RSVP Ridiculous?

crisscrossKG · December 2013

I respectfully disagree that by sending out invitations or even save the dates early that I am trying to aggressively stratify everyone and that it's a personal attack.

I try to do everything ahead of time from engagement pictures to term papers to save the dates to the dress to flowers to invitations (which it's not like I'm sending them out tomorrow or anything) and have everything non-people related finalized months in advance even though it may not be the tradition timeline. The guests can still send back their RSVP replies whenever they want, they will just receive the "where, what time, and how to get there, and specifics" earlier is all.

Situationally, I have a couple options. I can invite only the family members who I have right now and not be able to invite many college friends who I would love to have come if there were more space/resources. If the family members I am obligated to invite RSVP that they aren't coming I still don't have friends who were able to come. Or I can invite all of the family members who I have right now and not invite many college friends who I would love to have come if there were more space/resources. If the family members I am obligated to invite RSVP that they are coming I can invite my friends who I would have liked to have come since now I know that there are space/resources to give them. Alternatively I can not invite the family members I am obligated to and then offend FI's family, my family, and then family reunions would be awkward and uncomfortable for the rest of married life,

ETA: At least by knowing that the obligatory family members are not coming I am able to invite people I would like to have come, since if I am inviting anyone it is because I care about them and would like to have them celebrate with me. Except for obligatory family invites, since I don't know a good portion of extended family.

AddieCake · December 2013

Oh, FFS. I give up.

manateehugger · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

I respectfully disagree that by sending out invitations or even save the dates early that I am trying to aggressively stratify everyone and that it's a personal attack.

I try to do everything ahead of time from engagement pictures to term papers to save the dates to the dress to flowers to invitations (which it's not like I'm sending them out tomorrow or anything) and have everything non-people related finalized months in advance even though it may not be the tradition timeline. The guests can still send back their RSVP replies whenever they want, they will just receive the "where, what time, and how to get there, and specifics" earlier is all.

Situationally, I have a couple options. I can invite only the family members who I have right now and not be able to invite many college friends who I would love to have come if there were more space/resources. If the family members I am obligated to invite RSVP that they aren't coming I still don't have friends who were able to come. Or I can invite all of the family members who I have right now and not invite many college friends who I would love to have come if there were more space/resources. If the family members I am obligated to invite RSVP that they are coming I can invite my friends who I would have liked to have come since now I know that there are space/resources to give them. Alternatively I can not invite the family members I am obligated to and then offend FI's family, my family, and then family reunions would be awkward and uncomfortable for the rest of married life,

Sending out invitations early isn't rude, per se, it just increases the likelihood that people will forget to RSVP or forget about the wedding period. You can do things as early as you like, but you cannot force people to fit into your schedule. Their worlds do not revolve around you and your wedding. When are you setting your RSVP date? When do you have to give your caterer a final count? I don't understand how you could even pull your rude b-list off without requiring very early RSVP's. Unless you plan to just call people up in the weeks leading to your wedding and say, "Hey, you can come if you want now."

Your options are to plan a cheaper wedding where you can accommodate everyone you'd like, or you plan a wedding you want and invite your priority friends and family and leave it at that.

Have you had a conversation with your FI about what family you want to invite? Who is paying for your wedding?

ETA: IMO, there are no "obligatory" family members unless someone who is funding your wedding says they have to be there. If you're so put out by having these people at your wedding, why would you even attend family reunions or spend holidays with them?

MGP · December 2013

AddieL73 said:
Oh, FFS. I give up.

Totally.

OP - between your plans to cheap out on food and B list I hope you are prepared to not have many friends after your wedding.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

My parents are paying for the VAST majority of the wedding. I have a couple part time jobs at college that pay for gas to my internship and my fiance has a couple jobs that go toward student loan payoffs so the two of us are tight on money. In our EDIT: (my family's) culture the family of the bride get a HUGE say in everything and especially in our family the parents make a lot of decisions. And just generally, the people footing the bill are the people that call most of the shots when it comes to finances like numbers and head counts. That's just life, so everyone has to learn to work within the context of what they have to work with. It is a non-negotiable string attached that all family members are invited, and my fiance also feels strongly about honoring the family that way since it is a cultural and family value.

