Pope Benedict XVI to Resign

meltoine · February 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/europe/pope-benedict-xvi-says-he-will-retire.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp

I wonder why. I highly doubt it's just because he's old. My gut says there's more going on here. Thoughts?

meltoine · February 2013

Plenty of popes, JPII included, have held onto the office long after they were truly physically capable of doing so. I think if he were really so I'll and frail the Vatican officials wouldn't be acting so shocked about it. I really hope there's nothing to it, but given the frequency with which popes resign, especially given that they are generally pretty old by nature, makes me wonder. ETA: He's looked frail to me every time I've seen him in person. He looked quite sickly in DC in 2008, and again in Rome in 2010. I don't think he looks all that different in recent photos.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

im sure its his health. he's also had a pretty challening pope-ship, so that probably didnt help his health.

i hope his replacement is good.

MedStudent13 · February 2013

I read in an article that his doctor had advised him not to travel out of the country anymore, so I definitely think it could be his health. Although I do really wonder why he chose to resign before lent is over...

bibliophile2010 · February 2013

I would also place my bet on health. Aren't all other bishops now required to resign at 85?

I would imagine he did it now so that his successor will be installed by/around Easter.

agapecarrie · February 2013

The fact that this is a surprise is a good thing. If a pope resigns under pressure, that sets a horrible precedent.

Also: from Jimmy Akin:

http://jimmyakin.com/2013/02/first-thoughts-on-pope-benedicts-resignation.html

8. The fact that Pope Benedict chose to do this now, just before Lent begins, so that his resignation takes place in two weeks and we should have a new pope before Easter, means that his deterioration of health is serious. This is also the case in view of the big agenda he set for this year (the Year of Faith) and that he will now not complete.

caitriona87 · February 2013

Other bishops resign at 75. I don't doubt that it is difficult if not impossible for him to keep up his schedule at that age. I'm still surprised though.

bibliophile2010 · February 2013

Just to clarify, I don't think the Pope should be forced to retire at any age. I was just reflecting, like Catriona, on how demanding the job must be for anyone, much less someone in their 80s. I have seen first-hand how rapidly health can decline in that population, so while I'm saddened, I'm not totally shocked.

I'm more surprised, like Carrie, that he will not see the Year of Faith to its end. But, in a sense, going through this is part of the Faith we are called to learn and live more fully. We see God's apostolic plan in action, and trust that God will continue to provide for the Church, in the form of a new, worthy successor to St. Peter.

lalaith50 · February 2013

<span style="font-size:11px;line-height:14px;">[QUOTE]<a href="http://jimmyakin.com/2013/02/first-thoughts-on-pope-benedicts-resignation.html" rel="nofollow">http://jimmyakin.com/2013/02/first-thoughts-on-pope-benedicts-resignation.html</a></span>
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
good article! A whole bunch of great points to keep in mind.

newlyseliski · February 2013

I'll definitely miss him but agree that it probably is deteriorating health! The papacy has got to be one of the most physically and spiritually demanding positions in the world... God bless him.

Chloeagh · February 2013

A lot of my liberal Facebook friends are talking about how they hope the next pope is "better." Like this status:

"does anybody else think it's probably a good thing? goodness. he stepped up during a time of crisis in the Church, but that doesn't excuse his close-minded opinions about homosexuality, other religions, female priests, stem-cell research..."

They seem to think/hope that the next pope is going to be young and liberal and change the entire church to fit with what society says it should believe. They are going to be sadly disappointed.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

people are idiots.

bloverde · February 2013

My first concern was that he has Alzheimer's. He did say strength of mind in his letter.

shawna127 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:5fc65cb8-67e2-45d7-bd8b-c3bc963fe3c9">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]A lot of my liberal Facebook friends are talking about how they hope the next pope is "better." Like this status:<strong> " does anybody else think it's probably a good thing? goodness. he stepped up during a time of crisis in the Church, but that doesn't excuse his close-minded opinions about homosexuality, other religions, female priests, stem-cell research..."</strong> They seem to think/hope that the next pope is going to be young and liberal and change the entire church to fit with what society says it should believe. They are going to be sadly disappointed.
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]

This makes me sad on so many levels. We really need to pray for these people and especially for our church and that the Lord helps us choose a new Pope

libby18bell · February 2013

It always amuses me how non Catholic Americans think the church that has been around for 2,000 years needs to change for them. Granted as a New Yorker I would be ecstatic if Cardinal Dolan was considered, it's the reality of what it is, that it's highly unlikely that the next pope or any pope will come from the US. There is also no way the church will change because some non members think it should, when the members around the world follow and agree with the church's strict positions.

lalaith50 · February 2013

[QUOTE]" does anybody else think it's probably a good thing? goodness. he stepped up during a time of crisis in the Church, but that doesn't excuse his close-minded opinions about homosexuality, other religions, female priests, stem-cell research..." They seem to think/hope that the next pope is going to be young and liberal and change the entire church to fit with what society says it should believe. They are going to be sadly disappointed.
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]<div>oh, gag. fat chance of that... more than half of the current 110-ish voting members were appointed by Benedict himself! Tell those kinds of people to just keep hoping... Maybe if they HOPE hard enough, then women will be priests some day, LOL!!!!!

