Orthodox PPD

moosette113 · April 2014

How rude would it be to change an RSVP to “no” after already replying “yes”?

My H and I were invited to the Orthodox Jewish wedding of his two friends. I’ve always been hesitant about attending the wedding. I find the prospect of split gender dancing (stemming from the belief that men cannot touch women who are at certain points in their menstrual cycle) pretty offensive. On top of that, there is no real “reception” at Orthodox weddings- the party following the wedding ceremony is actually an event to specifically honor and entertain the newly married couple, not to receive guests. H said he wouldn't attend if I didn't, but he would definitely be sad if he wasn't there. I decided I could suck it up for one night, so he sent in the reply card indicating we would both be attending. I even hunted down a perfectly modest dress so I could be appropriately respectful of their beliefs.

We come to find out this week that the couple is having a quick civil ceremony at home before their “wedding” because they didn’t properly research the requirements for an out-of-state wedding. The bride said it in passing to H, but it didn’t seem like it was something they were going to be openly advertising.

So what would you do? I was never really thrilled with the idea of going to this “wedding”, but now that we found out that it’s going to be a PPD, H isn’t too excited about attending anymore. Not that it matters, but the couple does not actually see their civil ceremony as getting married (essentially, you’re not actually married in Judaism unless you have an actual Jewish ceremony- civil marriages are not recognized as binding). There’s no equivalent of a Convalidation in Judaism.

Simply Fated · April 2014

While there is no direct term like "convalidation" in Judiasm, what you described them planning on doing is pretty much the same thing. The had a civil ceremony, now it will be recognized by the temple.
If you are morally opposed, call them and send your regrets. NBD.

JaxInBlue · April 2014

When is the wedding? Could you conceivably change your RSVP in enough time so that they could (if necessary) change their catering arrangements? If you think that's a yes, I'd be okay with you now declining to attend. I wouldn't lie about why though - if you are pressed (they shouldn't) I think "Our circumstances have changed and we're no longer able to attend." is fine.

I might suck it up and go though if the wedding is say, tomorrow. But maybe leave as early as you can?

HisGirlFriday13 · April 2014

I'm confused about the out-of-state requirements they didn't research. Orthodox Jewish weddings are legally binding, so what out of state requirements are they missing? Something doesn't make sense here.

That being said, given the very judgey tone of your post, I think you should change your RSVP to 'no' not because of the PPD (which it sounds like this sort of is and sort of isn't) but because you're being closed-minded, bigoted, and judegemental about their religion and their religious choices, which are NONE of your business.

You don't have to like what their religion dictates, but you have to either go and accept it or stay home as a way or not accepting it. Snarking about it isn't cool.

casey8784 · April 2014

moosette113 said:

How rude would it be to change an RSVP to “no” after already replying “yes”?

My H and I were invited to the Orthodox Jewish wedding of his two friends. I’ve always been hesitant about attending the wedding. I find the prospect of split gender dancing (stemming from the belief that men cannot touch women who are at certain points in their menstrual cycle) pretty offensive. On top of that, there is no real “reception” at Orthodox weddings- the party following the wedding ceremony is actually an event to specifically honor and entertain the newly married couple, not to receive guests. H said he wouldn't attend if I didn't, but he would definitely be sad if he wasn't there. I decided I could suck it up for one night, so he sent in the reply card indicating we would both be attending. I even hunted down a perfectly modest dress so I could be appropriately respectful of their beliefs.

We come to find out this week that the couple is having a quick civil ceremony at home before their “wedding” because they didn’t properly research the requirements for an out-of-state wedding. The bride said it in passing to H, but it didn’t seem like it was something they were going to be openly advertising.

So what would you do? I was never really thrilled with the idea of going to this “wedding”, but now that we found out that it’s going to be a PPD, H isn’t too excited about attending anymore. Not that it matters, but the couple does not actually see their civil ceremony as getting married (essentially, you’re not actually married in Judaism unless you have an actual Jewish ceremony- civil marriages are not recognized as binding). There’s no equivalent of a Convalidation in Judaism.

