TheKnot positions on kid participation in weddings

Jen4948 · November 2013

Sorry, cidefi, this is not about what you think the law says. This is about what etiquette says, which often does require things the law does not.

Etiquette does require that if the other parent is still in the child's life, it is not polite to exclude the other parent from decisions about their mutual child's participation in one parent's remarriage, regardless of whether or not it is legally required. So it doesn't matter what's in your divorce decree or custody agreement. You need to do it anyway. Not to do so is impolite and inconsiderate of your child.

Is everyone through shouting at each other? That's what all caps are like, and nobody shouted at you. We don't know you or give a fuck about your legal obligations or lack thereof under your divorce decree or custody arrangement because you do not speak for all parents or stepparents.

cidefi · November 2013

@Jen4948 you are right you don't know me as well as I don't know you. I CAPITALIZE words when I'm stressing a point, not shouting. But who cares why I do what I do, as long as you get to cuss at me about it...LoL.

You're again right, you may not care about the legalitis because its not the proper thing to do. But I do. You people get on here everyday giving advice on what's right and what's wrong. You belittle people for decisions they make for about their weddings. And I do completely understand that this is an Etiquette Board. That everybody isn't going to feel the I way do, and they don't have to. AND I'M OK WITH THAT (oh man big letters)!! But I will not stand by and watch THE KNOT make people feel obligated to do something on a MORAL LEVEL when they have LEGAL choices. Now you can correct me all day on how to host a reception, or how to pick out napkins. But this is a subject that I will not ever keep quiet on.

Parents can chose what to let their children particapate in. They can chose what details they decide (if any) to let the other parent know. NOBODY IS OBLIGATED to include said parent. And not including them does not hurt the child, unless dumb parents include their children in adult conversations. And I'm not talking from a MORAL or LEGAL pov, I'm speaking from truth. Some parents can't even stand to be in the same room, let alone talk to each other. This is 1 of the few topics that The Knot needs to look at from a real life point of view, not some stupid Etiquette high horse BS.

So thanks Jen4948 for not caring.

jlazgrl · November 2013

I have 2 FGs (ages 7 and 2) and they are being "escorted" down the aisle by my junior BMs just in case. I don't think there will be a problem, but if the 2 year old decides she doesn't want to walk, my junior BM will just carry her the rest of the way. (They are our daughters and I couldn't imagine not having both of them as FGs.)

Jen4948 · November 2013

FFS this is not about you or your legal obligations. It's hypocritical of you to expect anyone else to give a shit when you come out with both barrels blazing and shout that regardless of etiquette you only give a damn about your legal situation. That is neither what this thread nor this board nor this forum is about. You are not unique nor the arbiter of etiquette for every situation regarding weddings or the participation of children in them.

cidefi · November 2013

@Jen4948

BooBoo imma need you to climb down off that high ass horse you seem to be riding on...LoL...really. This is the 2nd time you've cussed at me. Now if you want to talk me like an adult, then we can continue. If not, then I would ask that you not respond to anything that I post anymore, and go on your merry ol' way. But if you cuss at me 1 more time, I will report you!!

With that being said, YOUR BEHAVIOR on this thread alone is the exact reason why I posted what I posted. When people feel disrespected, mistreated, or whatever they act exactly like you CHILDISH!! You and I don't agree on this. And your last 2 responses have involved you cussing directly at me. Now that's some real life BS that most DON'T want to put up with EVER!!! If you asked any woman on this thread if they wanted to deal with an attitude like yours when trying to tell their child(ren)'s father about them getting married, that they would honestly even tell them?? HHEELLLL NAW they wouldn't. No one would willingly put themselves through that. No woman would want to argue about or try to justify the particapation of her kid in her own wedding. Come on are you serious??? Please!!! I didn't come on here with my guns blazing. My 1st comment wasn't even about anything legal. I simply made a statement like I always do, and somebody else (not you) responded, in legal terms. I in turn responded with what I know to be true in the court system. You see a person cant tell me about family law. Its what i do for a living. You obviosly feel some kind of way about what I've said. But I don't comment with fairy tale fluff about how everbody should get along, or what the proper thing to do is. My comments are ALWAYS about real life situations. Its not my job to tell people that their being bad host for 1 reason or another. I do not judge at all ever because at the end of the day, it aint my wedding. Throughout this thread i have always said in every comment that I believe parents should communicate with each other. But that in real life that is not always possible. And I don't want anybody feeling like they have to include the other parent, because LEGALLY they don't, unless there are custody or visitation issues. So as I've said before, and always end up saying...if you don't like what I'm saying - skip it. You do not have to read it, but if you should, you don't have to respond.

