@lyndausvi I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Cash bars aren't new for us - our families have never been particularly wealthy and we pay for our own booze. If anything, we've upped our wedding spending by going to a fancy venue with onsite catering rather than going to a VFW and bringing in our own. For the record, some of the best events I've been to have been hosted this way - and they were amazing! Always with a cash bar, too, for what it's worth. This wasn't meant as an insult to VFW halls, they're just cheaper than your average wedding venue.
Some people's social circles prioritize booze. Ours have it available for those who partake but would rather have a delicious meal served to all (and guests would never be expected to pay for food, ever. That's not a wedding, that's a dinner out with friends)
Uh my extended family is far from wealthy. But they still managed to have receptions with no one having to open their wallets. Granted a lot were backyards, VFW lodges or church halls (our churches allow alcohol), so yeah.
I would much rather attend a wedding fully hosted at a VFW hall then at a fancy venue where I have to open my wallet. I've also had delicious full meals at VFWs, with great DJs or bands.
I've also been to my fair share of fancier venues where I didn't have to open my wallet either, with not so delicious food.
Fancy doesn't make food taste better and more then VFW make them taste not as delicious. You can find both at venues at any price point if you look hard enough.
Anyway, it is what it is. Different strokes for different folks.
What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests. Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated.
There is a wide range of options between 'open bar' and 'cash bar.'
We did a hosted bar of two kinds of beer, three kinds of wine, and champagne. (All other drinks (tea, coffee, soda) were also hosted, obvs.)
We couldn't have afforded a full open bar but would never have considered a cash bar.
Good for you?
We're personally only hosting wine and beer, but I know we'll have some people who will be a little disappointed that they can't buy liquor. Cash bars in some form or another are the norm in my circle, and people will be confused that they aren't able to buy any liquor. Unfortunately, my budget is too small anyway to even have it at a venue that allows anything other than beer and wine, much less actually bringing the liquor in.
All I'm saying is that we never prioritized alcohol in budgets. We'd rather have better food for all than have lower quality food and an open bar that few will actually utilize.
This whole thread is "faux pas" that don't bother us and I provided my reasoning for why cash bars don't bother me. Or anyone involved in planning my wedding.
the formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
The formal union of two people, only happens ONCE. (Unless you divorce and remarry that same person). It's your choice to wait until you can have/host the wedding you want, or to go for a quicker or easier route, like the courthouse. But once you are married, you're married. I'm sorry you don't like it, but I don't sugarcoat. I don't think it's rude to call do-overs Pretty Princess days, because that is what they are in most cases.
That being said, I don't have a problem with a later party or celebration, or vow renewal (if the timing is appropriate from when the marriage took place).Call it what it is. Don't lie, don't manipulate people, don't have bachelorette parties or bridal showers. You are already married. Carrying on like this is really a slap to the faces of couples who happily celebrated their union in the courthouse. You don't need a $20,000 day with flowers and a white gown and favors to be married. These are all extra fluff that you CHOOSE to have. People who marry in a courthouse with no large celebration later are just as married as anyone else.
FI and I have been together going on 7 years, and will be engaged 5 by the time our wedding rolls around. Sure, it has sucked to not share the last name as our son. Sure, I would have loved to get his health insurance and xyz marriage benefits. We waited until we could have the wedding we wanted. I understand sometimes people have reasons they have to sign the certificate on a different day, but I could probably rebut a lot as being convenience and not absolutely necessary.
Sorry to hijack on my thoughts of etiquette faux pas that apparently DO bother me. :-P
That said, I don't care about
- Printed address labels
- Dollar dances if cultural
- Cash bars. I would be disappointed because I don't take cash, but I wouldn't be angry or offended. Thankfully the only time I have encountered one at a wedding was when I was pregnant.
@angasaur this is one definition of marriage. I know plenty of SS couples who consider themselves married with out being recognized legally, polygomist that considered themselves married without being. Legally recognized and weddings/marriages have been occurring long before governments got involved. Yes, there is an important legal aspect to marriage, but there is more to it than that and if someone wants to have a celebration/wedding/event that is their choice and they don't need to be insulted and have a day that is important to them called a PPD.