I'm actually very curious as to why you are saying that you know that there will be segregated dancing, etc. Has the bride or groom or someone in the "inner circle" told this to you? I'm only asking because I'm Jewish (not Orthodox, but have many Orthodox relatives and friends) and have been to many many Orthodox weddings, and the only way the reception was different than non-Jewish (or Conservative/Reform Jewish) weddings is that there's a bit more Hebrew, prayers/blessings, and some more traditional "prep" before the ceremony. No gender-split dancing and the reception was as much as a "thank you" to guests as "regular" weddings. There may be a few gender specific traditional dances, but not the entire time. Ultra Orthodox or Hassidic Jews are usually the ones that have the weddings that you described...

In terms of the PPD, I think they messed up with their planning and rules/requirements like you mentioned, and they're just trying to cover their butts. It doesn't seem like they're having a PPD because they "just can't wait to get married!" and then completely lie to their guests, so something like this I might side-eye a bit, but let it slide more than a stereotypical PPD.

Also, to the couple, it *does* matter because like you said, they are not married in the eyes of Judaism with only a civil ceremony. They may think that having the civil part beforehand isn't a big deal, not realizing that others would side-eye it.

If you don't want to go, don't go. Let them know that "something came up/circumstances have changed" but don't go into detail about how you're morally opposed to their religious views... that never goes over smoothly

crunchymamaof2 · April 2014

If you're not close to the couple then don't go. Though I find the reasoning a bit judge mental. It's their religion so it's not like they're separating men and women for shits and giggles. You don't have to participate in the dancing, etc but you could still go to support your friends. Now, I don't like the PPD aspect and that would have me questioning my attendance. I also don't think it's equivalent to a convalidation. It's not like they became orthodox after marrying or couldn't get married in their temple due to an illness, etc. they just didn't do their homework and this is the fallout. If they were honest with everyone I probably wouldn't care though TBH.

phira · April 2014

So, I'd actually RSVP no to an Orthodox Jewish wedding because I am really uncomfortable with Orthodox traditions. When I was in college, I went to Orthodox services once with my boyfriend, and I never went back after that (splitting men and women during the service + men refusing to shake my hand + the prayer during dinner about how women should aspire to be the best damn wives ever).

I wouldn't really have any judgments about the couple's relationship, and would absolutely send a gift, but I just don't have it in me to go to an Orthodox Jewish wedding.

However, OP, look--you RSVPed yes. It's rude at this point to change your RSVP because you've decided you now don't want to go. Changing your RSVP this late in the game is okay for stuff like, say, family emergencies, illnesses, missing flights, etc etc. But not this.

mysticl · April 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'm confused about the out-of-state requirements they didn't research. Orthodox Jewish weddings are legally binding, so what out of state requirements are they missing? Something doesn't make sense here. That being said, given the very judgey tone of your post, I think you should change your RSVP to 'no' not because of the PPD (which it sounds like this sort of is and sort of isn't) but because you're being closed-minded, bigoted, and judegemental about their religion and their religious choices, which are NONE of your business. You don't have to like what their religion dictates, but you have to either go and accept it or stay home as a way or not accepting it. Snarking about it isn't cool.

Maybe the state they are getting married in has a waiting period after the license is issued and they won't be getting there far enough in advance to apply for the license. In which case it doesn't matter if the religious ceremony would normally be legally binding because they won't have a valid license.

Right there with you on the rest of it.

huskypuppy14 · April 2014

phira said:

So, I'd actually RSVP no to an Orthodox Jewish wedding because I am really uncomfortable with Orthodox traditions. When I was in college, I went to Orthodox services once with my boyfriend, and I never went back after that (splitting men and women during the service + men refusing to shake my hand + the prayer during dinner about how women should aspire to be the best damn wives ever).

I wouldn't really have any judgments about the couple's relationship, and would absolutely send a gift, but I just don't have it in me to go to an Orthodox Jewish wedding.

However, OP, look--you RSVPed yes. It's rude at this point to change your RSVP because you've decided you now don't want to go. Changing your RSVP this late in the game is okay for stuff like, say, family emergencies, illnesses, missing flights, etc etc. But not this.