</div>

lalaith50 · February 2013

Fr. Federico Lombardi, director of the Holy See Press Office, "Among the reasons for the Pope's resignation, as he noted in his own words," he said, "are the circumstances of today's world that, in relation to the past, are particularly difficult, both because of the speed as well as the number of events and problems that arise that, therefore, need a vigour, perhaps stronger than in the past. It is a vigour that the Pope says he has felt diminish in him in recent months."

good point.

GoodLuckBear14 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:c19dd3ca-96d7-417a-a09d-6890fda35c97">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]It always amuses me how non Catholic Americans think the church that has been around for 2,000 years needs to change for them. Granted as a New Yorker I would be ecstatic if Cardinal Dolan was considered, it's the reality of what it is, that it's highly unlikely that the next pope or any pope will come from the US. There is also no way the church will change because some non members think it should, when the members around the world follow and agree with the church's strict positions.
Posted by libby18bell[/QUOTE]

Not all Catholics agree with everything the Church says or does.

lalaith50 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:eea09248-64ae-4de5-899f-3377fde5082e">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign : Not all Catholics agree with everything the Church says or does.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]
don't hold your breath.

femme55 · February 2013

This is sort of a side issue, but I was reading an article on Pope Benedict and there was this part:

He also angered some Jews who equated the pre-Vatican II church with the time when Jews were still considered ripe for conversion and were held responsible collectively for the death of Christ.

Yet like John Paul, Benedict had made reaching out to Jews a hallmark of his papacy. His first official act as pope was a letter to Rome's Jewish community and he became the second pope in history, after John Paul, to enter a synagogue.

And in his 2011 book "Jesus of Nazareth" Benedict made a sweeping exoneration of the Jewish people for the death of Christ, explaining biblically and theologically why there was no basis in Scripture for the argument that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for Jesus' death.

I really don't understand where the whole argument of anyone being responsible for Jesus' death ever came from to begin with. Don't Christians believe that Jesus' death was part of God's plan? So how could anyone be "responsible"?

monkeysip · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:fe0029e6-049c-4478-a3e1-5d0676fdd35e">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]This is sort of a side issue, but I was reading an article on Pope Benedict and there was this part: He also angered some Jews who equated the pre-Vatican II church with the time when Jews were still considered ripe for conversion and were held responsible collectively for the death of Christ. Yet like John Paul, Benedict had made reaching out to Jews a hallmark of his papacy. His first official act as pope was a letter to Rome's Jewish community and he became the second pope in history, after John Paul, to enter a synagogue. And in his 2011 book "Jesus of Nazareth" Benedict made a sweeping exoneration of the Jewish people for the death of Christ, explaining biblically and theologically why there was no basis in Scripture for the argument that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for Jesus' death. I really don't understand where the whole argument of anyone being responsible for Jesus' death ever came from to begin with. Don't Christians believe that Jesus' death was part of God's plan? So how could anyone be "responsible"?
Posted by femme55@hotmail.com[/QUOTE]

Interesting quote on the Pope's relationship with the Jewish population.

To answer you last question though, the killing of Christ was an act of evil, not willed but allowed by God. Those responsible for his death (the Sanhedrin, Pilate, the crowds, the roman guards, Judas, etc. all in part), did commit sin. God knew it would happen but did not will it to happen. He made good come of it though... the most supreme good that would ever happen in human history. This is the paradox of human suffering. God does not ever will evil, but he may allow evil so that good can come of it.

It's still silly, of course, to say things like "The jews killed Jesus", when it wasn't all Jews, but only some Jews in a particular time and place. Plus a bunch of non-jews as well. And the true reality is that we are all somewhat responsible for Jesus' death because we are all sinners and all contributers to a fallen world.

