.

vt&dt · December 2013

OP, I am sorry that you're in this difficult situation.

As someone who called off a planned wedding less than 3 weeks out (several years ago, now engaged to absolutely the best guy I could imagine..) - keep in mind that postponing or calling off a wedding is so much better than going into a commitment without being fully ready, confident, or sure.

I can't say if that's the way to go for your situation - but I've been there, it was tough, but I'm so much better off now.

My other piece of advice: if the conversations you have with your FI get too heated/angry/accusatory or if you feel like he isn't able to really listen - I'd do what NYCBruin said and collect and write down your thoughts, but then leave him a letter. That may let him understand how serious this is, and give him a chance to collect his own thoughts before talking about it.

Wishing you the best - just know that whatever happens, you will be OK.

Amyzen83 · December 2013

I like the letter idea, I can't always collect my thoughts and communicate the way I intend especially if I'm upset or emotional! OP, there are always going to be catty b---ch women who don't know their boundaries, I've struggled with jealousy myself with a former co-worker of my FI's, and nobody crossed any lines and they were strictly work friends, this woman offered to teach my FI how to drive a stick because she owned one and he's been dying to learn so he could eventually get a sports car. I felt completely uncomfortable with the idea because I did not want him to build any sort of friendship/relationship with this woman based on the fact that I barely knew her, and therefore had no trust in her.

I told my FI, that I may be feeling irrational because he had never done anything to make me distrust him, and I can't explain it or feel justified, but I flat out didn't like the idea of him alone with another woman. He listened to me and although disappointed that he'd have to find another person to learn from although she was the only friend willing to teach him, his relationship with me and my trust was more important. I felt horrible that I was preventing him from learning but I tried to find friends I trusted to teach him. The point is, that he listened to my feelings not matter how reasonable or how crazy I must have sounded, and he valued me enough to not go through with it.

OP, it sounds like your FI cares more about his friend on the side and his own feelings than he does yours, especially since you do have basis to be concerned. I see this as a huge red flag and would seriously consider whether this is someone you truly want to spend the rest of your life with. Things are not going to get better just because you have the wedding ring, these issues need to be resolved ASAP. Lets say everything is innocent between him and this chick, the main issue is that he doesn't listen to you. That's huge!

lissag1285 · December 2013

I love this. Again, he listened to my concern and even stopped talking to her when we first started dating. But ever since we got engaged she's all of a sudden his best friend again? I just can't let this go. It's not ok. He is not listening to me. I talked him into seeing a couples therapist. I hope that this helps. Because I am not walking down the Isle hating him. This is an aweful time to make mad.

Sounds like you have a great guy. You just can't trust some woman. There are shady people out there. And my gut kills me every time her name comes up. I don't trust her.

Thanks for all the in site everyone.

clarke10 · December 2013

In addition to seeing a therapist, has he agreed to limit his exposure to her or attempt to set some boundaries?

zitiqueen · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

I love this. Again, he listened to my concern and even stopped talking to her when we first started dating. But ever since we got engaged she's all of a sudden his best friend again? I just can't let this go. It's not ok. He is not listening to me. I talked him into seeing a couples therapist. I hope that this helps. Because I am not walking down the Isle hating him. This is an aweful time to make mad. Sounds like you have a great guy. You just can't trust some woman. There are shady people out there. And my gut kills me every time her name comes up. I don't trust her. Thanks for all the in site everyone.

You can't trust some men either. For instance, the one you're going to marry. Why are you putting all of the blame on her?

lissag1285 · December 2013

He wont. That's the biggest problem.

clarke10 · December 2013

Seeing a therapist isn't going to change anything if he won't stop the behavior that is causing the problem. He's basically telling you before you even step foot in therapy that he has no intention of changing.

You need to call off that wedding.

southernbelle0915 · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

He wont. That's the biggest problem.

