0829 · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

Well, we have cut it down to 3 outfits. We need 3 outfits because we have a specific outfit for our pictures with our 2 dogs, then our formal and casual outfits. As far as the contract goes, she said we would sign that at/before the engagement shoot. I've asked friends/family and they have all said that she should ask what we want..and if it would cost more..let us know. Then, we can make the decision what to do. I think perhaps you guys are misunderstanding the problem I am having....I welcome her thoughts/opinions...if she would have said only 2 or 3 outfits because light may run out or whatever that would be one thing...I just don't like the fact that she said "allow". I'm worried the rest of the photos will be what she "allows", instead of what we want. Basically, I'm wanting to know if other photographers say things like that "this is what I allow", or run the show like that...or are they more open to what you want.

You seriously have an outfit just for photos with your dog? Why can't that be your casual outfit?

This person is a professional and has most likely done an engagement shoot once or twice before so she most likely knows what she is doing and knows that 2 outfits is best for the amount of time involved in the shoot and for how many pictures she is going to take.

If you don't like how she responds to you then find another photographer.

manateehugger · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

Well, we have cut it down to 3 outfits. We need 3 outfits because we have a specific outfit for our pictures with our 2 dogs, then our formal and casual outfits. As far as the contract goes, she said we would sign that at/before the engagement shoot. I've asked friends/family and they have all said that she should ask what we want..and if it would cost more..let us know. Then, we can make the decision what to do. I think perhaps you guys are misunderstanding the problem I am having....I welcome her thoughts/opinions...if she would have said only 2 or 3 outfits because light may run out or whatever that would be one thing...I just don't like the fact that she said "allow". I'm worried the rest of the photos will be what she "allows", instead of what we want. Basically, I'm wanting to know if other photographers say things like that "this is what I allow", or run the show like that...or are they more open to what you want.

She's probably got you slated into a timeframe/package here. She's probably concerned that the quality of the photos will suffer if you waste too much time changing clothes.

If you don't like the way she works, find another photographer. Otherwise, yes, most of them will line out rules in their contracts. You're paying them for a service - but you don't own them.

mommapizano · October 2013

I don't think she is really telling you what to do. I am sure she only has a set amount of time that is included in the package. If you are interested in additional shots I bet she could do them but it might be an additional cost.

CTYankeeBride · October 2013

Most photographers budget a certain amount of time per shoot, because they have a limit as to how many photos they can reasonably edit and get back to you in a specific time frame. This means they plan on taking a certain number of photos so they have a good pool of work to pick from (not every shot is great and those get discarded). This means if you're spending time changing outfits, this is less time for the photographer to do what she is being paid to do- pose you, and take your photo.

To answer your concerns, you don't "need" 3 outfits, dogs or no dogs. Ditch an outfit change and you will get much better pictures because there will actually be much more selection, trust me. You are hiring her to provide a service and she is the professional here. She isn't telling you where to put your couch, she is telling you that there's a limit to what she is able to accommodate in order to provide her clients (you) the best final product that she can. It is her job to help your shoot go as successfully as possible, and 4 outfit changes is overkill and more of a logistical nightmare than you realize. When you factor in that you're including your dogs, and they may or may not cooperate fully, I think you expect too much.

Depending on what kind of communication you've had with her, she may be under the impression that you want a specific package and this shoot with 2 outfit changes is what that shoot includes. She may not be aware that you're prepared to pay more for a longer shoot or more outfit changes. This is pretty standard, limiting outfit changes. If you haven't signed a contract yet, then you're under no obligation to work with her. You can go ahead and find another photographer who will accommodate you.

climbingsingle · October 2013

She probably said "allow" because you're being demanding and want way too many outfit changes. You do not need that many pictures of so many outfits. It is overkill. You're getting bridals too and then the wedding pictures. What are you going to do with all these pictures?!

wrigleyville · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

Well, we have cut it down to 3 outfits. We need 3 outfits because we have a specific outfit for our pictures with our 2 dogs, then our formal and casual outfits. As far as the contract goes, she said we would sign that at/before the engagement shoot. I've asked friends/family and they have all said that she should ask what we want..and if it would cost more..let us know. Then, we can make the decision what to do. I think perhaps you guys are misunderstanding the problem I am having....I welcome her thoughts/opinions...if she would have said only 2 or 3 outfits because light may run out or whatever that would be one thing...I just don't like the fact that she said "allow". I'm worried the rest of the photos will be what she "allows", instead of what we want. Basically, I'm wanting to know if other photographers say things like that "this is what I allow", or run the show like that...or are they more open to what you want.