Once all family members are invited from both sides, then anyone else up to the limit number we can invite our friends. The problem is that number of friends we can invite is very small before we reach the limit number, so if I see that a lot of my parents' guests aren't coming I definitely want to snatch up the potential to invite more of my friends.

Haven't decided on how early to send out RSVPs, but knowing how my side of the family is there will likely be a lot of quick responses. Guests can however send them in as close as two weeks to the wedding.

ETA: I guess if it has to be boiled down to a point of oversimplifying, the A-list is family, B-list is my fiance's and my friends. All family has to be invited first and foremost out of obligation, but I want to do everything I can to invite as many of my friends as I can to share in the special day with me. So I will do whatever I can to do that.

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:
My parents are paying for the VAST majority of the wedding. I have a couple part time jobs at college that pay for gas to my internship and my fiance has a couple jobs that go toward student loan payoffs so the two of us are tight on money. In our EDIT: (my family's) culture the family of the bride get a HUGE say in everything and especially in our family the parents make a lot of decisions. And just generally, the people footing the bill are the people that call most of the shots when it comes to finances like numbers and head counts. That's just life, so everyone has to learn to work within the context of what they have to work with. It is a non-negotiable string attached that all family members are invited, and my fiance also feels strongly about honoring the family that way since it is a cultural and family value.

Once all family members are invited from both sides, then anyone else up to the limit number we can invite our friends. The problem is that number of friends we can invite is very small before we reach the limit number, so if I see that a lot of my parents' guests aren't coming I definitely want to snatch up the potential to invite more of my friends.

Haven't decided on how early to send out RSVPs, but knowing how my side of the family is there will likely be a lot of quick responses. Guests can however send them in as close as two weeks to the wedding.

I realise there is no talking you out of this, but this is seriously rude, and you will offend people.

Also, if your parents are still calling a lot of the shots, I question whether you're ready to get married.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

@MGP there will be plenty of food. It is a matter of having extra to have a cushion, plus even more extra. It's the even more extra that is being planned for that sparked the RSVP issue.

@PDKH I don't feel put out by having them there at all. I am fine with having tons of people at my wedding. It does make it challenging when there's a limit on people and there are strings attached that all family has to be invited. But that is something I am at peace with working around. At the end of the day despite how frustrating and trying a family can be, family is always family.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

I'm seeing a lot of cultural differences here that I see may be causing a lot of misunderstanding.

From my family of origin, it is more of a collectivist mentality, where until you are married your family calls a lot of the shots. In American culture, it is more of an independent thing where individuality and doing your own thing regardless of family input is praised.

AddieCake · December 2013

I don't know why you keep re explaining your B list as if we're the ones not understanding something in this conversation. You go ahead with your B list. You're clearly a special snowflake, and so I'm sure all the people invited to your wedding will be fine with your rudeness.

phira · December 2013

Yeah, I'm giving up.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

I'm sorry you feel that way about me. I would love to continue the conversation more if you would like to explain it differently.

Right now I am seeing this as a grey area issue as opposed to a black and white "rude or not rude" issue. I do not see eye to eye with the idea that me inviting more of my friends who I would like to see come because my parents' guests couldn't make it is as rude as it is being made out to be. <--not sure why the font changed randomly..

manateehugger · December 2013

Nope, I'm done too. If you can't understand why treating your friends like poo is rude, I can't keep going here.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

What I am understanding so far is that the suggestion is to choose not to invite anyone that can't fit in the original guest list (the one where all family is invited and only a few friends are able to be squeezed in). And if that means I can't have a bunch of friends then too bad. And if that means if half the people my parents invited don't end up coming, too bad.

Am I understanding that correctly?

manateehugger · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

What I am understanding so far is that the suggestion is to choose not to invite anyone that can't fit in the original guest list (the one where all family is invited and only a few friends are able to be squeezed in). And if that means I can't have a bunch of friends then too bad. And if that means if half the people my parents invited don't end up coming, too bad.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Look - you invite people equally. You don't give people "in case someone else declines" invitations. That's saying they don't matter. Here's what you do:

1. Take your parents' money, invite the obligatory family and regrettably don't invite everyone you'd like (which, by the way, pretty much everyone here has dealt with not inviting everyone they'd like).

2. Politely refuse your parents' money, pay entirely for your own wedding, invite who you want and can afford, not including obligatory family.

