Interfaith problems with the MOBs.

Re: Interfaith problems with the MOBs.

• ArtisSkene member

  

  March 2014

  I'm obviously the odd one out here, but I kind of agree with a lot of what OP is trying to say. I think a lot the problems she is encountering here is that its not only interfaith (with one very obscure religion), but also cross cultural. This might sound stupid, but what Danes think is acceptable, and what Brits think is acceptable is not always the same thing.

  
  

  I agree with OP that if her FMIL has so much as requested OP's mum to perform any sort of Hindu ritual, knowing she is not a Hindu (and obviously not caring that people view performing a ritual of a religion that is not their own as disrespectful) that it is very, very rude to refuse to do the same. And I would be very much inclined to do as @HisFridayGirl13 suggested and say that either they all perform all the rituals both MOBs have asked for or do none except the ones the Brides want to do of their own accord.

  
  

  As for @Teddy917 I've been to a full Asatru wedding, and if the ritual OP's mum wants to do is the same one their families did, all the hands are tied together, and the Shaman says a brief blessing over each individual, and the blessing is different for each individual, and then another is blessing is said over all of them, which marks each individual. The one I went to was a special branch of Asatru, and they actually had to cut their hands and allow some blood to go into the bowl and the bowl was then set on fire, but that is unique to that branch, and I don't think that is what OP is going for.

  Report0 Reply
• Maggie0829 member

  

  March 2014

  No one should have to perform a ritual of any kind from any type of religion if they do not want to. Period.  They do not have to give a reason as to why they do not want to perform it because it is their right to just say no without explanation.  Accept this and move on.

  
  

  Report2 Reply
• HisGirlFriday13 member

  

  March 2014

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  Jen4948 said:

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.

  Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.
  
  In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
  

  Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married?

  1. No, I don't, but you agreed to having this wedding, and it apparently matters to your FI, so that's something you two need to work out. If you don't want to participate in the Hindu traditions because you don't, then don't. That's your choice.

  
  

  2. No idea, but it doesn't matter because YOUR. FMIL. ISN'T. THE. ONE. GETTING. MARRIED. You and your FI are. So you and your FI need to get on the same page about the religious aspects of this wedding.

  
  

  FTR, I would hard-core judge the ever-loving shit out of someone who 'faked' religion or a belief in a god -- any god -- just for the sake of getting married. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to have the courage of your (lack of) convictions and express whatever religious beliefs you do (or do not) have.

  
  

  

  
  

  
  

  I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'

  Report2 Reply
• pumpkinsandturkeys member

  

  March 2014

  Wow, this one just won't end.

  
  

  FMIL does not need a reason for not wanting to do it. She doesn't want to, and you need to respect that. Period.

  
  

  No one in this whole scenario should be this immature. Either you're all on the same page, or you're not. No one should be forced or pressured into anything, from either side.

  
  

  You need to decide what YOU and YOUR FI want to do, and do that. You should not count on or expect involvement from anyone else. If you cannot sort this out, I have no idea how you're going to survive a marriage and navigating both sides if you have kids, etc.

  
  

  Please listen to PPs. We're trying to get through to you and you're so concerned about defending yourself and your mother's religion that you can't see the woods for the trees.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Report1 Reply
• cruffino member

  

  March 2014

  I totally get that it's hurtful that your FMIL refuses to participate. But you need to heed PP. She doesn't need to participate on anything that she doesn't want to, period.
  
  Maybe it would help if you refocus this energy on what you and your FI want to do, and less on what others don't want to do.

  Report2 Reply
• LadyMorvenMacBeth member

  

  March 2014

  HisGirlFriday13 said: LadyMorvenMacBeth said: Jen4948 said: LadyMorvenMacBeth said: My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do. Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.
  
  In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
  Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married? 1. No, I don't, but you agreed to having this wedding, and it apparently matters to your FI, so that's something you two need to work out. If you don't want to participate in the Hindu traditions because you don't, then don't. That's your choice.
  2. No idea, but it doesn't matter because YOUR. FMIL. ISN'T. THE. ONE. GETTING. MARRIED. You and your FI are. So you and your FI need to get on the same page about the religious aspects of this wedding.
  FTR, I would hard-core judge the ever-loving shit out of someone who 'faked' religion or a belief in a god -- any god -- just for the sake of getting married. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to have the courage of your (lack of) convictions and express whatever religious beliefs you do (or do not) have.
  The me doing Hindu rituals isn't a problem. We don't need to work it out; I basically agreed to it when I asked her to marry me. My point was that I will be swearing to gods I don't believe in because it matters to FI that I do. Because the rituals she 100% wants them. I'm not faking a belief in said gods, everybody knows I don't believe in them, but if I don't swear by them anyway, the rituals are pointless. Judge me if you like, you have to swear by gods you don't believe in if you are having an interfaith wedding, really.

  
  

  We are also doing another set of vows (in the same ceremony) that do not swear to any gods, because that is what is important to me. FI and I are on the same page when it comes to the religious aspects of the wedding.

