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Getting married before a DW?

Sars06Sars06 member
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in Wedding Etiquette Forum
One of my best friends is getting married this weekend. The wedding is in another country, so my fiance and I are traveling quite a distance to attend. Well, I opened up the paper yesterday morning to see their wedding announcement! They were married "officially" in a civil ceremony this past weekend and had the announcement published.

Is this common? For couples who got married out of the US, were you required to have a civil ceremony in the US in order to make it legal? I thought that the US generally recognized marriages that took place in other countries - is that not always the case? I am just feeling disappointed that I wasn't there for the real thing.

To be clear, I am very happy for my friend - she and her husband are wonderful people, and I love them. I've just been looking forward to seeing them get married, and I feel like this takes the wind out of my sails a bit. I'm still excited to celebrate with them, but I'm bummed that I won't actually be seeing them get married. There's something so special about that moment when it's really official!
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Re: Getting married before a DW?

  • s-aries8990s-aries8990 member
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 1000 Comments Name Dropper
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.


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  • mrsetwinmiller2bmrsetwinmiller2b member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Some countries have a requirement regarding how much time one has to spend in the country prior to being married in a legally binding ceremony there.  I also, in the course of researching a destination wedding, found out that some countries have a waiting period that must be observed after a divorce.  And Mexico specifically was going to require up to two months to have the marriage certificate translated officially for registration of the marriage in the United States.  Perhaps these were conditions that just didn't work for your friend?  

    That being said, I can understand why this would sting a little.  I'm personally curious about why they didn't have their DW ceremony first and then be married in a civil ceremony after their return.  I'm glad that you're still happy to celebrate with them, though!
    image 108 invited.
    image 95 will be celebrating with us.
    image 13 will be there in spirit...
    (including the uninvited cousins who
    RSVP-ed and then cancelled after 
    realizing that it wasn't a great time
    to travel to our city....) 
    image 0 are keeping us guessing!



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  • LondonLisaLondonLisa member
    Eighth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    It was very rude of your friends to do this. If one does not want to go through the hoops of getting married in a foreign country, one should not have a DW. Yes, marriages in other countries are legal in the US, but in some cases they have to jump through some hoops to do it (but not impossible). Some people are unwilling (read: too lazy) to go through the formalities of that country but feel they are entitled to a "wedding" in that country. How hurtful to find this out after spending money to witness their marriage. I completely agree with you about missing that moment where it is official. Your friends actions are rude, thoughtless and selfish. 

    Lurkers:  here is a prime example of friends being upset and hurt by PPD destination weddings/ "paper weddings" etc but not saying anything to your face about it. Don't put people you care about in this position!
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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    I just want reiterate that my friend and her husband are literally the sweetest people on earth and would never do anything ungracious, so I really don't think this is AWish or a PPD or anything like that. I just don't understand why it was necessary.
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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    mrsetwinmiller2b said:
    Some countries have a requirement regarding how much time one has to spend in the country prior to being married in a legally binding ceremony there.  I also, in the course of researching a destination wedding, found out that some countries have a waiting period that must be observed after a divorce.  And Mexico specifically was going to require up to two months to have the marriage certificate translated officially for registration of the marriage in the United States.  Perhaps these were conditions that just didn't work for your friend?  

    That being said, I can understand why this would sting a little.  I'm personally curious about why they didn't have their DW ceremony first and then be married in a civil ceremony after their return.  I'm glad that you're still happy to celebrate with them, though!
    For some reason, I would feel a lot better about that. Now it feels like the exciting part already happened and I just missed it. 
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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    LondonLisa said:
    I'm sure they are very nice, but these actions are very thoughtless. This is literally the definition of a pretty princess day. It might be naivete instead of malice, but it is still nasty and hurtful nonetheless.