Look, I get that it sucks. A huge chunk of our guest list are FI's family members I've never met, but we are accepting a donation from them toward our wedding budget, so yes, those family members are invited and yes, some of our college friends are not. But we decided we wanted a nicer wedding, and if that meant fewer college friends, we figured that was ok. We aren't being rude to our friends by saying "We wanted a really nice wedding paid for by our parents and therefore couldn't invite you in the beginning, but someone said no, so now you can come! Don't feel like an honored guest?!"

I have to ask - how many weddings have you attended and how old are you?

ETA: I missed the part where you sent STD's. Anyone who got a STD has to get an invitation now, no exceptions. Did you send your college friends STDs?

huskypuppy14 · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

What I am understanding so far is that the suggestion is to choose not to invite anyone that can't fit in the original guest list (the one where all family is invited and only a few friends are able to be squeezed in). And if that means I can't have a bunch of friends then too bad. And if that means if half the people my parents invited don't end up coming, too bad.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Are you inviting any friends in the original guest list? It's pretty shitty of your parents to invite 250 people that doesn't even include any of the bride and grooms friends IMHO. But if you are not going to stand up to them, that's on you. You really should discuss this with them.

Basically, it's rude to invite more people when other people RSVP no. If you sent save the dates, you may get people who say they can't come, that doesn't mean you can't invite more people at a later date. However, you still have to send invitations to everyone you sent STD to even if they said they couldn't come.

If you send invitations to the original list and then after some people officially RSVP no, you send more invitations to your friends, that is rude. Now you can do whatever you want, but no one here is going to condone that.

mrsbizzz · December 2013

laurynm84 said:

crisscrossKG said:

What I am understanding so far is that the suggestion is to choose not to invite anyone that can't fit in the original guest list (the one where all family is invited and only a few friends are able to be squeezed in). And if that means I can't have a bunch of friends then too bad. And if that means if half the people my parents invited don't end up coming, too bad.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Are you inviting any friends in the original guest list? It's pretty shitty of your parents to invite 250 people that doesn't even include any of the bride and grooms friends IMHO. But if you are not going to stand up to them, that's on you. You really should discuss this with them.

Basically, it's rude to invite more people when other people RSVP no. If you sent save the dates, you may get people who say they can't come, that doesn't mean you can't invite more people at a later date. However, you still have to send invitations to everyone you sent STD to even if they said they couldn't come.

If you send invitations to the original list and then after some people officially RSVP no, you send more invitations to your friends, that is rude. Now you can do whatever you want, but no one here is going to condone that.

Exactly. If these friends are so important to have there that you are willing to b-list them, why didn't you ask your parents for an allotment of friends in the original guest count/list. Just because they are paying for most of the wedding doesn't mean that they shouldn't at least consider your wishes on the biggest day of YOUR life.

WildMagelet · December 2013

OP, I get that you want to invite your friends, but planning a wedding (especially when you're trying to be budget savvy) includes making tough choices.

What we're simply telling you its if you're planning on physically sending invites to your family, wait for them to RSVP with declines, and then plan on mailing *additional* invites to your friends, then it's rude. It tells your "friends" that they're important enough to be space fillers and to purchase you a gift, but not important enough to actually be invited in the first place. It also tells your guests that declined that they're replaceable.

If you're just trying to figure out a way to invite more friends because you would rather have them there than family then more power to you, but don't base it on the declines from your RSVPs. All invites should be sent out at *one* time, and everyone that received an STD needs to get a physical invite.

crisscrossKG · December 2013

Thank you for the input and suggestions. I did send out save the dates, and every person who received a save the date will definitely have an invitation sent to them with timely/early notice. I think we all have common ground that it is fine to invite as many friends as possible while still staying in my parents’ budget’s number limit, though we disagree on how to best do that to have as many friends as possible be able to attend.

Thankfully as all of our invitations are uniform, no one will receive an invitation that is written “Congrats! Lots of family members can’t come so I get to invite you after all!” They will open their mailbox and see an invitation and know that we would love for them to come share in the celebration with us. I don’t know a single person who would receive an invitation to a wedding and somehow think they are not cared about or desired to attend. And having been a guest myself, who the bride and groom invite, don’t invite, or who RSVP or doesn’t RSVP is not relevant, known, or important to me as a guest at all.

