Dad issues (Semi-WR)

KytchynWitche · January 2014

So backstory: late last November, shit went down. My dad's wife is an alcoholic, and because she's incredibly immature, we (that is me and FI, my sis and her FI) knew that any sort of intervention we tried to stage would just turn into a screaming match. Instead we sat down with dad and calmly and rationally told him we were worried for stepmom, for him, and for her kids, that we didn't feel safe or welcome in their home, and that we would appreciate it if stepmom would treat us as friends or at the very least adults, as we (me and sis) were both adults when they started dating and didn't need a second mother. It all went very well, or so we thought.

The next morning he emailed both of us to say that he felt we had ambushed him, that our fears were ungrounded (basically that it's all in our heads, despite several other people saying that they're no longer willing to socialise with stepmom), and that we need to act like adults before we can be treated like adults (WTF?). At the end of the day he basically said that seeing as he clearly couldn't have both us and stepmom in his life, he'd rather have her. Fine, fair enough, he's entitled to that choice.

So now comes the tricky part. My sister, who is getting married in June, has decided not to invite him to her wedding at all. Again fine, it's her choice. It's her second marriage, and she's only inviting 30 people - I'm the only member of the family who's invited, and I think it's probably because I'm the only member of the family who hasn't told her that she's making a mistake or expressed a dislike of her FI. The way I see it, she's paying for her wedding, she can invite or not invite whoever she likes.

I toyed briefly with the idea of not inviting dad to my wedding (October), but I really can't do that. It just doesn't feel right. Not to mention the fact that my grandparents (mom's folks) will want to know why he's not there, and if I say "I didn't invite him" I end up looking petty. I want them to see me in a good light. So FI and I decided that we would invited him and I would include a handwritten note with it, explaining a) why we're inviting him, b) why we're not inviting stepmom, and c) that nothing is expected of him but his presence would be appreciated.

Now here's what worries me: if I wait until closer to the wedding to write the note, I will probably be extremely emotional and end up saying things that I don't mean because I'm angry at him. Do you think I can draft the note now, and just write it out when I send the invites? Are my fears ungrounded? Am I totally overthinking this?

hlvonb · January 2014

@urbaneca

I have an alcoholic biological mother (I think we've talked about this before) so I will give you my advice....

YES you can write the note now. What I have done with my biological mother in the past is write a note with everything I want to say. Then I look at it 2 days later and cross out anything I don't think is necessary or that I think would be counter productive to what the note is suppossed to say / do / mean / etc. Then I re-write it. I look at it the next day and if I still agree with the 2nd (or 3rd) draft, that's the one I mail.

I personally would write your dad the letter and send it out sooner rather than later because unfortunately you're bound to get some sort of drama from it and you'd probably rather deal with that now then deal with it on top of everything else closer to the wedding (at least I would). That way the majority (if not all ) of the aftermath from the note can be aired our now and then you would just be dealing with the "dust or fumes" of it later on. (I hope that made sense)

Your fears are NOT ungrounded. As someone who has danced this dance before with my own biological mother, I must say your fears are not ungrounded. No one can argue or say what you're feeling is wrong if it is truely how you feel. They may not agree with it but oh well. It's how you feel and that's that.

You are NOT overthinking this. This is your wedding and you don't want to have to deal with unnecessary drama. Obviously things will go differently then planned but you get what I mean.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

Thanks @hlvonb

I'm not open to rehashing past problems with him, which is why I'm only sending the note with the invitation. He can choose to respond in the positive and come to my wedding, or he can choose to respond in the negative and not come, or he can choose to ignore it altogether. If he does try to reopen the issue, I'm going to ignore it.

When you get right down to it, this really is just a courtesy invite. I don't want my dad to look back on his life, one day when he's old and dying, and remember that he wasn't invited to his eldest daughter's wedding. And I don't want to look back on my life and know that I didn't give him the option to be there. If he chooses not to come, then it's on him.

I'm not trying to get him back in my life, I'm not trying to make things better, and I'm definitely not trying to apologize for what happened in November, because I really was not at fault. I just want to know that I did the right thing, and that I was the bigger person.

MobKaz · January 2014

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

mobkaz said:

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

Thanks for your input. I hear what you're saying, but that's why I want to include the note.

Whether I invite him or not, there will be drama. Having looked at it from every angle, inviting him and not stepmom is the lesser of two evils. My dad is, usually, a rational person, who will take the note and the invitation in the spirit in which it is meant.

