Got it Resolved

SchmitKohn · March 2014

Got it resolved. She stepped down on her own.

AddieCake · March 2014

Why do you have personal attendants? (One is bad enough, but plural?) You can't kick this girl out unless you wish to sever ties with her.

AddieCake · March 2014

I have a very weird situation and don't have a clue how to handle it.

My fiance's brother was dating a girl who I really got along with at first; we hung out a lot, had very similar interests, etc. Summer of 2012, after she and my brother-in-law were dating for about 4 or 5 months, we went shopping and we started discussing wedding stuff and she brought up being bridesmaid's in each other's weddings. I laughed and said sure but it won't be for years down the road as my fiance and I had been together about 6 years at the time weren't in any particular rush to get married. 8 months later, in July 2013, my fiance proposed and when I told this friend about it, she said "Congratulations! Yay! I get to be a bridesmaid!" to which I responded, very uncomfortably, "yeah..." Later on that evening, after ruining our engagement photos and almost ruining the evening my fiance had planned post-engagement because she did something very stupid, she got drunk and posted something about us becoming future sister-in-laws which prompted half a dozen calls from family members to my fiance's father asking if they missed something after congratulating him on his son getting engaged.

Shortly after, when we actually started discussing plans, it came out that my fiance absolutely can not stand this girl and we tried to make the wedding party smaller. I told her that I still wanted to keep her in the bridal party, as a personal attendant or something, but that we wanted to keep the groomsmen/bridesmaids to a minimum. She got very quiet and refused to talk to me for three or four days. After asking his 10 year old sister, who is somewhat shy, to be a bridesmaid, I realized it would probably be a good idea to add this friend back into the wedding party since she knows the sister and could help make her more comfortable. Let's be honest here, she bullied herself into the wedding party and in an effort to keep peace, I flat out caved and since then have had very bad anxiety about her being in the wedding party.

Since then, every time anyone asks about our wedding plans, if she is around, the conversation always ends up gravitating towards her wedding plans (mind you, she is not engaged or even close to becoming engaged). I later found out that while I was trying on wedding dresses with my mother, sister, future MIL and my MOH, she was talking their ears off about her wedding dress and colors for her bridesmaid dresses! I kept telling myself that she was a little jealous, she was young, it was nothing to be concerned with, she was a lot of fun to hang out with, etc, anything to convince myself that I hadn't made a horrible mistake by asking her. My fear, obviously, was that she and my BIL would break up before the wedding and I would be putting him in a very awkward conversation (which I did tell her that if they did break up, I couldn't do that to him or his family).

In January, we went dress shopping for the girls and they picked out their dresses. They arrived to the store in February, she picked hers up and paid for it. I honestly haven't really heard anything out of her since the middle of February, haven't seen her and have barely spoken to her (not for lack of trying on my part either). We just found out that they (BIL and girlfriend) broke up because they want different things in life and it was apparently a mutual break up, however, we found out because of my MIL. They broke up almost a week ago and she hadn't said a word to me about it which surprised me. I sent her a text asking how she was doing and that I was surprised to hear about the break up and she replied "I'm OK, thanks." First time I'd heard from her in two weeks.

According to the brother, it was mutual and they will still be friends and he, at this point, is okay with her being in the wedding, but again, we didn't want her in the wedding and they still have a few months left on a lease so they are still living together so I can't very well say "well, my fiance can't stand you" only to have them get back together or something. I am going to ask one of my personal attendants to be a bridesmaid, whom I wanted in the wedding in the first place since she's a VERY close friend of mine and has been for the duration of our relationship, in her place, but I still have to have that awkward conversation to ask her to step down.

Looking for advice on that conversation and also, since she already paid for the dress, am I expected to pay her back?

Thanks in advance and sorry about the long read!

Viczaesar · March 2014

SchmitKohn said:

I have a very weird situation and don't have a clue how to handle it.

