Chit Chat

Real Estate is NOT for the faint of heart... (vent)

AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
edited April 2014 in Chit Chat
ETA: TK ate my paragraghs...  Grrr...

So there has been some drama with the house we are buying and we are about 5 minutes from walking away from the deal (fortunately penalty free due to the contract we signed). The drama started on Monday when we heard from the sellers about the closing date they wanted (we didn't specify a time frame on the contract which actually made the sellers quite happy). They wanted to close on Tuesday, May 20th but thy wouldn't let us take possession until Monday, May 26th (Memorial Day for those who don't have a calendar in front of them). They need FIVE days to move out of a house?!? FUCK NO. 

It turns out we are the first domino that needs to fall to make several other transactions happen. The sellers of "our" house need the equity in the house to fund the purchase of their new house. The sellers of THAT house need the equity to fund THEIR next house. Somehow that leaves us getting shafted when we are the driving force that keeps everyone's deals alive. 

We talked with our realtor and we offered three different options that we would find acceptable to show that we are willing to be flexible and not be the assholes that screwed it up for everyone. We offered to close on the same day as the other transaction (back to back closings) at the title company of the sellers choice and we would take possession no longer than 48 hours later. Option 2 was to close on the 20th like they originally requested, but again we take possession no longer than 48 hours later. The third option is the most inconvenient to us, it would be closing on the 20th and possession on the 26th but they would pay us $150/day to cover the mortgage and inconvenience along with a few other clauses to protect us. 

We finally heard back from them today, while we were in the middle of the home inspection. When I saw the email from our realtor I just about turned into Hulk I was so angry. Our realtors had been going back and forth and the "compromise" is almost worse than their original plan. They propose we close on the 20th and now possession is push back to the EVENING of the 27th (meaning there is little/no chance of moving in until Wednesday, over a week after signing the papers), but they would pay us a pro-rated amount to cover the daily rate for the mortgage, but only for four days. HELL.FUCKING.NO. 

Turns out the sellers signed their contract on the new house allowing the sellers of their new home to take 4 days to move out (dumb move on their part). Their problem is now OUR problem because it will supposedly take the sellers and additional two days to move out of "our" house. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you can put your house on the market, find a buyer, have a minimum of 30 days between the contract and closing and then still need 4 days to actually move out?!?!?!?!?! 

 H was ready to walk at that point. I was pretty angry, but not ready to give up quite yet. The inspection wasn't horrible, but there are some potential big problems that need to be addressed (or they need to give us a credit at closing) or we are done. The gutters need cleaned and repaired, there are some minor grading issues that could lead to foundation issues down the road, several windows have issues (spring doesn't work, missing screens, won't open), some outside trim issues and several other minor issues we aren't even bothering to ask that they fix. There are some structural concerns in the basement where some walls are bowing and needs an additional beam (in addition to what is there already) and some bowing of walls that are finished so we can see if they have beams in place already. 

 The kicker is while there is nothing technically wrong with the HVAC both systems are original to the house (31 years old) so they will need to be replaced sooner than later. Assuming the deal goes through we will have a home warranty that will cover HVAC so we hope it kicks the bucket within the next 12 months. The roof is approximately 11 years old so in the next 5 years or so we will have to replace the roof. There are multiple layers up there so it will be more expensive because we can't put another layer of shingles on top of the existing ones. Conservatively we are looking at $15,000+ of necessary expenses (not counting some of the fun stuff we want to do, like adding a deck on the back next to the Florida room. At this point I think we have a less than 33% chance of closing on this house. Our agent sent over our final offer on the closing/possession debate and said they had until noon tomorrow to respond. Even assuming they agree I doubt they are willing to fix all the issues the inspection turned up. 

