Avoiding response cards

Sars06 · January 2014

Happy 2014, Knotties!

I have a question about invitation etiquette. My fiance and I don't want to send RSVP cards with our invitations, because we think they're silly and unnecessary. We especially don't want to send menu response cards - I hate the idea of forcing people to choose their entree two weeks in advance before they've had a chance to even see the complete menu. I also think that a nice caterer should be able to estimate an entree count and offer tableside ordering.

Well, apparently our caterer isn't that nice, because the wedding coordinator at our hotel venue is insisting that we MUST solicit our guests' entree selections in advance. What should we do?

A. Offer no entree choice (except vegetarian option)

B. Offer a dual entree (more expensive, and I also find them a little weird/wasteful)

C. Just send the damn response cards. Everyone does it and nobody but Miss Manners finds them impolite.

D. Fight with our venue about this/make up a count to give them/other

Note that our dinner is being made by the hotel restaurant and our reception will only be 60-80 people, so it frankly seems ridiculous to me that they wouldn't be able to estimate what people will order. And, at $130 pp, the place is hardly inexpensive.

monkeysip · January 2014

It's pretty normal for a venue to ask for entree counts in advance. They do this so they can make sure to have all the proper meals ready in a reasonable time. I don't see that or response cards to be that big of a deal.

A--I wouldn't do this unless you think the one option will just be universally appealing to your guests

B--I don't particularly like these, but some people do. That's really your call

C--I would just do this.

D--If you think your venue might compromise here, then go ahead and try. I would NOT make up a count to give them. If the numbers are wildly off, people may have to eat what they don't want.

AddieCake · January 2014

Sars06 said:

Happy 2014, Knotties!

I have a question about invitation etiquette. My fiance and I don't want to send RSVP cards with our invitations, because we think they're silly and unnecessary. We especially don't want to send menu response cards - I hate the idea of forcing people to choose their entree two weeks in advance before they've had a chance to even see the complete menu. I also think that a nice caterer should be able to estimate an entree count and offer tableside ordering.

Well, apparently our caterer isn't that nice, because the wedding coordinator at our hotel venue is insisting that we MUST solicit our guests' entree selections in advance. What should we do?

A. Offer no entree choice (except vegetarian option)
B. Offer a dual entree (more expensive, and I also find them a little weird/wasteful)
C. Just send the damn response cards. Everyone does it and nobody but Miss Manners finds them impolite.
D. Fight with our venue about this/make up a count to give them/other

Note that our dinner is being made by the hotel restaurant and our reception will only be 60-80 people, so it frankly seems ridiculous to me that they wouldn't be able to estimate what people will order. And, at $130 pp, the place is hardly inexpensive.

How could they possible estimate what people will order? They don't know your guests or their tastes. Pretend I'm coming to your wedding. Go ahead....tell me what you think I'll order.

And if you don't have response cards, how do you intend to know how many people are coming?

misshart00 · January 2014

If you're having a dinner and they won't allow table side ordering, you really need to do response cards. They're not just for food. You need to know how many tables, chairs, centerpieces, etc. plus, you don't want to order food for 80 people and 40 show up.

Sars06 · January 2014

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

AddieCake · January 2014

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

You are inviting 80 people. What if 30 people decide they can't come? Then you would be wasting about $4000!

If your venue is requiring that you get a head count, there is a reason for it. What if all 80 people decide they want the steak. That would be very unusual, so they may run out of it. Some restaurants only order food once or twice a week, which is why they need to know ahead of time who wants what.

Also, back in the day, RSVP cards were not required with wedding invitations because invited guests would compose a short note on their own letterhead to let the host of the wedding know if they were attending. Now it is just made easier by having the B&G include it with their wedding invitation.

monkeysip · January 2014

AddieL73 said:

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

DUH.... a polite guest will find your address and write you a letter explaining their attendance or non-attendance in a timely manner before the wedding.

Obviously your guests just weren't refined enough.