    With regards to the legal requirements like Mexico or other countries, they should have not have chosen to get married there if they could not do it legally. Why have a fake wedding somewhere you cannot be married??
    They have family there. Also, it will be a religious ceremony while the one that already happened was a civil ceremony. I don't know if that makes a difference in how people view it. My fiance and I are having only a civil ceremony, so I consider the legal part to be equally important. I know not everyone feels that way.
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  • cowgirl8238cowgirl8238 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    I;m with you in that the ceremony they are now having will not be near as special since they are legally married.  I am not sure why they decided to publish the announcement in the paper before their "wedding".  That seems the most strange to me.  Anyway, go and have a good time, it sounds like you will
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  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers First Anniversary
    I was in a DW for a friend who was born in another country and now lives here. Her home-country priest required them to be married here before he would perform their religious ceremony at home. She had a party here for people who asked to celebrate with her but couldn't make the trip (which I also attended) and had her Catholic wedding the following week at her church in Brazil. It didn't bother me a bit. People seemed to understand that while the civil ceremony here was required for their pending citizenship, their religious ceremony at home was what they needed to consider themselves "married." Civil ceremony made her married in the eyes of Uncle Sam; Catholic ceremony made her married in the eyes of God. It wasn't "fake" to them or to us just because religious and governmental priorities clashed. If we only go by the political act of marriage, that happens when you sign the marriage license and most of us don't witness that anyway. 
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  • Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    Lolo8383 said:
    I was in a DW for a friend who was born in another country and now lives here. Her home-country priest required them to be married here before he would perform their religious ceremony at home. She had a party here for people who asked to celebrate with her but couldn't make the trip (which I also attended) and had her Catholic wedding the following week at her church in Brazil. It didn't bother me a bit. People seemed to understand that while the civil ceremony here was required for their pending citizenship, their religious ceremony at home was what they needed to consider themselves "married." Civil ceremony made her married in the eyes of Uncle Sam; Catholic ceremony made her married in the eyes of God. It wasn't "fake" to them or to us just because religious and governmental priorities clashed. If we only go by the political act of marriage, that happens when you sign the marriage license and most of us don't witness that anyway. 
    Doesn't matter what makes them "feel" married-the first wedding is the one that makes you "married" per etiquette-whether or not the couple want to consider themselves "married."  If they want to claim the legal, religious, social, or whatever benefits of marriage, then it is rude and fraudulent to have a secret legal ceremony to do so while pretending not to be "married" so they can have a big bells-whistles-party "wedding" later.
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  • Sars06Sars06 member
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    Lolo8383 said:
    If we only go by the political act of marriage, that happens when you sign the marriage license and most of us don't witness that anyway. 
    That's not true - the act of marriage happens when you exchange vows and your officiant declares you married. You can sign the paper, but until the officiant marries you, you are not married.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    Sars06 said:
    Lolo8383 said:
    If we only go by the political act of marriage, that happens when you sign the marriage license and most of us don't witness that anyway. 
    That's not true - the act of marriage happens when you exchange vows and your officiant declares you married. You can sign the paper, but until the officiant marries you, you are not married.
    Yeah but him declaring you married doesn't make you legally married.  Everyone signing and filing the license makes you married.  So until your marriage license is filed, you are not really married.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • Sars06Sars06 member
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    PrettyGirlLost said:
    Sars06 said:
    Lolo8383 said:
    If we only go by the political act of marriage, that happens when you sign the marriage license and most of us don't witness that anyway. 
    That's not true - the act of marriage happens when you exchange vows and your officiant declares you married. You can sign the paper, but until the officiant marries you, you are not married.
    Yeah but him declaring you married doesn't make you legally married.  Everyone signing and filing the license makes you married.  So until your marriage license is filed, you are not really married.
    That's true, but the officiant won't file it unless he marries you. If you sign it before the ceremony and then run from the altar, the officiant isn't going to file your marriage license. Anyway, my point is just that you do have to exchange some sort of vows in order to be married. And that exchange of vows constitutes a wedding.
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  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited February 2014
    s-aries8990 said:
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling

     







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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    Jells2dot0 said:
    s-aries8990 said:
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling

    They are having a Catholic ceremony. I'm just going to assume they were required to do it this way, but I wish I had gotten a heads up before reading about it in the paper.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    Sars06 said:
    Jells2dot0 said:
    s-aries8990 said:
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling

    They are having a Catholic ceremony. I'm just going to assume they were required to do it this way, but I wish I had gotten a heads up before reading about it in the paper.
    Like a full on wedding mass as if they are not already married?

    I always wonder about this. . . are they lying to the church and priest about already being married?  Does the church typically perform full on wedding masses to people that are already married?  I thought they would just do a short convalidation after a regular mass?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    Sars06 said:
    Jells2dot0 said:
    s-aries8990 said:
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling

    They are having a Catholic ceremony. I'm just going to assume they were required to do it this way, but I wish I had gotten a heads up before reading about it in the paper.
    Like a full on wedding mass as if they are not already married?

    I always wonder about this. . . are they lying to the church and priest about already being married?  Does the church typically perform full on wedding masses to people that are already married?  I thought they would just do a short convalidation after a regular mass?
    I think they are doing a full on mass. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how it works - does the priest care if they were already married in a courthouse in the US?
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  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    Sars06 said:


    PrettyGirlLost said:


    Sars06 said:


    Jells2dot0 said:


    s-aries8990 said:

    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling


    They are having a Catholic ceremony. I'm just going to assume they were required to do it this way, but I wish I had gotten a heads up before reading about it in the paper.

    Like a full on wedding mass as if they are not already married?

    I always wonder about this. . . are they lying to the church and priest about already being married?  Does the church typically perform full on wedding masses to people that are already married?  I thought they would just do a short convalidation after a regular mass?



    I think they are doing a full on mass. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how it works - does the priest care if they were already married in a courthouse in the US?


    Typically, the priest will just hold a convalidation, which is not a full up ceremony. However, that is why I asked WHERE this is being held. That way, we can better understand the country's rules. It can vary quite a bit from country to country.

     







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  • Sars06Sars06 member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    Jells2dot0 said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    Sars06 said:
    Jells2dot0 said:
    s-aries8990 said:
    Is it common? Yes.

