NWR: Help with ex-employee

hlvonb · January 2014

I need help. My boss and I have been trying to get our uniform shirt back from someone who we're no longer keeping employed since she did a no call no show her first day of training and never showed up or called after that.

Since I am the Office Manager it falls in my lap to deal with it. I have been calling her for 2 or 3 weeks and on the times I do get a hold of her she says either she's going to call the boss / owner of the company and doesn't or that she will bring it after she gets off work. I ask what time that would be around and she says she will call the owner and tell him but never does.

Today he told me to be forceful since these shirts cost about $75 each. What can I say or do (without me losing my job)? I have tried everything. I even tried saying that another employee needs it asap because their shirt is ruined and that we will get her another once she starts working at her account and still nothing.

JCbride2015 · January 2014

I assume you already tried it-- but can you offer to come pick the shirt up from her?

Or you could try threatening to report the theft to the police. It is a theft, technically.

manateehugger · January 2014

Stop playing the middle man and set up a time for her to bring it to you. She doesn't need to call the owner; she can talk to you.

I'd consider threatening to call law enforcement and see what she makes of it. Does it say anything in her uniform in your employment contract?

smalfrie19 · January 2014

yep, let her know that if she doesn't return it by end of week you will report it as stolen

hlvonb · January 2014

JCBride2014 said:

I assume you already tried it-- but can you offer to come pick the shirt up from her?

Or you could try threatening to report the theft to the police. It is a theft, technically.

@JCBride2014

I tried the picking it up and no luck. The police was my next thought but I am not sure how / if my boss would like that idea.

hlvonb · January 2014

PDKH said:

Stop playing the middle man and set up a time for her to bring it to you. She doesn't need to call the owner; she can talk to you.

I'd consider threatening to call law enforcement and see what she makes of it. Does it say anything in her uniform in your employment contract?

@PDKH

I am not intentionally playing the middle man. She won't talk to me. She will actually hang up and not answer when I call her back until the next day.

Yes, her contract says that she agrees to pay $75 when she leaves the company whether by termination or her own free will if she does not return the shirt.

MyNameIsNot · January 2014

I would threaten to turn her over to collections if she won't return the shirt. You have a contract, so you could refer it.

It's not enough to justify small claims, and it's doubtful that the police can/will do anything, but the threat of having it turn up on her credit report might change her mind. Of course, this only works if you have the ability to actually do it.

erinlin25 · January 2014

if the contract says she agrees to pay if not returned, send her a bill...and when she does not pay it, send it to collections. Send a WRITTEN notice so it is in writing stating she has so many days to return the shirt or pay the $75 and what her consequences will be if payment/shirt is not received. Send it from the post office and get a sign confirmation or send it certified mail so there is tracking and a signature with the delivery. Keep a log of any phone calls made: date when you called her--what time, did she answer? No answer, message left, etc. Inform her you are the person she needs to talk to, not your boss. When you send the letter you need to sign it with send payment made payable to "your company" and send it cc your name at your company address. That way it is clear what her directions were (or she will say she just tried to get a hold of your boss and got no response). You can also try to arrange a "meeting" where you can go to her and pick up the shirt--if she flakes, make record of it. Any sort of communication needs to be recorded so if she ever tries to say "they did not tell me, or that is not true" you have record of all interaction.

I am not sure if the police will do much for a $75 bill, but it always worth a phone call to find out what your rights are. I think it has to be a certain amount for it to significant enough for police to get involved but that many vary from city to city.

hlvonb · January 2014

MyNameIsNot said:

I would threaten to turn her over to collections if she won't return the shirt. You have a contract, so you could refer it.

It's not enough to justify small claims, and it's doubtful that the police can/will do anything, but the threat of having it turn up on her credit report might change her mind. Of course, this only works if you have the ability to actually do it.

@MyNameIsNot

I MIGHT be able to have it show on her credit but I think I would have to send her a bill for the shirt and if she doesn't pay then send it to collections, etc.

hlvonb · January 2014

erinlin25 said:

if the contract says she agrees to pay if not returned, send her a bill...and when she does not pay it, send it to collections. Send a WRITTEN notice so it is in writing stating she has so many days to return the shirt or pay the $75 and what her consequences will be if payment/shirt is not received. Send it from the post office and get a sign confirmation or send it certified mail so there is tracking and a signature with the delivery. Keep a log of any phone calls made: date when you called her--what time, did she answer? No answer, message left, etc. Inform her you are the person she needs to talk to, not your boss. When you send the letter you need to sign it with send payment made payable to "your company" and send it cc your name at your company address. That way it is clear what her directions were (or she will say she just tried to get a hold of your boss and got no response). You can also try to arrange a "meeting" where you can go to her and pick up the shirt--if she flakes, make record of it. Any sort of communication needs to be recorded so if she ever tries to say "they did not tell me, or that is not true" you have record of all interaction.