Lissag - sorry, but if he won't stop spending so much time and energy on this ex of his, I don't think couple's therapy is going to do a damn thing. Even if he did, do you really think you could resolve all of this emotionally in the next 39 days and walk down the aisle without any doubts? I know I couldn't.

I really think you should delay the wedding. It doesn't mean you're calling it off indefinitely, but just until you two have this stuff worked out. It seems really drastic, embarrassing and you'll definitely lose money, but take it from the women who've posted here and said all that was or would have been worth it.

ETA: I think it's great he's agreed to do couples therapy. Definitely. But I just don't know if you can get an issue this deep fully resolved to the point of getting married in less than 2 months.

climbingsingle · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

He wont. That's the biggest problem.

So he flat out refuses to cut off contact with this girl, knowing how you feel? Wow. I'm sorry. You should cancel the wedding. There are more fish in the sea. Fish that will treat you with respect. Your FI clearly doesn't respect you at all.

PrettyGirlLost · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

I love this. Again, he listened to my concern and even stopped talking to her when we first started dating. But ever since we got engaged she's all of a sudden his best friend again? I just can't let this go. It's not ok. He is not listening to me. I talked him into seeing a couples therapist. That's a start at least. I hope that this helps. Because I am not walking down the Isle hating him. Honestly I don't think you should walk down the aisle with him, period at this point. This is an aweful time to make mad. Sounds like you have a great guy. You just can't trust some woman. Um, you can't trust some men either- namely your FI, which is why you created this post in the first place. It takes two people to have an affair. There are shady people out there. And my gut kills me every time her name comes up. I don't trust her. She isn't the problem, your FI is. He is the one refusing to set boundaries with his ex, he is the one refusing to take your concerns and discomfort seriously, he is the one that is choosing to place his relationship with his ex above his relationship with you. And YOU need to start recognizing that, and stop deflecting so much blame onto his ex. I think you are in denial over just how mush of an ass your FI is being, and so it is easier to blame his ex for everything. It's easier to convince yourself that if you can just get your FI to cut his ex out of his life, everything will be ok. But the problem is that it is HIS behavior that is the heart of the issue, and I do not think he is going to change. I would seriously postpone this wedding. Thanks for all the in site everyone.

clarke10 said:

In addition to seeing a therapist, has he agreed to limit his exposure to her or attempt to set some boundaries?

^This. If he is not on board with doing this, there is no point in going to therapy or getting married. I think he is trying to placate you, not trying to fix his relationship with you. I think it might be better for you initially to see a therapist on your own.

lissag1285 said:

He wont. That's the biggest problem.

clarke10 said:

Seeing a therapist isn't going to change anything if he won't stop the behavior that is causing the problem. He's basically telling you before you even step foot in therapy that he has no intention of changing.

You need to call off that wedding.

^ All of this! If your FI hasn't truly changed his behavior in 5 years, I'm sorry but there is probably no way in hell he is going to just because you have a set of rings on your finger. Do not proceed with this marriage at this time. Seek individual counseling and couples counseling 1st.

vt&dt · December 2013

I think you've gotten a lot of good advice.

It's good that he has agreed to go to a therapist with you - but I think you're at the point where, if by hearing the same thing from the therapist (I'm fairly certain they will agree that married couples need to have an understanding of how they are to act with the opposite sex to avoid situations like this) - if an objective 3rd party can't convince him either, I would probably walk away if I were in your shoes.

I love the line from the traditional marriage vows "forsaking all others" - your FI is NOT at this point for you, and I think you both should be there when you start a marriage.

TheBaysideBride · December 2013

I'm sorry you're dealing with this now.

I was in a bit of the reverse situation -- I had two exes who I was still close with when DH and I started dating. He was not comfortable w/ our friendships, and we had it out a few times over me wanting to spend time w/ them, and later invite them to the wedding.

Finally at some point I realized these two exes are very minor in my life, and DH is major. And if something makes him uncomfortable (even if I can argue WHY he should not feel that way), the bottom line is that he and our relationship is infinitely more important to me than these people from my single days. I see them rarely now and they weren't invited to the wedding, and it was totally the right thing to do, for me. And he didn't invite certain exes from his life that I don't feel totally comfortable around.