This is about my dad, not about my stepmom. She is the type to take offense no matter what is done, so honestly, I don't give a damn if I insult her because I insult her just by breathing. I do however want to give my father the option of attending my wedding - if he then chooses not to because I won't invite his wife, then that's his right. I am NOT going to budge on this. I will NOT invite her, I will NOT have my wedding ruined by a tacky-ass drunk who can't stand not having the focus on her, I will NOT have a dry wedding so that I can invite her - that is unfair to the rest of my guests.

The idea that I have to invite the woman who ruined my parents' marriage simply because my father married her is laughable. She has made it quite clear over the last 7 years that she can't act like an adult, so I refuse to treat her like one. Etiquette be damned.

Sorry, that came off as a little more ranty than it was meant to... I really do appreciate the input.

PolarBearFitz · January 2014

mobkaz said:

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

I agree with @mobkaz

Unfortunately he put you in this tough spot and I can definitely understand not inviting your step mom but it may just cause more issues. I wouldn't send him an invitation and just accept any thing your grandparents want to think about it (they might actually understand you never know).

He chose his wife over his children and when you do things like that there are consequences (like missing your daughter's wedding). Especially when those children are trying to help and offer support for a crappy situation.

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I am sure whatever course of action you decide to take will be whatever is best for you and your family. This is merely my opinion and as I am not in it I cannot really say what is 'best.' Hope it all works out though!

KytchynWitche · January 2014

scribe95 said:

Unless you are also willing to invite HIS WIFE then I wouldn't send an invitation at all, frankly.

If it was anyone other than my father, I would not be inviting him at all.

However, we're having a small wedding which is almost entirely family, and if I don't invite him there will be drama greater than any drama which may be caused by inviting him and not his homewrecking wife. If I invite him and he chooses not to come, I can at least say "Well, I invited him and he didn't come." If I don't invite him at all, then my grandparents will spend their remaining years hating me because I'm petty.

It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.

PolarBearFitz · January 2014

urbaneca said:

scribe95 said:

Unless you are also willing to invite HIS WIFE then I wouldn't send an invitation at all, frankly.

If it was anyone other than my father, I would not be inviting him at all.

However, we're having a small wedding which is almost entirely family, and if I don't invite him there will be drama greater than any drama which may be caused by inviting him and not his homewrecking wife. If I invite him and he chooses not to come, I can at least say "Well, I invited him and he didn't come." If I don't invite him at all, then my grandparents will spend their remaining years hating me because I'm petty.

It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.

If you don't want anyone misjudging you as petty then you have to invite his wife as well. It could be perceived as petty if you deny her being invited and just invite your father. I think all the judging may be assumed though. You never know what people can understand or have been through. They may not judge you at all for this.

Personally I think it would seem less petty to just not invite either of them. You are not splitting hairs and it is what it is. You do not have to invite someone who has chosen to snub you like your father did. Has he tried to reach out to you at all since then?

KytchynWitche · January 2014

aefitz29 said:

mobkaz said:

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

I agree with @mobkaz

Unfortunately he put you in this tough spot and I can definitely understand not inviting your step mom but it may just cause more issues. I wouldn't send him an invitation and just accept any thing your grandparents want to think about it (they might actually understand you never know).

He chose his wife over his children and when you do things like that there are consequences (like missing your daughter's wedding). Especially when those children are trying to help and offer support for a crappy situation.

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I am sure whatever course of action you decide to take will be whatever is best for you and your family. This is merely my opinion and as I am not in it I cannot really say what is 'best.' Hope it all works out though!

Thanks.

I just don't want any more bitterness between me and my grandparents, especially as they then take it out on my mom, who doesn't deserve it. I don't want their relationship soured, especially seeing that neither of the GPs are in particularly good health. Y'know?

But at the same time, you're right. My dad made his choice. He put us in this situation. This whole thing is just so frustrating.

kmmssg · January 2014

You know, there are so many twists and turns here, I really feel for you Urbaneca. Alcoholism and addiction are rampant in my immediate family and have been for almost as long as I can remember. I am starkly familiar with interventions and telling people they are no longer welcome in your life if they don't get clean and/or sober.

Your dad apparently refuses to accept his wife is a raging alcoholic and not only denies it, he enables her behavior and makes excuses for it. He chose her instead of you.

From the etiquette stand point of doing the right thing you need to invite her because they are a couple. I do agree with mobkaz that this will be seen as a slap in the face. I also think your stepmother will use this as ammunition against you for the rest of eternity. That is a TON of ammunition! You need to think very carefully about this. She will be telling the world and any intergalactic alien what you have done to your father and she will elicit a tremendous amount of sympathy.