 A very, very small part of me feels bad for them. I think a lot of these problems are being caused by the sellers of the other house, but they aren't helping matters. No matter what they are going to take a hit. When we present the inspection report to them they are going to be out a bunch of money or out buyers (which in turn puts their new house out of reach). I'm probably too frustrated at this point to be really sad. I love(d) that house, but with every communication from the sellers/their agent I get a little more pissed off and that is leaving a lot of negative energy towards the property in general. 
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Re: Real Estate is NOT for the faint of heart... (vent)

  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited April 2014
    I was a full time real estate agent in suburban Maryland for four years.  Your situation is not unusual at all.
    1.  Do you want the house?
    2.  What will it actually cost you to let them have a few extra days?  If it is less than $2000, let it go.
    3.  Relax.  Unless you decide to make trouble, your agents will make sure that it all happens.  They want you to be happy, and they want their commission.
    4.  Once you have moved into the house, none of this will matter.
    5.  There is actually a financial plus for you to settle closer to the end of the month.  It has to do with the way interest is calculated.
    Good luck.  Have a margarita.
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  • I'm so glad you fixed the paragraphs -- this was hard to read at first!

    Having read it now, I'm really sorry for you. That all sounds awful. :(
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  • behsco90behsco90 Oregon member
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    edited April 2014
    I used to be a realtor and I also recently purchased my first home, so I understand your frustration.  It sounds like a pretty complicated transaction, at least it's not a short sale!  I understand why you are upset about the sellers needing almost a week to move out, and after closing, I would want them to pay me too.  But if they don't, are you willing to walk away from the house because of it?

    I know that's not the only concern, you have all the expenses, which is another consideration, but given all that, I think that's the one question you have to ask yourselves.  Would you feel okay losing the home and finding another one if they don't agree?  I had to ask myself that question for almost a year while I waited to hear back on my condo (it was a short sale).  But hopefully they will agree to your final offer and everything will work out!

    Good luck!

    ETA: CMGragain put it much better than I did! :)
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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    I'm so glad you fixed the paragraphs -- this was hard to read at first!

    Having read it now, I'm really sorry for you. That all sounds awful. :(
    This is the third time I've bought a house and while I haven't cried (yet) this has been the most frustrating so far.  H has bought and sold a condo and he hasn't had a good experience with real estate yet.  If we end up with the house great (because the bones and space are great for our long term plans) but I know we can find something just as awesome and hopefully not as difficult to close on.

    I'm not sure why all of my paragraphs disappeared the first time.  I swear they were all there when I typed it up.  I'm glad the second time they stuck around.  It would have been impossible to read otherwise.  lol
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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    CMGragain said:
    I was a full time real estate agent in suburban Maryland for four years.  Your situation is not unusual at all.
    1.  Do you want the house?
    2.  What will it actually cost you to let them have a few extra days?  If it is less than $2000, let it go.
    3.  Relax.  Unless you decide to make trouble, your agents will make sure that it all happens.  They want you to be happy, and they want their commission.
    4.  Once you have moved into the house, none of this will matter.
    5.  There is actually a financial plus for you to settle closer to the end of the month.  It has to do with the way interest is calculated.
    Good luck.  Have a margarita.
    The situation is pretty unusual for this area (especially the amount of time between closing and possession).  Our agent is frustrated for us because she thinks that the sellers are taking advantage of our excellent offer ($100 over asking, not contingent on the sale of our current home and closing date negotiable).

    The market is hot right now in our area, but to find another buyer that can put up a similar offer and close on their timetable would be difficult if not impossible.  I just can't believe they aren't being flexible at all.  We gave them our best and final offer with the closing/possession issue and they have to respond by noon tomorrow.  At that point we will give them the inspection report and fight that battle.

    This is exhausting...
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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    behsco90 said:
    I used to be a realtor and I also recently purchased my first home, so I understand your frustration.  It sounds like a pretty complicated transaction, at least it's not a short sale!  I understand why you are upset about the sellers needing almost a week to move out, and after closing, I would want them to pay me too.  But if they don't, are you willing to walk away from the house because of it?