Fwiw, I hate the argument that what domes else chooses to do in their marriage is a slap in the face or ruins the sanctity if other peoples marriage. That's just plains bullshit. What others do in their marriage in no way affects my marriage.gay marriage doesn't impact someone's else's religious marriage and PPD doesn't impact someone else's courthouse wedding.
You are right the 20.000 in extra fluff is un necessary, but it's just as un necessary for anyone whether they choose to have a PPD or not. Weddings in general have become extremely over the top and AWish, but people can still choose to have big over the top weddings and it doesn't make their day anymore or less valid. Some with a PPd. They can choose to do it small and later have a big event and it doesn't make their marriage any less valid or isn't an indicator of the strength and longevity of their marriage and it can still be an important meaningful event for them and their guests. If you don't agree don't go, they probably don't want that kind of negativity anyways
Partially hosted/cash bars (I don't really drink very often anyway), printed labels, e-vites, registry information on the invitations, and most other invitation faux pas, e-mail thank you cards, I don't mind gaps most of the time either but that depends on how long the gap is.
@lyndausvi they also commented because we were talking about weddings and changing etiquette expectations. It wasn't an out of the blue comment.
I get your parents are helping they do get a say. I forgot to mention that part above. I just find the emotion of 'offensive" when it comes to a open bar to be a little over the top. There is a lot of offensive behavior out there and providing for your guests is not one of them.
The thing with changing expectations is where will it end? Once you start charging guests for one thing someone will take it to the next level. Someone had to have the first cash bar right? We have already seen it happen here with people suggesting guests paying for water, sodas and food.
It might be years away, but I feel that with cash bars becoming acceptable we are going to see guests paying for other things to be acceptable also.
That makes me really sad.
If you come from a family where open bars are common historically, I can see where you might get that idea. But that isn't true everywhere - in the 1910s to 1930s, your family might have been hosting full weddings with open bars, but mine was busy making the change from being dirt-poor Eastern European farmers to being dirt-poor Canadian farmers. Weddings were cake, and people brought their own beer to celebrate with if they wanted it. Providing guests with alcohol has never been an expectation in my family, which is why I find it really hard to relate to where you're coming from.
I also disagree that this means suddenly people will start charging for food, as well. Liquor is and always has been a luxury, not a necessity. People still feel it's important to provide necessities for their guests - but they don't feel its necessary to provide a luxury. Cash bars just allow them to keep the option open for guests to choose.
Taking it to the next level has indeed begun. We have seen it on these threads multiple times. Asking guests to bring dishes to the reception is akin to asking them to pay for their meal. We have seen the threads where the bride talks about having a "casual" restaurant reception and expects their "guests" to pay for their meals. This change in expectation goes beyond etiquette and proper hosting. It speaks to the entitled mindset of many of these new brides. I can forgive the occasional etiquette breach, especially if I believe the couple were truly clueless. But when the rudeness is born from a self-absorbed and egocentric attitude, there is no excuse. And that is frightening.
I don't really care about a lot of the fashion etiquette. If you want to wear a tux before 6 PM I couldn't care less.
I don't think I'd mind a partial cash bar.
E-vites - if they are nice and not just a Facebook message. You can get some very nice e-vites these days and it saves money and paper. But of course, you would need to consider your guest list because not all people check their e-mail that often.
@angasaur this is one definition of marriage. I know plenty of SS couples who consider themselves married with out being recognized legally, polygomist that considered themselves married without being. Legally recognized and weddings/marriages have been occurring long before governments got involved. Yes, there is an important legal aspect to marriage, but there is more to it than that and if someone wants to have a celebration/wedding/event that is their choice and they don't need to be insulted and have a day that is important to them called a PPD.