From where I sit and the experiences and counseling I have had here is my advice:

Take a look at the long hard road - the big picture many years down the road. What do you want that to look like? There is no right or wrong answer - only the one that is correct for you and your peace of mind.

I think if you only invite him you stand a chance of never being able to reconcile your relationship. When you think about your future, your possible children, family weddings, funerals, etc. how do you want that to go?

If you invite them both, you may want to consider having someone at the ready to escort them out if she gets out of hand. You will very busy with your other guests and won't be spending much time with them at all. Does this work for you?

I have cut out a sister (technically a cousin, but her parents raised me after my parents died when I was little and we were raised as sisters, refer to ourselves as sisters. She is an alcoholic. She is in denial. I do not expect her to be alive 3 years from now because it is apparent she is in advanced stages of liver cirrosis. She says her Dr says it is a digestive problem. Liar. I will not enable her, I have the most minimal contact with her as possible. If she dies next week I know I made the right decision and that she didn't want any help to get sober. This is the right decision for me. Others in the family have made a different decision and still enable her.

I don't see this as just an etiquette issue as some might. This is a family issue enveloped in alcoholism and your dad is the middle man. You do NOT have tolerate being treated horribly by her. You can set a healthy boundary of cutting her out of your life. If you do that, you will cut dad out too, as well as a chance to reconcile.

Make your list of pros and cons and decide what will be the best decision for the rest of your life, not just your wedding day. I truly empathize with your situation and do not envy you. I wish you the best in whatever decision you come to.

MobKaz · January 2014

urbaneca said:

mobkaz said:

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

Thanks for your input. I hear what you're saying, but that's why I want to include the note.

Whether I invite him or not, there will be drama. Having looked at it from every angle, inviting him and not stepmom is the lesser of two evils. My dad is, usually, a rational person, who will take the note and the invitation in the spirit in which it is meant.

This is about my dad, not about my stepmom. She is the type to take offense no matter what is done, so honestly, I don't give a damn if I insult her because I insult her just by breathing. I do however want to give my father the option of attending my wedding - if he then chooses not to because I won't invite his wife, then that's his right. I am NOT going to budge on this. I will NOT invite her, I will NOT have my wedding ruined by a tacky-ass drunk who can't stand not having the focus on her, I will NOT have a dry wedding so that I can invite her - that is unfair to the rest of my guests.

The idea that I have to invite the woman who ruined my parents' marriage simply because my father married her is laughable. She has made it quite clear over the last 7 years that she can't act like an adult, so I refuse to treat her like one. Etiquette be damned.

Sorry, that came off as a little more ranty than it was meant to... I really do appreciate the input.

By excluding her, you also offend your dad.

I am not trying to argue. I absolutely understand what you are saying and agree with the sentiment behind it. However, you are in a no-win situation, and I am only suggesting you consider all perspectives before moving forward. I am sorry you have to deal with this.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

aefitz29 said:

urbaneca said:

scribe95 said:

Unless you are also willing to invite HIS WIFE then I wouldn't send an invitation at all, frankly.

If it was anyone other than my father, I would not be inviting him at all.

However, we're having a small wedding which is almost entirely family, and if I don't invite him there will be drama greater than any drama which may be caused by inviting him and not his homewrecking wife. If I invite him and he chooses not to come, I can at least say "Well, I invited him and he didn't come." If I don't invite him at all, then my grandparents will spend their remaining years hating me because I'm petty.

It's a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.

If you don't want anyone misjudging you as petty then you have to invite his wife as well. It could be perceived as petty if you deny her being invited and just invite your father. I think all the judging may be assumed though. You never know what people can understand or have been through. They may not judge you at all for this.

Personally I think it would seem less petty to just not invite either of them. You are not splitting hairs and it is what it is. You do not have to invite someone who has chosen to snub you like your father did. Has he tried to reach out to you at all since then?

Nope. Not a phone call, not an email, not even a text.

It's probably best just to not invite him at all. But it feels wrong to not invite my dad. I mean, sure, he's been a really shitty father, but he's still my father, isn't he? His wife, however, is nothing of mine - she made that perfectly clear the last time I saw her.

PolarBearFitz · January 2014

@urbaneca - He is your father but is he really acting like it right now?

It is going to feel awful and wrong not to invite him. I think in light of the circumstances it is the best thing to do unless you can invite his wife. Not inviting her but still sending him an invite with or without a note will cause more problems.