If she is still within the RSVP window, then she can change her mind. Like another poster said, if the wedding is in a week or 2, then you should probably go, but if it's before the RSVP date, it shouldn't matter.

LabLove86 · April 2014

moosette113 said:

How rude would it be to change an RSVP to “no” after already replying “yes”?

My H and I were invited to the Orthodox Jewish wedding of his two friends. I’ve always been hesitant about attending the wedding. I find the prospect of split gender dancing (stemming from the belief that men cannot touch women who are at certain points in their menstrual cycle) pretty offensive. On top of that, there is no real “reception” at Orthodox weddings- the party following the wedding ceremony is actually an event to specifically honor and entertain the newly married couple, not to receive guests. H said he wouldn't attend if I didn't, but he would definitely be sad if he wasn't there. I decided I could suck it up for one night, so he sent in the reply card indicating we would both be attending. I even hunted down a perfectly modest dress so I could be appropriately respectful of their beliefs.

We come to find out this week that the couple is having a quick civil ceremony at home before their “wedding” because they didn’t properly research the requirements for an out-of-state wedding. The bride said it in passing to H, but it didn’t seem like it was something they were going to be openly advertising.

So what would you do? I was never really thrilled with the idea of going to this “wedding”, but now that we found out that it’s going to be a PPD, H isn’t too excited about attending anymore. Not that it matters, but the couple does not actually see their civil ceremony as getting married (essentially, you’re not actually married in Judaism unless you have an actual Jewish ceremony- civil marriages are not recognized as binding). There’s no equivalent of a Convalidation in Judaism.

I don't think this is true - my cousins are about as Orthodox as you can get, and I've been to 3 of their weddings- and while yes the sexes are segregated everything else about the receptions are the same as a 'normal' wedding. We get delicious food, we have great conversation with our tables, and we DANCE. Let me tell you - the jewish community DANCES.

Other than that - I understand that you may think that their beliefs are offensive - but this is how they were raised. It is what they were taught to believe in and it is their custom. And the Orthodox community as a whole is generally accepting of this. Just because a group believes something different than you doesn't make it wrong. And they are not harming anyone by NOT touching women.

Also - it sounds like this is something that your SO would like to attend, and while it may not be top priority for you, it may be for him - that is what we do for our significant others - we put up with situations that are not our favorite because it is important to them. I am sure he has done things for you in the past that he didn't want to, and I am sure he will in the future.

So on one hand I want to tell you to go to support your H, and on the other I want to tell you not to because you clearly don't respect the religion. So I guess there is an upside to whatever it is that you choose to do.

pinkcow13 · April 2014

Your post seems judgmental and I get the impression that you just kinda want a reason not to go, this "issue" came up, and now this is your out. Look, it's one night and it seems that this is important to your husband. We all make sacrifices for those we love. Personally, I may not agree with certain aspects of a religion, but I respect all religions. And if I had a friend who was having a religious wedding, no matter the religion and beliefs, I would attend. I can sit through a mass, sit separately from my FI, or whatever else a religion dictates. At the end of the day, I'm there to celebrate my friends wedding day, and I can respect whatever their religion dictates. As for the PPD aspect, honestly, it's not that serious. I've been to PPD's , it's not the end of the world. You side eye it, and move on. By the way, after I read your post I googled Orthodox Jewish weddings and watched a few videos, and they look quite beautiful and fun. Who knows, you may end up loving it. Have an open mind

Amyzen83 · April 2014

I agree with the pps above and have nothing to add. I think your reasoning not to go is kinda judgy and self serving. If I were the couple and heard you talk about our faith this way I'd I uninvite you becaus if I'm doing everything in my power to host you properly, I only want those who can respect my beliefs and support my marriage.

STARMOON44 · April 2014

It would be extremely rude to change your RSVP but it sounds like you don't care about that.

d2va · April 2014

I feel that maybe they didn't plan properly as they didn't know that they didnt need to do certain things in a state they don't live in. It seems that it was definitely not intentional.

Jewish weddings especially orthodox jewish weddings are a very big deal and even though to you it may seem like a ppd... it in fact isn't really as in the religion you must be married by a rabbi, under the chuppah, sign the kettubah etc.