    I know that's not the only concern, you have all the expenses, which is another consideration, but given all that, I think that's the one question you have to ask yourselves.  Would you feel okay losing the home and finding another one if they don't agree?  I had to ask myself that question for almost a year while I waited to hear back on my condo (it was a short sale).  But hopefully they will agree to your final offer and everything will work out!

    Good luck!

    ETA: CMGragain put it much better than I did! :)
    They have offered to reimburse us for 4 of the 7 days so we are fighting to get reimbursed for 5 of the 7 (letting them keep the 48 hour window we already offered).  

    At this point we are willing to lose the house (especially after the inspection) because aren't in any hurry (our house is on the market but not under contract) and they have just pissed us off at every turn.  

    I don't want to start over with the hunt, but while it is a great house it isn't the PERFECT house (inspection aside).  We would still want to do some projects...  We want to build a bar, and possibly a bathroom in the basement, expand the kitchen and build a deck.  You add in the items from the inspection and the HVAC and roof and this place could quickly become a money pit.
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  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
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    How are you covering the insurance issue? Once you close on the house, is your insurance company willing to cover potential claims that may arise while the former owners reside in the home?
    kitty8403
  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    mobkaz said:
    How are you covering the insurance issue? Once you close on the house, is your insurance company willing to cover potential claims that may arise while the former owners reside in the home?
    This is something I'm still unclear on.  It sounds like our insurance would be in place since it would be after closing, but I want to make sure they are responsible for any damage that occurs.

    They have agreed to pay rent (but not for the full 7 days) and keep the utilities in their name until we take possession.
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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    phira said:
    And honestly, given that they REALLY need you to buy this house, you'd expect them to be more flexible and less asshole-ish.
    That is what I really don't understand.  I don't expect for EVERYTHING to go our way, but they aren't budging on anything and I feel like we are getting the shaft.

    THEY are the ones who need the equity to move on to their new home.  THEY are the ones who signed the contract allowing the sellers of their new home to wait 4 days to move out.  None of this is our fault and by showing we are willing to be flexible in our closing date they feel like they shouldn't have to make any sacrifices.  I honestly don't understand it.

    They can do short term storage on a moving truck for a day or to to let us get into the house earlier.  They can do PODS... 

    Don't get me started on why it will take them so long to move out once they get possession of their new home.  Again, get your shit packed up.  Moving day isn't a surprise in this situation, you know it is coming.
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    shaylagirl
  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    lyndausvi said:
    I'm sorry, but I'm would not be comfortable closing on a house and not moving in for 7 days. They could in theory put a hole in the wall and it would be your problem. If I was to let them stay, no way I would except anything other than 7 full days of rent. My parents have bought and sold some 25 places, no way in hell they would agree to those terms. They have many times had back-to-back closings. One time my parents sold a place and the buyer wanted to take possession in 10 days. My parent's new place was 2+ months from being complete. What did they do? They lived in a Residence Inn for that amount of time. Sorry, but there are options for the sellers to go between closings, worse case they pay rent to you for those 7 days and held responsible for any damage caused during that time. ETA - sorry I have paragraphs but they are not showing on here.
    Back-to-back closings was Option 1 on our list.  The big closing/possession gap is a concern but as long as we are fully protected and compensated we can deal with the inconvenience.  But at this point we are neither protected or fully compensated.
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  • JoanE2012JoanE2012 Exit 21 (Jersey!) member
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    Can they get a bridge loan so they can close on their new house, move their crap into their new house, and you can close and immediately move in?  I'd be extremely cautious letting previous owners live in what would be YOUR home and YOUR responsibility.

    Regardless, everything happens for a reason.  If it's meant to be, it will be.  Don't stress.  :)
  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
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    JoanE2012 said:
    Can they get a bridge loan so they can close on their new house, move their crap into their new house, and you can close and immediately move in?  I'd be extremely cautious letting previous owners live in what would be YOUR home and YOUR responsibility.