Fwiw, I hate the argument that what domes else chooses to do in their marriage is a slap in the face or ruins the sanctity if other peoples marriage. That's just plains bullshit. What others do in their marriage in no way affects my marriage.gay marriage doesn't impact someone's else's religious marriage and PPD doesn't impact someone else's courthouse wedding.
You are right the 20.000 in extra fluff is un necessary, but it's just as un necessary for anyone whether they choose to have a PPD or not. Weddings in general have become extremely over the top and AWish, but people can still choose to have big over the top weddings and it doesn't make their day anymore or less valid. Some with a PPd. They can choose to do it small and later have a big event and it doesn't make their marriage any less valid or isn't an indicator of the strength and longevity of their marriage and it can still be an important meaningful event for them and their guests. If you don't agree don't go, they probably don't want that kind of negativity anyways
What becomes bullshit to me is when someone says they just did the paperwork. We just signed the papers. The important part is when we do it in front of family and friends. That is where the bullshit starts for me.
That piece of paper confers ALL of the rights inherent in marriage. Things like survivor benefits, things like insurance, etc. You can't get ANY of those things without that piece of paper if your partner is the holder of the benefit and their employer does not recognize domestic partnerships.
The only reasons I ever see when someone is talking about the "piece of paper" is insurance and benefits an employer bestowes on spouses. There is a reason a couple NEEDS that piece of paper and it means everything. It means health insurance, life insurance, being able to go to your wounded Soldier in Germany when he/she is seriously injured whether combat related or not. We send 3 FAMILY members. We don't send girlfriends or fiances (or at least we weren't when I retired 2 years ago) we send the people who have that piece of paper.
Couples don't do the "paperwork" for the heck of it while planning a PPD. They need benefits or the legal status of spouse for something. They aren't needing to pay taxes together, it is far greater than that.
That paperwork is coveted by many who are denied the right to marriage. To call it paperwork and or a formality is a huge kick in the face of civil rights.
Does gay marriage affect my marriage? DH and I are Christians and of course it does not affect us. I support the right of anyone to marry the person they love - I really don't care what restroom they use. 2 guys, 2 women - if you love each other and want to build a life together I pray you get the legal right to do that soon. Does biracial marriage affect my marriage? Do ANY other marriages affect my marriage? Of course not. Is it beyond stupid to say it is just paperwork and not really important? I think it is way beyond stupid (and greatly offensive) to say that.
FTR - I attended 4 PPD's and I KNEW they were married prior to the vow renewals because they all had the integrity to be honest about it.
@aussiecat42 If alcohol is a luxury and that's the justication for having guests pay for it, that absolutely opens the door for asking guests to pay for food.
That mindet justifies things like "we are paying for your chicken, but you can upgrade to lobster if you want to have the luxury" or "we provided the meal, but if you want an appetizer, dessert, wedding cake, etc you can pay for it since it's a luxury."
Also, food (meal) is not a necessity at a wedding. Cake and punch/apps receptions are perfectly lovely provided they aren't at a meal time. Having a wedding during a meal time is a luxury, does that mean it's ok to ask guests to chip in?
Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
@aussiecat42
If alcohol is a luxury and that's the justication for having guests pay for it, that absolutely opens the door for asking guests to pay for food.
That mindet justifies things like "we are paying for your chicken, but you can upgrade to lobster if you want to have the luxury" or "we provided the meal, but if you want an appetizer, dessert, wedding cake, etc you can pay for it since it's a luxury."
Also, food (meal) is not a necessity at a wedding. Cake and punch/apps receptions are perfectly lovely provided they aren't at a meal time. Having a wedding during a meal time is a luxury, does that mean it's ok to ask guests to chip in?
People still feel it's important to provide necessities for their guests - but they don't feel its necessary to provide a luxury. Cash bars just allow them to keep the option open for guests to choose.
OK, I think this is one of the big problems I have with the cash bar/hosted bar argument (aside from not forcing your guests to pay for your party) - that at a hosted event, guests don't get to choose what's offered. The hosts choose the options, the guests choose which one of those options they want to partake of. And, if they don't like any of the options, they can be thirsty or hungry. So long as the hosts offer a variety of appropriate options, any guest who throws a fit over what's not offered is in the wrong and rude.