Sars06 · January 2014

For the record, Miss Manners advises that response cards are incorrect because they imply that your guests don't know how to respond to an invitation.

Obviously, however, they are very common these days. I would still prefer to avoid them if I can. But if you guys don't mind them, I'm probably being needlessly fussy about this.

AddieCake · January 2014

Clearly not! Man, I gotta start hanging out with a better class of people!

firebabe6519 · January 2014

Just to help give you a different perspective... Having worked as a sous chef for a wedding venue, I can say from experience that table side ordering for even 40 or 50 guests is a huge hassle. Unless you want to be the bridezilla who forces guests to immediately sit and remain in their exact seats until food is served trying to get everyone's order can take up to an hour or two. In addition in order to avoid waste and losing a considerable chunk of change the kitchen would have to wait to prepare / cook the meals until after the order is received.

You could be looking at up to an hour wait time after the orders are taken before your guests receive their meals. Its so much kinder to both guest and chef alike to simply have the selection already done before hand. It means smoother faster service for you and your guests as well as fewer mix ups.

MNVegas · January 2014

Sars06 said:

For the record, Miss Manners advises that response cards are incorrect because they imply that your guests don't know how to respond to an invitation.

Obviously, however, they are very common these days. I would still prefer to avoid them if I can. But if you guys don't mind them, I'm probably being needlessly fussy about this.

Obviously there are many people who do not know how to RSVP to invitations. How many times do we hear from brides about people not sending RSVP even when cards are included? Make it easy on yourself, your guests and your caterer by including the cards.

MobKaz · January 2014

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

Will you not care that your guests will not be enjoying their dinner together? There is NO possible way 80 guests will be able to place their order and dine simultaneously. And this has nothing to do with "niceness". The restaurant is a business, a hospitality one at that. Its goal is to ensure that their patrons are completely satisfied with their dining experience. If one of your guests orders something for which the restaurant cannot accommodate, because of YOUR silliness, it reflects on the restaurant.

Sars06 · January 2014

AddieL73 said:

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

Our address would be on the invitation. I am surprised that everyone is so confused by this. Would you really not respond to an invitation if it didn't include a pre-addressed, stamped envelope?

misshart00 · January 2014

Sars06 said:

AddieL73 said:

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

Our address would be on the invitation. I am surprised that everyone is so confused by this. Would you really not respond to an invitation if it didn't include a pre-addressed, stamped envelope?

I did not have response cards. I chose to have online rsvps. Biggest mistake ever. We invited about 400. About 250-300 showed up. Not even 100 rsvp'd. One person wrote a note to me (my grandmother).

misshart00 · January 2014

Oh, and my numbers didn't matter quite as much because I didn't have a meal.

AddieCake · January 2014

It's not that I wouldn't respond. It's that I would find it peculiar b/c these are no longer the days of yore where people responded with a note they prepared themselves. As PP said, there are tons of people out there who cannot manage to respond USING a provided RSVP card, so you're sure to have people going WTF if they don't get one at all.

Sars06 · January 2014

firebabe6519 said:

Just to help give you a different perspective... Having worked as a sous chef for a wedding venue, I can say from experience that table side ordering for even 40 or 50 guests is a huge hassle. Unless you want to be the bridezilla who forces guests to immediately sit and remain in their exact seats until food is served trying to get everyone's order can take up to an hour or two. In addition in order to avoid waste and losing a considerable chunk of change the kitchen would have to wait to prepare / cook the meals until after the order is received. You could be looking at up to an hour wait time after the orders are taken before your guests receive their meals. Its so much kinder to both guest and chef alike to simply have the selection already done before hand. It means smoother faster service for you and your guests as well as fewer mix ups.

Thanks for this perspective! I thought I remembered doing tableside ordering for weddings when I was a waitress, but I may be misremembering. I guess it's less common than I thought.