He will regret missing an important time in his daughter's life and that is on him. It sucks to have to cut out a parent at all and I cannot imagine how that feels. You could try to reach out to him and extend an olive branch that has nothing to do with the wedding. Definitely not something you have to do but you could at least test the waters.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

kmmssg said:

You know, there are so many twists and turns here, I really feel for you Urbaneca. Alcoholism and addiction are rampant in my immediate family and have been for almost as long as I can remember. I am starkly familiar with interventions and telling people they are no longer welcome in your life if they don't get clean and/or sober.

Your dad apparently refuses to accept his wife is a raging alcoholic and not only denies it, he enables her behavior and makes excuses for it. He chose her instead of you.

From the etiquette stand point of doing the right thing you need to invite her because they are a couple. I do agree with mobkaz that this will be seen as a slap in the face. I also think your stepmother will use this as ammunition against you for the rest of eternity. That is a TON of ammunition! You need to think very carefully about this. She will be telling the world and any intergalactic alien what you have done to your father and she will elicit a tremendous amount of sympathy.

From where I sit and the experiences and counseling I have had here is my advice:

Take a look at the long hard road - the big picture many years down the road. What do you want that to look like? There is no right or wrong answer - only the one that is correct for you and your peace of mind.

I think if you only invite him you stand a chance of never being able to reconcile your relationship. When you think about your future, your possible children, family weddings, funerals, etc. how do you want that to go?

If you invite them both, you may want to consider having someone at the ready to escort them out if she gets out of hand. You will very busy with your other guests and won't be spending much time with them at all. Does this work for you?

I have cut out a sister (technically a cousin, but her parents raised me after my parents died when I was little and we were raised as sisters, refer to ourselves as sisters. She is an alcoholic. She is in denial. I do not expect her to be alive 3 years from now because it is apparent she is in advanced stages of liver cirrosis. She says her Dr says it is a digestive problem. Liar. I will not enable her, I have the most minimal contact with her as possible. If she dies next week I know I made the right decision and that she didn't want any help to get sober. This is the right decision for me. Others in the family have made a different decision and still enable her.

I don't see this as just an etiquette issue as some might. This is a family issue enveloped in alcoholism and your dad is the middle man. You do NOT have tolerate being treated horribly by her. You can set a healthy boundary of cutting her out of your life. If you do that, you will cut dad out too, as well as a chance to reconcile.

Make your list of pros and cons and decide what will be the best decision for the rest of your life, not just your wedding day. I truly empathize with your situation and do not envy you. I wish you the best in whatever decision you come to.

I'm sorry that you are also affected by this horrible disease.

If I do decide to send the invitation to him only, I'm prepared to accept that it may offend my dad, and that if he is offended by it, it will burn our bridges completely. I honestly don't believe that there is any hope for reconciliation between us, especially not as long as he is married to the homewrecker.

I am not prepared to invite stepmom. When she has her 10 years sober chip, maybe, but not before. Seeing as I'm getting married this October and not in 2024, that's just not an option.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and the sympathy.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

aefitz29 said:

@urbaneca - He is your father but is he really acting like it right now?

It is going to feel awful and wrong not to invite him. I think in light of the circumstances it is the best thing to do unless you can invite his wife. Not inviting her but still sending him an invite with or without a note will cause more problems.

He will regret missing an important time in his daughter's life and that is on him. It sucks to have to cut out a parent at all and I cannot imagine how that feels. You could try to reach out to him and extend an olive branch that has nothing to do with the wedding. Definitely not something you have to do but you could at least test the waters.

You're probably right.

I'm honestly not sure if I want anything to do with him beyond the wedding. In some ways I feel like re-establishing contact is pointless and I'm only going to get hurt again. Like a puppy who keeps going back to her master, even though he kicks her.

kmmssg · January 2014

urbaneca said:

kmmssg said:

You know, there are so many twists and turns here, I really feel for you Urbaneca. Alcoholism and addiction are rampant in my immediate family and have been for almost as long as I can remember. I am starkly familiar with interventions and telling people they are no longer welcome in your life if they don't get clean and/or sober.

Your dad apparently refuses to accept his wife is a raging alcoholic and not only denies it, he enables her behavior and makes excuses for it. He chose her instead of you.

From the etiquette stand point of doing the right thing you need to invite her because they are a couple. I do agree with mobkaz that this will be seen as a slap in the face. I also think your stepmother will use this as ammunition against you for the rest of eternity. That is a TON of ammunition! You need to think very carefully about this. She will be telling the world and any intergalactic alien what you have done to your father and she will elicit a tremendous amount of sympathy.

From where I sit and the experiences and counseling I have had here is my advice:

Take a look at the long hard road - the big picture many years down the road. What do you want that to look like? There is no right or wrong answer - only the one that is correct for you and your peace of mind.