    Regardless, everything happens for a reason.  If it's meant to be, it will be.  Don't stress.  :)
    I don't know if they have looked at it or not...  I don't know how easy/hard they are to qualify for in today's market.  I will ask our realtor if it is an option for the sellers.
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  • FFS that is insane. Sorry you're having to deal with that
  • We had an issue similar to this with our home closing, the sellers wanted to stay after we closed, for a week or two I forget now may be more. It was discovered through our mortgage company that we had to take possession of the house within 24-48 hours after closing.  The whole process of buying the home we live in now stretched out over 6 long painful months.  I love this home so much though... it was worth all the stress.  If you think it's worth it stick it out and negotiate.

    Anniversary

  • phiraphira Bahstin member
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    Right, there's NOTHING that prevents them from packing and putting their stuff in storage/PODS during those 30 days. They make it sound like they have no choice but to sit on their asses for 7 days. I've packed in less time than 7 days and moved in less than a day, and that was without pro movers and a moving van.
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited April 2014
    This is exactly why most people need a professional real estate agent to buy or sell property!  You are emotionally invested in this transaction.  Emotions are not appropriate for business transactions.

    THIS IS BUSINESS.  IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

    Repeat this to yourself three times and have a drink.
    The last thing you want to happen is to piss off your sellers.  They can make the transaction incredibly horrible if they are angry.  Calm down.  Keep your eyes on the prize - in this case, the house you want.  This is all that really matters.  The inconvenience will not be important once you are living in your new home.
    I have sat through negotiations and settlements that are 10 times worse than yours.  I had a seller disappear for 4 weeks.  (He was a drug addict.)  I had a house catch fire before settlement.  I had a couple lose their only child to a drowning accident, just before settlement (tragic), and there were seven other houses on a transaction chain that were dependent on that settlement.  Then there was the husband who fled to Argentina with the money and an office worker, leaving his wife holding the bag. Your problems are very small.

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  • WinstonsGirlWinstonsGirl The Cold North member
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    edited April 2014
    I'd have issues with closing and them being in the house afterwards.  I can't see insurance covering that, since who know what they might do to the house.  I wouldn't do it unless your insurance is airtight in covering your ass if they do anything

    ETA - But maybe I'm not understanding the situation clearly

  • I'd have issues with closing and them being in the house afterwards.  I can't see insurance covering that, since who know what they might do to the house.  I wouldn't do it unless your insurance is airtight in covering your ass if they do anything

    ETA - But maybe I'm not understanding the situation clearly
    The rent back agreement is in writing, and the insurance details are covered in that paper.
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  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
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    AprilH81 said:
    behsco90 said:
    I used to be a realtor and I also recently purchased my first home, so I understand your frustration.  It sounds like a pretty complicated transaction, at least it's not a short sale!  I understand why you are upset about the sellers needing almost a week to move out, and after closing, I would want them to pay me too.  But if they don't, are you willing to walk away from the house because of it?

    I know that's not the only concern, you have all the expenses, which is another consideration, but given all that, I think that's the one question you have to ask yourselves.  Would you feel okay losing the home and finding another one if they don't agree?  I had to ask myself that question for almost a year while I waited to hear back on my condo (it was a short sale).  But hopefully they will agree to your final offer and everything will work out!

    Good luck!

    ETA: CMGragain put it much better than I did! :)
    They have offered to reimburse us for 4 of the 7 days so we are fighting to get reimbursed for 5 of the 7 (letting them keep the 48 hour window we already offered).  

    At this point we are willing to lose the house (especially after the inspection) because aren't in any hurry (our house is on the market but not under contract) and they have just pissed us off at every turn.  