GoodLuckBear14 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:f0bf5b47-98a7-4c3b-8b50-d8e349d6c565">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign : don't hold your breath.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

Don't hold my breath? For what? All I did was point out that not all Catholics agree with the Vatican.

agapecarrie · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:eea09248-64ae-4de5-899f-3377fde5082e">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign : Not all Catholics agree with everything the Church says or does.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

<div>Something all of us here are very aware of. and its very unfortunate, because one teaching is connected to the next, and it really doesn't make sense to believe one thing but not another.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>As aside: this isn't talking about actions of specific people related to the church.</div>

lalaith50 · February 2013

I think the controversy started in the wording of the pre-vatican II Good Friday prayer for the Jews... You can see the development of the wording on the wikipedia page-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_prayer_for_the_Jews

As far as I can tell (I'm sure someone - Riss? - can explain it better,)

people are offended by the wording used in the "Tridentine" Mass, because Benedict is the one to reintroduce it, but I really can't tell what is wrong with it. "that God would illuminate their hearts" what's so offensive and anti-Semitic about that? Of course we want the Jews to find salvation in Jesus!

I'm baffled how people can look at that one tiny thing (it's not even something he *did,* as much as something that was a result of his allowing something *else,*) and think that it outweighs all the other good he has done for relationships with Jews!

femme55 · February 2013

To answer you last question though, the killing of Christ was an act of evil, not willed but allowed by God. Those responsible for his death (the Sanhedrin, Pilate, the crowds, the roman guards, Judas, etc. all in part), did commit sin. God knew it would happen but did not will it to happen. He made good come of it though... the most supreme good that would ever happen in human history.

Maybe I didn't pay proper attention in my confirmation prep classes, but my understanding is that Christ was sent to earth to serve as the supreme sacrifice for humankind's sin? ("For God so loved the world that he sent his only Son..").

peppy22vball · February 2013

It's his health. I think the big deal comes from that majority of popes die while serving as pope. I figured that he was going to be an interim/ short term pope. Keep the conclave in your prayers as the selection of the next pope begins.

monkeysip · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-benedict-xvi-to-resign?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:54e8f1f7-9915-4102-a428-d8294b6b846bPost:e11c17d4-a0a8-4056-99f4-7036a8aaf880">Re: Pope Benedict XVI to Resign</a>:
[QUOTE]To answer you last question though, the killing of Christ was an act of evil, not willed but allowed by God. Those responsible for his death (the Sanhedrin, Pilate, the crowds, the roman guards, Judas, etc. all in part), did commit sin. God knew it would happen but did not will it to happen. He made good come of it though... the most supreme good that would ever happen in human history. Maybe I didn't pay proper attention in my confirmation prep classes, but my understanding is that Christ was sent to earth to serve as the supreme sacrifice for humankind's sin? ("For God so loved the world that he sent his only Son..").
Posted by femme55@hotmail.com[/QUOTE]

First, Christ's salvific work began when he was first conceived. Saving the world involved a lot more than just being crucified.

Second, God is omniscient. He knew that Christ would crucified, but did not will it. He allowed it, knowing that he could bring good from it and redeem mankind through the crucifixion and resurrection. But the act of killing Christ was not God's doing, and is evil. That is why Judas killed himself... he knew he had done a terrible thing. Jesus was innocent, and killing an innocent person is ALWAYS wrong. Again, the crucifixion of Jesus was an evil act, but God knew that he could bring good out of it.

chelseamb11 · February 2013

Honestly, I agree that I think he set a VERY good precedent. If anything, it should prove to a lot of people who think the Church is only about power that it actually isn't. If he truly feels that he cannot properly lead the Church, then props to him for recognizing it and not sticking with the "norm" and riding his papacy out until he died.

shawna127 · February 2013

Since we're on the subject of people who don't actually know what the church teaches and just believe what they want to. You guys should go take a look at the thread in the nest under politics and current events. It's making me pretty angry!

Chloeagh · February 2013

Maybe someone can better explain how the church normally deals with really old popes, but I don't see anything suspicious about him retiring. Yeah, my grandpa is 92 and doing great, but it's been years since my 86/87 year old grandma would have been capable of doing anything like what the pope has to do.

Also, FI just told me that some people are concerned that since Pope Benedict is still alive, if people don't like the new pope, it could lead to a schism with some people following Benedict. Thoughts? We think this is an extremely bizarre concern.

agapecarrie · February 2013

In the book "Pierced by a sword" which I believe is based on some sort of prophecies, but I don't know if they are approved.

There is an assasination attempt on the pope, but he survives, although no one knows he is alive. A new pope is elected, but his motives are power, and he promotes all sorts of very non- catholic ideas, then moves onto brainwashing.

Meanwhile, the real pope recovers from his injuries, and a big showdown happens.

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