I am not sure if the police will do much for a $75 bill, but it always worth a phone call to find out what your rights are. I think it has to be a certain amount for it to significant enough for police to get involved but that many vary from city to city.

@erinlin25

I think the bill idea might be our best bet. Of course my boss is unsure about doing so but I think I can get him to agree to it. I tried calling a few minutes ago and I think she may have blocked the number.

lc07 · January 2014

Sounds like a lot of trouble and wasted time on your part for $75. I wonder if your boss has had to pay you more than that at this point in your time/efforts to collect.

hlvonb · January 2014

lc07 said:

Sounds like a lot of trouble and wasted time on your part for $75. I wonder if your boss has had to pay you more than that at this point in your time/efforts to collect.

@Ic07

I would like to just let it go at this point but can't because what the boss says goes. And he's not asking me to do anything that breaks my moral or religious beliefs or endangering my health etc so I guess I just have to deal with it until the time comes where it's resolved one way or another.

CaliMel11 · January 2014

Just send her a letter stating that the shirt must be returned. Is there somewhere she can leave it at off hours?
Also, your boss needs to sign the letter and they should really be the one calling. you've done your part already!

MadHops21 · January 2014

I agree with all PP and have nothing helpful to add, but I'm hoping you update us on this! Very interesting and I would be so frustrated if I were you at this point.

lc07 · January 2014

hlvonb said:

lc07 said:

Sounds like a lot of trouble and wasted time on your part for $75. I wonder if your boss has had to pay you more than that at this point in your time/efforts to collect.

@Ic07
I would like to just let it go at this point but can't because what the boss says goes. And he's not asking me to do anything that breaks my moral or religious beliefs or endangering my health etc so I guess I just have to deal with it until the time comes where it's resolved one way or another.

Yeah, but it probably wouldn't hurt to point out that it's taking a lot of resources and time that could be allocated to more important things. Unless there's some fear that this ex-employee would wear the shirt and misrepresent your brand or something. IDK. Seems like a lot of trouble for a shirt. I own two businesses so I just can't fathom getting hung up about $75. Must be something more than just the expense of the shirt.

KytchynWitche · January 2014

All you can really do is bill her for the shirt, and then hand her over to collections if she doesn't pay. I don't know what the laws are like where you are, if your company could lay a charge of theft, or if the police would even do anything about it if you did.

We had a similar problem when I was managing the video store, where a former employee took several of our DVDs as well as a set of keys. After 6 weeks of not being able to reach her directly, emailing her, SMSing her, leaving voicemails for her, and sending messages through her brother who was still an employee, I handed her over to our collections/repo agency - and I gave them all of her brother's info as well, she was living in a commune at the time and he was still living with their parents. He claimed that they had no contact with her. The collections people went round to her house and had no luck, so they visited him, scared the crap out of his parents by the mere fact that they were collections people, but still no sign of the sister.

A few days later, the brother came in to take over from me for the closer, and asked if it was really necessary to send those people after him. I replied that yes, the DVDs were worth more than his sister's last wageslip, and the keys were a security concern, and that if the collections agency was unable to get the things back for us, we'd be forced to press charges and his sister would end up in jail.

Suddenly he could get hold of her, he would see her on Sunday, and bring everything with him to work the next week. We got our things back, we released the sister's wages to him (we weren't purposefully withholding them or anything, but she never came to pick up her pay after last shift), and that was the end of it. Oh, and we had all the locks changed because who knows what she did with the keys while she had them.

hlvonb · January 2014

CaliMel11 said:

Just send her a letter stating that the shirt must be returned. Is there somewhere she can leave it at off hours?
Also, your boss needs to sign the letter and they should really be the one calling. you've done your part already!

@CaliMel11

We're a security company so there are security people at the office 24/7

hlvonb · January 2014

Kelcita21 said:

I agree with all PP and have nothing helpful to add, but I'm hoping you update us on this! Very interesting and I would be so frustrated if I were you at this point.

@Kelcita21

I am frustrated but there's nothing I can do besides keep doing what I am told. I told my boss our options and he still wants to continue with the calling for now I guess.

hlvonb · January 2014

lc07 said:

hlvonb said:

lc07 said:

Sounds like a lot of trouble and wasted time on your part for $75. I wonder if your boss has had to pay you more than that at this point in your time/efforts to collect.