    Is it rude to your guests? ABSO-FREAKING-LOUTELY.

    There is some leg-work associated with having your marriage recognized by the US when it is performed in another country, but thousands of couples do it every year.



    There was really no leg work required for me to have my Australian marrige legally recognized here in the US. I just took my marriage cert to the Social Security office, had my name changed, and voila!

    That being said, I'd like to know more about where they couple is having their religious ceremony. I still think they could have waited to do the civil ceremony until AFTER their relgious ceremony, but the country where they are getting married may have required two separate ceremonies. Again, doesn't make it right that they did the civil ceremony first and that they didn't tell guests upfront what their plans were for this.

    edit- spelling

    They are having a Catholic ceremony. I'm just going to assume they were required to do it this way, but I wish I had gotten a heads up before reading about it in the paper.
    Like a full on wedding mass as if they are not already married?

    I always wonder about this. . . are they lying to the church and priest about already being married?  Does the church typically perform full on wedding masses to people that are already married?  I thought they would just do a short convalidation after a regular mass?
    I think they are doing a full on mass. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know how it works - does the priest care if they were already married in a courthouse in the US?
    Typically, the priest will just hold a convalidation, which is not a full up ceremony. However, that is why I asked WHERE this is being held. That way, we can better understand the country's rules. It can vary quite a bit from country to country.
    Oh I see what you were asking. I'd rather not say which country because I would feel terrible if she found this, but it's in South America. I'm sure it was just much easier for them to do it this way and I don't begrudge them, but I wish I had known.
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  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited February 2014
    Sars06 said:
    Oh I see what you were asking. I'd rather not say which country because I would feel terrible if she found this, but it's in South America. I'm sure it was just much easier for them to do it this way and I don't begrudge them, but I wish I had known.

     Regardless of what the country's rules are,  I see why you are upset. So. America is definitely a long trip to make for a wedding.

     

    edit spelling

     







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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    Jells2dot0 said:
    Sars06 said:
    Oh I see what you were asking. I'd rather not say which country because I would feel terrible if she found this, but it's in South America. I'm sure it was just much easier for them to do it this way and I don't begrudge them, but I wish I had known.
     Regardless of what the country's rules are,  see why you are upset. So America is definitely a long trip to make for a wedding.
    Which isn't even a wedding now.

    I went to an OOT PPD with a full on Catholic Mass here in the sates- it was only 2hrs away and the couple was upfront about the fact that they were already married.  I am not sure if the church knew they were already married, because I doubt they would allow them to have a full mass as if they were not.

    However, I doubt I would take vacation time and spend all of that money to go to a PPD in South America.  I absolutely would not this year since I am saving vacation time and money for my won wedding and honeymoon.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • LadyMillilLadyMillil member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    PrettyGirlLost said:


    However, I doubt I would take vacation time and spend all of that money to go to a PPD in South America.  I absolutely would not this year since I am saving vacation time and money for my won wedding and honeymoon.
    To the bolded: This could be a friendship ending move. I had a friend who had a DW and made a HUGE deal about me not attending. I was putting myself through university and couldn't afford to go, and couldn't afford to miss out on several days of pay. After several digs about me not coming to her "wedding", she let it go, but she made me feel like I was a horrible friend for not coming. A couple months later I found out she got legally married at home before the DW because she didn't want to deal with the paperwork to have her marriage recognized here. I was furious that she lied to me, made me feel terrible for not attending the "wedding" and that she expected me to spend a ton of money I didn't have so that I could attend her PPD on a beach. That ended our friendship

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  • AroundTheBlockAroundTheBlock member
    Eighth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    cmfarr said:

    I doubt I would take vacation time and spend all of that money to go to ... South America.
    To the bolded: This could be a friendship ending move. I had a friend who had a DW and made a HUGE deal about me not attending.
    The decision to have a party -- "real" wedding or not -- in another country, or even just in another city, ought to be made in the full expectation of receiving regrets due to "inability to travel". "Inability to travel" was always a valid excuse for regrets, even in the early twentieth century when a wedding invitation was considered as nearly a command performance. "Inability to travel" includes everything from not being able to take your oxygen-machine on a plane to not being willing to incur the expense. And anyone who makes the choice to host a foreign party, and then drops her friends who decline the invitation, is a friend who is not likely to be missed.
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  • RebeccaB88RebeccaB88 member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    The situation you're in would very likely end my friendship with this person, or at the very least, cool it off considerably. They may be sweet and just simply too naive, uninformed, and stupid to understand how rude they are being to their friends and loved ones, but nevertheless, it's not an excuse. They are being rude anyway.  I would in no uncertain terms tell her that I was making the trip to see her get married, but since they are already married and lied to me about it, that I would not be making the trip as planned and was no longer interested in maintaining the friendship. Period. Then I'd change my plane tickets to a destination I wanted to go to (if I couldn't get them refunded) and go have a good, lie-free vacation.
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