We offer guests a choice of entrees, but we don't let them write in what they'd rather eat on the response card. And we don't say 'these entrees are hosted, but if you'd rather have something else, you can order from this menu and they'll send you the bill'. When you go to a restaurant, if you don't want anything on the menu, you don't tell the chef what to make you instead, right? Same goes at hosted events. If the couple hosts beer, wine, and non-alcoholic beverages, you don't get to demand they buy you a vodka tonic. And if you're upset enough that you can't get that vodka tonic that you'd leave over it, then, well, you have bigger problems than just one drink.
If your guests will leave or not show up if they can't get the exact drink they want, fine. Let them leave. If they prioritize a drink over celebrating your marriage, or if they cannot or will not celebrate without a drink of their choosing, then that's their decision. You don't have to pay for their decision. Again, as long as you're properly hosting a variety of refreshments (and alcohol is not a required refreshment in any way, shape, or form), no one else gets to tell you you're wrong for not providing exactly what they want. They can pick something or go without.
There are many things which bug others which I truly don't mind. Attire based things (so long as I'm not being told what to do as a guest) I give zero mind to - let people rock tuxes, watches, diamonds and whatever else they fancy to their heart's content.
A little more contentiously, I don't mind being invited solo if the person has never met FI. Case in point, last year one of the secretaries at school got married and very kindly invited a bunch of colleagues, of whom I was the only attached one. Had FI been invited he probably would not have enjoyed it, and as it was here in our hometown I was very happy to attend solo and party with several of my favourite co-workers. If it had been OOT I probably would have declined, but in this case it worked just fine. We spend a tonne of time together as a staff at work, so it was lovely to see a work friend so happy on her big day - it would have meant very little to FI.
Honeyfunds don't annoy me as such, they just make my inner bargain hunter sad - I'd rather give the whole sum of money to the couple.
- dress code on invitation ( I actually wish more people did this. While it's true that the invitation should dictate the formality of the wedding, a lot of people don't know that. So some brides could pick out an invitation with sunglasses and flip flops on it making people think the attire should be casual and hosted at the restaurant on the beach, when it's really a formal affair hosted in the second floor ballroom of that restaurant and not outside.)
- Second ceremonies whether the information is withheld from me or not.
ETA: I did not do any of these things for my wedding. Although, I must admit I did put information on what to wear on my wedding website since so many people kept asking what to wear to a destination wedding.
- dress code on invitation ( I actually wish people stated this. While it's true that the invitation should dictate the formality of the wedding, a lot of people don't know that. So some brides could pick out an invitation with sunglasses and flip flops on it making people think the attire should be casual and hosted at the restaurant on the beach, when it's really a formal affair hosted in the second floor ballroom of that restaurant and not outside.)
- Second ceremonies whether the information is withheld from me or not.
Technically the no stamp on RSVP card isn't an etiquette breach. If we want to get old school, having RSVP cards at all is rude as it suggests your guests don't know how to properly respond to an invite. I suppose I should add having RSVP cards (stamped or note) to my list of etiquette faux pas I don't care about.
Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
@angasaur this is one definition of marriage. I know plenty of SS couples who consider themselves married with out being recognized legally, polygomist that considered themselves married without being. Legally recognized and weddings/marriages have been occurring long before governments got involved. Yes, there is an important legal aspect to marriage, but there is more to it than that and if someone wants to have a celebration/wedding/event that is their choice and they don't need to be insulted and have a day that is important to them called a PPD.
Fwiw, I hate the argument that what domes else chooses to do in their marriage is a slap in the face or ruins the sanctity if other peoples marriage. That's just plains bullshit. What others do in their marriage in no way affects my marriage.gay marriage doesn't impact someone's else's religious marriage and PPD doesn't impact someone else's courthouse wedding.