My fiance's brother was dating a girl who I really got along with at first; we hung out a lot, had very similar interests, etc. Summer of 2012, after she and my brother-in-law were dating for about 4 or 5 months, we went shopping and we started discussing wedding stuff and she brought up being bridesmaid's in each other's weddings. I laughed and said sure but it won't be for years down the road as my fiance and I had been together about 6 years at the time weren't in any particular rush to get married. 8 months later, in July 2013, my fiance proposed and when I told this friend about it, she said "Congratulations! Yay! I get to be a bridesmaid!" to which I responded, very uncomfortably, "yeah..." Later on that evening, after ruining our engagement photos and almost ruining the evening my fiance had planned post-engagement because she did something very stupid, she got drunk and posted something about us becoming future sister-in-laws which prompted half a dozen calls from family members to my fiance's father asking if they missed something after congratulating him on his son getting engaged.

Shortly after, when we actually started discussing plans, it came out that my fiance absolutely can not stand this girl and we tried to make the wedding party smaller. I told her that I still wanted to keep her in the bridal party, as a personal attendant or something, but that we wanted to keep the groomsmen/bridesmaids to a minimum. She got very quiet and refused to talk to me for three or four days. After asking his 10 year old sister, who is somewhat shy, to be a bridesmaid, I realized it would probably be a good idea to add this friend back into the wedding party since she knows the sister and could help make her more comfortable. Let's be honest here, she bullied herself into the wedding party and in an effort to keep peace, I flat out caved and since then have had very bad anxiety about her being in the wedding party.

Since then, every time anyone asks about our wedding plans, if she is around, the conversation always ends up gravitating towards her wedding plans (mind you, she is not engaged or even close to becoming engaged). I later found out that while I was trying on wedding dresses with my mother, sister, future MIL and my MOH, she was talking their ears off about her wedding dress and colors for her bridesmaid dresses! I kept telling myself that she was a little jealous, she was young, it was nothing to be concerned with, she was a lot of fun to hang out with, etc, anything to convince myself that I hadn't made a horrible mistake by asking her. My fear, obviously, was that she and my BIL would break up before the wedding and I would be putting him in a very awkward conversation (which I did tell her that if they did break up, I couldn't do that to him or his family).

In January, we went dress shopping for the girls and they picked out their dresses. They arrived to the store in February, she picked hers up and paid for it. I honestly haven't really heard anything out of her since the middle of February, haven't seen her and have barely spoken to her (not for lack of trying on my part either). We just found out that they (BIL and girlfriend) broke up because they want different things in life and it was apparently a mutual break up, however, we found out because of my MIL. They broke up almost a week ago and she hadn't said a word to me about it which surprised me. I sent her a text asking how she was doing and that I was surprised to hear about the break up and she replied "I'm OK, thanks." First time I'd heard from her in two weeks.

According to the brother, it was mutual and they will still be friends and he, at this point, is okay with her being in the wedding, but again, we didn't want her in the wedding and they still have a few months left on a lease so they are still living together so I can't very well say "well, my fiance can't stand you" only to have them get back together or something. I am going to ask one of my personal attendants to be a bridesmaid, whom I wanted in the wedding in the first place since she's a VERY close friend of mine and has been for the duration of our relationship, in her place, but I still have to have that awkward conversation to ask her to step down.

Looking for advice on that conversation and also, since she already paid for the dress, am I expected to pay her back?

Thanks in advance and sorry about the long read!

No. You cannot kick her out of the wedding. If you want to end your friendship with her then do that.

Stop demoting and promoting people. Why do you have personal attendants?

SchmitKohn · March 2014

To be fair, she hasn't been a great friend to me at all since we got engaged and the only reason we are friends is because she was dating my fiance's brother. I was under the impression that bridesmaids are supposed to be supportive and helpful. All she has done is cause anxiety and stress on my relationship with my fiance.

We have very large families (total of 3 sisters and 4 brothers between the two of us) and since we didn't want a huge bridal party, we asked his step sister to be a personal attendant mostly because she's an event planner and will be very helpful in making sure everything is going on task and getting set up at the venue so I don't have to worry about it (which was what I thought a personal attendant's job).

