Miss or Ms. for older never-married woman

rajahmd · February 2014

phira said:
One of the reasons why I want to avoid using titles on invitations (we'll probably use them but uuuugh) is because for women, unless you have a fancy professional title (for example, Dr) whatever title you have marks you in some way.

Miss? You're unmarried.
Mrs? You're married.
Ms? FEMINIST HARPY trying to break tradition.

Whereas:

Mr? Just a title.

Guys are unmarked. Gals are marked. That's why it feels like we can never win if we change OR keep our last names, and there's no safe unloaded default title we can use for women (since a lot of women DO get offended if you call them Ms).

This double standard is part of why I excited to graduate med school in May. On top of getting my MD and entering my chosen profession, I get a title that is in no way related to my marital status (or gender even). I'm hoping that it will get my grandmother, who insists on using old fashioned titles and whatnot, to stop calling me Mrs DH'S First Lastname. I'm sick and tired of it.

themuffinman16 · February 2014

I HATE when anybody says Mrs. DH's First Last Name. It's like if you are married, do you just become your husband? I think it is terribly rude. I wish society would put an end to that!

phira · February 2014

I know that Ms was created so that it would be an unmarked title for women. But even just in this thread, we're talking about how some women do NOT want to be called Ms (because they prefer Miss or Mrs).

Whereas dudes get to be one thing forever, and they don't have to reveal anything about their social beliefs by choosing any particular title.

chibiyui · February 2014

.........I work retail.

YOU'RE ALL MA'AM'S.

Sorry, there's just, nothing in English that works without pissing someone off.

Fuck you, English.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

I have found, surprisingly, that 'Madam' works for people. Even though 'Ma'am' is merely the contraction of 'Madam,' it seems to annoy people a lot less.

Either that or it baffles the people who call my TV station enough that they stop short in their tirade of yelling at me to let me get a word in edgewise.

But I generally 'Madam' and 'Sir' people -- my co-workers can tell how annoyed I am by how clipped my voice is when saying either of those words and also how frequently I say them.

Cookie Pusher · February 2014

I make pre-collections calls for work, and "Madam" and "Sir" definitely allow me to get a word in edgewise when I'm being yelled at by people who have no idea why we expect them to pay their bills before they reach 90 days past due!

KeptInStitches · February 2014

'Madam' is charming, IMO. I much prefer that to 'Ma'am'.

thisismynickname2 · February 2014

It seems I may be in the minority. At 30 and engaged, I prefer "ma'am" to "miss" if said verbally and "Ms." to anything else in written form.

It's a good problem to have, but I look very young for my age. Just the other day on the train some guy who appeared to be my age offered me a newly-open seat by calling me "miss". Being called "miss" by anyone but an elderly gentleman makes me feel like I'm perceived to be immature. It's the same thing when my virtual coworkers meet me in person and say, "Oh, you're so young!" (Not too young to do this job, thankyouverymuch.)

I loathe "Mrs. DH's First Name Last Name". For example, I'll be at say, the ballet, reading the program and all the donors. There's almost always a Women's Board and to see that makes me do a double-take. My perception is that they value their husband's position, or they value being a wife, more than anything else. You're on a Board! Use your OWN name! Just my opinion, as I know etiquette may dictate otherwise.

cowgirl8238 · February 2014

tigersgirlgv said:

I am one who prefers Miss. Somehow as a child I got it in my head that Ms. was for women who got divorced (I don't know if someone told me that or my little brain just made it up...). I know that is clearly not the correct usage, but that connotation has still stuck for me.

Also, I'm a teacher, so I get referred to as Miss Lastname all day!

At some point I was taught that in school too, so its not just you!!!

grumbledore · February 2014

I think a woman stops being "Miss" at 18/adulthood. It's a very juvenile title. I'd be annoyed to be referred to as "Miss" over the age of 18.

grumbledore · February 2014

Also, I work in the legal field and we refer to every adult woman as "Ms" at my firm regardless of marital status. I think that's preferable when addressing correspondence unless you know someone will prefer "Mrs."

phira · February 2014

grumbledore said:

Also, I work in the legal field and we refer to every adult woman as "Ms" at my firm regardless of marital status. I think that's preferable when addressing correspondence unless you know someone will prefer "Mrs."

Yeah, I definitely encourage Ms as default, and if someone got offended when I absolutely HAD to guess Ms and they preferred Mrs or Miss, I'd apologize but stand by my decision (and then use their preference in the future).

themuffinman16 · February 2014

Why can't we create a title... just like men and factor our relationship status out of our title and only have one catch all term for every woman. I like Missumoiselle. (Quit trying to make "fetch" happen... it's NEVER going to happen!)

grumbledore · February 2014

themuffinman16 said:

Why can't we create a title... just like men and factor our relationship status out of our title and only have one catch all term for every woman. I like Missumoiselle. (Quit trying to make "fetch" happen... it's NEVER going to happen!)

I think that's what "Ms" is. Although I suppose the general assumption when one sees "Ms" is that the addressee is unmarried... Fat chance in hell that will change anytime soon (although I agree with you, it's ridiculous).

phira · February 2014

themuffinman16 said:

Why can't we create a title... just like men and factor our relationship status out of our title and only have one catch all term for every woman. I like Missumoiselle. (Quit trying to make "fetch" happen... it's NEVER going to happen!)

That was the point of the creation of "Ms." The complication is that a lot of women DON'T like that title. Which is too bad because uuuugh.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

My religious ed students call me 'Miss Firstname' because that's what our director has told them to do. When they do it -- or when any child calls me Miss HisGirl -- I think it's charming and cute and a way to show respect.

Otherwise, I preferred Ms. before I was married.

Miss or Ms. for older never-married woman

Re: Miss or Ms. for older never-married woman

Choose Another Board

Search Boards