You are right the 20.000 in extra fluff is un necessary, but it's just as un necessary for anyone whether they choose to have a PPD or not. Weddings in general have become extremely over the top and AWish, but people can still choose to have big over the top weddings and it doesn't make their day anymore or less valid. Some with a PPd. They can choose to do it small and later have a big event and it doesn't make their marriage any less valid or isn't an indicator of the strength and longevity of their marriage and it can still be an important meaningful event for them and their guests. If you don't agree don't go, they probably don't want that kind of negativity anyways
What becomes bullshit to me is when someone says they just did the paperwork. We just signed the papers. The important part is when we do it in front of family and friends. That is where the bullshit starts for me.
That piece of paper confers ALL of the rights inherent in marriage. Things like survivor benefits, things like insurance, etc. You can't get ANY of those things without that piece of paper if your partner is the holder of the benefit and their employer does not recognize domestic partnerships.
The only reasons I ever see when someone is talking about the "piece of paper" is insurance and benefits an employer bestowes on spouses. There is a reason a couple NEEDS that piece of paper and it means everything. It means health insurance, life insurance, being able to go to your wounded Soldier in Germany when he/she is seriously injured whether combat related or not. We send 3 FAMILY members. We don't send girlfriends or fiances (or at least we weren't when I retired 2 years ago) we send the people who have that piece of paper.
Couples don't do the "paperwork" for the heck of it while planning a PPD. They need benefits or the legal status of spouse for something. They aren't needing to pay taxes together, it is far greater than that.
That paperwork is coveted by many who are denied the right to marriage. To call it paperwork and or a formality is a huge kick in the face of civil rights.
Does gay marriage affect my marriage? DH and I are Christians and of course it does not affect us. I support the right of anyone to marry the person they love - I really don't care what restroom they use. 2 guys, 2 women - if you love each other and want to build a life together I pray you get the legal right to do that soon. Does biracial marriage affect my marriage? Do ANY other marriages affect my marriage? Of course not. Is it beyond stupid to say it is just paperwork and not really important? I think it is way beyond stupid (and greatly offensive) to say that.
FTR - I attended 4 PPD's and I KNEW they were married prior to the vow renewals because they all had the integrity to be honest about it.
I completely agree. I think many times when discussing the legal end of their Ppd they are very aware if how important to he paper work is, because that is why they choose to do it early, but they may not always choose their words wisely when discussing their ceremony by calling it their REAL wedding. The paper work is clearly important to them, important enough for them get it done right away for whatever reason. I just wish people would belittle the ceremony/ non legal aspect of it because someone else did something differently than them. Whether or not they agree with their reason for doing it a little out of order.
KeepMovingOn said:
HisGirlFriday13 said:
There is a wide range of options between 'open bar' and 'cash bar.'
We did a hosted bar of two kinds of beer, three kinds of wine, and champagne. (All other drinks (tea, coffee, soda) were also hosted, obvs.)
We couldn't have afforded a full open bar but would never have considered a cash bar.
Good for you? We're personally only hosting wine and beer, but I know we'll have some people who will be a little disappointed that they can't buy liquor. Cash bars in some form or another are the norm in my circle, and people will be confused that they aren't able to buy any liquor. Unfortunately, my budget is too small anyway to even have it at a venue that allows anything other than beer and wine, much less actually bringing the liquor in.
Then honestly, that's on them. It's rude to expect any certain kind of alcohol at an event. Do your friends come over to your house and fuss that you don't have top-shelf vodka for them? Are the disappointed that you only serve one kind of wine?
Guests have the right to expect to be hosted properly -- a full meal if the event is over a meal time, a chair to sit in, their SO being included -- but they don't get to dictate what that hosting looks like.
Instead of alcohol, think of it in terms of entrees. If you can afford chicken and beef tips as entrees, and they prefer filet mignon and salmon, would it be OK for them to say, 'Oh, hey, we were disappointed we couldn't upgrade to filet and salmon?'
No, it wouldn't be. As long as people don't have to open their wallets at your wedding, you're hosting them properly. If the meal or alcohol choice isn't to their liking, they should be well-bred enough not to say anything about it.