BrandNewJ · March 2014

Honestly, you can tell her that you can't have her in your WP because she and your FBIL broke up since you did already have that conversation with her and seemingly she agreed to that stipulation. I would offer to pay her back for the dress. I also wouldn't worry about severing ties per your previous conversation with her and the fact that you most likely won't ever see her again. While I completely agree that you shouldn't ever kick someone out of the WP, both she and you agreed to it if they broke up.

chibiyui · March 2014

SchmitKohn said:

I wasn't asking whether or not I could kick her out of the wedding party because AGAIN, my fiance can't stand this woman so the decision has already been made. I was asking how to handle that conversation and if I had to pay her back for the dress.

To be fair, she hasn't been a great friend to me at all since we got engaged and the only reason we are friends is because she was dating my fiance's brother. I was under the impression that bridesmaids are supposed to be supportive and helpful. All she has done is cause anxiety and stress on my relationship with my fiance.

We have very large families (total of 3 sisters and 4 brothers between the two of us) and since we didn't want a huge bridal party, we asked his step sister to be a personal attendant mostly because she's an event planner and will be very helpful in making sure everything is going on task and getting set up at the venue so I don't have to worry about it (which was what I thought a personal attendant's job). I asked my very close friend to be a personal attendant because I wanted to recognize her as an important person to us and our relationship; her son is our ring bearer and her husband is a groomsman. Truth is, she is who I wanted as a bridesmaid in the first place.

First off, personal attendants are PAID.

For God's sake, yes pay the girl you don't like back for her dress. Secondly, your FI doesn't get a say in your wedding party. My FI is not super fond of by bestie, but he deals with it cause he loves me and we're friends. Thirdly you should have asked the girl you wanted to be a BM to do a reading, because that is a position of honor, not unpaid labor. Your BM's do not have to help you. Many do out of kindness, but really it isn't required. You ask people to be BM's cause you love them and want to honor them, not because they'll help you plan.

I think you should let your FI tell her she's not in the wedding, since he made that decision.

MairePoppy · March 2014

It's beyond rude to kick anyone out of your wedding party. I know you don't care, because you want what you want, so be honest with her. Tell her you don't like her and the only reason you had a relationship with her is because you were dating brothers. She will figure out from there that you were never really her friend and she's better off without you.

Of course you should pay her for that dress she bought for your wedding. That's the least you can do. Hand her the cash when you break up with her.

It's not an honor to set up your venue and keep everything on schedule for your wedding day. What you're really asking for is free labor.

Incidentally, you don't have to have equal numbers of bms and gms, so you don't need to kick a bm out in order to include your friend.

SchmitKohn said:

I wasn't asking whether or not I could kick her out of the wedding party because AGAIN, my fiance can't stand this woman so the decision has already been made. I was asking how to handle that conversation and if I had to pay her back for the dress.

To be fair, she hasn't been a great friend to me at all since we got engaged and the only reason we are friends is because she was dating my fiance's brother. I was under the impression that bridesmaids are supposed to be supportive and helpful. All she has done is cause anxiety and stress on my relationship with my fiance.

We have very large families (total of 3 sisters and 4 brothers between the two of us) and since we didn't want a huge bridal party, we asked his step sister to be a personal attendant mostly because she's an event planner and will be very helpful in making sure everything is going on task and getting set up at the venue so I don't have to worry about it (which was what I thought a personal attendant's job). I asked my very close friend to be a personal attendant because I wanted to recognize her as an important person to us and our relationship; her son is our ring bearer and her husband is a groomsman. Truth is, she is who I wanted as a bridesmaid in the first place.

Viczaesar · March 2014

SchmitKohn said:

I wasn't asking whether or not I could kick her out of the wedding party because AGAIN, my fiance can't stand this woman so the decision has already been made. I was asking how to handle that conversation and if I had to pay her back for the dress.

To be fair, she hasn't been a great friend to me at all since we got engaged and the only reason we are friends is because she was dating my fiance's brother. I was under the impression that bridesmaids are supposed to be supportive and helpful. All she has done is cause anxiety and stress on my relationship with my fiance.

