WR: Requirements and Stipulations

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

I'm just super curious - some are already married, but some sound like you and your FI live together. Our officiant just gave us a list of I will marry you IF you do a, b, c. The biggest one was FI moving out, but also included abstinence, premarital counseling, attendance at his church, etc. - all but the moving out was game plan. FI and I are living with my parents before the wedding for financial and driving distance benefits to work before our house is built. That's another discussion though!

So my question is, did your wedding officiant give you "stipulations" in order to be married? How did you feel, what did you do?

pumpkinsandturkeys · March 2014

The only requirements the pastor had was that we come to an initial meeting with him, during which we got to know each other better and there was no commitment on either party's behalf to agree that he was to marry us; and we also had to do premarital counselling in the form of taking a test (Prepare & Enrich) that identifies our strengths and growth areas, and then attending subsequent sessions to talk about them and get take-home exercises to better our relationship.

The ones you mentioned sound strict, but I also know that they're not unusual in reference to particular religious denominations. I do think that you need to be respectful of your faith, but you also need to be married by someone who understands and respects you as a couple and isn't overly judgmental of aspects of your relationship that you're at peace with.

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

I should change the poll choices to "we had normal stipulations like premarital counseling and meeting with the officiant" and "we had outrageously strict stipulations" lol

CMGragain · March 2014

The pastor usually required counseling for the couple before he would agree to the wedding. FI was in Maryland, and I was in Iowa, so this wasn't possible back in the days before skype. The pastor knew both of our mothers, and was concerned until he learned that we would be living in Maryland, 1100 miles away from both of the crazy ladies. After talking with me, he agreed to marry us, but gave me cautionary advice about dealing with our mothers.
I don't think I fit in your poll. It would be "Yes we were given a stipulation, but it was no big deal."

CMGragain · March 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

I should change the poll choices to "we had normal stipulations like premarital counseling and meeting with the officiant" and "we had outrageously strict stipulations" lol

As I recall, you had very strict stipulations, and had to make some emergency arrangements for the Catholic church?

phira · March 2014

My godmother, who's a life cycle celebrant, is our officiant. Considering that she's my super duper liberal feminist role model, I wasn't surprised that there were no stipulations.

Honestly, if we had to stop living together to get married, I'd find another officiant. Abstinence can be faked :-p

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

Yes, although since I have not elaborated upon the subject, you may have hoped we did decide to get married in the Catholic church. Together we have decided not to.

So this is a pastor who was recommended to us by the man doing our premarital counseling.

AprilH81 · March 2014

I voted no stipulations, but we technically had one and that was premarital counseling with him.

photokitty · March 2014

I had no stips, but obviously voted for turtles!

Would you be permitted to live with your parents, but not share a room/ bed and that meet the requirements?

Cookie Pusher · March 2014

My friend is getting ordained to officiate our wedding. The only stipulation she had was that we actually get married!

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

So far he has said no, that he cannot fulfill his duty to God by proclaiming Gods blessing for marriage knowing we were bending the rules and possibly lying to him. We are not supposed to "test drive" marriage and are increasing the chances we will get divorced. /sigh I do love the Christian faith and scripture, but I guess I'm a bad Christian since I can't get on board with this.

FI and I (and moms!) are considering looking for someone who will share Gods message in our ceremony without looking down on us..

APDSS22 · March 2014

We had pre-cana and had to meet with the priest. We took a test, discussed the results and what readings we would like to have for the ceremony. Actually the only part we had a problem with was the online pre-cana couple that looked over our work. I think 5/7 segments of the online course being primarily about natural family planning was a bit much. (The other two were the first section that went over the basis of the faith and the last one that was a questionnaire about the course.) Their response was that it wasn't brought up too much or leaned on too heavily as a topic so I'm sure a newly engaged couple somewhere is banging their heads on a wall now.

We also had to procure a marriage license and have our baptismal records faxed to the church we got married in but those two things didn't take very long at all. We had been worried because some priests do require abstinence and take it a step further, not allowing cohabitation or cohabitation only with certain parameters (not sharing a bed, for example.) Our pre-cana couple did stress that we would have a happier marriage if we abstained. We made our own personal decision based on what we believed was best.

pinkshorts27 · March 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

So far he has said no, that he cannot fulfill his duty to God by proclaiming Gods blessing for marriage knowing we were bending the rules and possibly lying to him. We are not supposed to "test drive" marriage and are increasing the chances we will get divorced. /sigh I do love the Christian faith and scripture, but I guess I'm a bad Christian since I can't get on board with this. FI and I (and moms!) are considering looking for someone who will share Gods message in our ceremony without looking down on us..

That sounds like a better idea. My uncle (our Pastor) had only wanted to meet FI in person once, had us do pre-marital counseling (either with him or someone else), and that was it. But we had to talk to him because FI and I have lived together and slept together so we had to make sure he was okay with that. We are also getting married and then living apart for a year (haha, backwards we know!).

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

We are Catholic and we had to do pre-Cana, and meet with the priest, but we weren't asked if we were having sex or anything like that.