I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
There isn't an "out of proper order" for being married in this country (and many of our neighboring ones). It simply comes down to priorities. In his country the legal and spiritual/religious aspects can be done at the same time; there are hardly any true reasons to split them. If you need the insurance that marriage will award you then I would never tell you to wait. Get married at the courthouse or In a small wedding. But you do Forgo the fancy traditional wedding in this instance. A wedding can be thrown together in days. Hire a jop to come to your home or a park, anywhere. Invite your nearest and dearest. Have a nice dinner afterwards. Boom! If you really feel the need to have a big party later then have one! But skip the fake ceremony. The vows you say at the courthouse or however you chose to do it are just as valid and should be the most important. Why must you act them out to an audience to make them matter?
Even convalidations don't give you he right to a fancy redo wedding. True convalidations, or religious blessings, don't require the elements present in a traditional wedding. So in the end it boils down to couples feeling like they are entitled to a traditional wedding and the attention that will give them. Not a good look.
As far as cash bars, it's not open vs. cash. There's top shelf open, open, limited bar, and dry. Not being offended or bothered by cash bars is fine. No big deal. But trying to justify them is a bit much. There aren't any valid reasons to having a cash bar, only excuses.
After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!
There isn't an "out of proper order" for being married in this country (and many of our neighboring ones). It simply comes down to priorities. In his country the legal and spiritual/religious aspects can be done at the same time; there are hardly any true reasons to split them. If you need the insurance that marriage will award you then I would never tell you to wait. Get married at the courthouse or In a small wedding. But you do Forgo the fancy traditional wedding in this instance. A wedding can be thrown together in days. Hire a jop to come to your home or a park, anywhere. Invite your nearest and dearest. Have a nice dinner afterwards. Boom! If you really feel the need to have a big party later then have one! But skip the fake ceremony. The vows you say at the courthouse or however you chose to do it are just as valid and should be the most important. Why must you act them out to an audience to make them matter?
Even convalidations don't give you he right to a fancy redo wedding. True convalidations, or religious blessings, don't require the elements present in a traditional wedding. So in the end it boils down to couples feeling like they are entitled to a traditional wedding and the attention that will give them. Not a good look.
As far as cash bars, it's not open vs. cash. There's top shelf open, open, limited bar, and dry. Not being offended or bothered by cash bars is fine. No big deal. But trying to justify them is a bit much. There aren't any valid reasons to having a cash bar, only excuses.
This thread is about ettiquitte faux pas that don't bother you, so take it for what it is. Second, just because they can be done together doesn't mean they have to be. People can choose to do things differently than you with out it being a BFD. If they aren't lying and you think its dumb, don't go. Pretty sure no one will miss a crabby ass anyways. I think what bothers me is because you think its silly or meaningless, you are imposing those beliefs on others, who may feel like that day is very importnant to them and their guest. I have been to PPD and it was important to the couple, the family and their guests. We had a great time celebrating with them, her dad still cried when he gave her away again, we loved it. If someone was sitting in the back fuming becuase it was a "PPD" well thats on them because a majority of us had a damn good time celerating with someone we love and it meant the world to us. FWIW I am not having a PPD, I just don't feel liek its really an ettiquette issue, if you are honest to your guests and you have 10 PPD, you can choose to go or not go.
Things I don't care about that we ARE doing that are against etiquette:
1) One household, one invite (which means some 18 and 19 y/os are on parent's invite by name).
2) Tuxes before 6 (our wedding is at 5:30 and we have tuxes)
3) We put the wedding website in small print at the bottom of our invite vice on an insert.
Things I don't care about that we are NOT doing that are against etiquette:
1) Fast turn around B-listing. As long as you give plenty of time for RSVP.
2) Address Labels. We almost did these but then my fiance decided to write them all out himself! Win for me!
3) PPDs for logistics (like doing the paperwork right before or after a DW). If it's as close to the ceremony as practical, I don't have an issue with it. I also don't mind a party later after a courthouse ceremony. It just bugs me when you refer to your legal wife or husband as your finace.