We have very large families (total of 3 sisters and 4 brothers between the two of us) and since we didn't want a huge bridal party, we asked his step sister to be a personal attendant mostly because she's an event planner and will be very helpful in making sure everything is going on task and getting set up at the venue so I don't have to worry about it (which was what I thought a personal attendant's job). I asked my very close friend to be a personal attendant because I wanted to recognize her as an important person to us and our relationship; her son is our ring bearer and her husband is a groomsman. Truth is, she is who I wanted as a bridesmaid in the first place.

Then you end the friendship, like I said. You don't get a pass on being rude just because your FI announced that he doesn't like somebody. If you straightforwardly tell her that the friendship is over then her involvement in your wedding will be naturally severed.

Personal attendants should be paid, not your friends. It's a crap job, not an honor. If you wanted her as a bridesmaid in the first place you should have asked her to be one; asking her now makes it look like you're just using her to replace the person whose friendship you're going to end.

ETA: Yes, of course you would have to pay her back for her dress. In what world do you think it would be appropriate not to?

Viczaesar · March 2014

BrandNewJ said:

Honestly, you can tell her that you can't have her in your WP because she and your FBIL broke up since you did already have that conversation with her and seemingly she agreed to that stipulation. I would offer to pay her back for the dress. I also wouldn't worry about severing ties per your previous conversation with her and the fact that you most likely won't ever see her again. While I completely agree that you shouldn't ever kick someone out of the WP, both she and you agreed to it if they broke up.

@BrandNewJ, what are you talking about? I don't see that anywhere in OP's text. What previous conversation with her? OP specifically said that FBIL is still planning on being friends with her, they're still living together, and there's a possibility that they'll get back together, so how exactly did you deduce that it's likely that OP will never see her again? Seriously, what are you talking about?

BrandNewJ · March 2014

@viczaesar, I missed the thing about the lease, I see that now. I don't think it should matter if they get back together because they aren't together at the time of the wedding, presumably. She said in the OP that she told BM "(which I did tell her that if they broke up I couldn't do that to his family)". It's possible that I misunderstood that as well, but I saw it as they had a conversation of what to do about being a BM if they broke up, so it shouldn't be a surprise to that girl.

Viczaesar · March 2014

BrandNewJ said:

@viczaesar, I missed the thing about the lease, I see that now. I don't think it should matter if they get back together because they aren't together at the time of the wedding, presumably. She said in the OP that she told BM "(which I did tell her that if they broke up I couldn't do that to his family)". It's possible that I misunderstood that as well, but I saw it as they had a conversation of what to do about being a BM if they broke up, so it shouldn't be a surprise to that girl.

"According to the brother, it was mutual and they will still be friends and he, at this point, is okay with her being in the wedding, but again, we didn't want her in the wedding and they still have a few months left on a lease so they are still living together so I can't very well say "well, my fiance can't stand you" only to have them get back together or something."

Regarding this:
"My fear, obviously, was that she and my BIL would break up before the wedding and I would be putting him in a very awkward conversation (which I did tell her that if they did break up, I couldn't do that to him or his family)."

Regardless of what she meant by that unclear statement, brother is okay with her being in the wedding, so it's not putting him in an awkward situation. Pretending that that's the reason for kicking her out of the wedding would be a lie, and there isn't enough information to conclude that this was a condition that both women agreed to. Telling someone ahead of time that you're going to do something rude does not in fact make it okay to do that rude thing.

BrandNewJ · March 2014

@viczaesar : I don't think anyone should be kicked out of a BP, which I feel you think is what I'm saying. I do, however, think that if there was actually that stipulation as I read it, it wouldn't be a surprise to the girl and frankly, I think she would understand that. Is it rude? Sure. Should she kick her out? No. But that doesn't negate the fact that the girl agreed to that stipulation. If she wants to cut ties with the girl, which she might as her FI seems to really not like this girl, then it's ok for her to make the move. I also don't think she should replace the girl w another friend because it would hurt her feelings to be second place. This is not something I would ever do. I'm just giving advice based on the information I got from the OP. No need to freak out.