That being said, I think this conversation has worn itself out and all of us have expressed ourselves as clearly as possible and still may not see eye to eye. Thank you for the concern for my guests and for my wedding.

sarals24 · December 2013

OP, what if you get some declines, say 10, and invite your friends, and then those declines end up able to attend after all? This has already happened with two couples we've invited so far, and our wedding isn't as big as yours....this is a risk you run with "B listing". Or you risk your friends finding out, which could offend them.

Viczaesar · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

Thank you for the input and suggestions. I did send out save the dates, and every person who received a save the date will definitely have an invitation sent to them with timely/early notice. I think we all have common ground that it is fine to invite as many friends as possible while still staying in my parents’ budget’s number limit, though we disagree on how to best do that to have as many friends as possible be able to attend.

Thankfully as all of our invitations are uniform, no one will receive an invitation that is written “Congrats! Lots of family members can’t come so I get to invite you after all!” They will open their mailbox and see an invitation and know that we would love for them to come share in the celebration with us. I don’t know a single person who would receive an invitation to a wedding and somehow think they are not cared about or desired to attend. And having been a guest myself, who the bride and groom invite, don’t invite, or who RSVP or doesn’t RSVP is not relevant, known, or important to me as a guest at all.

That being said, I think this conversation has worn itself out and all of us have expressed ourselves as clearly as possible and still may not see eye to eye. Thank you for the concern for my guests and for my wedding.

People aren't stupid. It is invariably evident when someone has been B-listed. You are treating your friends badly and people will be offended - and rightfully so.

indianaalum · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

I just don't want to be ordering 10 extra trays of food if only 3 extra will be needed. The cost all adds up to so much money. I think what may work is asking his family help with calculating people. Neither I nor my fiance know a lot of family members and it sounds like the calculating by age is not accurate enough of a measurement anyway, so this would probably work out better for everyone in the long run. I don't like the idea of reprinting the RSVPs and also don't want to order way more food than the already cushioned food count, so having his family help with counting people to avoid over-over cushioning head count for food.

Would you PREFER to be the wedding that runs out of food and everyone goes home crabby and hungry and talks about how your wedding sucked? Would you PREFER to worry all night that the food will run out, thus not being able to relax and enjoy yourself?

Seriously, order EXTRA food for piece of mind.

OliveOilsMom · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

Thank you for the input and suggestions. I did send out save the dates, and every person who received a save the date will definitely have an invitation sent to them with timely/early notice. I think we all have common ground that it is fine to invite as many friends as possible while still staying in my parents’ budget’s number limit, though we disagree on how to best do that to have as many friends as possible be able to attend.

Thankfully as all of our invitations are uniform, no one will receive an invitation that is written “Congrats! Lots of family members can’t come so I get to invite you after all!” They will open their mailbox and see an invitation and know that we would love for them to come share in the celebration with us. I don’t know a single person who would receive an invitation to a wedding and somehow think they are not cared about or desired to attend. And having been a guest myself, who the bride and groom invite, don’t invite, or who RSVP or doesn’t RSVP is not relevant, known, or important to me as a guest at all.

That being said, I think this conversation has worn itself out and all of us have expressed ourselves as clearly as possible and still may not see eye to eye. Thank you for the concern for my guests and for my wedding.

Your invites should go out 6-8 weeks before your wedding. You haven't explained when you are going to send your invites out, but that is the proper time frame for it. And your potential B List guests WILL know they were B listed, when they receive an invitation where the RSVP date is only 2 weeks away. You saying that your B List guests won't know they are B Listed is basically calling your guests stupid. There are ladies on here who have posted about a B List invite they just received in the mail, so it's very easy to know when you have been B Listed.

manateehugger · December 2013

OliveOilsMom said:

crisscrossKG said:

Thank you for the input and suggestions. I did send out save the dates, and every person who received a save the date will definitely have an invitation sent to them with timely/early notice. I think we all have common ground that it is fine to invite as many friends as possible while still staying in my parents’ budget’s number limit, though we disagree on how to best do that to have as many friends as possible be able to attend.

Thankfully as all of our invitations are uniform, no one will receive an invitation that is written “Congrats! Lots of family members can’t come so I get to invite you after all!” They will open their mailbox and see an invitation and know that we would love for them to come share in the celebration with us. I don’t know a single person who would receive an invitation to a wedding and somehow think they are not cared about or desired to attend. And having been a guest myself, who the bride and groom invite, don’t invite, or who RSVP or doesn’t RSVP is not relevant, known, or important to me as a guest at all.

