FI's grandmother & religious differences

aurorajanette · December 2013

I've said in other posts that FI and I are both Atheists. We aren't militant, we just don't believe. We respect that others do, and would never think of trying to push our own beliefs on family and friends. This has mostly worked out okay for us, except in a few circumstances of family members just not getting it, but for the most part it is okay, because we just try to not talk about it with others.

However, FI's paternal grandmother married a minister after her husband died of cancer ten years ago, and has since become a born-again Christian. We received tons of paraphernalia from her in the mail... pamphlets and booklets telling us we were going to burn in hell for all of eternity. FI called her at least 10 times to ask her to please stop, and the mail increased. She also put his cellphone number on calling lists for a bunch of religious organizations in hopes of "saving" him. After giving her one more warning to no avail, FI sent his grandmother a satanic bible. This was an extremely poor decision on his part IMO, since rather than making her understand that we don't have any beliefs about anything at all, this move made her believe that we are Satanists, which couldn't be further from the truth. However, it got her to stop. She hasn't seen FI or spoken to him in over two years now because of this.

Now she is in town for Christmas, and has requested of her son (FFIL) that we invite her and her new husband over to our home for dessert tonight. FI resisted, but FFIL talked him into it somehow. We just had one condition... they are not allowed to bring any religious material into our home, and they are not allowed to speak about religion to us during their visit or they will be asked to leave. Oy vey! Now I have this lady, who I have never met, coming to my home tonight against both of our will. I'm just hoping that she's coming to make amends and not to cause more drama, although I doubt it (she gave FSIL who is also an Atheist a book entitled "God created all" for Christmas with the idea of getting a rise out of her). I think the last thing we need from that side of the family is more drama.

Wish me luck!

ETA: I don't want anyone religious to take this the wrong way. As I said, your beliefs are your beliefs, and I feel strongly that everyone is entitled to their own belief system (or lack thereof). I'm just venting about her inability to act the same way towards us.

natswild · December 2013

good luck, aurorajanette.

aurorajanette · December 2013

Thanks! I think because it's dessert, I'm going to serve coffee, then pour about four shots of Bailey's into mine to get through it. Haha.

jdluvr06 · December 2013

You have my sympathies. My FI and I are pagan and one of my aunts is very Christian. For a few years she would send us stuff and invite us to church. We never mentioned the stuff she sent and we always respectfully declined her invites to church. Eventually she stopped once she realize we were ignoring her attempts. This worked for us and allowed us to maintain the great relationship we have with her but my aunt wasn't nearly as pushy as you FI's grandmother sounds.

MobKaz · December 2013

I am sorry you are going through this as well. My son fell off "the Catholic wagon" several years ago. It was bittersweet watching him marry in a secular ceremony, but I focused on his happiness and how wonderful he and his wife are together.

This is a generalization to be sure, but I would caution you to watch for subtleties that they may try to bless your home. I would be shocked if they did not bring up the subject of your choices. I'd serve rum infused cake with that Bailey's coffee, and perhaps have The Exorcist playing on the television.

JCbride2015 · December 2013

Good luck. This lady sounds outright rude and pushy. Having strong religious beliefs does not give her the right to harass you guys with mail and calls.

Just make sure your Fi is a united front with you: it sounds like he's making decisions you aren't totally on board with (like getting talked into having her over in the first place). Have a talk with him about what your boundaries are, and if she crosses them, he needs to be the one to tell her to leave.

theninjapanda · December 2013

It is very hard to "deal" with others who have different beliefs. My mom is a southern Baptist and I, well not so much.

I know she is trying to mean well in her own way. My mom did similar things. And we stopped talking for a good 3 years.

Good luck.

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

Good luck!! DH and I are Catholic, and his grandmother is Lutheran, and that's enough to cause her consternation and angst.

As long as you and FI are on the same page, you'll be OK. I'd have your FI tell your FFIL to tell his mother, 'Son and FDIL are doing this at your request and as a favour to me. If you start in on their religious choices, they and I will force you to leave and they and I will not speak to you again until you apologise.'

Alternatively, depending on how much time you have, you could look up Bible verses that mention how their behaviour is wrong, and throw those at them, which is what I would do (and have done!).

chibiyui · December 2013

Best of luck to you. I am a very laid back christian and FI is agnostic. I had a grandmother who while very loving, was also very pushy about religion, and she drove my mother and two aunts out of the church doing that.
I recommend you have a glass of baileys with a shot of coffee.

CMGragain · December 2013

Your FI's Grandmother is expressing her love for you by sharing her faith. She is also being incredibly rude to by insisting on discussing something that do not wish to discuss, especially in your own home. (It was also very unkind of your FI to send her that Satanic Bible! Are you sure you want to marry this guy?)
You cannot stop her from being rude. Being rude in return will not help, and will probably lead to more drama that you wish to avoid.
I suggest you treat Grandma with respect and kindness. If she tries to bring up religion, you simply bean dip her. ("Yes, Grandma. Have you tried the bean dip? It is wonderful!")