@Ic07
I would like to just let it go at this point but can't because what the boss says goes. And he's not asking me to do anything that breaks my moral or religious beliefs or endangering my health etc so I guess I just have to deal with it until the time comes where it's resolved one way or another.

Yeah, but it probably wouldn't hurt to point out that it's taking a lot of resources and time that could be allocated to more important things. Unless there's some fear that this ex-employee would wear the shirt and misrepresent your brand or something. IDK. Seems like a lot of trouble for a shirt. I own two businesses so I just can't fathom getting hung up about $75. Must be something more than just the expense of the shirt.

@Ic07

I pointed that out to him and told him about our other options but this is still how he wants me to handle it...

The point about a fear of the ex-employee wearing the shirt and misrepresenting the company is possibly valid since we are a security company

hlvonb · January 2014

urbaneca said:

All you can really do is bill her for the shirt, and then hand her over to collections if she doesn't pay. I don't know what the laws are like where you are, if your company could lay a charge of theft, or if the police would even do anything about it if you did.

We had a similar problem when I was managing the video store, where a former employee took several of our DVDs as well as a set of keys. After 6 weeks of not being able to reach her directly, emailing her, SMSing her, leaving voicemails for her, and sending messages through her brother who was still an employee, I handed her over to our collections/repo agency - and I gave them all of her brother's info as well, she was living in a commune at the time and he was still living with their parents. He claimed that they had no contact with her. The collections people went round to her house and had no luck, so they visited him, scared the crap out of his parents by the mere fact that they were collections people, but still no sign of the sister.

A few days later, the brother came in to take over from me for the closer, and asked if it was really necessary to send those people after him. I replied that yes, the DVDs were worth more than his sister's last wageslip, and the keys were a security concern, and that if the collections agency was unable to get the things back for us, we'd be forced to press charges and his sister would end up in jail.

Suddenly he could get hold of her, he would see her on Sunday, and bring everything with him to work the next week. We got our things back, we released the sister's wages to him (we weren't purposefully withholding them or anything, but she never came to pick up her pay after last shift), and that was the end of it. Oh, and we had all the locks changed because who knows what she did with the keys while she had them.

@urbaneca

I am working on getting my boss to just let me bill the person for the shirt but so far no luck. My boss still wants me to try calling again and again lol

KytchynWitche · January 2014

hlvonb said:

urbaneca said:

All you can really do is bill her for the shirt, and then hand her over to collections if she doesn't pay. I don't know what the laws are like where you are, if your company could lay a charge of theft, or if the police would even do anything about it if you did.

We had a similar problem when I was managing the video store, where a former employee took several of our DVDs as well as a set of keys. After 6 weeks of not being able to reach her directly, emailing her, SMSing her, leaving voicemails for her, and sending messages through her brother who was still an employee, I handed her over to our collections/repo agency - and I gave them all of her brother's info as well, she was living in a commune at the time and he was still living with their parents. He claimed that they had no contact with her. The collections people went round to her house and had no luck, so they visited him, scared the crap out of his parents by the mere fact that they were collections people, but still no sign of the sister.

A few days later, the brother came in to take over from me for the closer, and asked if it was really necessary to send those people after him. I replied that yes, the DVDs were worth more than his sister's last wageslip, and the keys were a security concern, and that if the collections agency was unable to get the things back for us, we'd be forced to press charges and his sister would end up in jail.

Suddenly he could get hold of her, he would see her on Sunday, and bring everything with him to work the next week. We got our things back, we released the sister's wages to him (we weren't purposefully withholding them or anything, but she never came to pick up her pay after last shift), and that was the end of it. Oh, and we had all the locks changed because who knows what she did with the keys while she had them.

@urbaneca

I am working on getting my boss to just let me bill the person for the shirt but so far no luck. My boss still wants me to try calling again and again lol

Then that's a battle your boss is going to lose. If she's not responding to calls, it's time to do something else.

Maybe gently remind your boss that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

cruffino · January 2014

I can be a little nutty, but I might call her every hour, on the hour, leaving lots of cheerful messages. She might get sick of that.

KPBM89 · January 2014

Maybe she's a con artist! She wants to wear the shirt and pretend to be security so she can be sneaky! Sorry (don't mean to freak you out or anything), I watch a lot of Investigation Discovery and they show the craziest shit.