Viczaesar · November 2013

cidefi said:

@Jen4948 BooBoo imma need you to climb down off that high ass horse you seem to be riding on...LoL...really. This is the 2nd time you've cussed at me. Now if you want to talk me like an adult, then we can continue. If not, then I would ask that you not respond to anything that I post anymore, and go on your merry ol' way. But if you cuss at me 1 more time, I will report you!! With that being said, YOUR BEHAVIOR on this thread alone is the exact reason why I posted what I posted. When people feel disrespected, mistreated, or whatever they act exactly like you CHILDISH!! You and I don't agree on this. And your last 2 responses have involved you cussing directly at me. Now that's some real life BS that most DON'T want to put up with EVER!!! If you asked any woman on this thread if they wanted to deal with an attitude like yours when trying to tell their child(ren)'s father about them getting married, that they would honestly even tell them?? HHEELLLL NAW they wouldn't. No one would willingly put themselves through that. No woman would want to argue about or try to justify the particapation of her kid in her own wedding. Come on are you serious??? Please!!! I didn't come on here with my guns blazing. My 1st comment wasn't even about anything legal. I simply made a statement like I always do, and somebody else (not you) responded, in legal terms. I in turn responded with what I know to be true in the court system. You see a person cant tell me about family law. Its what i do for a living. You obviosly feel some kind of way about what I've said. But I don't comment with fairy tale fluff about how everbody should get along, or what the proper thing to do is. My comments are ALWAYS about real life situations. Its not my job to tell people that their being bad host for 1 reason or another. I do not judge at all ever because at the end of the day, it aint my wedding. Throughout this thread i have always said in every comment that I believe parents should communicate with each other. But that in real life that is not always possible. And I don't want anybody feeling like they have to include the other parent, because LEGALLY they don't, unless there are custody or visitation issues. So as I've said before, and always end up saying...if you don't like what I'm saying - skip it. You do not have to read it, but if you should, you don't have to respond.

Hold up - you're complaining about someone not talking like an adult? Pot, meet Kettle.

PS, you need to do some research on the difference between cussing and cussing at someone. Nothing Jen posted could be considered a personal attack.

cidefi · November 2013

cidefi member
November 1
Why wouldn't you include your children/stepchildren in the ceremony? And why do I have to ask permission from the other parent for my children to be in my wedding?

Jen4948 member
November 1
First of all, the child might not want to participate-especially if they're shy or really close to the other parent. And since the other parent IS still the other parent of the child, all decisions regarding the child still need to be made with his/her input.

cidefi member
November 1
I disagree with that logic totally. The other parent should have no say so in the child's particapation what so ever. Now a child being shy or not wanting to be apart of the ceremony is a different story. But the other parent making decisions that effect my life is an absolute no no.

NYCBruin member
November 1 edited November 1
Getting married doesn't put a stop on your responsibilities as a parent. Major things should always be approved by both parents. A child participating in a ceremony is a major thing. Think about it this way, you would never have someone else's child participate as a FG/RB without the parents signing off. This is no different. It's also just weird to have kids participate. Weddings are legally binding ceremonies. It's inappropriate for kids to participate in the legal bonding of two consenting adults.

HisGirlFriday13 member
November 1
The legal system of America disagrees with you, FWIW. Most custody agreements involve the caveat that the parents will continue to co-parent. That means do things together. If you were still married to your child's father, would you make a unilateral decision that the kid could be in someone else's wedding, or could go to sleep-away camp, or do something else? No, you wouldn't (I hope; although if you say yes, that explains to me why you're divorced).

You have a kid together, you make decisions together, until that kid is 18 years old.

Jen4948 member
November 1
I call BS on this. I have a kid, their father is getting remarried? You bet your ass I get a say-just as if my kid is being asked to participate in anyone else's wedding. Getting a new stepparent does not automatically cancel out my parental rights, which include determining whether or not my kid participates in the wedding.

cidefi member
November 2
Ok 1st off let me say this. I am a state deputy clerk and have been a bench clerk in FAMILY COURT for almost 15 years. I am also in graduate school to become a Certified Clinical Social Worker, so before ANYBODY tries to tell me ANYTHING on this subject, know that I do this everyday for a living so theres not much anyone can tell me.

2nd there is no state statue in ANY STATE of the United States of America that requires the other parent be notifed when the other said parent is getting married UNLESS it is written in a court order rather it be in a sole or joint custody case.

THE LAW SAYS you can not dictate what happens in the other parents home what so ever. You can not keep said child(ren) away from the other parent for any reason. It is called Custodial Interference and it is against the law. You can go to jail and/or possibly lose your own custody rights. Now if some kind of abuse is going on, that's a different story. But for the sake of this thread, we will keep simple.