Also as a jew I am slightly miffed at your concern about temporary segregation because of religious reasons. If they were true true orthodox Jews ... you would NOT have been invited. It seems clear to me that they will probably have the service separate and maybe a few traditional dances in the beginning separate but then after the rabbi leaves everyone will be together.

Jen4948 · April 2014

While I agree that the PPD was a fail, I found the rest of your post very offensive.

I'm Jewish but not Orthodox, but I find your being offended because the sexes do not dance together and because the ceremony and reception do not have the meanings in Judaism that they do in other faiths in and of itself offensive. If you can't refrain from judging the beliefs of others, they would be better off without you at the wedding.

netskyblue2 · April 2014

As for the PPD part of it - yeah they screwed up and didn't do their research ahead of time. But it's too late for that now, it sounds like. As a guest, I'd be more "put out" if they cancelled/postponed the wedding after I'd already taken the time off work, and then had to request another date off because of their screw up, than I would be to just attend something such as this as planned.

I don't get the feeling they were intending to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, it was a genuine mistake. I'd probably avoid letting that couple plan anything important for me in the future, though :P

hyechica81 · April 2014

i am orthodox but armenian orthodox ( christian) we don't have segregated parties. our wedding ceremony is really unique as there is the rite of the crowning where the bride and groom are king and queen. men and women can hold hands at the reception and dance together.

the only requirements for the church is i have to have my shoulders covered in the church during the ceremony and my brides have to have coverage as well no bare shoulders showing.

i would feel miffed if someone had assumed something bad about my religion and decided they were going to skip my wedding. i put information about the ceremony on my wedding website so people would know ahead of time what the crowning ceremony meant

do you know that what you said will happen are they strict orthodox Jewish?

ladyamanuet · April 2014

My FBIL is Ultra Orthodox (he is studying to be a rabbi in Jerusalem at a yeshiva) and had a segregated reception. And I can assure you, it was definitely a party. There is drinking, and dancing, and joy - so that part of your objection is not based on fact.

My question is, how Orthodox are they? Will the men and women simply be separated by a rope, so you can see and speak to your husband? Or will the men and women be separated by a "wall" (fabric barrier, usually - this was certainly the case at FBIL wedding)?

If there will be a wall, and you will be apart the entire night, do you have female friends or acquaintances that will be in attendance? You clearly have issues with the religion (which, hey, I get - some of the points you made are exactly the reason FH and I are not Orthodox. But we certainly don't hold it against people who are and we obviously still speak to FBIL and FSIL). If you do not have anyone to sit with and chat with, I think those issues and your judgey-judgement will read loud and clearly on your face.

If you do not know any other females that will be in attendance, I think it is probably best that you change your RSVP (if you are within the RSVP window). No one needs a Negative Nancy bringing down the party.

If you will know other women there, I say go, and for Hera's sake, keep an open mind. Drink the wine, try to learn the dances, enjoy the food.... and don't scowl.

mbross3 · April 2014

OP you don't have to agree with the couple's religious beliefs, but if you have serious qualms with their beliefs, you should have RSVPd "no" from the beginning. It's ok to find some religious beliefs offensive, and it's ok to not agree with them. Religion and religious beliefs aren't above question just for the fact that they are a belief system. However, you cannot pass judgment on the relationship and religious decisions of 2 consenting adults. In your position, I would have said no. I have been to one orthodox wedding and I will never, ever go to another one.

If it's far enough out from the wedding, you should change your RSVP. Yes, it may be rude, but it will be less rude than you going and allowing your feelings about their faith to catch up with you. Trust me when I say that if you feel strongly about this, it will be impossible to hide and at least some people will catch on to your discomfort.

If you feel very strongly about this, again, do not go. It may be important to your FI, but he will have to understand and respect your feelings regarding the religion. However, your big problem here is that you already RSVPd "yes". If it's more than 2 weeks out, call and change it. If it's less than 2 weeks out, go to the ceremony and then leave.