I'm sorry you're having such difficulties with judgemental people.

jdluvr06 · March 2014

I voted turtles but our officiant doesn't have any stipulations. She asked us what we wanted and gave us some ideas but that was about it.

pumpkinsandturkeys · March 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

So far he has said no, that he cannot fulfill his duty to God by proclaiming Gods blessing for marriage knowing we were bending the rules and possibly lying to him. We are not supposed to "test drive" marriage and are increasing the chances we will get divorced. /sigh I do love the Christian faith and scripture, but I guess I'm a bad Christian since I can't get on board with this. FI and I (and moms!) are considering looking for someone who will share Gods message in our ceremony without looking down on us..

Which denomination is this pastor? Ours is a Mennonite pastor (they fall into the Anabaptist vein), and he's pretty relaxed, even knowing that I'm Catholic (I grew up going to both Catholic and Mennonite churches) and FI is agnostic/very lightly Anglican haha. It varies from church to church, and it may be worth it to look around.

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

@HisGirlFriday13 Thanks for the sympathy :-)

I know it's strange that we are doing counseling with someone who is NOT marrying us, but he was busy the day of our wedding and suggested someone else that he had heard about through the grapevine.

@pumpkinsandturkeys we are doing Prepare/Enrich too! We love it so far.

We were only drilled on living arrangements/premarital sex when we talked with this oter officiant and he was available on our day (yay!) and he gave us a questionnaire form to get to know us. We answered honestly and openly even though it was like writing an essay (seriously).

I received an email that if I printed it out probably would have been 3 pages long about what the bible says about living together, premarital sex, etc that we are going to be another divorce statistic if we don't live separately, and then said that he would still be willing to marry us if we followed the following requirements. Not gonna throw out what denomination he is from, but you can probably guess.

It left a bitter taste in both our mouths after reading it. Like if we did use him, our ceremony would be tainted by this judgemental undertone and he might even make snippets or sonething.

ktjanesmom · March 2014

Im sorry but he is not being judgemental. He is being biblical.

Sugargirl1019 · March 2014

@ktjanesmom I do completely understand where he is coming from.

NavyBlue143 · March 2014

The idea that living together increases your chances of divorce has been debunked. So there's that

pumpkinsandturkeys · March 2014

@Sugargirl1019 -- isn't P&E great?? FI was wary at first, but we loooooved it! We finished our last session in December and meet to discuss the ceremony this weekend. I would recommend that program to anyone.

KytchynWitche · March 2014

Our officiant (FI's uncle) has asked us to do marriage prep. He recommended Engagement Encounter, being a Catholic priest, but FI told him I'm not religious and he said we could do FAMSA or any other marriage prep and he'll accept it.

We're still not 100% certain that he will be our officiant. We're trying to arrange to meet with him at the end of the month to sort everything out. I couldn't make it to the last meeting because I got stuck at work, so FI had to try and explain why I want non-religious vows (because I feel that making vows involving a deity I don't believe in is disrespectful to FI, to myself, and to everyone who DOES believe).

FI and his family REALLY want uncle to officiate, so I'm hoping that we can work something out.

Anyway, other than that we haven't had any requirements or stipulations. We may end up having a civil officiant from the municipal office, or even my ex-boss, and I'm fairly certain neither of them have any requirements or stipulations other than being legally able to marry.

climbingsingle · March 2014

We're not religious at all. FI's friend is marrying us.

blabla89 · March 2014

I voted turtles because FI and I are already following the "stipulations" as a matter of what we believe is right for us, not because anyone at our church told us to. I think that those are reasonable, Biblically based requirements, but it isn't my place to tell anyone else they have to follow them. I am surprised that the officiant wouldn't be a bit more lenient since your FI is living in your parents' home.

If the officiant won't marry you, does that also mean you don't get your venue of choice?

cruffino · March 2014

We had a non-denominational Christian ceremony. Our pastor only required one meeting to get to know us.

We chose to do Engaged Encounter on our own because we wanted a special time to reflect on our upcoming marriage. It was my most favorite event of the engagement period.

sarahufl · March 2014

We first met with my priest at home who is doing the ceremony. We have met with the priest at the church we attend here in NYC. We also did Pre-Cana in New York. When we first met the priest, he was filling out our file and asked FI for his address. He looked at me and said "is yours the same?". I said no, and gave him mine.

Never mentioned sex.

HisGirlFriday13 · March 2014

urbaneca said:

Our officiant (FI's uncle) has asked us to do marriage prep. He recommended Engagement Encounter, being a Catholic priest, but FI told him I'm not religious and he said we could do FAMSA or any other marriage prep and he'll accept it.

We're still not 100% certain that he will be our officiant. We're trying to arrange to meet with him at the end of the month to sort everything out. I couldn't make it to the last meeting because I got stuck at work, so FI had to try and explain why I want non-religious vows (because I feel that making vows involving a deity I don't believe in is disrespectful to FI, to myself, and to everyone who DOES believe).