For example: I am a divorced mother to 3. I have joint custody with my ex-husband. He does not pay child support because we decided that each parent would take care of the children within their own households. We both live within our children's school district, so we switch off every Friday. Every other year we switch up claiming the children on our taxes (I also do taxes, so I know tax law too). All of this is written in our custody papers upon our divorce. We have no problems, we have no issues. Now when my ex-husband got re-married, his wedding fell on my weekend to have the kids. He called, I said yes they could go and there was no problem. LEGALLY I COULD HAVE SAID NO (and believe me I wanted to). BUT had they scheduled their wedding on their weekend...LEGALLY he would not have had to tell me anything at all. Now I believe in adults being adults. And I believe that parents need to communicate with each other, but not all adults can act like an adults. And in real life most people don't act like me and my ex-husband. Everybody confuses what we should do MORALLY with what we CAN do legally. And like it or not LEGALLY the other parent does not have to be notifed.

Jen4948 member
November 2 edited November 2
Sorry, cidefi, this is not about what you think the law says. This is about what etiquette says, which often does require things the law does not.

Etiquette does require that if the other parent is still in the child's life, it is not polite to exclude the other parent from decisions about their mutual child's participation in one parent's remarriage, regardless of whether or not it is legally required. So it doesn't matter what's in your divorce decree or custody agreement. You need to do it anyway. Not to do so is impolite and inconsiderate of your child.

Is everyone through shouting at each other? That's what all caps are like, and nobody shouted at you. We don't know you or give a fuck about your legal obligations or lack thereof under your divorce decree or custody arrangement because you do not speak for all parents or stepparents.

cidefi member
November 2
@Jen4948 you are right you don't know me as well as I don't know you. I CAPITALIZE words when I'm stressing a point, not shouting. But who cares why I do what I do, as long as you get to cuss at me about it...LoL.

You're again right, you may not care about the legalitis because its not the proper thing to do. But I do. You people get on here everyday giving advice on what's right and what's wrong. You belittle people for decisions they make for about their weddings. And I do completely understand that this is an Etiquette Board. That everybody isn't going to feel the I way do, and they don't have to. AND I'M OK WITH THAT (oh man big letters)!! But I will not stand by and watch THE KNOT make people feel obligated to do something on a MORAL LEVEL when they have LEGAL choices. Now you can correct me all day on how to host a reception, or how to pick out napkins. But this is a subject that I will not ever keep quiet on.

Parents can chose what to let their children particapate in. They can chose what details they decide (if any) to let the other parent know. NOBODY IS OBLIGATED to include said parent. And not including them does not hurt the child, unless dumb parents include their children in adult conversations. And I'm not talking from a MORAL or LEGAL pov, I'm speaking from truth. Some parents can't even stand to be in the same room, let alone talk to each other. This is 1 of the few topics that The Knot needs to look at from a real life point of view, not some stupid Etiquette high horse BS.

So thanks Jen4948 for not caring.

Jen4948 member
November 2
FFS this is not about you or your legal obligations. It's hypocritical of you to expect anyone else to give a shit when you come out with both barrels blazing and shout that regardless of etiquette you only give a damn about your legal situation. That is neither what this thread nor this board nor this forum is about. You are not unique nor the arbiter of etiquette for every situation regarding weddings or the participation of children in them.

cidefi member
November 2
@Jen4948

BooBoo imma need you to climb down off that high ass horse you seem to be riding on...LoL...really. This is the 2nd time you've cussed at me. Now if you want to talk me like an adult, then we can continue. If not, then I would ask that you not respond to anything that I post anymore, and go on your merry ol' way. But if you cuss at me 1 more time, I will report you!!

With that being said, YOUR BEHAVIOR on this thread alone is the exact reason why I posted what I posted. When people feel disrespected, mistreated, or whatever they act exactly like you CHILDISH!! You and I don't agree on this. And your last 2 responses have involved you cussing directly at me. Now that's some real life BS that most DON'T want to put up with EVER!!! If you asked any woman on this thread if they wanted to deal with an attitude like yours when trying to tell their child(ren)'s father about them getting married, that they would honestly even tell them?? HHEELLLL NAW they wouldn't. No one would willingly put themselves through that. No woman would want to argue about or try to justify the particapation of her kid in her own wedding. Come on are you serious??? Please!!! I didn't come on here with my guns blazing. My 1st comment wasn't even about anything legal. I simply made a statement like I always do, and somebody else (not you) responded, in legal terms. I in turn responded with what I know to be true in the court system. You see a person cant tell me about family law. Its what i do for a living. You obviosly feel some kind of way about what I've said. But I don't comment with fairy tale fluff about how everbody should get along, or what the proper thing to do is. My comments are ALWAYS about real life situations. Its not my job to tell people that their being bad host for 1 reason or another. I do not judge at all ever because at the end of the day, it aint my wedding. Throughout this thread i have always said in every comment that I believe parents should communicate with each other. But that in real life that is not always possible. And I don't want anybody feeling like they have to include the other parent, because LEGALLY they don't, unless there are custody or visitation issues. So as I've said before, and always end up saying...if you don't like what I'm saying - skip it. You do not have to read it, but if you should, you don't have to respond.

