FI's grandmother & religious differences

Re: FI's grandmother & religious differences

• MobKaz member

  

  December 2013

  CMGragain said:

  This wasn't a nun's or priest's costume.  It was really offensive.  Any Mormon's out there?
  As a Catholic, I'm sure there are some things that would offend you if taken disrespectfully.  How about a slutty Virgin Mary costume? 
  

  
  

  Offend me?  Yes.  But to take one situation of piss poor judgment and make a sweeping generalization about the person behind the mask?  No.

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• CMGragain member

  

  December 2013

  I agree with you that Grandma was waaaay out of bounds.  Anyone who forces religious beliefs on another person is rude.
  No, the Halloween costume was not personally offensive to me.  What bothered me was that the young man would be so disrespectful to his former beliefs.  Anyone who shared those beliefs would have been seriously offended.
  I have two grown children.  My daughter went on to find a wonderful husband who shares her beliefs, which are the same as my own.  Now that they are parents, they agree about the religious beliefs that they want to teach their children.  One of those beliefs will be respect for religions that differ from their own.
  My son is an atheist.  I wish he shared my faith, but he does not, and that is his choice.  I wouldn't dream of trying to force him to change.  (I still hope he does someday, though.  I haven't lost all hope!  I do pray for him.)  If he ever becomes a parent, he will have the right to teach his children whatever beliefs he and his wife agree.  I still expect him to respect my religious beliefs, especially while he is in my house.  Grandma needs to do the same.
  I still maintain that sending Grandma the Satanic Bible was wrong and disrespectful, though.  Two wrongs do not make a right.
  

  

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• PolarBearFitz member

  

  December 2013 edited December 2013

  CMGragain said:

  I agree with you that Grandma was waaaay out of bounds.  Anyone who forces religious beliefs on another person is rude. Questioning the OPs relationship due to one action from her fiance that was a product of frustration is completely rude.
  No, the Halloween costume was not personally offensive to me.  What bothered me was that the young man would be so disrespectful to his former beliefs.  Anyone who shared those beliefs would have been seriously offended. This is an assumption and unless you know someone who was offended you cannot just assume people would be offended. If they aren't your beliefs you have no idea how they would feel. And until you share what sort of costume this was no one on here can offer any opinion on it. The vague reference isn't helping you here.
  I have two grown children.  My daughter went on to find a wonderful husband who shares her beliefs, which are the same as my own.  Now that they are parents, they agree about the religious beliefs that they want to teach their children.  One of those beliefs will be respect for religions that differ from their own. Sharing your same beliefs isn't what makes a person wonderful. But congrats on your daughter being counseled into finding someone you approve of...
  My son is an atheist.  I wish he shared my faith, but he does not, and that is his choice.  I wouldn't dream of trying to force him to change.  (I still hope he does someday, though.  I haven't lost all hope!  I do pray for him.)  If he ever becomes a parent, he will have the right to teach his children whatever beliefs he and his wife agree.  I still expect him to respect my religious beliefs, especially while he is in my house.  Grandma needs to do the same. Finally, a good point!
  I still maintain that sending Grandma the Satanic Bible was wrong and disrespectful, though.  Two wrongs do not make a right.  The OP stated in her original post that she didn't agree with doing this. So your view point on whether it was wrong or not isn't relevant at all. Judging other people's actions and relationships isn't your place and against Christianity itself.
  
  I seem to recall something about being the first to throw stones...
  

  
  

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• pumpkinsandturkeys member

  

  December 2013

  CMGragain said:

  I agree with you that Grandma was waaaay out of bounds.  Anyone who forces religious beliefs on another person is rude.
  No, the Halloween costume was not personally offensive to me.  What bothered me was that the young man would be so disrespectful to his former beliefs.  Anyone who shared those beliefs would have been seriously offended.
  I have two grown children.  My daughter went on to find a wonderful husband who shares her beliefs, which are the same as my own.  Now that they are parents, they agree about the religious beliefs that they want to teach their children.  One of those beliefs will be respect for religions that differ from their own.
  My son is an atheist.  I wish he shared my faith, but he does not, and that is his choice.  I wouldn't dream of trying to force him to change.  (I still hope he does someday, though.  I haven't lost all hope!  I do pray for him.)  If he ever becomes a parent, he will have the right to teach his children whatever beliefs he and his wife agree.  I still expect him to respect my religious beliefs, especially while he is in my house.  Grandma needs to do the same.
  I still maintain that sending Grandma the Satanic Bible was wrong and disrespectful, though.  Two wrongs do not make a right.
  