So then would you have some sort of notation on each guest's placecard indicating their order?

misshart00 · January 2014

And worse yet, if there's not a response card, they may think the wedding is very informal and choose that day whether they want to show up or not.

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

Sars06 said:

AddieL73 said:

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

Our address would be on the invitation. I am surprised that everyone is so confused by this. Would you really not respond to an invitation if it didn't include a pre-addressed, stamped envelope?

Your faith in your guests is adorable! People don't send back pre-stamped RSVP cards. What makes you think people will write you a note about their attendance without being prompted?

monkeysip · January 2014

Sars06 said:

firebabe6519 said:

Just to help give you a different perspective... Having worked as a sous chef for a wedding venue, I can say from experience that table side ordering for even 40 or 50 guests is a huge hassle. Unless you want to be the bridezilla who forces guests to immediately sit and remain in their exact seats until food is served trying to get everyone's order can take up to an hour or two. In addition in order to avoid waste and losing a considerable chunk of change the kitchen would have to wait to prepare / cook the meals until after the order is received. You could be looking at up to an hour wait time after the orders are taken before your guests receive their meals. Its so much kinder to both guest and chef alike to simply have the selection already done before hand. It means smoother faster service for you and your guests as well as fewer mix ups.

Thanks for this perspective! I thought I remembered doing tableside ordering for weddings when I was a waitress, but I may be misremembering. I guess it's less common than I thought.

So then would you have some sort of notation on each guest's placecard indicating their order?

Usually you come up with some way to note their meal on their escort card. We had different colored escort cards to denote chicken, salmon, or kids meal (we had no vegetarians).

Sars06 · January 2014

AddieL73 said:

It's not that I wouldn't respond. It's that I would find it peculiar b/c these are no longer the days of yore where people responded with a note they prepared themselves. As PP said, there are tons of people out there who cannot manage to respond USING a provided RSVP card, so you're sure to have people going WTF if they don't get one at all.

Fair enough. I have heard the stories of guests not responding even when they have an RSVP card, so I kind of figured why bother? If our guests don't intuitively understand that they need to RSVP to our wedding, god help us anyway.

But I guess it sounds like guests really do expect them these days.

JCbride2015 · January 2014

misshart00 said:

And worse yet, if there's not a response card, they may think the wedding is very informal and choose that day whether they want to show up or not.

I think this is very likely. It shows informality, which isn't what you want for a $130/pp plated dinner. People might think they can just skip the RSVP and show up if they feel like it.

firebabe6519 · January 2014

Sars06 said:

firebabe6519 said:

Just to help give you a different perspective... Having worked as a sous chef for a wedding venue, I can say from experience that table side ordering for even 40 or 50 guests is a huge hassle. Unless you want to be the bridezilla who forces guests to immediately sit and remain in their exact seats until food is served trying to get everyone's order can take up to an hour or two. In addition in order to avoid waste and losing a considerable chunk of change the kitchen would have to wait to prepare / cook the meals until after the order is received.

You could be looking at up to an hour wait time after the orders are taken before your guests receive their meals. Its so much kinder to both guest and chef alike to simply have the selection already done before hand. It means smoother faster service for you and your guests as well as fewer mix ups.

Thanks for this perspective! I thought I remembered doing tableside ordering for weddings when I was a waitress, but I may be misremembering. I guess it's less common than I thought.

So then would you have some sort of notation on each guest's placecard indicating their order?

It can be done, I've done it for weddings and events before. But I've never had it go smoothly. Guests usually want to mingle or talk or they change seats and move about...