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

CMGragain said:
Your FI's Grandmother is expressing her love for you by sharing her faith. She is also being incredibly rude to by insisting on discussing something that do not wish to discuss, especially in your own home. (It was also very unkind of your FI to send her that Satanic Bible! Are you sure you want to marry this guy?)
You cannot stop her from being rude. Being rude in return will not help, and will probably lead to more drama that you wish to avoid.
I suggest you treat Grandma with respect and kindness. If she tries to bring up religion, you simply bean dip her. ("Yes, Grandma. Have you tried the bean dip? It is wonderful!")

It was no more unkind of him to do that than it was for Grandma to do what she is doing. It's called giving someone a taste of her own unpleasant medicine. And OP said she didn't agree with her FI'S actions, so for you to call into question whether she should want to marry him is awfully judgemental.

Actions have consequences. If your action is to send unwanted religious texts over and over and over again despite being asked to stop, a consequence of that is that people will (a) avoid you and (b) do unto you as you are doing unto them -- a principle, I seem to recall, that comes from the Bible OP's FI's grandmother is fond of wielding like a gun but that she appears not to have read much of.

aurorajanette · December 2013

Thanks HisGirl. I was going to say the same thing.

Fortunately this crisis has been averted, since his grandmother is apparently sick and cannot come over this evening -- which we only found out after calling a number of times to try to figure out what time they were coming over so that we could plan accordingly. Thanks everyone for your support! While FI's grandmother is heading back down south tomorrow, I'm sure the day will eventually come when I will need to meet her, and I will take all of your advice in mind.

CMGragain I actually think it's quite disrespectful of you to question my relationship. I always believe in treating others with respect, but if they are going to continually disrespect me, as FI's grandmother did, then they shouldn't expect respect in return anymore. I said I didn't agree with FI's choice to send the Satanic Bible, but because it doesn't represent what we believe (or actually don't believe if you want to get technical about it). It actually did the trick, and I think that she needed something like that to shock her into stopping. I am actually usually flattered with simple signs of faith-sharing, even if that particular belief doesn't appeal to me. For instance, I have friends that say they'll pray for me when I'm having a bad time with something in my life. I'm not offended by that, because I believe it is their way of showing love and compassion. I don't think, however, that telling someone they will burn in hell for all eternity is an act of love. If his grandmother does ever come to my home I will be very respectful to her. If she brings up religion in my home, she will be asked to leave. End of story.

CMGragain · December 2013

I treat all religions with respect, even if I do not share their beliefs. I also respect your choice to have atheist beliefs.
My daughter was in a serious relationship with a young man of another faith. After some time, he changed his views and began to ridicule the same faith he had once embraced. The day he wore a sacred article of clothing as a Halloween costume was the day I counseled daughter to end the relationship. She didn't follow my advice, but the relationship ended a month later because of religious differences anyway.
I do not share Satanic beliefs, however, I do think your FI was completely disrespectful to have sent the book to your Grandmother. It is a red light. Even though he does not share his Grandmother's faith, he should respect her beliefs, just as she should respect yours. I would be very concerned about a man who could do such a thing to his grandmother, regardless of how she behaves.
Satanism aside, it is completely unacceptable to use an item of someone's religious beliefs as a joke. It makes no difference if this is the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Wicca, or even a Satanic book. He should not have sent it unless this truly represented his beliefs. If he had sent her a book promoting Atheism, it would not have been as troubling.
I am not "disrespecting" you or your relationship, but I am questioning it. I can only read what YOU posted. If you don't want honest opinions, then don't post controversial ideas.

aurorajanette · December 2013

CMGragain said:

I treat all religions with respect, even if I do not share their beliefs. I also respect your choice to have atheist beliefs.
My daughter was in a serious relationship with a young man of another faith. After some time, he changed his views and began to ridicule the same faith he had once embraced. The day he wore a sacred article of clothing as a Halloween costume was the day I counseled daughter to end the relationship. Unless I had more information about this, I don't think I see the issue. People dress up for Halloween in all sorts of outfits, and many times not out of disrespect. I was a Bavarian beer girl for Halloween last year. Does that make me anti-German or anti-beer or disrespectful in any way? No. Also, did your daughter ask for your advice about her relationship? Somehow I feel the answer to that question is no. She didn't follow my advice, but the relationship ended a month later because of religious differences anyway.
I do not share Satanic beliefs, however, I do think your FI was completely disrespectful to have sent the book to your Grandmother. It is a red light. Even though he does not share his Grandmother's faith, he should respect her beliefs, and after countless phone calls asking her to please stop in a kind and respectful manner, the respect ended. Do you blame us for both being frustrated after constant mailings and phone solicitations on something that we have no interest in, especially after asking her nicely to stop in the first place? just as she should respect yours. I would be very concerned about a man who could do such a thing to his grandmother, regardless of how she behaves. I'm not expecting you to be familiar with my past posts in any way, but coming from a place where you have zero understanding of his family dynamics, I hardly think you can comment on this. FI comes from a family where it was acceptable to them for his mother to kick him in the face when she was mad at him when he was young, on top of her constant screaming and emotional abuse. He surprisingly turned into a kind and gentle man despite an abusive mother and a shitty family that stood by her. A single lapse in judgement towards one of these people causes no concern from me after seeing him exercise wonderful judgement for many many years.
Satanism aside, it is completely unacceptable to use an item of someone's religious beliefs as a joke. This was hardly a joke. This was a decision made by someone who was at their wits end and knew that this was the only thing that would make her stop. Although I don't love that he did this, which I have said multiple times, we would still be receiving these mailings and phone calls if he hadn't. It makes no difference if this is the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Wicca, or even a Satanic book. He should not have sent it unless this truly represented his beliefs. If he had sent her a book promoting Atheism, it would not have been as troubling.
I am not "disrespecting" you or your relationship, but I am questioning it. I can only read what YOU posted. If you don't want honest opinions, then don't post controversial ideas. I'm trying to remember where I posted something controversial... please enlighten me. I welcome all opinions, but not ones attacking my relationship. Since you know nothing of my relationship, I do think it's extremely judgmental of you to pass your judgement on it. You state you are Christian, and yet you come on here judging my relationship. Before becoming an Atheist, I actually read the Bible in it's entirety and can cite you many passages warning against judging others.

ktjanesmom · December 2013

She got sick and couldnt make it. Divine intervention maybe.

huskypuppy14 · December 2013

CMGragain said:

I treat all religions with respect, even if I do not share their beliefs. I also respect your choice to have atheist beliefs.
My daughter was in a serious relationship with a young man of another faith. After some time, he changed his views and began to ridicule the same faith he had once embraced. The day he wore a sacred article of clothing as a Halloween costume was the day I counseled daughter to end the relationship. She didn't follow my advice, but the relationship ended a month later because of religious differences anyway.
I do not share Satanic beliefs, however, I do think your FI was completely disrespectful to have sent the book to your Grandmother. It is a red light. Even though he does not share his Grandmother's faith, he should respect her beliefs, just as she should respect yours. I would be very concerned about a man who could do such a thing to his grandmother, regardless of how she behaves.
Satanism aside, it is completely unacceptable to use an item of someone's religious beliefs as a joke. It makes no difference if this is the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Wicca, or even a Satanic book. He should not have sent it unless this truly represented his beliefs. If he had sent her a book promoting Atheism, it would not have been as troubling.
I am not "disrespecting" you or your relationship, but I am questioning it. I can only read what YOU posted. If you don't want honest opinions, then don't post controversial ideas.

Why? She was sending him unwanted religious materials, so he reciprocated. It doesn't matter that the grandma believes in what she sent and the FI doesn't. It's the point. And considering that the grandma said that they would burn in hell, they should have sent a note with the book saying they were preparing for the day!

Being an Atheist is the absence of believing in any religion or god. They should of sent the Origin or Species or something scientific to prove their point, but I don't fault the FI for sending the satanic book. Granny deserved it!

huskypuppy14 · December 2013

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

CMGragain said:
I treat all religions with respect, even if I do not share their beliefs. I also respect your choice to have atheist beliefs.
My daughter was in a serious relationship with a young man of another faith. After some time, he changed his views and began to ridicule the same faith he had once embraced. The day he wore a sacred article of clothing as a Halloween costume was the day I counseled daughter to end the relationship. She didn't follow my advice, but the relationship ended a month later because of religious differences anyway.
I do not share Satanic beliefs, however, I do think your FI was completely disrespectful to have sent the book to your Grandmother. It is a red light. Even though he does not share his Grandmother's faith, he should respect her beliefs, just as she should respect yours. I would be very concerned about a man who could do such a thing to his grandmother, regardless of how she behaves.
Satanism aside, it is completely unacceptable to use an item of someone's religious beliefs as a joke. It makes no difference if this is the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Wicca, or even a Satanic book. He should not have sent it unless this truly represented his beliefs. If he had sent her a book promoting Atheism, it would not have been as troubling.
I am not "disrespecting" you or your relationship, but I am questioning it. I can only read what YOU posted. If you don't want honest opinions, then don't post controversial ideas.

1. Respect is earned, not given automatically. OP's FI asked RESPECTFULLY and FREQUENTLY to knock off her behaviour, and she didn't. Further, she wasn't just sending her views on the matter, she POSTED HIS PHONE NUMBER on a website. I would be LIVID if DH's grandmother did that.