What, exactly, did you want her to say? Are you upset she didn't soften that blow? She's a professional, running a business. "Allow" is a perfectly valid verb to use in this situation.

It's like your reception venue saying they don't "allow" open flames instead of, "Well, we'd super really love it if you maybe didn't use candles because we don't want to risk a fire." Contracts are short and to the point. "Allow" is a common verb in contracts.

If you want four outfits, you need to pay her more and budget more time. If she still won't allow four outfits, and you absolutely have to wear a special outfit for your dog photo, then you need to find a new photographer.

Dreamergirl8812 · October 2013

wrigleyville said:

lrigyelims said:

Well, we have cut it down to 3 outfits. We need 3 outfits because we have a specific outfit for our pictures with our 2 dogs, then our formal and casual outfits. As far as the contract goes, she said we would sign that at/before the engagement shoot. I've asked friends/family and they have all said that she should ask what we want..and if it would cost more..let us know. Then, we can make the decision what to do. I think perhaps you guys are misunderstanding the problem I am having....I welcome her thoughts/opinions...if she would have said only 2 or 3 outfits because light may run out or whatever that would be one thing...I just don't like the fact that she said "allow". I'm worried the rest of the photos will be what she "allows", instead of what we want. Basically, I'm wanting to know if other photographers say things like that "this is what I allow", or run the show like that...or are they more open to what you want.

What, exactly, did you want her to say? Are you upset she didn't soften that blow? She's a professional, running a business. "Allow" is a perfectly valid verb to use in this situation.

It's like your reception venue saying they don't "allow" open flames instead of, "Well, we'd super really love it if you maybe didn't use candles because we don't want to risk a fire." Contracts are short and to the point. "Allow" is a common verb in contracts.

If you want four outfits, you need to pay her more and budget more time. If she still won't allow four outfits, and you absolutely have to wear a special outfit for your dog photo, then you need to find a new photographer.

This. She probably also knows that with 3 or 4 outfits she will end up taking the same pictures in the same poses over and over again in multiple outfits.

Angeles61 · October 2013

You're definitely overreacting. Really, this makes you "angry"? You should take a deep breath and not let small things bother you so much or you're going to have a hard time with wedding planning.

We just had our engagement shoot a couple weeks ago. She has shot lots and lots of weddings. The engagement shoot was included in our wedding package. She said she usually "allows" two outfit changes. We brought our dog and took photos with him in our more casual outfits.

I can't imagine changing our outfits that many times. We were walking around outside taking pictures. Once you change, you have to start all over again. It's a waste of time.

And yes, she will tell you when to smile, look at the camera, where to stand/sit, when to look at eachother. Get used to it.

lrigyelims · October 2013

It has nothing to do with softening the blow...it's just that I am worried that when it comes to my other photos it will be only what she wants instead of what I want. That is the bottom line. I originally posted this trying to find out what is common among photographers, instead I have had numerous people ridcule me for having too many outfits. You may think 3 or 4 outfits is too much, but I don't. Everyone is different. Let's keep the negative comments to ourselves please, and just simply comment if you have actual helpful comments/advice. For those of you who were actually trying to help instead of ridiculing, thank you. I now see that perhaps I was in the wrong, and this is common.

After saying that, do you think that the photographer is going to do what she wants when it comes to the wedding and bridal portraits?....afterall, that is what I am mostly worried about...

lrigyelims · October 2013

*perhaps this would have all been easier if we would have already signed the contract, because then I would know what to expect

LDubHawksFan · October 2013

4 outfits is overkill. Most e shoots are an hr at most and that is probably what she is basing her statements on. You are going to spend much of that time changing. Just wear your casual outfit with your dogs. You need to respect her time. If you don't like it, look for another photographer, but most will have similar requirements because they are providing a service but it isn't unlimited.

For ours, we only had one outfit and took pictures with our dog (I would highly recommend doing those pictures at home and not dragging someone to watch your dogs during the rest of your shoot).

Dreamergirl8812 · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

It has nothing to do with softening the blow...it's just that I am worried that when it comes to my other photos it will be only what she wants instead of what I want. That is the bottom line. I originally posted this trying to find out what is common among photographers, instead I have had numerous people ridcule me for having too many outfits. You may think 3 or 4 outfits is too much, but I don't. Everyone is different. Let's keep the negative comments to ourselves please, and just simply comment if you have actual helpful comments/advice. For those of you who were actually trying to help instead of ridiculing, thank you. I now see that perhaps I was in the wrong, and this is common.