I worked for a very well known athletic brand for over 5 years. When hired, you got a free pair of shoes and some free clothes. We intentionally waited until the new hires completed the 2 week training before we would give them staff dress. One time (like my first year there, before I was the manager), they gave out staff dress on the first day. One guy basically got his free stuff and left. He apparently moved to a different state, too, and was like a wanted man or something crazy!

KatWAG · January 2014

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

MyNameIsNot · January 2014

KatWAG said:

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

If she no call/no showed her first day, she probably doesn't have any pay to speak of.

hlvonb · January 2014

urbaneca said:

hlvonb said:

urbaneca said:

All you can really do is bill her for the shirt, and then hand her over to collections if she doesn't pay. I don't know what the laws are like where you are, if your company could lay a charge of theft, or if the police would even do anything about it if you did.

We had a similar problem when I was managing the video store, where a former employee took several of our DVDs as well as a set of keys. After 6 weeks of not being able to reach her directly, emailing her, SMSing her, leaving voicemails for her, and sending messages through her brother who was still an employee, I handed her over to our collections/repo agency - and I gave them all of her brother's info as well, she was living in a commune at the time and he was still living with their parents. He claimed that they had no contact with her. The collections people went round to her house and had no luck, so they visited him, scared the crap out of his parents by the mere fact that they were collections people, but still no sign of the sister.

A few days later, the brother came in to take over from me for the closer, and asked if it was really necessary to send those people after him. I replied that yes, the DVDs were worth more than his sister's last wageslip, and the keys were a security concern, and that if the collections agency was unable to get the things back for us, we'd be forced to press charges and his sister would end up in jail.

Suddenly he could get hold of her, he would see her on Sunday, and bring everything with him to work the next week. We got our things back, we released the sister's wages to him (we weren't purposefully withholding them or anything, but she never came to pick up her pay after last shift), and that was the end of it. Oh, and we had all the locks changed because who knows what she did with the keys while she had them.

@urbaneca

I am working on getting my boss to just let me bill the person for the shirt but so far no luck. My boss still wants me to try calling again and again lol

Then that's a battle your boss is going to lose. If she's not responding to calls, it's time to do something else.

Maybe gently remind your boss that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

@urbaneca

I told my boss that she blocked our phone number. Let's see what that does lol

hlvonb · January 2014

cruffino said:

I can be a little nutty, but I might call her every hour, on the hour, leaving lots of cheerful messages. She might get sick of that.

@cruffino

That's what I did. Lol. I purposely put a big smile on my face when I hear her voicemail and leave an overly friendly / happy message. Nothing. I have tried all variations of tones / messages too and also nothing.

hlvonb · January 2014

KatWAG said:

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

@KatWAG

Just like @MyNameIsNot said, she doesn't have a paycheck because she no called no showed her first day otherwise yes, that is exactly what we would do

KytchynWitche · January 2014

hlvonb said:

KatWAG said:

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

@KatWAG
Just like @MyNameIsNot said, she doesn't have a paycheck because she no called no showed her first day otherwise yes, that is exactly what we would do

Also, I don't know what the laws are there, but here it's illegal to purposefully withhold an employee/former-employee's paycheck against any kind of debt, unless it's specifically stated in the employment contract that the company will do so should there me any money owed to the company by the employee at the time of their leaving.

hlvonb · January 2014

urbaneca said:

hlvonb said:

KatWAG said:

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

@KatWAG
Just like @MyNameIsNot said, she doesn't have a paycheck because she no called no showed her first day otherwise yes, that is exactly what we would do

Also, I don't know what the laws are there, but here it's illegal to purposefully withhold an employee/former-employee's paycheck against any kind of debt, unless it's specifically stated in the employment contract that the company will do so should there me any money owed to the company by the employee at the time of their leaving.

@urbaneca

The form all employees signed says that we have the right to hold or deduct payments from checks for XYZ...

KytchynWitche · January 2014

hlvonb said:

urbaneca said:

hlvonb said:

KatWAG said:

Can you withhold $75 from her last paycheck?

@KatWAG
Just like @MyNameIsNot said, she doesn't have a paycheck because she no called no showed her first day otherwise yes, that is exactly what we would do

Also, I don't know what the laws are there, but here it's illegal to purposefully withhold an employee/former-employee's paycheck against any kind of debt, unless it's specifically stated in the employment contract that the company will do so should there me any money owed to the company by the employee at the time of their leaving.

@urbaneca

The form all employees signed says that we have the right to hold or deduct payments from checks for XYZ...

Ah, cool. Then you're covered. But obviously seeing as she doesn't have a check to deduct from, you're also not.

NWR: Help with ex-employee

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