  There's a lot of focus on mutual respect here, which is important when discussing religious differences. However, I feel that you disrespected your daughter and her previous relationship when you passed judgment on her former partner based on a Halloween costume. Just because he used to believe in one particular set of morals and values and teachings and now does not doesn't warrant judging his current beliefs, unless they are personally hurtful in some way. He chose to believe something before, and now he believes something different. What he believes now should not be held against him because of what he believed before. People are permitted to change.

  
  

  In counselling your daughter to end the relationship (even if it was later meant to end for other reasons), you did not show respect for her previous partner's beliefs. He can choose to believe in nothing, or to believe that what he previously believed is now a source of humour. That's completely within his rights, and unless his actions are offensive, he should be afforded that freedom without judgment.

  
  

  Respect always goes both ways, and is something that is earned (not an entitlement).

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• zitiqueen member

  

  December 2013

  CMGragain said:

  This wasn't a nun's or priest's costume.  It was really offensive.  Any Mormon's out there?
  As a Catholic, I'm sure there are some things that would offend you if taken disrespectfully.  How about a slutty Virgin Mary costume? 
  

  
  So you're saying he wore the magic underwear as his costume?

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• Emmy1493 member

  

  December 2013 edited December 2013

  lalalaurita said:

  Glad you were able to dodge the bullet. As a Christian it disgusts me to see other Christians being deliberately disrespectful. I'm sure your FI agreed to see her with the intention of mending the relationship, and hoping for the best. Maybe when the day comes they will have chilled out a little bit.
  

  I 100% agree. I too am a Christian, and have had friends of opposite faiths, but never once had questioned it or have even tried to shove my beliefs down their throat. I get them wanting to share. However, overstepping that boundary where it becomes uncomfortable and over the top is above harassment, and I am sorry you had to experience that OP. I hope she comes to accept the fact that you do not have to share in her beliefs and leaves it at that.If not, I would not blame you or your FI if you told her where to leave it. Best wishes in all of this crazy-ness!

  
  

  ETA: Clarification.

  

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• sdg2502 member

  

  December 2013

  If the situation arises where you have a meet up scheduled with her again, I would arrange it for neutral territory like a cafe or something. That way, you don't have to have an ugly or uncomfortable scene where you have to try and make her leave your home and instead you and your FI can just stand up and walk out. Anyway, sounds like you had a lucky escape this time, I bet you both breathed a sigh of relief!
  
  

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• CMGragain member

  

  December 2013 edited December 2013

  Pumpkinsand turkeys, I like your post.  It was well thought out.
  My daughter's relationship with the young man lasted about two years.  She was head over heels in love.  He was a Mormon elder who was questioning his Mormon beliefs.  She was the first non-Mormon he had dated.  My daughter did not really understand his faith.  She learned a lot about it over the next year.
  The young man attended church with our family (United Methodist) and even sang in the choir.  After about a year, he decided that he was an atheist.  He became sarcastic and derisive of his former faith, and eventually of all faiths.  My daughter is a protestant Christian.  He broke off their relationship without warning or explanation.  He later posted on facebook that he didn't want to marry a Christian.  He began dating another atheist, and eventually married her.
  Yeah, I saw the handwriting on the wall.  I knew that the relationship was doomed because he was undergoing so much change.  I also did not believe that he really loved my daughter enough to have a strong marriage.  The relationship was too one sided.  (OK, he was hot.)
  After a long time, my daughter made herself a list of things she wanted in a husband.  Honest, reliable, intelligent, ethical and a Christian.  She was talking to a friend at a party, and she showed him her list.  He said "See that nerdy looking guy over there in the corner?  He's what you want.  Go get him!"  They are very happily married.  Thank you, God!
  