I hope your FI comes to his senses. Does he have any smart married male friends who could talk to him?

TheBaysideBride · December 2013

one piece of advice - when you see the therapist, do not use him/her as a referee for this fight - barely mention the girl -- the issue is that you told FI something bothers you, and he is disregarding your feelings. Stay focused on that. It's tempting to get third parties to declare someone "Right" but a) a good therapist won't and b) it doesn't solve the longterm problem.

Amyzen83 · December 2013

TheBaysideBride that's very good advice! I think in the end single girl will act however inappropriately she wants because it's clear she's desperately trying to cling to something that should be well in the past. The issue is the fact that your fiance still won't set boundaries and it's really not fair to either of you.

a) He's not forsaking all other relationships and giving you his 100%
b) He's only fueling this desperate chick's false hope.
c) I'm glad he's seeking to go to counseling with you, it's not going to be enough if he isn't proactively trying to change his behavior.
d) Getting married on your wedding date won't solve this problem, it will only make it worse because you'll be stuck with him unless you go through a messy divorce, and he may even neglect your feelings even more.

OP, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this, and so close to your day, but you gotta think lifelong. Are you really willing to continue to put up with this painful cycle of being treated as 2nd place and having to share your husband's time with this b---ch?

jdluvr06 · December 2013

OP you have received some really great advice here and I can't add anything to it, other than I would consider postponing the wedding.

Lavender123 · December 2013

I know this seems like a controversial viewpoint based on other advice - but if you ALREADY need therapy after 5 years together and not even married yet, is this really going to last a life-time anyway?

I get if you've been married 20 years and have kids etc. you may forgive cheating or a relationship so fractured you need outside intervention.. but you're not married yet. I can't imagine why people forgive these things, if he truly loved you he would respect your feelings regardless of whatever he is experiencing emotionally.

You said you don't want to walk down the aisle hating him - why on earth are you even considering doing that? Are you just that fixated on getting married at this point? Do you even still have the same feelings for him as you did, considering how he has been treating you?

Amyzen83 · December 2013

@lavender123 you bring up a lot of great points but I feel I must point out that most couples especially those in healthy relationships do premarital counseling. It's even strongly advised because it's a great way to know if your relationship is on the right track to a healthy happy marriage. I do agree that this issue is long over due & it sounds like fi is finally willing to do the therapy thing but I'm wondering if it's almost too little too late.

SP29 · December 2013

Some great advice given so far. I fully agree that emotional cheating is just as bad (if not worse, to me) than physical cheating. I also agree you should listen to your gut.

I think the counselling is a good start, but I would still considering post-poning the wedding.

Also, the problem you have isn't an ex-gf problem, it's a fiance problem.

Yes, you can hate her all you want. Yes, she's overtly making passes at your FI and that's not cool.

BUT- your FI should be man enough to tell her this is not OK and either set boundaries or end the friendship. It's up to him to deal with this, not for the ex-gf to get a clue and piss off on her own.

I agree that even if this ex does go away it doesn't change the fact that he has not changed and this could happen with someone else. Yes, bring up an issue if you have one, but you shouldn't have to nag him about it or beg him to do anything. Take away the ex- he is plain disrespecting your feelings and not putting you first.

Good luck with everything. I can understand how this is an upsetting experience for you. I only hope you take care of yourself first and do what needs to be done.

Lavender123 · December 2013

Amyzen83 said:

@lavender123 you bring up a lot of great points but I feel I must point out that most couples especially those in healthy relationships do premarital counseling. It's even strongly advised because it's a great way to know if your relationship is on the right track to a healthy happy marriage. I do agree that this issue is long over due & it sounds like fi is finally willing to do the therapy thing but I'm wondering if it's almost too little too late.