cidefi · November 2013

Hold up - you're complaining about someone not talking like an adult? Pot, meet Kettle.

PS, you need to do some research on the difference between cussing and cussing at someone. Nothing Jen posted could be considered a personal attack.

You don't think statements like this, aren't cussing at somebody? "We don't know you or give a fuck about your legal obligations or lack thereof under your divorce decree or custody arrangement because you do not speak for all parents or stepparents.". Hum, well I beg to differ. It wasn't like this statement: "It's hypocritical of you to expect anyone else to give a shit when you come out with both barrels blazing and shout that regardless of etiquette you only give a damn about your legal situation". BTW I know when I'm being cussed at, cussed out, or when cuss words are being used to make a point. Don't need your help, thanks ~

Viczaesar · November 2013

cidefi said:

Hold up - you're complaining about someone not talking like an adult? Pot, meet Kettle.

PS, you need to do some research on the difference between cussing and cussing at someone. Nothing Jen posted could be considered a personal attack.

You don't think statements like this, aren't cussing at somebody? "We don't know you or give a fuck about your legal obligations or lack thereof under your divorce decree or custody arrangement because you do not speak for all parents or stepparents.". Hum, well I beg to differ. It wasn't like this statement: "It's hypocritical of you to expect anyone else to give a shit when you come out with both barrels blazing and shout that regardless of etiquette you only give a damn about your legal situation". BTW I know when I'm being cussed at, cussed out, or when cuss words are being used to make a point. Don't need your help, thanks ~
---------------------------------------------------
No, it's not cussing at somebody. That would be like if she said "Fuck you, cidefi, we don't give a fuck about your legal obligations or lack thereof..." We are allowed to use cuss words on here, and clearly you don't actually know the difference. I'm not generally a Jen#s fan, but I haven't seen her posted anything that's against TOS. If you don't like using cuss words, you're free to choose not to use them.

cidefi · November 2013

Well that's where you and I disagree. And regardless of if she was cussing directly at me or not, it was rude and very uncalled for. I had not spoken to her in that manner at that point, I would like to not ever be spoken to like that. Respect is given when respect is do. Now if wanna get on here and act like an ass, then that's on you. But you will not get on here and act like an ass toward me ever, because I will report you. What's tolerable behavior to you might not be to me. And if you can't be grown enough to have a civil disagreement online, then maybe you ought to not be online. I've said my peace and now I'm going to bed. You Knottie brides have a great Sunday ~

Viczaesar · November 2013

cidefi said:

Well that's where you and I disagree. And regardless of if she was cussing directly at me or not, it was rude and very uncalled for. I had not spoken to her in that manner at that point, I would like to not ever be spoken to like that. Respect is given when respect is do. Now if wanna get on here and act like an ass, then that's on you. But you will not get on here and act like an ass toward me ever, because I will report you. What's tolerable behavior to you might not be to me. And if you can't be grown enough to have a civil disagreement online, then maybe you ought to not be online. I've said my peace and now I'm going to bed. You Knottie brides have a great Sunday ~

Who the hell cares if you report her since she didn't break any rules? Report away. And again, pot-kettle on people acting like an ass.

cidefi · November 2013

Why are you even commenting on something that doesn't even concern you, that wasn't directed at you, or even about you? What difference does it make it you?

Viczaesar · November 2013

Why not?

Jen4948 · November 2013

cidefi said:

Why are you even commenting on something that doesn't even concern you, that wasn't directed at you, or even about you? What difference does it make it you?

Because the forum and all threads are open to everyone for comment.

artbyallie · November 2013

@cidefi, it is commonly accepted netiquette that capitalizing words is equivalent to shouting and has been ever since computers were actually capable of using something besides all-caps. And in that whole huge block of quotes you posted, Jen used only three phrases that even contained adult language: 'give a shit,' 'give a damn,' and 'give a fuck.' That is not cussing at you. Cussing at you would be calling you a bitch or saying 'fuck you.' Cussing in context is perfectly allowable as per the forum rules.

TheKnot positions on kid participation in weddings

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