ETA: silly paragraphs!

phira · April 2014

Yeah, it's just now occurring to me that it's not clear how the OP knows the wedding will involve segregation of the sexes, etc. I went to an Orthodox wedding when I was a kid, and the reception was pretty run of the mill.

Simky906 · April 2014

Honestly OP, if you've already RSVPed yes then I would suck it up and go. It seems like it's important to your FI and I would want to support FI. I have a similar situation where I will be attending a (reform) Jewish wedding in June for a couple who had their civil ceremony in October. They do not consider themselves married until their June ceremony. While I may find it not to my personal taste, I'm actually much more annoyed by a) their attempt to have everyone RSVP to the save the date b) the fact that their actual RSVP date for a late June wedding is in mid April and c) that they requested cash gifts only on their website then by the 2 ceremony thing. But it's my FI's cousin so I will go and have a good time because it's important to him. Of course I do not have your same concerns in that it is not an Orthodox wedding, but even if that were the case, I believe I would still attend.

wandajune6 · April 2014

You don't want to go so don't go. When I get married, I don't want guests in attendance who don't want to be there and who don't respect my beliefs.

I was raised Jewish humanist and ardently feminist and, while more traditional orthodox practices can make me uncomfortable, my love, affection and respect for the couple always outweighs those decisions. I support people and their commitments to each other, on their own terms.

As a side note, while the traditions are different, (in my limited experience) a lot of the vows are no more stringent than those women who vow to "love, honor, and obey."

moosette113 · April 2014

Sorry for the delay in responding- I had every intention of responding over the weekend, but the opportunity to get outside presented itself and I just couldn't pass on sunshine after this long winter. I apologize in advance for the length of this.

I'll start out by saying that everyone who called me judgmental: you are absolutely correct. While I am not Jewish, H is (somewhere on the spectrum between Reform and Conservative). We had as close to a Jewish wedding as possible without me needing to convert, though if I had to identify with a religion, it would most likely be Reform Judaism. We will be raising any future children in the Jewish faith. That said, I don't like to associate with people who believe that a certain gender should be treated differently because of a biological imperative. I have never, nor do I ever plan on confronting anyone that holds these beliefs- they are consenting adults and it is their prerogative to believe what they want. No one's beliefs are "right" or "wrong", even if I don't agree with them. I do know that not associating with people because of their beliefs does make me a biggot. H is a better person for being able to disagree with someone's beliefs but still be friends with them.

The couple in question is only friends with H- I have never met them before. H is completing a post-graduate degree in another state, and has a lot of friends in Hillel (Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox) that I have never met, including rabbis. I will not know anyone at the wedding besides H.

The couple has actually discussed a lot of the wedding with H directly, which is how I know there will be split-gender dancing. I'm totally fine not dancing with H for one night seeing as we don't dance for the vast majority of the year anyway. Like I said in my OP, I decided I could suck it up for one night, which is why I agreed I would go with H. I love H and it would make him happy to attend, and that's more important than me stomping my foot about how I disagree with someone. Attending also meant I would be going with a smile on my face. I would never want to remotely ruin anyone's wedding by being the outwardly grumpy asshole in the corner.

As for the poor planning- the couple didn't realize that they needed to be apply for a marriage license, together, more than 3 days in advance in the state in question (despite H having this very conversation with them 6 months ago). They will not be seeing each other for the week before the wedding per their faith, and are not arriving in-state until a few days before. With their current plans, they cannot get a license in time to be married on their planned wedding day. So their solution is to have a quick civil ceremony performed where they are living now a week before their religious ceremony. They have since talked about what a joke the civil ceremony will be.

PrettyGirlLost · April 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'm confused about the out-of-state requirements they didn't research. Orthodox Jewish weddings are legally binding, so what out of state requirements are they missing? Something doesn't make sense here. That being said, given the very judgey tone of your post, I think you should change your RSVP to 'no' not because of the PPD (which it sounds like this sort of is and sort of isn't) but because you're being closed-minded, bigoted, and judegemental about their religion and their religious choices, which are NONE of your business. You don't have to like what their religion dictates, but you have to either go and accept it or stay home as a way or not accepting it. Snarking about it isn't cool.

Really?