I think if you only invite him you stand a chance of never being able to reconcile your relationship. When you think about your future, your possible children, family weddings, funerals, etc. how do you want that to go?

If you invite them both, you may want to consider having someone at the ready to escort them out if she gets out of hand. You will very busy with your other guests and won't be spending much time with them at all. Does this work for you?

I have cut out a sister (technically a cousin, but her parents raised me after my parents died when I was little and we were raised as sisters, refer to ourselves as sisters. She is an alcoholic. She is in denial. I do not expect her to be alive 3 years from now because it is apparent she is in advanced stages of liver cirrosis. She says her Dr says it is a digestive problem. Liar. I will not enable her, I have the most minimal contact with her as possible. If she dies next week I know I made the right decision and that she didn't want any help to get sober. This is the right decision for me. Others in the family have made a different decision and still enable her.

I don't see this as just an etiquette issue as some might. This is a family issue enveloped in alcoholism and your dad is the middle man. You do NOT have tolerate being treated horribly by her. You can set a healthy boundary of cutting her out of your life. If you do that, you will cut dad out too, as well as a chance to reconcile.

Make your list of pros and cons and decide what will be the best decision for the rest of your life, not just your wedding day. I truly empathize with your situation and do not envy you. I wish you the best in whatever decision you come to.
I'm sorry that you are also affected by this horrible disease.

If I do decide to send the invitation to him only, I'm prepared to accept that it may offend my dad, and that if he is offended by it, it will burn our bridges completely. I honestly don't believe that there is any hope for reconciliation between us, especially not as long as he is married to the homewrecker.

I am not prepared to invite stepmom. When she has her 10 years sober chip, maybe, but not before. Seeing as I'm getting married this October and not in 2024, that's just not an option.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and the sympathy.

You are the only one who knows what is right here, I just want you to REALLY consider what your stepmother will do with the fact you invited your dad and not her. Addicts and alcoholics are the very best liars and manipulators on the planet. She will use that against you til the day she dies. If you have really considered that and you are good with it then you have made the right decision. What kind of impact can she have with your father's family? Are you close to them now? How badly can she damage those relationships?

I know it sounds like I am probably trying to talk you into inviting her. I am not. I just want you to have the least amount of fallout possible.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

kmmssg said:

You are the only one who knows what is right here, I just want you to REALLY consider what your stepmother will do with the fact you invited your dad and not her. Addicts and alcoholics are the very best liars and manipulators on the planet. She will use that against you til the day she dies. If you have really considered that and you are good with it then you have made the right decision. What kind of impact can she have with your father's family? Are you close to them now? How badly can she damage those relationships?

I know it sounds like I am probably trying to talk you into inviting her. I am not. I just want you to have the least amount of fallout possible.

I'm not close to my father's family at all. When my parents got divorced they collectively told my mom, sibs and I to go fuck ourselves. When my brother came out, they collectively told him he would burn in hell forever, and told us that we would do the same for not trying to "save" him. I have contact with one of my dad's sisters who is my godmother, to the extent of maybe one Facebook message every 2-3 years, and I believe that she knows me better than to just believe what stepmom says. However, I'm not inviting her either, so that gives an indication of our relationship.

Stepmom basically has no leverage against me - if she wants to tell all her friends and family and my dad's family that I'm petty and inconsiderate and whatever else, that's fine. I have zero contact with them, and they have zero impact on my life.

PolarBearFitz · January 2014

urbaneca said:

kmmssg said:

You are the only one who knows what is right here, I just want you to REALLY consider what your stepmother will do with the fact you invited your dad and not her. Addicts and alcoholics are the very best liars and manipulators on the planet. She will use that against you til the day she dies. If you have really considered that and you are good with it then you have made the right decision. What kind of impact can she have with your father's family? Are you close to them now? How badly can she damage those relationships?

I know it sounds like I am probably trying to talk you into inviting her. I am not. I just want you to have the least amount of fallout possible.

I'm not close to my father's family at all. When my parents got divorced they collectively told my mom, sibs and I to go fuck ourselves. When my brother came out, they collectively told him he would burn in hell forever, and told us that we would do the same for not trying to "save" him. I have contact with one of my dad's sisters who is my godmother, to the extent of maybe one Facebook message every 2-3 years, and I believe that she knows me better than to just believe what stepmom says. However, I'm not inviting her either, so that gives an indication of our relationship.

Stepmom basically has no leverage against me - if she wants to tell all her friends and family and my dad's family that I'm petty and inconsiderate and whatever else, that's fine. I have zero contact with them, and they have zero impact on my life.