Yes I completely agree with it being beneficial in healthy relationships to ensure you're on the same page - never hurts to be too sure you're right for each other! However, I wouldn't compare premarital counselling to "our relationship is so bad that we need outside help" counselling... and the latter is not something i'd want to be going through with someone i'm not even married to yet. Then again, I wouldn't forgive my FI if he cheated either and I know some people who have/would, so mine is clearly a very personal opinion.

Amyzen83 · December 2013

Gotcha! Yea I understand what you mean! Love and relationships do take work to maintain married or not but then are definately issues that I consider to be deal breakers and cheating is the number 1 deal breaker.

Vivandiere8 · December 2013

This man sounds like a guy who is havering second thoughts about getting married. It's almost like he's daring you try and do something about it so that he can tell everyone the reason it was called off was because you were paranoid and controlling and he was just being himself. This move seems extremely passive aggressive to me.

LondonLisa · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

From what I see/ have noticed she jokes about sex all the time, she is very touchy feely, she is in constant communication with him. Always texting and calling. Posting pictures of them on facebook, always writing on his wall. Completely ignores me when its me and him that enter a room. It's a long list of things. I just don't trust her.

This is one of the biggest things we have ever fought about the whole 5 years we have been together. We have a very strong relationship. We were friends for 5 years before we started dating. So emotional background is very important to him which scares me the most with them.

I think the main issue is you don't trust HIM (him being your fiance). You don't have to trust her. A relationship is about knowing that if she made a pass at him, he would brush her off and draw a strict line. As everyone else has said, this is a fi problem and I second delaying the wedding. This isn't something that will get solved in a month. You should only get married if you know 100% that if any person (even this woman) ever came on to him/ crossed the line, he would stop it right there. Otherwise, it is playing with fire- you are always going to wonder when he has to work late if he really is in the office. Or if he has a text message, who it really is from. I hate to say it but if you think it is bad now, it will just play on your sanity on the long run. I'm glad he agreed to go to therapy, but I would either postpone the wedding until you trust him 100% or call it off because you don't feel in your gut that you can. I'm sorry you are going through this!

hoffse · December 2013

Well having been on the opposite side of this, I suspect you might be overreacting just a bit, OP. I have an ex that I'm very close friends with. He was a year ahead of me in college and again in law school. We dated for a time but broke up mutually, and we're still very good friends. He even mentored me in law school when I was trying to figure things out. We had a mutual friend die in a accident a couple years ago. In fact, he called me to break the news because he didn't want me hearing it from somebody else. After that event we drank together, grieved together, and helped each other move on from that. Frankly, my H wasn't particularly helpful during that grieving process because he didn't know the person and my ex did. My H wisely gave me space to lean on a friend who was going through the same things I was.

You know what? I invited him AND HIS FIANCE to my wedding in April. He invited me AND MY HUSBAND to his wedding in June. We gchat and email all the time still because we're friends and like to keep up with what's going on in each other's lives. Our spouses know our history and they're fine with it. We've all met each other, and we all get along just fine.

I don't know if that's what's going on here. But I would have had a hard time if my H acted very jealous about this other friend of mine. We have done nothing wrong, and I would have felt attacked if he didn't trust me to keep the boundaries in place. If my H asked me to choose one or the other, I would obviously choose my H... but then I would resent him for a long looooong time after that for making me choose. He knows that and he would never do that to me.

All that said, I don't know what's going on in your situation. We are hearing one side, and it is your perception of a relationship that you're not too involved with. It sounds like regardless of what's happening you won't be able to give your H the benefit of the doubt that he can maintain an honest friendship with this girl (and maybe you're right - maybe he can't). I wouldn't get married to him feeling that way. It's a huge HUGE red flag. It will eat at you from the inside, and it will make your H feel resentful if you continue to bring it up and he's honestly not doing anything wrong. And if he IS doing something wrong, then you don't want to be married to him anyway.