But having the order listed on the placard works well. Or if you don't like that, you can always give your caterer a seating chart with the guests order so they know what table or seat numbers to bring what dish to. :-)

Sars06 · January 2014

monkeysip said:

Sars06 said:

firebabe6519 said:

Just to help give you a different perspective... Having worked as a sous chef for a wedding venue, I can say from experience that table side ordering for even 40 or 50 guests is a huge hassle. Unless you want to be the bridezilla who forces guests to immediately sit and remain in their exact seats until food is served trying to get everyone's order can take up to an hour or two. In addition in order to avoid waste and losing a considerable chunk of change the kitchen would have to wait to prepare / cook the meals until after the order is received. You could be looking at up to an hour wait time after the orders are taken before your guests receive their meals. Its so much kinder to both guest and chef alike to simply have the selection already done before hand. It means smoother faster service for you and your guests as well as fewer mix ups.

Thanks for this perspective! I thought I remembered doing tableside ordering for weddings when I was a waitress, but I may be misremembering. I guess it's less common than I thought.

So then would you have some sort of notation on each guest's placecard indicating their order?

Usually you come up with some way to note their meal on their escort card. We had different colored escort cards to denote chicken, salmon, or kids meal (we had no vegetarians).

Gotcha. Thanks!

lyndausvi · January 2014

Fact is some places just do not have the capacity to table-side order 80 dinners at the exact same time. It's not that they are mean, it just they don't have the space.

As far as guessing, you are correct they do guess on a daily basis and often they get it wrong making them have to tell patrons they are out of certain dishes. The only way to make sure everyone gets what they want is to make 80 of every dish. That cost money and causes waste.

AddieCake · January 2014

OP, thank you for not going BSC on us for not liking the no RSVP card plan. If you lived near me, I'd like to take you out for a slice of cake!

Sars06 · January 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

Sars06 said:

AddieL73 said:

Sars06 said:

It's a restaurant - they estimate every day what people are going to order without getting a count in advance.

And I expect that my guests will RSVP.

How? By tracking down a phone number or something for you and calling? How will they know when the deadline to do this is?

Our address would be on the invitation. I am surprised that everyone is so confused by this. Would you really not respond to an invitation if it didn't include a pre-addressed, stamped envelope?

Your faith in your guests is adorable! People don't send back pre-stamped RSVP cards. What makes you think people will write you a note about their attendance without being prompted?

Lol, ok ok. I get it. The public demands response cards! We can do them.

I just figured it was self-evident that a wedding invitation requires a response, but apparently not.

jessicabessica · January 2014

If table side ordering was such a big deal to you, you should have asked before you booked. I really don't think it's a problem, though, or that your guests will be insulted at having the RSVP card with meal choice. It is so common to see that. To denote each meal choice, you can put a little sticker on each escort card, or have the cards be different color.

Sars06 · January 2014

AddieL73 said:

OP, thank you for not going BSC on us for not liking the no RSVP card plan. If you lived near me, I'd like to take you out for a slice of cake!

Yes, I love cake!!

I've been a lurker for an embarrassingly long time, so I'm down with these boards. I appreciate the straightforward, informed opinions. Otherwise I would be on WB, asking people to tell me how cute it is that I'm having a PPD with tiered reception and cash bar.

phira · January 2014

Look, you're being really weirdly unreasonable about this.

Have you ever hosted a dinner party before? If you don't know who's coming to the party, you don't know how much food to make. You might make too much and waste a lot of money, or you might make enough for the 5 people who told you they'd be coming, but not for the 4 people who showed up without telling you they could make it, or the 3 people your 5 original guests brought with them.

As for your complaint that people shouldn't have to choose what entree they want when they don't know exactly what the entree options are, you could include a full description of the entrees on your response cards, or you could include the information on a wedding website. That's what we're doing, since we have a lot of guests with dietary restrictions.

It is NOT rude to ask people to choose in advance what they would like to eat; it's no more rude than offering one option. Additionally, split entrees cost more money ... and that makes SENSE. It takes more effort, money, and coordination to offer multiple entrees. Why wouldn't it cost a few extra dollars per person?

I think that the point here is that you've already decided you think response cards are rude, you think you don't need to give your caterer an accurate head count, and you think that asking guests to choose an entree is insulting to your guests. So, what do you want us to tell you?

Avoiding response cards

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