I went to an awesome wedding where I found out later that they didn't sign the paperwork until a few days after in their hometown. At the time I could simply not fathom why anyone would care about this fact. Having been on here a while, I sort of see why someone might care but I totally do not. It was a semi-traditional (religious I think?) Indian wedding and it was really fun and those things seem so much more important than what date the papers were signed. It's not like they never intended to make it legal.
I went to an awesome wedding where I found out later that they didn't sign the paperwork until a few days after in their hometown. At the time I could simply not fathom why anyone would care about this fact. Having been on here a while, I sort of see why someone might care but I totally do not. It was a semi-traditional (religious I think?) Indian wedding and it was really fun and those things seem so much more important than what date the papers were signed. It's not like they never intended to make it legal.
I totally agree. And I think this is totally different than getting married for some random reason a year before the "wedding".
There isn't an "out of proper order" for being married in this country (and many of our neighboring ones). It simply comes down to priorities. In his country the legal and spiritual/religious aspects can be done at the same time; there are hardly any true reasons to split them. If you need the insurance that marriage will award you then I would never tell you to wait. Get married at the courthouse or In a small wedding. But you do Forgo the fancy traditional wedding in this instance. A wedding can be thrown together in days. Hire a jop to come to your home or a park, anywhere. Invite your nearest and dearest. Have a nice dinner afterwards. Boom! If you really feel the need to have a big party later then have one! But skip the fake ceremony. The vows you say at the courthouse or however you chose to do it are just as valid and should be the most important. Why must you act them out to an audience to make them matter?
Even convalidations don't give you he right to a fancy redo wedding. True convalidations, or religious blessings, don't require the elements present in a traditional wedding. So in the end it boils down to couples feeling like they are entitled to a traditional wedding and the attention that will give them. Not a good look.
As far as cash bars, it's not open vs. cash. There's top shelf open, open, limited bar, and dry. Not being offended or bothered by cash bars is fine. No big deal. But trying to justify them is a bit much. There aren't any valid reasons to having a cash bar, only excuses.
This thread is about ettiquitte faux pas that don't bother you, so take it for what it is. Second, just because they can be done together doesn't mean they have to be. People can choose to do things differently than you with out it being a BFD. If they aren't lying and you think its dumb, don't go. Pretty sure no one will miss a crabby ass anyways. I think what bothers me is because you think its silly or meaningless, you are imposing those beliefs on others, who may feel like that day is very importnant to them and their guest. I have been to PPD and it was important to the couple, the family and their guests. We had a great time celebrating with them, her dad still cried when he gave her away again, we loved it. If someone was sitting in the back fuming becuase it was a "PPD" well thats on them because a majority of us had a damn good time celerating with someone we love and it meant the world to us. FWIW I am not having a PPD, I just don't feel liek its really an ettiquette issue, if you are honest to your guests and you have 10 PPD, you can choose to go or not go.
I never said either aspect was meaningless. I said there's no need to split them. Both are meaningful but can be done at the exact same time. If getting married quickly is that important than I'm all for having your marriage blessed later on. But don't call it a wedding. If no lying is involved I'd most likely be happy to celebrate for the couple but would roll my eyes if the words wedding or bride/groom were used. Other than that I wouldn't care if they wanted to have a do over, even though I don't personally agree with it. But to not consider oneself married simply because vows weren't said in front of guests in a particular venue isn't right. That IS insulting to those who chose a courthouse wedding and those who don't have that right yet. If you choose to legally get married then you are married, period. This isn't France where you can't have a religious ceremony until the legal ceremony is done. I'm also a firm believer that if your faith is THAT important to you you would make it work so you were married the way your faith deems proper or be willing to work with your priest/minister/rabbi/whoever to have your marriage blessed. To turn that sacred moment into a show simply because you "deserve it" and "aren't really married" screams entitlement. Many feel they deserve all the bells and whistles and well, sometimes that's just not possible. Throw a kick ass party and celebrate the fact that you were able to marry the love of your life! Isn't that what it's supposed to be about anyways?