Viczaesar · March 2014

BrandNewJ said:

@viczaesar : I don't think anyone should be kicked out of a BP, which I feel you think is what I'm saying. I do, however, think that if there was actually that stipulation as I read it, it wouldn't be a surprise to the girl and frankly, I think she would understand that. Is it rude? Sure. Should she kick her out? No. But that doesn't negate the fact that the girl agreed to that stipulation. If she wants to cut ties with the girl, which she might as her FI seems to really not like this girl, then it's ok for her to make the move. I also don't think she should replace the girl w another friend because it would hurt her feelings to be second place. This is not something I would ever do. I'm just giving advice based on the information I got from the OP. No need to freak out.

Making a stipulation after asking someone to being in your wedding party (or saying yes to someone being in your wedding party) is inappropriate. We have no information that she agreed to any stipulation anyway, as I pointed out.

If I disagree with your reading of the information posted, or I disagree with your advice, I'm going to speak up and say so, just like I did here. It's part and parcel of posting on a message board. I don't know why you're talking about anyone freaking out.

Maggie0829 · March 2014

This is a complete cluster fuck which you, OP, 100% contributed to. You are moving this girl around like she is a freaking chess piece and putting her in whatever position that works for you and not taking her feelings into consideration.

And using a person as a personal attendant just because they have event planning experience and expecting them to think this is an honor to work at your wedding is so fucked up and selfish, I just can't.

There is no way to word this conversation to make it okay. Put yourself in her shoes. If a supposed friend came up to you and said "sorry SchmitKohn but I don't think you should be in my wedding anymore" you would feel like you just took a punch to the gut. There is no amount of explanations or excuses that will make her feel okay about this. And I really don't give two shits that your FI doesn't like her. Your FI doesn't have to like her, this is your friend, not his, and this is your bridal party, not his.

I just think that you are pissed because this girl isn't fawning all over you and your wedding.

jneen101 · March 2014

What is a personal attendant?

artbyallie · March 2014

jneen101 said:

What is a personal attendant?

The bride's bitch, basically. It's a super shitty job where you become an errand girl instead of a real wedding party member. Cinderella before the ball.

climbingsingle · March 2014

This is ridiculous. OP, you've only got yourself to blame for this situation. If you didn't want her in the wedding party, you should have been a freaking adult about it and dealt with it in the beginning.

You didn't hear from her for two weeks, during which that time she broke up with her boyfriend and you're mad about that? Did it ever occur to you that maybe she's going through a rough time? Did you even consider that maybe your wedding isn't the most important thing in her life?

You know what? You're doing this girl a favor by kicking her out of your wedding. It's pretty clear you've been a shitty friend to her. Tell her you don't want her in your wedding. Pay her back for whatever money she's spent (did she ever pay you for the dress?) and be done with her. This girl is better off without you in her life.

zitiqueen · March 2014

Just tell her that your FI now makes all of your decisions for you and he's decided that she can no longer be in the wedding party because doesn't like her. Explain that he'll be picking and choosing all of your friends and doing all of your thinking for you from this point forward. Maybe you can even convince her that it's an honor to be the first friend he's decided you can no longer have. You know, just like it's an honor to be your unpaid bridal bitch.

singinchick13 · March 2014

I believe the term is actually 'personal assistant' -- someone who gets PAID to run around and do things for you at your beckon call, usually business-related. It is not an honour and should not be treated as such just because it is in relation to your wedding. If you want someone to do these things for you, pay them. If your FI's sister OFFERED to do this for free because she is experienced, you can accept, but you cannot ask or expect someone to do things like this unpaid.

In regard to your initial question, you cannot ask a bridesmaid to step down and still remain friends with her or think for a second you can manage not to hurt her feelings. It is indeed an awkward situation to have her and her ex both in the bridal party, but that is something you knew may have happened before you asked her. You also should not have chosen someone who you do not particularly like to be a bridesmaid instead of one of your actual close friends. Giving your good friend a menial job to do will not make her feel better about this. If you truly expect to end your friendship with your FBIL's ex and kick her out of the WP, then yes you have to reimburse her for the dress. She did not do anything to disrespect you or FI, and she is not voluntarily taking herself out of the WP so she does not deserve to eat that expense.

jneen101 · March 2014

artbyallie said:

show previous quotes

jneen101 said:

What is a personal attendant?