Based on what you just said here I would cut him out for now. No sense in having to stress over this for your wedding. Just enjoy the time with people who do love and care about you. IMHO your dad is acting like a giant child and should have better care and sense when it comes to his children (obviously judgey here sorry).

This should be a time you get to glow and enjoy. So do just that despite their negativity and poor decisions. It may be hard to be happy in the light of all this drama you have to deal with but try.

I always say kill them with kindness and when that doesn't work sometimes you just have to worry about your own mental and emotional health. I think in your case you're at the point where you just need to worry about you and your FI. It may feel weirdly selfish but I think it's time to just move forward with your own lives. Truly sorry it has to be this way for you.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

aefitz29 said:

Based on what you just said here I would cut him out for now. No sense in having to stress over this for your wedding. Just enjoy the time with people who do love and care about you. IMHO your dad is acting like a giant child and should have better care and sense when it comes to his children (obviously judgey here sorry).

This should be a time you get to glow and enjoy. So do just that despite their negativity and poor decisions. It may be hard to be happy in the light of all this drama you have to deal with but try.

I always say kill them with kindness and when that doesn't work sometimes you just have to worry about your own mental and emotional health. I think in your case you're at the point where you just need to worry about you and your FI. It may feel weirdly selfish but I think it's time to just move forward with your own lives. Truly sorry it has to be this way for you.

I think you're probably right.

I'll talk it over with FI, and see what he says, but it probably is time to just cut him out altogether.

Thanks.

MyNameIsNot · January 2014

urbaneca said:

aefitz29 said:

@urbaneca - He is your father but is he really acting like it right now?

It is going to feel awful and wrong not to invite him. I think in light of the circumstances it is the best thing to do unless you can invite his wife. Not inviting her but still sending him an invite with or without a note will cause more problems.

He will regret missing an important time in his daughter's life and that is on him. It sucks to have to cut out a parent at all and I cannot imagine how that feels. You could try to reach out to him and extend an olive branch that has nothing to do with the wedding. Definitely not something you have to do but you could at least test the waters.

You're probably right.

I'm honestly not sure if I want anything to do with him beyond the wedding. In some ways I feel like re-establishing contact is pointless and I'm only going to get hurt again. Like a puppy who keeps going back to her master, even though he kicks her.

This is exactly it. Your dad has already told you that he chooses his wife over you and your sister. While I can't imagine how painful that must be, inviting him is just going back to let him kick you again. He's not going to change his mind and choose you over the step-mom. No matter what you say in the letter, inviting him without her is going to make him think that you are trying to get him to change his mind and pick you this time. He's not going to change it, and you are just going to get hurt.

October is still quite a while away. I would leave this alone for now and see what happens. If nothing changes in your relationship in the next 6 months, I would not invite him. DNA does not make a relationship. He needs to earn a place in your life.

MrsMack10612 · January 2014

@urbaneca - I can so relate. Without the alcoholism (which adds a whole different layer), I have an asshat for a father who also cheated on my mom and married the woman. They have been married for close to 30 years and had a 2nd family.

I have been mostly estranged from him for most of those years and I spent many of them bashing my head into the same wall expecting him to suddenly see the light that he screwed up and would suddenly become my "dad" again. I was never part of his new family unit, even though I was a kid at the time, his wife never mothered me, I was never given the opportunity to treat his children with her as siblings.

When it came around to the wedding last year, I had some tough decisions to make. I made them and discussed them (mostly calmly) with him. He told me he understood, made commitments that he then broke and made a grand spectacle of drama. My siblings and I (I am the youngest of 4) all gave him both barrels about what an ass he was being; I continued to hope that things would change. Nothing did.

My mother passed away 1/4/14. I called him to tell him out of basic human courtesy. I got a one line email and none of my sibs have heard from him. I certainly had not expectation of him breaking down in tears, but an expectation that he would show concern for his children that just lost there mother. He continues to not change.

I tell you all of this because I think it would have been easier years ago if he had just made the clean break and cut us all off rather than the half-hearted & heartbreaking bullshit that's gone on for the last 30 years.

If you cannot bring yourself to invite his wife; then don't invite him at all. Cut the ties. Start clean with your marriage of just not having your dad in your life at all. I can almost guarantee that the hurt and heartache you feel now, will pass when you've realized you made the right decision and save yourself years of heartache down the line.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

MrsMack10612 said:

@urbaneca - I can so relate. Without the alcoholism (which adds a whole different layer), I have an asshat for a father who also cheated on my mom and married the woman. They have been married for close to 30 years and had a 2nd family.