His behaviour isn't a red-light; it's a sign of frustration.

2. You keep harping on this tit-for-tat religious differences acceptance. Clearly his grandmother doesn't accept his religious differences, so why is he expected to accept hers? Acceptance is a two way street.

3. You are, in fact, disrespecting @aurorjanette's relationship. You have a really odd idea about respect, that aurora and her FI should take whatever shit his grandmother dishes out, and aurora should take ridiculous questions from you about her relationship, and not say anything.

4. Nothing in this post was 'controversial' until you stuck your nose where it didn't belong and questioned the validity of their relationship

EverAfer · December 2013

Everything @HisGirlFriday13 said. Grandma crossed alot of boundaries. Not just respect, but sharing their telephone number out to random strangers? That's a violation of privacy! The idea of people I don't know having my personal information-who have their own agenda- is just unnerving and annoying.

OP, sooner or later you'll meet Grandma. Good luck!

hellohkb · December 2013

I'm glad you were able to avert that situation, although it does sound frustrating that you had to go out of your way to call several times and ask before they told you they weren't going to make it. Honestly, I know it sounds terrible, but I don't really blame your FI for sending her the book. I'm sure he did it at a time where he was extremely upset and wasn't really thinking. I'm agnostic, my FH is an athiest, and we would be deeply angry if we had a family member constantly trying to convert us. Also, how rude of someone trying to judge your relationship.

I hope when you DO meet her, it goes very smoothly!

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

Honestly, my first thought on reading this was that it was a very carefully orchestrated plan (on grandma's part, not necessarily anyone else's) to do an 'intervention' on you to try to 'save' you. I've heard of it done.

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

@RebeccaB88 makes a very good point. It might well have been an intervention, and you dodged a bullet.

blabla89 · December 2013

Glad you were able to dodge the bullet. As a Christian it disgusts me to see other Christians being deliberately disrespectful. I'm sure your FI agreed to see her with the intention of mending the relationship, and hoping for the best. Maybe when the day comes they will have chilled out a little bit.

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

@HisGirlFriday13, I have several atheist friends. I've known it to happen. Some people refuse to believe there is a chance they aren't right about everything. Or, that someone else might think differently but also be right. Grandma wasn't coming to fix the relationship. She was coming to force her will on them or sever the relationship permanently.

RebeccaB88 · December 2013

HisGirlFriday13 · December 2013

@RebeccaB88 You're probably right. I have friends who would do that. Drives me crazy.

We had a ton of atheist friends, whom we invited to the wedding, and all I asked was that they be respectful during the ceremony. I didn't expect them to participate, although some did (esp during the sign of peace), and that was OK. I knew they were attending because they loved me and would be polite.

I will NEVER understand my fellow Christians who can t actually model Christ's behaviour.

MobKaz · December 2013

CMGragain said...... "The day he wore a sacred article of clothing as a Halloween costume was the day I counseled daughter to end the relationship."

I best get out my rosary beads. I fear there are many a Catholic, myself included, taking the fast train to hell, for wearing a nun's habit or priest's vestment as a Halloween costume.

CMGragain · December 2013

This wasn't a nun's or priest's costume. It was really offensive. Any Mormon's out there?
As a Catholic, I'm sure there are some things that would offend you if taken disrespectfully. How about a slutty Virgin Mary costume?

jdluvr06 · December 2013

@CMGragain I actually agree that the OP's FI shouldn't have sent grandma the Satantic Bible. I would never disrespect one of my elders like that no matter what they did. Then again I let my grandparents and my great grandma nag me about things whenever they want and I just smile and say I'll think about it. I think it is ok to let older people get away with saying things you wouldn't let anyone else get away with saying.

pumpkinsandturkeys · December 2013

@CMGragain -- without knowing what the costume was, we can't properly assess the gravity of the situation, but I trust that you found it offensive to you and your beliefs. I disagree that any sort of religious accoutrement as a costume is offensive, but yes -- as a Catholic, I would find a slutty Virgin Mary costume to be a faux pas. However, I would choose to explain to the person why it was offensive to me, and hope that they would respect that in the future.

Regardless of the above, OP's FGIL crossed the offensive boundary first, and in the worst way. She was rude, disrespectful, and selfish, and forced her family into a position where they had to go to extreme measures to get her to relent. Whether or not you agree with the ceasefire tactics, it doesn't change the fact that when people feel cornered and as though they have no other option, they'll turn to extreme measures to get themselves out of that situation. It's pure survival instinct.

The way the grandmother acted was very inappropriate, period. She needs to start adopting some of those Christian attitudes she keeps trying to shove down everyone's throat. It may also behoove you to keep more of an open, forgiving mindset towards your daughter's choice in partner, provided that the person wasn't dressing up that way in a spiteful manner and simply had a misguided sense of humour.

FI's grandmother & religious differences

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