I don't find the OP stating her opinion that she finds certain aspects of their religion to be offensive as her being anything that you are describing. And I don't think she was being snarky at all. She stated an opinion, that's it.

People are allowed to have opinions about other religions, and disagree with other religions, and can even share those opinions without being close minded or bigoted.

PrettyGirlLost · April 2014

LabLove86 said:

show previous quotes

moosette113 said:

How rude would it be to change an RSVP to “no” after already replying “yes”?

My H and I were invited to the Orthodox Jewish wedding of his two friends. I’ve always been hesitant about attending the wedding. I find the prospect of split gender dancing (stemming from the belief that men cannot touch women who are at certain points in their menstrual cycle) pretty offensive. On top of that, there is no real “reception” at Orthodox weddings- the party following the wedding ceremony is actually an event to specifically honor and entertain the newly married couple, not to receive guests. H said he wouldn't attend if I didn't, but he would definitely be sad if he wasn't there. I decided I could suck it up for one night, so he sent in the reply card indicating we would both be attending. I even hunted down a perfectly modest dress so I could be appropriately respectful of their beliefs.

We come to find out this week that the couple is having a quick civil ceremony at home before their “wedding” because they didn’t properly research the requirements for an out-of-state wedding. The bride said it in passing to H, but it didn’t seem like it was something they were going to be openly advertising.

So what would you do? I was never really thrilled with the idea of going to this “wedding”, but now that we found out that it’s going to be a PPD, H isn’t too excited about attending anymore. Not that it matters, but the couple does not actually see their civil ceremony as getting married (essentially, you’re not actually married in Judaism unless you have an actual Jewish ceremony- civil marriages are not recognized as binding). There’s no equivalent of a Convalidation in Judaism.

I don't think this is true - my cousins are about as Orthodox as you can get, and I've been to 3 of their weddings- and while yes the sexes are segregated everything else about the receptions are the same as a 'normal' wedding. We get delicious food, we have great conversation with our tables, and we DANCE. Let me tell you - the jewish community DANCES.

Other than that - I understand that you may think that their beliefs are offensive - but this is how they were raised. It is what they were taught to believe in and it is their custom. And the Orthodox community as a whole is generally accepting of this. Just because a group believes something different than you doesn't make it wrong. And they are not harming anyone by NOT touching women.

Also - it sounds like this is something that your SO would like to attend, and while it may not be top priority for you, it may be for him - that is what we do for our significant others - we put up with situations that are not our favorite because it is important to them. I am sure he has done things for you in the past that he didn't want to, and I am sure he will in the future.

So on one hand I want to tell you to go to support your H, and on the other I want to tell you not to because you clearly don't respect the religion. So I guess there is an upside to whatever it is that you choose to do.

She never said she thought any of their beliefs were wrong, she said she found them offensive. There's a difference.

And she's allowed to take offense. AND she can even take offense and yet still be tolerant and respectful of their religion- those things are not mutually exclusive.

Respect for people's beliefs is a two way street.

lightningsnow · April 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

show previous quotes

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'm confused about the out-of-state requirements they didn't research. Orthodox Jewish weddings are legally binding, so what out of state requirements are they missing? Something doesn't make sense here. That being said, given the very judgey tone of your post, I think you should change your RSVP to 'no' not because of the PPD (which it sounds like this sort of is and sort of isn't) but because you're being closed-minded, bigoted, and judegemental about their religion and their religious choices, which are NONE of your business. You don't have to like what their religion dictates, but you have to either go and accept it or stay home as a way or not accepting it. Snarking about it isn't cool.

Really?

I don't find the OP stating her opinion that she finds certain aspects of their religion to be offensive as her being anything that you are describing. And I don't think she was being snarky at all. She stated an opinion, that's it.

People are allowed to have opinions about other religions, and disagree with other religions, and can even share those opinions without being close minded or bigoted.

I agree with @PrettyGirlLost. HGF IMO you can be close minded about other's lack of a religion. Personally, I am happy I don't have a religion. However, I'll be damned if someone is going to sit there and tell me I have other, bigger problems in my life because I don't have a religion or some deity to pray to.