After saying that, do you think that the photographer is going to do what she wants when it comes to the wedding and bridal portraits?....afterall, that is what I am mostly worried about...

Everyone answered your question. Everyone. It may not be what you wanted to hear, but if that's the case you shouldn't have asked. Everyone is saying that she did not cross the line, she's a professional, and you need to chill out. That is the advice. Chill out.

The fact that she used the word "allow" does not mean she's a photogzilla. Multiple PPs have said that their photographers said the same thing, and it wasn't a problem.

Angeles61 · October 2013

You need to be realistic and discuss with your photographer what you're envisioning and expecting. Maybe show her some photos you found that you like, so she has an idea of what you're thinking of. As far as outfits, she has a time frame to stick to, so that is something you should work with her on, just like she is being flexible by letting you choose three.

Photographers don't force you to do things against your will.. you need to let her know what you want so she can give you that. But be realistic with your expectations as well.

SP29 · October 2013

I agree with the others- she is most likely only "allows" 2 outfits because an engagement shoot is usually a set period of time in which she knows she will be able to take a set number of photos. If you are changing outfits you will be cutting into photo time.

Overall, I do think you are over-reacting and are likely thinking too much about specific words she is using versus the message she is giving. I think you should discuss this more with her and ask her WHY she limits outfits if more outfits are so important to you. If it is due to timing/package price, then you can bring up that you are prepared to book more time and pay more for the shoot to better fit your needs.

Also, if you have specific photos/poses you would like captured, be sure to have these decided on prior and discussed beforehand so she knows what you're looking for and can tell you if there will be enough time to capture them all.

APDSS22 · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

*perhaps this would have all been easier if we would have already signed the contract, because then I would know what to expect

I agree, the contract lays out what to expect from a vendor. (What they allow for outfit changes included.) If you're still set on this photographer, I'd read over the rest of the contract stipulations before you sign and pay because they might indeed have the same expectations for all the shoots.

manateehugger · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

It has nothing to do with softening the blow...it's just that I am worried that when it comes to my other photos it will be only what she wants instead of what I want. That is the bottom line. I originally posted this trying to find out what is common among photographers, instead I have had numerous people ridcule me for having too many outfits. You may think 3 or 4 outfits is too much, but I don't. Everyone is different. Let's keep the negative comments to ourselves please, and just simply comment if you have actual helpful comments/advice. For those of you who were actually trying to help instead of ridiculing, thank you. I now see that perhaps I was in the wrong, and this is common.

After saying that, do you think that the photographer is going to do what she wants when it comes to the wedding and bridal portraits?....afterall, that is what I am mostly worried about...

Sigh - bottom line - people are saying that what your photographer is saying is perfectly reasonable. She's not "doing what she wants" - she's doing her job as a photographer. She has her reputation and professional portfolio at stake here. Again, what does your contract say?

It's helpful to listen to the advice of those who are further along in planning (or just - life in general) than you. They aren't ridiculing you;they are saying you probably wont have much use for so many pictures. Your money might be better spent elsewhere.

ETA: Why are you so upset by this if you haven't even contracted with this lady?

lrigyelims · October 2013

I was worried BC have paid the deposit and have more or less a verbal contract until we sign the actual contract. Plus, I really love her work...
Now, about the problem I had...you guys have helped me to see that I am overreacting/overthinking this. I was just worried that, like someone said, our photographer would be photozilla... However, I'm much less worried now bc I see this is common verbage and common expectations. Thx!

NYCMercedes · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

I was worried BC have paid the deposit and have more or less a verbal contract until we sign the actual contract. Plus, I really love her work... Now, about the problem I had...you guys have helped me to see that I am overreacting/overthinking this. I was just worried that, like someone said, our photographer would be photozilla... However, I'm much less worried now bc I see this is common verbage and common expectations. Thx!

Good luck! You seem quite reasonable now.

manateehugger · October 2013

lrigyelims said:

I was worried BC have paid the deposit and have more or less a verbal contract until we sign the actual contract. Plus, I really love her work... Now, about the problem I had...you guys have helped me to see that I am overreacting/overthinking this. I was just worried that, like someone said, our photographer would be photozilla... However, I'm much less worried now bc I see this is common verbage and common expectations. Thx!

Whoa! You paid a deposit without a formal contract? I'd insist on getting a formal written contract laid out ASAP.

Is the photographer supposed to tell you what to do?

Re: Is the photographer supposed to tell you what to do?

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