The bride's bitch, basically. It's a super shitty job where you become an errand girl instead of a real wedding party member. Cinderella before the ball.

Sounds gross. What jobs are there to hand out though? Like I don't even know what I would ask someone to do for me.

Maggie0829 · March 2014

jneen101 said:

show previous quotes

artbyallie said:

jneen101 said:

What is a personal attendant?

The bride's bitch, basically. It's a super shitty job where you become an errand girl instead of a real wedding party member. Cinderella before the ball.

Sounds gross. What jobs are there to hand out though? Like I don't even know what I would ask someone to do for me.

Peel you grapes and feed them to you. Fan you off. Bow down to your bridal glory.

MairePoppy · March 2014

jneen101 Hold your dress up while you pee.

Photo 1 - wasted bride peeing in a garbage can. Photo 2 classy bride peeing in the bathroom with several attendants.

Make sure the photographer gets a picture of this special moment. You can give a framed copy to your personal attendant, as her gift.

MyNameIsNot · March 2014

jneen101 said:

What is a personal attendant?

It's a catty way to insult someone you don't like well enough to be a bridesmaid.

OP, tell her that you were just being nice because she was dating BIL, but you don't like her enough to be friends and that your FI doesn't want you to be friends with her. She'll go away. There's no need to publicly humiliate her by calling her personal attendant. She'll already be embarrassed enough if she has to be around BIL's family.

zitiqueen · March 2014

SchmitKohn said:

To be fair, she hasn't been a great friend to me at all since we got engaged and the only reason we are friends is because she was dating my fiance's brother. I was under the impression that bridesmaids are supposed to be supportive and helpful. All she has done is cause anxiety and stress on my relationship with my fiance.

We have very large families (total of 3 sisters and 4 brothers between the two of us) and since we didn't want a huge bridal party, we asked his step sister to be a personal attendant mostly because she's an event planner and will be very helpful in making sure everything is going on task and getting set up at the venue so I don't have to worry about it (which was what I thought a personal attendant's job).

MairePoppy · March 2014

SchmitKohn said:

Got it resolved. She stepped down on her own.

Sure she did.

RedJacks25 · March 2014

Thank God for people who quote these crazy things.

Kauris · March 2014

I was a personal attendant, and my duties included (but not limited to): Helping the bride pee, assisting the photographer, assisting the caterer, finding the owner of the Chihuahua who bit the MOH and ask them to put it away, doing the flower girls makeup, assisting the makeup artist, set up the reception, etc. (I don't remember any more duties). It was not fun. I would rather have been just a guest.

Ladies who lurk, do not do this to your friends. I love my friend very much, she is in fact my MOH, and as such I would never tell her how crappy I felt. BUT regardless of my instance, do not do this to your friends, either ask them to be a BM (where they STILL shouldn't be required to do all those things) or let them be a guest.

sarahufl · March 2014

kasmith1 said:

I was a personal attendant, and my duties included (but not limited to): Helping the bride pee, assisting the photographer, assisting the caterer, finding the owner of the Chihuahua who bit the MOH and ask them to put it away, doing the flower girls makeup, assisting the makeup artist, set up the reception, etc. (I don't remember any more duties). It was not fun. I would rather have been just a guest.

Ladies who lurk, do not do this to your friends. I love my friend very much, she is in fact my MOH, and as such I would never tell her how crappy I felt. BUT regardless of my instance, do not do this to your friends, either ask them to be a BM (where they STILL shouldn't be required to do all those things) or let them be a guest.

Um, @kasmith1- please elaborate on the dog part. Consider me intrigued.

Kauris · March 2014

@sarahufl - So, my friend got married at a really awesome little town on the Florida coast; the venue was actually a house with a great backyard that led out onto the beach. Several people rented out different houses in the same complex. The proprietors of the house lived on site; they owned the Chihuahua in question and he was a mean little sh!t. The day of, when everyone was running around getting ready, he bit the MOH, so I was tasked with finding the culprit and owners and asking them to keep him locked up so that no other wedding attendees would get bit.

MairePoppy · March 2014

@kasmisth1 did he look like this?

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