Maggie0829 · April 2014

I agree with @PrettyGirlLost as well. One can be offended by other's religion/beliefs but still be respectful of their religion/beliefs for the sake of the couple and any friendships that they may have. H and I have some friends who have beliefs that we find offensive but it is their choice to have their beliefs and I can respect their personal choice but that doesn't mean that it is wrong of me to find their thinking offensive.

phira · April 2014

I think that we need to make a distinction between, "I don't mind what you do, but I don't want to participate," and, "YOU'RE WRONG STOP IT."

I'm uncomfortable with a lot of Orthodox traditions and beliefs, which is one major reason I'm not Orthodox. I've chosen not to participate in Orthodox events because I don't want to be separated from a boyfriend. You can opt out without being judgy-mcjudgerpants.

That said, at this point, it really sounds like the OP committed to going, however unhappily, and is only changing her mind now because the couple will be legally wed ahead of time. Essentially, this whole question could have been boiled down to, "I RSVPed for a wedding I wasn't all that on board about going to for reasons, and now I just found out it'll be a PPD because they didn't research the license requirements properly. Is it rude to change my RSVP?"

In which case:

- if the RSVP deadline has passed, yes.

- if the RSVP deadling hasn't passed, no, but I recommend coming up with a good reason and coming up with plans so that you're actually busy.

- it's honestly really something that you need to decide with your partner.

PrettyGirlLost · April 2014

phira said:

I think that we need to make a distinction between, "I don't mind what you do, but I don't want to participate," and, "YOU'RE WRONG STOP IT."

I'm uncomfortable with a lot of Orthodox traditions and beliefs, which is one major reason I'm not Orthodox. I've chosen not to participate in Orthodox events because I don't want to be separated from a boyfriend. You can opt out without being judgy-mcjudgerpants.

That said, at this point, it really sounds like the OP committed to going, however unhappily, and is only changing her mind now because the couple will be legally wed ahead of time. Essentially, this whole question could have been boiled down to, "I RSVPed for a wedding I wasn't all that on board about going to for reasons, and now I just found out it'll be a PPD because they didn't research the license requirements properly. Is it rude to change my RSVP?"

In which case:

- if the RSVP deadline has passed, yes.
- if the RSVP deadling hasn't passed, no, but I recommend coming up with a good reason and coming up with plans so that you're actually busy.
- it's honestly really something that you need to decide with your partner.

@Phira is wise and well written :-)

moosette113 · April 2014

phira said:

I think that we need to make a distinction between, "I don't mind what you do, but I don't want to participate," and, "YOU'RE WRONG STOP IT."

I'm uncomfortable with a lot of Orthodox traditions and beliefs, which is one major reason I'm not Orthodox. I've chosen not to participate in Orthodox events because I don't want to be separated from a boyfriend. You can opt out without being judgy-mcjudgerpants.

That said, at this point, it really sounds like the OP committed to going, however unhappily, and is only changing her mind now because the couple will be legally wed ahead of time. Essentially, this whole question could have been boiled down to, "I RSVPed for a wedding I wasn't all that on board about going to for reasons, and now I just found out it'll be a PPD because they didn't research the license requirements properly. Is it rude to change my RSVP?"

In which case:

- if the RSVP deadline has passed, yes.
- if the RSVP deadling hasn't passed, no, but I recommend coming up with a good reason and coming up with plans so that you're actually busy.
- it's honestly really something that you need to decide with your partner.

Thanks, phira. In retrospect, including my previous hesitations to attending the wedding was unnecessary and it does ultimately boil down to, as you eloquently put it, the first bolded.

We did commit to attending, and although the RSVP date has not passed, H and I have decided that we will still attend and be happy for the couple, because despite my reservations about their feelings towards women and their poor planning, they are still incredibly nice people. I can be friendly without being their friends.

phira · April 2014

@moosette113 And honestly, one of the benefits to knowing that there will be sex-segregation is that you can go in with a plan. It really sucks when you walk into an event thinking you can spend the whole time with your SO, and then it's like ... oh hey just kidding.

Orthodox PPD

Re: Orthodox PPD

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