    I don't want to start over with the hunt, but while it is a great house it isn't the PERFECT house (inspection aside).  We would still want to do some projects...  We want to build a bar, and possibly a bathroom in the basement, expand the kitchen and build a deck.  You add in the items from the inspection and the HVAC and roof and this place could quickly become a money pit.
    How will the final walk through be handled?  Typically, once the sellers move completely out, the sellers have an opportunity to walk through the house one last time.  It's a chance to see if any flaws were masked by furnishings, and to insure no damage was made during the move out process. It also allows you to make sure they have not vacated the home and left it in a state of disrepair, and that they have made a reasonable attempt to clean it.   Have you built in an additional contingency for that?
  • I really have nothing constructive to say, but I will relate a story. A friend recently purchased a house, but the sellers asked for several months to rent-back. They had a rental agreement, the whole works, so my friend would be protected. However, their situation was similar in that the HVAC was old and on the way out. Well, it broke while the sellers were still occupying the home, but no longer owners.

    Instead of contacting the real owner (my friend), so she could use her insurance to get a new unit, they called their HVAC guy to come fix it. It was a temporary fix, but possibly extended the life of the unit enough that it will now NOT fail inside the one-year warranty.

    I know, not constructive. Just something to think about.
  • In my opinion, you don't want to piss off a seller. Yes, your transaction sets a domino-effect for a ton of other real estate transactions, I was in your shoes, so I know the pressure. But, if I were in your shoes and I had a roof over my head where I didn't have to be out by X date and you REALLY like the house, I would take the option of closing on X date, putting a condition on the contract that the house has to be in the same condition as the final walk-through or the seller pays an X amount penalty and they supplement your current mortgage (you guys are currently selling your house, right? If not, I'm sorry for the error).

    The seller of my house was in the same situation, but she had her shit packed the minute the contract was signed. During the home inspection stuff was in boxes, she was ready to GO. My REA told me she ended up putting all her stuff in storage, her kid's stuff at her ex-H's house and ended up sleeping on the floor on her ex-H's house four a week because she had to wait for the equity to purchase her new house. She was VERY easy to work with. Of course she could've done the same thing the seller is trying to pull with you, but I would've been okay as long as there were strict conditions to the contract.

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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    CMGragain said:
    This is exactly why most people need a professional real estate agent to buy or sell property!  You are emotionally invested in this transaction.  Emotions are not appropriate for business transactions.

    THIS IS BUSINESS.  IT IS NOT PERSONAL.

    Repeat this to yourself three times and have a drink.
    The last thing you want to happen is to piss off your sellers.  They can make the transaction incredibly horrible if they are angry.  Calm down.  Keep your eyes on the prize - in this case, the house you want.  This is all that really matters.  The inconvenience will not be important once you are living in your new home.
    I have sat through negotiations and settlements that are 10 times worse than yours.  I had a seller disappear for 4 weeks.  (He was a drug addict.)  I had a house catch fire before settlement.  I had a couple lose their only child to a drowning accident, just before settlement (tragic), and there were seven other houses on a transaction chain that were dependent on that settlement.  Then there was the husband who fled to Argentina with the money and an office worker, leaving his wife holding the bag. Your problems are very small.

    Honestly, at this point we don't care if we piss off the sellers.  We are so pissed off ourselves that we just don't care.  We are 100% ready to walk and find a different house that has less problems (the biggest problem being the sellers themselves).

    We are willing to be flexible, but they are acting like they have a all the cards and don't care about being flexible in return when THEY are the ones that need this deal to close.

    If this deal doesn't close we are out time and the inspection fee.  They will have to put the house back on the market, wait for a new buyer, most likely disclose the inspection issues that were found, hope the buyers are willing to wait a week to get into their new home and goodness knows what else.

    The biggest sticking point right now for us is that they aren't willing to pay for the full amount of time they will still be in the house.  They want us to wait 7 days to take possession but only pay us for 4 days.  That needs to be a minimum of 5 days (allowing for the 48 hours we offered in two of the three options) and we need to make sure we are protected by any damages that occur during that time period.