  
  

  I don't know what else you want me to say; FI and I are agreed that either we do the Asatru ritual (and by we I mean her mother too) and the 3 rituals that her mother asked for (which involve my mother) or none of the above. You could say that that is forcing her to do the ritual,  but we are not having my mother change the ritual again, and if she gets to request that we do things we, all things considered, would prefer not to do, then so does she. 

  

  
  

  
  

  Report0 Reply
• Maggie0829 member

  

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  HisGirlFriday13 said:

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  Jen4948 said:

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.

  Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.
  
  In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
  

  Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married?

  1. No, I don't, but you agreed to having this wedding, and it apparently matters to your FI, so that's something you two need to work out. If you don't want to participate in the Hindu traditions because you don't, then don't. That's your choice.

  
  

  2. No idea, but it doesn't matter because YOUR. FMIL. ISN'T. THE. ONE. GETTING. MARRIED. You and your FI are. So you and your FI need to get on the same page about the religious aspects of this wedding.

  
  

  FTR, I would hard-core judge the ever-loving shit out of someone who 'faked' religion or a belief in a god -- any god -- just for the sake of getting married. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to have the courage of your (lack of) convictions and express whatever religious beliefs you do (or do not) have.

  
  

  The me doing Hindu rituals isn't a problem. We don't need to work it out; I basically agreed to it when I asked her to marry me. My point was that I will be swearing to gods I don't believe in because it matters to FI that I do. Because the rituals she 100% wants them. I'm not faking a belief in said gods, everybody knows I don't believe in them, but if I don't swear by them anyway, the rituals are pointless. Judge me if you like, you have to swear by gods you don't believe in if you are having an interfaith wedding, really.

  
  

  We are also doing another set of vows (in the same ceremony) that do not swear to any gods, because that is what is important to me. FI and I are on the same page when it comes to the religious aspects of the wedding.

  
  

  I don't know what else you want me to say; FI and I are agreed that either we do the Asatru ritual (and by we I mean her mother too) and the 3 rituals that her mother asked for (which involve my mother) or none of the above. You could say that that is forcing her to do the ritual,  but we are not having my mother change the ritual again, and if she gets to request that we do things we, all things considered, would prefer not to do, then so does she. 

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  
  

  The bolded is all that matters.  Stick with what you and your FI want and leave the rest out of it.  This really isn't that hard.

  
  

  Why are you letting your FMIL request things?  If you don't want to do them then say no.  And no your Mom shouldn't have to change around her ritual but your FMIL does not have to perform it either.  Again, do the rituals that you and your FI want to do that only involve you and your FI and leave the mothers out of the ceremony. Problem solved.
  

  
  

  Edited because the quote box is being weird.

  
  

  Report0 Reply
• HisGirlFriday13 member

  

  March 2014

  Then do none of them. Which I suggested two freaking days ago.
  
  Do. None. Of. Them.

  

  
  

  
  

  I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'

  Report2 Reply
• Jen4948 member

  

  March 2014

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  Jen4948 said:

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.

  Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.
  
  In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
  

  Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married?

  I don't need to know either of these things.  What I do know is that it is not appropriate to participate in religious rituals where you claim belief in a religious tenet or deity when that's not actually the case.  It is disrespectful to those who do believe in it, and it is disrespectful to who or what you do believe in.
  
  Sorry, but the fact that this is a Hindu wedding and your mother wants a ritual in another tradition that your FMIL does not want to participate in is something you and she need to let go of.  Find some way to have the ritual without your FMIL's participation, or if that's not possible, don't have the ritual. But whatever you decide to do, your FMIL is an adult and is entitled to have her own religious beliefs respected, including not being pressured to participate in a ritual she does not believe in just to make someone else happy, let alone make her happy to do it for you.  So the best thing you and your mother can do is let go of the idea that she has to participate.  Bottom line-she's not going to.
  

  Report5 Reply
• NavyBlue143 member

  

  March 2014

  I just want to point out that interfaith weddings do not by default mean swearing to gods you don't believe in. When my husband and I made our vows, I made them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he made them in the name of Odin. Not once did either of us profess beliefs we didn't have. Vowing to a god you don't believe in is what makes the ritual pointless. Rituals are only words and traditions. They can be changed. Sure they are important, but the world does not end if they are adapted. And that can be the beauty of an interfaith ceremony. You get to write your own rituals.
  
  Besides, you said yourself you are participating in Hindu rituals because they are important to your FI. Whether FMIL wants them or not should then be irrelevant. If an Asatru ritual is important to your family, do it, with or without MIL. The world will not end, and no reason your family should go without because someone doesn't want to participate.