FI and his family REALLY want uncle to officiate, so I'm hoping that we can work something out.

Anyway, other than that we haven't had any requirements or stipulations. We may end up having a civil officiant from the municipal office, or even my ex-boss, and I'm fairly certain neither of them have any requirements or stipulations other than being legally able to marry.

@urbaneca -- I'm curious, how are you going to square that circle? I mean, it's one thing to have a family member perform the ceremony, but a Catholic priest (should be) bound by his vows of Holy Orders *not* to perform a marriage that is non-Catholic, let along non-religious entirely.

Please understand -- I'm not judging your desire for a non-religious wedding, I'm just curious why having a priest officiate seems like a good idea, given your non-religious beliefs.

selenathegreat · March 2014

Our Unitarian officiant wanted only to interview us to see if we seemed like we were in a healthy relationship.

pumpkinsandturkeys · March 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

urbaneca said:

Our officiant (FI's uncle) has asked us to do marriage prep. He recommended Engagement Encounter, being a Catholic priest, but FI told him I'm not religious and he said we could do FAMSA or any other marriage prep and he'll accept it.

We're still not 100% certain that he will be our officiant. We're trying to arrange to meet with him at the end of the month to sort everything out. I couldn't make it to the last meeting because I got stuck at work, so FI had to try and explain why I want non-religious vows (because I feel that making vows involving a deity I don't believe in is disrespectful to FI, to myself, and to everyone who DOES believe).

FI and his family REALLY want uncle to officiate, so I'm hoping that we can work something out.

Anyway, other than that we haven't had any requirements or stipulations. We may end up having a civil officiant from the municipal office, or even my ex-boss, and I'm fairly certain neither of them have any requirements or stipulations other than being legally able to marry.

@urbaneca -- I'm curious, how are you going to square that circle? I mean, it's one thing to have a family member perform the ceremony, but a Catholic priest (should be) bound by his vows of Holy Orders *not* to perform a marriage that is non-Catholic, let along non-religious entirely.

Please understand -- I'm not judging your desire for a non-religious wedding, I'm just curious why having a priest officiate seems like a good idea, given your non-religious beliefs.

This.

I'm wondering the same thing. I understand that your FI's family wants the uncle to officiate; however, his beliefs go directly against your own, and yours against his.

I don't understand why you would want a Catholic officiant if you don't want God in your vows or in your marriage. I also don't know any priest who would agree to that.

shaylagirl · March 2014

Non-denominational Christian ceremony here (the only requirement he had).

The ONLY 'requirement' our pastor had was we had to meet with him prior to the ceremony, but that was so he could meet us, and we could put together the ceremony.

Oh, and we had to pay him.

We didn't even do a rehearsal with him (mostly because he said, he charges to do them, and it was too much of a pain in the ass with everything else going on the evening before).

The original plan WAS to have DH's pastor from his church do it...but..as the church required counseling, and for me to say I believe in God...I couldn't do it. I wasn't going to lie, which DH understood.

The backup plan was my MOH/Bestie's husband is also an ordained minister, and he offered to do it. BUT, he was RB wrangler...soooo...we went with the pro.

KytchynWitche · March 2014

@HisGirlFriday13 @pumpkinsandturkeys Stupid TK is not letting me quote. Anyway. Don't worry, I understand completely.

I must be quite honest, I've been wondering the same thing since FI and the FILs insisted that we ask uncle. Having been raised Catholic myself (and more actively so than FI) I always thought that a Catholic priest couldn't marry anyone outside the church. At least, not without special dispensation, which as I understand is a bitch to get. But I'm assuming uncle is open to it. Surely, if he wasn't, he would have turned FI down in November when he first asked? Unless maybe he thinks he's going to convert me...

I'm not opposed to having a religious element in the ceremony, I just refuse to perjure myself by making vows I don't agree with. Does that make sense? I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I feel like making a promise before God is a very serious thing, and if I don't believe in God then I'm really "just saying" it, and if I can "just say" that, then what else can I "just say". To me, religious vows would just be words. You know?

I can't help looking back on my sister's first wedding, where her openly atheist ex-husband made all the customary promises before God because my sister insisted on a Catholic ceremony. When my sister found out that he had been cheating on her, she went on and on about "didn't the vows we took mean anything to him?" and of course they didn't, because to him they were just words that he said so he could screw her. I'm not saying that I have any intention of cheating on FI, or of breaking my vows, I just want them to actually mean something. Anyway, that got a little ranty. Sorry.

Honestly, asking FI's uncle to officiate is purely to keep the family happy. I would much prefer to have a civil officiant. But then, I would much prefer to get married at Home Affairs and have lunch with our parents after, but that's not going to happen.

I suggested to FI that we have a civil officiant and just ask uncle to do a blessing, or to have uncle do everything but the vows and have a civil officiant for that, but apparently neither option is acceptable. I'm not sure what we're going to do if uncle says that he's not going to officiate...

ETA another mention

WR: Requirements and Stipulations

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