I have been mostly estranged from him for most of those years and I spent many of them bashing my head into the same wall expecting him to suddenly see the light that he screwed up and would suddenly become my "dad" again. I was never part of his new family unit, even though I was a kid at the time, his wife never mothered me, I was never given the opportunity to treat his children with her as siblings.

When it came around to the wedding last year, I had some tough decisions to make. I made them and discussed them (mostly calmly) with him. He told me he understood, made commitments that he then broke and made a grand spectacle of drama. My siblings and I (I am the youngest of 4) all gave him both barrels about what an ass he was being; I continued to hope that things would change. Nothing did.

My mother passed away 1/4/14. I called him to tell him out of basic human courtesy. I got a one line email and none of my sibs have heard from him. I certainly had not expectation of him breaking down in tears, but an expectation that he would show concern for his children that just lost there mother. He continues to not change.

I tell you all of this because I think it would have been easier years ago if he had just made the clean break and cut us all off rather than the half-hearted & heartbreaking bullshit that's gone on for the last 30 years.

If you cannot bring yourself to invite his wife; then don't invite him at all. Cut the ties. Start clean with your marriage of just not having your dad in your life at all. I can almost guarantee that the hurt and heartache you feel now, will pass when you've realized you made the right decision and save yourself years of heartache down the line.

I'm sorry about your mom. And I'm sorry about your dad.

Thanks for the advice. I've decided to just not do anything about it for now. I'll re-evaluate when STD send-out time rolls around.

firebabe6519 · January 2014

Personally, I would just cut them both out of the wedding. He is being childish and not acting like a parent whatsoever. If however, you do invite him, I would suggest inviting step mom too unless you want to end all chances of a relationship ever.

One thing you can do about the drunk SM is to give her picture to the bartenders and inform them that she is a known alcoholic and cannot be served. I know in Missouri and Texas it is illegal and can even result in jail time if a bartender serves alcohol to a known alcoholic. :-)

KytchynWitche · January 2014

firebabe6519 said:

One thing you can do about the drunk SM is to give her picture to the bartenders and inform them that she is a known alcoholic and cannot be served. I know in Missouri and Texas it is illegal and can even result in jail time if a bartender serves alcohol to a known alcoholic. :-)

I did not know that! That's very cool!

Sadly, I don't think we have any laws like that here in South Africa. But I will definitely talk to the venue anyway if we do somehow decide to invite them both.

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

These other ladies gave great advice. I'm sorry you are in this position. If your grandparents say anything, I think you have every right to tell them your dad chose to have a life with his wife and not his daughters. It is truly his own fault that he was not invited or attending the wedding. Also, encourage your mom to stand up for herself against her parents if they try to say negative things to her. "Mom and Dad, Urbaneca is an adult and if you have a problem with her interactions with her father, you can speak with her about it."

Also, you should be calling your father the homewrecker too. He is just as much, if not more responsible than your stepmother.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

OliveOilsMom said:

These other ladies gave great advice. I'm sorry you are in this position. If your grandparents say anything, I think you have every right to tell them your dad chose to have a life with his wife and not his daughters. It is truly his own fault that he was not invited or attending the wedding. Also, encourage your mom to stand up for herself against her parents if they try to say negative things to her. "Mom and Dad, Urbaneca is an adult and if you have a problem with her interactions with her father, you can speak with her about it."

Also, you should be calling your father the homewrecker too. He is just as much, if not more responsible than your stepmother.

You're absolutely right. Especially on the homewrecker thing.

MrsMack10612 · January 2014

urbaneca said:

OliveOilsMom said:

These other ladies gave great advice. I'm sorry you are in this position. If your grandparents say anything, I think you have every right to tell them your dad chose to have a life with his wife and not his daughters. It is truly his own fault that he was not invited or attending the wedding. Also, encourage your mom to stand up for herself against her parents if they try to say negative things to her. "Mom and Dad, Urbaneca is an adult and if you have a problem with her interactions with her father, you can speak with her about it."

Also, you should be calling your father the homewrecker too. He is just as much, if not more responsible than your stepmother.

You're absolutely right. Especially on the homewrecker thing.

I've always more blamed my dad then her; but I blame her for taking my dad away.

HisGirlFriday13 · January 2014

I agree with @mobkaz that inviting just him will probably do more damage than you anticipate. If you invite them both, do you think they'll come? Or is her hatred of you so strong that she'd make your father boycott your wedding?

Also, while I understand your desire to invite him to save face with your grandparents, part of being an adult who is old enough to get married is being an adult who is old enough to say, 'He was not invited for reasons I am not willing to discuss.'