That being said, I think this conversation has worn itself out and all of us have expressed ourselves as clearly as possible and still may not see eye to eye. Thank you for the concern for my guests and for my wedding.

Your invites should go out 6-8 weeks before your wedding. You haven't explained when you are going to send your invites out, but that is the proper time frame for it. And your potential B List guests WILL know they were B listed, when they receive an invitation where the RSVP date is only 2 weeks away. You saying that your B List guests won't know they are B Listed is basically calling your guests stupid. There are ladies on here who have posted about a B List invite they just received in the mail, so it's very easy to know when you have been B Listed.

This. Also besides being incredibly rude and shallow, b-lists sound like a logistical pain in the butt. Who wants to worry about filling in the right number of "no" RSVP's with presumably, a ranked b-list of friends three weeks before their wedding? Who wants to bother addressing and mailing out round after round of invitations?

Anaelsea · December 2013

Did you phrase the rsvps as elderly? Using the word elderly? You should have not done it- regular RSVPs, then sat down with the FH and gone over who is older or not just between you, instead of having the guests do it

JustNicki · December 2013

I agree with PPs; b-listing guests is incredibly rude, as is the possibility of not having enough food for your guests.

OP, I get that you wanted to plan things ahead of time; I'm the same way. However, I didn't finalize anything until I had a very clear idea of my budget, my guest list, and what my parents may have wanted (they are footing the bill). None of this would have happened if you hadn't rushed to get things done ahead of time. For example, the awkward RSVPs would never have been a problem if you had checked with your and your FI's families BEFORE you had them printed.

MGP · December 2013

Anaelsea said:

Did you phrase the rsvps as elderly? Using the word elderly? You should have not done it- regular RSVPs, then sat down with the FH and gone over who is older or not just between you, instead of having the guests do it

You are missing the point here. The age of a guest - unless it has to do with getting a head count of adults vs. kids - is completely irrelevant. It's inappropriate and in some cases illegal to ask someone's age and for some people (like myself) just don't like to be reminded. Every time I have to check the "35 to 44" age bracket on a survey I get a little sad (I am 36).

For someone in the "elderly" age bracket to have to check that off on a wedding RSVP for NO REASON WHATSOEVER is highly offensive. However, it sounds like there are several etiquette breaches in OP's plans so sadly I guess anything goes at this point.

misshart00 · December 2013

What if ten couples RSVP no so you send out 10 more invitations who all say yes? Then 5 couples show up anyway? It has happened. Then you run out of food basically negating your first question. B-listing is rude. Don't do it. And especially don't do it if you're already stretched on your budget.

PrettyGirlLost · December 2013

crisscrossKG said:

My parents are paying for the VAST majority of the wedding. I have a couple part time jobs at college that pay for gas to my internship and my fiance has a couple jobs that go toward student loan payoffs so the two of us are tight on money. It sounds like you can't really afford to get married right now. In our EDIT: (my family's) culture the family of the bride get a HUGE say in everything and especially in our family the parents make a lot of decisions. Typically those who pay have a say, and since your parents are paying for your wedding. . . And just generally, the people footing the bill are the people that call most of the shots when it comes to finances like numbers and head counts. That's just life, so everyone has to learn to work within the context of what they have to work with. It is a non-negotiable string attached that all family members are invited, and my fiance also feels strongly about honoring the family that way since it is a cultural and family value.

Once all family members are invited from both sides, then anyone else up to the limit number we can invite our friends. The problem is that number of friends we can invite is very small before we reach the limit number, so if I see that a lot of my parents' guests aren't coming I definitely want to snatch up the potential to invite more of my friends. You can WANT to do this all you, ahem, want, but it is RUDE. If you want to invite more of your friends than your parents will allow you to, then be an adult and have a discussion with them, or postpone your wedding until you and your FI can pay for it on your own and then you can control the guest list entirely.

Haven't decided on how early to send out RSVPs, but knowing how my side of the family is there will likely be a lot of quick responses. Guests can however send them in as close as two weeks to the wedding.

ETA: I guess if it has to be boiled down to a point of oversimplifying, the A-list is family, B-list is my fiance's and my friends. All family has to be invited first and foremost out of obligation, but I want to do everything I can to invite as many of my friends as I can to share in the special day with me. So I will do whatever I can to do that.

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