NYCBruin · December 2013

hoffse said:

Well having been on the opposite side of this, I suspect you might be overreacting just a bit, OP. I have an ex that I'm very close friends with. He was a year ahead of me in college and again in law school. We dated for a time but broke up mutually, and we're still very good friends. He even mentored me in law school when I was trying to figure things out. We had a mutual friend die in a accident a couple years ago. In fact, he called me to break the news because he didn't want me hearing it from somebody else. After that event we drank together, grieved together, and helped each other move on from that. Frankly, my H wasn't particularly helpful during that grieving process because he didn't know the person and my ex did. My H wisely gave me space to lean on a friend who was going through the same things I was.

You know what? I invited him AND HIS FIANCE to my wedding in April. He invited me AND MY HUSBAND to his wedding in June. We gchat and email all the time still because we're friends and like to keep up with what's going on in each other's lives. Our spouses know our history and they're fine with it. We've all met each other, and we all get along just fine.

I don't know if that's what's going on here. But I would have had a hard time if my H acted very jealous about this other friend of mine. We have done nothing wrong, and I would have felt attacked if he didn't trust me to keep the boundaries in place. If my H asked me to choose one or the other, I would obviously choose my H... but then I would resent him for a long looooong time after that for making me choose. He knows that and he would never do that to me.

All that said, I don't know what's going on in your situation. We are hearing one side, and it is your perception of a relationship that you're not too involved with. It sounds like regardless of what's happening you won't be able to give your H the benefit of the doubt that he can maintain an honest friendship with this girl (and maybe you're right - maybe he can't). I wouldn't get married to him feeling that way. It's a huge HUGE red flag. It will eat at you from the inside, and it will make your H feel resentful if you continue to bring it up and he's honestly not doing anything wrong. And if he IS doing something wrong, then you don't want to be married to him anyway.

I think your particular situation is very different from the OPs. The OP has said that this woman flat out ignores her and jokes with her FI about sex. The OP and her FI also have a history of this being an "issue" in their relationship, and at an earlier point in time her FI even agreed to cut down contact with this woman. Just the fact that you said that in your situation everyone gets along (meaning the spouses) really differentiates your situation.

Of course there are lots of people who are friends with ex's, have healthy friendships with them. But that isn't always the case. For every story like yours, there's probably another story where the friendship veered into the territory of emotional affairs.

No one has suggested that OP tell her FI that he has to cut off contact with this woman, but if she's voiced her concerns and he's not even willing to talk about it/set some boundaries with this woman, it's a problem.

aurorajanette · December 2013

lissag1285 said:

I love this. Again, he listened to my concern and even stopped talking to her when we first started dating. But ever since we got engaged she's all of a sudden his best friend again? I just can't let this go. It's not ok. He is not listening to me. I talked him into seeing a couples therapist. I hope that this helps. Because I am not walking down the Isle hating him. This is an aweful time to make mad. Sounds like you have a great guy. You just can't trust some woman. There are shady people out there. And my gut kills me every time her name comes up. I don't trust her. Thanks for all the in site everyone.

Okay, now what I'm going to say may be controversial, and I am in no way sticking up for this person, but I do think that you really need to consider the other side of the story. Things are not always as they seem.

A few years ago, a really good friend of mine who happened to be male, kissed me at a party when we were both drunk. I was single, but he was living with his gf at the time. It didn't go further than that. I put a stop to it, and made a decision to not hang out with this guy again when we were drinking. However, a few months later I had some friends over, everyone left at the end of the night, and he stayed. He made a pass at me (there was no alcohol involved here), and I made him leave my home. I explained to him that it made me feel uncomfortable, and he had a gf, and if he wasn't happy with her then I suggest they break up instead of him cheating on her. I refused to hang out with him after that, except when we would see each other at events for mutual friends, but I always made sure we were never alone together. I got texts from him almost daily, that I ignored. I would get phone calls in the middle of the night, and he even showed up at my door a few times uninvited.

Never did I act like I wanted any of this.