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    MobKazhuskypuppy14
  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers

    In my opinion, you don't want to piss off a seller. Yes, your transaction sets a domino-effect for a ton of other real estate transactions, I was in your shoes, so I know the pressure. But, if I were in your shoes and I had a roof over my head where I didn't have to be out by X date and you REALLY like the house, I would take the option of closing on X date, putting a condition on the contract that the house has to be in the same condition as the final walk-through or the seller pays an X amount penalty and they supplement your current mortgage (you guys are currently selling your house, right? If not, I'm sorry for the error).

    The seller of my house was in the same situation, but she had her shit packed the minute the contract was signed. During the home inspection stuff was in boxes, she was ready to GO. My REA told me she ended up putting all her stuff in storage, her kid's stuff at her ex-H's house and ended up sleeping on the floor on her ex-H's house four a week because she had to wait for the equity to purchase her new house. She was VERY easy to work with. Of course she could've done the same thing the seller is trying to pull with you, but I would've been okay as long as there were strict conditions to the contract.

    The second paragraph is why we are so angry.  They appear to be making NO EFFORT to speed up the process if it results in the least bit of inconvenience to themselves. 

    The seller closes on their new house the day after we do, and they agreed that they wouldn't take possession for 4 days (not our problem they agreed to this) and now the sellers of "our" house want an additional two days to move out once they take possession of their new house.

    Why on earth would you not have your stuff packed up and ready to go?  Hire movers (they aren't that expensive for a local move) if you need more manpower to get out quickly.

    The only thing they have agreed to in any of our scenarios is that they will pay us a daily pro-rated amoount of our mortgage, but even then they aren't paying for the full amount of days they will still be there.  So frustrating....

    Again, I think we could deal with the closing/possession issue, but in combination with the inspection report that is going to involve them making repairs that aren't cheap I just don't see this deal happening.  We are both preparing to start over from scratch which will be sad, but not the end of the world.

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  • @aprilh81 if you're prepared to walk away and you're through the roof frustrated, just do it. Was there something specific about this house that you liked or loved? If yes, then base your next house search on that. Like a PP said, don't get emotionally attached. The whole time my house was in escrow (end of June-beginning of September) I NEVER drove by my house or picked paint colors, furniture, etc. because you never know what could happen. It helped me keep my head clear and not get emotionally attached.

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  • AprilH81AprilH81 Columbus, OH member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited April 2014

    @aprilh81 if you're prepared to walk away and you're through the roof frustrated, just do it. Was there something specific about this house that you liked or loved? If yes, then base your next house search on that. Like a PP said, don't get emotionally attached. The whole time my house was in escrow (end of June-beginning of September) I NEVER drove by my house or picked paint colors, furniture, etc. because you never know what could happen. It helped me keep my head clear and not get emotionally attached.

    We're giving them a chance to work with us and if they don't we are ready to walk.

    Pros of the house: lots of space, newly remodled bathrooms, great storage, florida room, large back yard on a ravine lot, newly finished basement, great neighborhood with easy access to the interstate

    Cons (not counting the inspection results): The kitchen is a little small and I would want to expand it eventually, and we want to put in a deck to extend the outside living space.  The ravine lot is nice but the trees make growing grass hard so we would have to truck in mulch every year to make it pretty.

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  • Personally, it sounds like you're okay walking away from this deal (I probably would have walked a LONG time ago myself). 

    In reality, sounds like the sellers hold no leverage now.  As you've pointed out, you like this house, but also are aware it could be a huge money pit (which would have had me screaming for the hills).

    I hope you post a follow-up after noon when the sellers respond, because, it sounds like they should be kissing your asses to make the sale of their current home happen so they can get the home they (from the sounds of it in your post) have already gotten themselves under contract for.

    Good luck!!  Stay strong and sorry for all the stress you two are going though!  That sucks!  :(
    AprilH81
  • KeptInStitchesKeptInStitches the Northern Plains member
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    I think I would walk almost based on the results of the inspection alone. Structural issues with bowing of walls and floors are nothing to sneeze at. Couple that with the apparent lack of compromise from the sellers and I'd be done.
    pinkshorts27jdluvr06
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