  

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• aurorajanette member

  

  December 2013

  CMGragain said:

  Pumpkinsand turkeys, I like your post.  It was well thought out.
  My daughter's relationship with the young man lasted about two years.  She was head over heels in love.  He was a Mormon elder who was questioning his Mormon beliefs.  She was the first non-Mormon he had dated.  My daughter did not really understand his faith.  She learned a lot about it over the next year.
  The young man attended church with our family (United Methodist) and even sang in the choir.  After about a year, he decided that he was an atheist.  He became sarcastic and derisive of his former faith, and eventually of all faiths.  My daughter is a protestant Christian.  He broke off their relationship without warning or explanation.  He later posted on facebook that he didn't want to marry a Christian.  He began dating another atheist, and eventually married her.
  Yeah, I saw the handwriting on the wall.  I knew that the relationship was doomed because he was undergoing so much change.  I also did not believe that he really loved my daughter enough to have a strong marriage.  The relationship was too one sided.  (OK, he was hot.)
  After a long time, my daughter made herself a list of things she wanted in a husband.  Honest, reliable, intelligent, ethical and a Christian.  She was talking to a friend at a party, and she showed him her list.  He said "See that nerdy looking guy over there in the corner?  He's what you want.  Go get him!"  They are very happily married.  Thank you, God!
  

  I very much appreciate your response. It is helpful to know more of the information about this specific case, and I'm sorry that your daughter had her heart broken by this guy.

  
  

  To the bolded, and this is a general statement, not in any way representing what this guy  was or was not feeling... people don't just decide they're Atheist. It often involves a lot of research, confusion and anxiety for many Atheists, and some don't even come out about if for years (if at all), because they are afraid of being ridiculed by friends, family and society. I am always hesitant to tell someone I'm Atheist, just because I don't want to deal with all of the ridiculous questions that I get when I do (ie. "what happened to you in your childhood that made you that way?", "what if you're wrong", "What do you have to live for if you don't live for god?", "Where do you get your morals from?", etc.). Quite honestly, it does get very tiring when 8 out of 10 people question you incessantly for not believing what they believe.

  
  

  While I am not sarcastic or militant about my Atheism, I can see why some people are. I feel like I'm on a constant quest to show people that I'm not a bad person because I'm an Atheist, since that's what a lot of people truly believe (or they are just completely confused in general and believe that we are satanists, witches, etc.). Not that I necessarily care what other think about me, but it's genuinely a tough situation. In the US, we live in a country that predominately follows Judeo-Christian beliefs, and while that's okay for those who follow that, there is a struggle for the rest of us who do believe that there should be a separation. 

  
  

  Long story short, it's tiring having people constantly question your belief system (or lack thereof) and judge you as a person. All people go through this in different aspects of their lives, and we all know that it can push anyone to be a little sarcastic if pushed too much. Am I saying that what your daughter's ex-boyfriend did was right? Absolutely not! Am I saying it's right to act rude and because you maintain a system of belief? Absolutely not! But people react in all different ways, and maybe with trying to sort out his feelings and beliefs, and fielding opposition from people in his life who didn't agree with his choice, it came out as sarcasm, which is a pretty typical response.

  
  

  I'm truly sorry though that that was your experience. I truly believe that unless truly provoked beyond reason, there isn't a reason for rudeness like that. I'm glad that your daughter was able to move on and find someone great!

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• CMGragain member

  

  January 2014

  I posted earlier that my son is an atheist.  I do understand a lot of what you go through.
  I think that having your heart broken by loving the wrong man is just a part of growing up.  It happened to me.  It happens to a lot of girls.  Being in love with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you should marry them.
  My daughter was following my example.  A couple of years after MY heart was broken, I made a list and decided to marry the man who fulfilled my needs.  We have been happily married for more than 37 years.  I love him more every year.  Tonight is New Year's Eve, and it is a good time to think back on how blessed I have been.
  Good luck to you.
  

  

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• GrrArgh member

  

  January 2014 edited January 2014

  zitiqueen said:

  CMGragain said:

  This wasn't a nun's or priest's costume.  It was really offensive.  Any Mormon's out there?
  As a Catholic, I'm sure there are some things that would offend you if taken disrespectfully.  How about a slutty Virgin Mary costume? 
  

  
  So you're saying he wore the magic underwear as his costume?

  OH MY GOSH my temple garments are MAGIC?! Can I fly now? please tell me I can fly oooh or maybe turn invisible that'd be pretty slick too, but I guess I'd settle for pulling kittens out of a hat as I'm not overly fond of bunnies. (use to work as a photographer for glamourshots... they had live rabbits one year for Easter that was a nightmare) 

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