  Report2 Reply
• PrettyGirlLost member

  

  March 2014 edited March 2014

  
  

  NavyBlue143 said:

  I just want to point out that interfaith weddings do not by default mean swearing to gods you don't believe in. When my husband and I made our vows, I made them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he made them in the name of Odin. Not once did either of us profess beliefs we didn't have. Vowing to a god you don't believe in is what makes the ritual pointless. Rituals are only words and traditions. They can be changed. Sure they are important, but the world does not end if they are adapted. And that can be the beauty of an interfaith ceremony. You get to write your own rituals. Besides, you said yourself you are participating in Hindu rituals because they are important to your FI. Whether FMIL wants them or not should then be irrelevant. If an Asatru ritual is important to your family, do it, with or without MIL. The world will not end, and no reason your family should go without because someone doesn't want to participate.

  All of the bolded.
  
  A person's religious beliefs and their willingness to participate- or not- in religious ceremonies and rituals that they don't personally believe in are private matters that are between that person and their God. 
  
  No one should be forced or guilted into participating in anything they don't feel comfortable taking part in or simply just don't want to take part in.
  
  But likewise, there's no need for unrelated 3rd parties to take offense and to feel disrespected by someone who chooses to participate in a ceremony or ritual even if said ritual has no personal significance to them other than it has deep significance to the person they are marrying and that they love.  They aren't invalidating your religion or your beliefs by participating.  They aren't participating to be spiteful or in an attempt to piss off your God.  They are participating out of respect and love for the person they are marrying, even if they don't personally believe the same thing.
  
  I know many of you aren't going to understand my opinion nor agree with it, and that's fine.  But I was raised in a multi faith household- Catholic and Buddhist-  so my worldview and perspective on religion is very different from most.
  

  
  "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
  
  

  
  

  Report2 Reply
• Ilumine member

  

  March 2014

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  Jen4948 said:

  LadyMorvenMacBeth said:

  My mother is an Asatru Shaman, my siblings are Asatru, I am a Pantheist and FI and her family are all Hindu. My mother has asked FI and I if we can perform a Asatru ritual at some point in the day (it's a ritual that only involves the wedding couple and immediate family, so it won't be during the ceremony) which FI and I have zero problems with, seeing as it is the religion I was brought up with and it's really important to my mother. We told FIs family about it and on the whole they were absolutely fine with it, until FI's mother found out that she had to be in the ritual. And now she says she's not coming to the wedding if she has to perform the ritual (which both FI and I think is bullshit), but all the same, we want her to be at least okay with having to do the ritual. I'm doing Hindu rituals that I don't believe in, but its really important to FI, so I'm quite happy to do them. My mother is paying for some of the wedding, I can't just turn around and say 'no, you can't have a ritual that's really important to you that we've already said is fine'. And we are just kind of lost with what to do.

  Regardless of how much your mother is contributing financially, I think you and she need to let this one go and stop seeing it as "disrespectful" if your FMIL does not participate.  While I agree that threatening to boycott your wedding is bullshit, your FMIL is not going to be "happy" about "having to" perform this ritual, and trying to force her to is disrespectful to her.
  
  In fact, it is disrespectful to insist that a nonbeliever (or anyone, really) participate in a ritual who does not want to, and it is disrespectful for a nonbeliever to the other religious faith to participate in a religious ritual that they do not believe in. 
  

  Maybe that would be the case in a lot of situations. But do you know how difficult it would be to have a Hindu wedding (and it is mainly a Hindu wedding), where I couldn't perform any of the rituals? Do you know how many people everyday swear to gods they don't believe in when they get married?

  SO what you are saying is that because other people are being disrespectful and hypocritical, your family and friends and even yourself should be?  

  
  

  Here's the thing...you have written in two different places that you are doing the Hindu practices because your FI is Hindu and wants them but then also seems to place the blame squarely at the feet of your MIL. 

  
  

  Which one is it?  Because the fact of the matter is, these are two separate issues. Your MIL is not getting the Hindu rituals because she is demanding them, she is getting them because your FI is providing them to her.  It is a perk for her but SHE IS NOT HOLDING ANYTHING OR ANYONE HOSTAGE here.  

  
  

  SO in the end, this is about you demanding your FMIL to PARTICIPATE (not sit through, not watch but actually participate) in a Religious ceremony that she does not believe in, thus making a mockery of that ceremony, that religion and her own religion?  

  
  

  
  

  And honestly if your Mom believes in the symbolism of this ceremony than does she and you really want an unhappy participant to begin with? Doesn't that actually TAKE AWAY FROM the innate religious point of the ceremony?  

  
  

  SO in the end, if all your mother wants is someone pretending up there, then SHE really must not put as much stock in the ceremony and her religion.  Because its not about the true meaning anymore, but about being RIGHT.  

  
  

  And again, just because other people have been demanding of this hypocrisy, that does not mean YOU get to...or you are no better than they are.  

  
  

  My suggestion, YOU and YOUR FI do the ceremonies that YOU BOTH want.  And if that satisfies other family members or friends, good for them.  But if you start off your marriage doing ceremonies for your mothers (honestly, if you are Pantheast that means you left the Ashanti religion for a reason, so you are ONLY doing this hand tying thing to make HER happy, not satisfy your religious needs) then you are going to spend the rest of your married life trying to make them happy.  And that will lead to an unhappy marriage. 

  
  

  Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml

  Report0 Reply