However, about 2 or 3 months into this, I got an angry gf calling me on the phone calling me a whore who lured her bf into cheating. Apparently she had looked at his call logs on his phone, and saw that he kept calling me in the middle of the night. When he got caught and she got upset, it became all my fault, and I was the evil slut who was trying to sleep with her man, because she didn't want to face the fact that her bf was doing this to her.

It completely ruined our friendship, which is better off anyway. And I forgive the girl for all of the death threats and names she called me. I understand how upset she was. I have been cheated on too.

The moral of the story is, if cheating does occur, it is the fault of both people. It is not the fault of the "shady" woman only. While it's wrong if she is pursuing him, she's not in the relationship with you, he is, and he needs to be the one to respect that. Again, not saying she holds no responsibility, but sometimes things are different than they seem. To my ex-friend's gf, I was the shady, evil woman, when in reality I had done nothing but push him away from me and ignore him.

Good luck with everything. It is an awful feeling to not be able to trust the person you love.

Lavender123 · December 2013

aurorajanette said:

To my ex-friend's gf, I was the shady, evil woman, when in reality I had done nothing but push him away from me and ignore him.

Yes!! Why do women always blame the other woman - she has no obligation to you, it is your husband/boyfriend/FI/whatever who does and who ruined that.. I know it's easier than blaming someone you love and admitting they may not love you back but that's only a short-term solution and helps no one.

clarke10 · December 2013

scribe95 said:

Just to play devil's advocate a bit I am trying to see this from FI's side.

I agree he should respect her feelings. But is she respecting his? It's a two-way street. This is a person he clearly wants in his life for whatever reason. Does she trust him or not? I mean if he has done nothing wrong then I can see where he is feeling punished for no reason. Having said that he should not refuse to go to counseling. It could help them both.

Ditto this. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have or SO not trust you when you haven't done anything to lose their trust.

Amyzen83 · December 2013

That's a very good argument but the fact that this other woman is blatantly flirting and acting inappropriately are grounds for concern to the op. Granted it is possible that fi hasn't acted on friends advances so he feels in the clear, however the fact that he hasn't told his friend to stop the behavior because it pisses off hi fi is a huge problem. I'm sorry but fiancé's wishes need to be taken into consideration here, or at least reassured not ignored and disregarded.

arrippa · December 2013

I read all the PP's and you have gotten some great advice. At this point, my issue is not with the girl but your FI's reaction to your concerns. I think that is the bigger problem. Marriage is a life long commitment with many obstacles and problems. I hope you and your FI is equipped to deal with them. If it's not this girl, it will be another problem. I think learning how to deal with issues should be your main concern. Not this girl.

PrettyGirlLost · December 2013

clarke10 said:

scribe95 said:

Just to play devil's advocate a bit I am trying to see this from FI's side.

I agree he should respect her feelings. But is she respecting his? It's a two-way street. This is a person he clearly wants in his life for whatever reason. Does she trust him or not? I mean if he has done nothing wrong then I can see where he is feeling punished for no reason. Having said that he should not refuse to go to counseling. It could help them both.

Ditto this. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have or SO not trust you when you haven't done anything to lose their trust.

Thank you both for these points, I think they are good and valid. I'm just not sure I'm with you on them.

He might not have had sex with his ex yet, but I think he has done a lot that is wrong in their relationship, given what limited info we have.

He doesn't seem to have set any boundaries with his ex in regards to her constant sexual banter towards him, which makes his FI uncomfortable. . . I'd say that is wrong.

OP claims that her FI refuses to set boundaries with his ex in general, or limit his contact with her, even after making him aware that his relationship with his ex bothers her. . . and this has been going on for 5 years. . . I'd say that is wrong.

Sure, we don't have his side of the story, and OP may have jealousy issues, but it doesn't seem to me that her FI has really done anything to assuage her fears or make her feel that their relationship together has priority over his relationship with his ex.

.

Re: .

Choose Another Board

Search Boards