If your grandparents judge you or your mother, that's on them, not you.

ShesSoCold · January 2014

I agree that it may be best for you to not invite either of them. If your concern is looking back on your life having not invited your father to your wedding, you'll know that you had a good, perfectly valid reason not to. Even if he comes around in the next year/decade/whatever, you'll know that you did what was best for you at the time. Producing a baby doesn't make you a father and he's proven that he's not a father. I sympathize with you and yes, it sucks - bad - that your father may not attend your wedding but it may be the best thing for you.

HaileyDancingbear · January 2014

urbaneca said:

aefitz29 said:

@urbaneca - He is your father but is he really acting like it right now?

It is going to feel awful and wrong not to invite him. I think in light of the circumstances it is the best thing to do unless you can invite his wife. Not inviting her but still sending him an invite with or without a note will cause more problems.

He will regret missing an important time in his daughter's life and that is on him. It sucks to have to cut out a parent at all and I cannot imagine how that feels. You could try to reach out to him and extend an olive branch that has nothing to do with the wedding. Definitely not something you have to do but you could at least test the waters.

You're probably right.

I'm honestly not sure if I want anything to do with him beyond the wedding. In some ways I feel like re-establishing contact is pointless and I'm only going to get hurt again. Like a puppy who keeps going back to her master, even though he kicks her.

Then don't invite him. Honestly, I don't think his behaviors, especially flat-out telling you he chooses stepmom over his own children, gives him the right to call himself your dad.

The way I see it, a parent has to earn their right to call themselves a parent. When a mother uses a sperm donor to become pregnant, he is the biological father, but he isn't the child's "dad", he doesn't get father's day cards, he doesn't expect to walk that child down the aisle, etc. and when the child is asked who their family is, they don't recite the sperm donor's name. They talk about their mom because that's who raised them and loved them and was the parent to them, and that's the only thing that really matters in the end.

Listen, you don't owe him anything. You don't owe him an invite, you don't owe him a chance to redeem himself (Which, given that he's already chosen stepmom over you, and it's a slap in the face to not invite her, he will only use this chance to become more angry and resentful.) When there are people in your life that cause you misery and hurt you, you don't have to keep them around. It's better to move on, focus on the people in your life that make you happy, and forget those who hurt you. Spend your wedding day with people who love and support you.

Honestly I feel that you're going to feel a lot more regret looking back on your life if you keep him in your life and continue to be hurt by him, than you would if you cut him out and live a much happier life. If him not being a part of your life makes your life happier, then there is nothing to regret.

It sounds like your grandparents don't understand the whole situation and how you feel about it if they're so upset at you and your mom about it. A better gesture to subdue drama would be to talk to them about how you feel, and at the end of the day, if they still don't understand, oh well. You are ALWAYS going to piss off and disappoint people, no matter what you do. Especially in this situation, so you might as well just make sure you're happy. At the very least talking to them about it now will give them time to get over it before your wedding.

jenniferurs · January 2014

urbaneca said:

aefitz29 said:

mobkaz said:

I empathize with your situation. And I can understand it. However, you said that your father basically chose his current wife over you and your sister.

Sending him an invitation, and excluding his wife, will only be seen as a slap in the face to him and his wife. It in no way will come across as any peace offering or olive branch. It will come across as a deliberate insult. Her drinking problem aside, it IS an insult to invite half of a social unit to your wedding. That is not a courtesy invitation. There is no way your father can respond positively to this invitation without insulting his wife. He has made it clear that won't happen when the choice is between she and you.

If you are simply sending this out to "be the bigger person", you need to decide if you can send an invitation to both. If you can't, you need to reconsider sending any invitation at all.

I agree with @mobkaz

Unfortunately he put you in this tough spot and I can definitely understand not inviting your step mom but it may just cause more issues. I wouldn't send him an invitation and just accept any thing your grandparents want to think about it (they might actually understand you never know).

He chose his wife over his children and when you do things like that there are consequences (like missing your daughter's wedding). Especially when those children are trying to help and offer support for a crappy situation.

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I am sure whatever course of action you decide to take will be whatever is best for you and your family. This is merely my opinion and as I am not in it I cannot really say what is 'best.' Hope it all works out though!

Thanks.

I just don't want any more bitterness between me and my grandparents, especially as they then take it out on my mom, who doesn't deserve it. I don't want their relationship soured, especially seeing that neither of the GPs are in particularly good health. Y'know?

But at the same time, you're right. My dad made his choice. He put us in this situation. This whole thing is just so frustrating.

I'm struggling to understand why your mom's parents would even want him there after he left their daughter for another woman.

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