After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!
I find it interesting how many of us aren't bothered by cash bars ( I always find the need to point out that I don't think it's acceptable to charge for soft drinks - ever).
I enjoy hearing that people can still uphold etiquette, regardless of whether they are personally bothered by the faux pas or not!!
@Lyndausvi - in all honesty, some members of my family are very against open bar. My grandmother actually had the audacity to waggle a finger at me during a dinner I took her to for her birthday last year and say "don't you DARE have an open bar!!!!". The majority of her family is against alcohol on principle. I told her it wasn't a topic she needed to worry about and that there would be plenty of diet coke for her...bean dip...bean dip...
You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you
marry a Muppet Overlord.
I find it interesting how many of us aren't bothered by cash bars ( I always find the need to point out that I don't think it's acceptable to charge for soft drinks - ever).
I enjoy hearing that people can still uphold etiquette, regardless of whether they are personally bothered by the faux pas or not!!
@Lyndausvi - in all honesty, some members of my family are very against open bar. My grandmother actually had the audacity to waggle a finger at me during a dinner I took her to for her birthday last year and say "don't you DARE have an open bar!!!!". The majority of her family is against alcohol on principle. I told her it wasn't a topic she needed to worry about and that there would be plenty of diet coke for her...bean dip...bean dip...
I can understand being against them because you are against alcohol. I just didn't understand a guest being against a host wanting one because the guest thinks they are too expensive.
What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests. Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated.
Re: etiquette faux pas that don't bother you
This whole thread is "faux pas" that don't bother us and I provided my reasoning for why cash bars don't bother me. Or anyone involved in planning my wedding.
Fwiw, I hate the argument that what domes else chooses to do in their marriage is a slap in the face or ruins the sanctity if other peoples marriage. That's just plains bullshit. What others do in their marriage in no way affects my marriage.gay marriage doesn't impact someone's else's religious marriage and PPD doesn't impact someone else's courthouse wedding.
You are right the 20.000 in extra fluff is un necessary, but it's just as un necessary for anyone whether they choose to have a PPD or not. Weddings in general have become extremely over the top and AWish, but people can still choose to have big over the top weddings and it doesn't make their day anymore or less valid. Some with a PPd. They can choose to do it small and later have a big event and it doesn't make their marriage any less valid or isn't an indicator of the strength and longevity of their marriage and it can still be an important meaningful event for them and their guests. If you don't agree don't go, they probably don't want that kind of negativity anyways
I don't think I'd mind a partial cash bar.
E-vites - if they are nice and not just a Facebook message. You can get some very nice e-vites these days and it saves money and paper. But of course, you would need to consider your guest list because not all people check their e-mail that often.
If alcohol is a luxury and that's the justication for having guests pay for it, that absolutely opens the door for asking guests to pay for food.
That mindet justifies things like "we are paying for your chicken, but you can upgrade to lobster if you want to have the luxury" or "we provided the meal, but if you want an appetizer, dessert, wedding cake, etc you can pay for it since it's a luxury."
Also, food (meal) is not a necessity at a wedding. Cake and punch/apps receptions are perfectly lovely provided they aren't at a meal time. Having a wedding during a meal time is a luxury, does that mean it's ok to ask guests to chip in?
We offer guests a choice of entrees, but we don't let them write in what they'd rather eat on the response card. And we don't say 'these entrees are hosted, but if you'd rather have something else, you can order from this menu and they'll send you the bill'. When you go to a restaurant, if you don't want anything on the menu, you don't tell the chef what to make you instead, right? Same goes at hosted events. If the couple hosts beer, wine, and non-alcoholic beverages, you don't get to demand they buy you a vodka tonic. And if you're upset enough that you can't get that vodka tonic that you'd leave over it, then, well, you have bigger problems than just one drink.
If your guests will leave or not show up if they can't get the exact drink they want, fine. Let them leave. If they prioritize a drink over celebrating your marriage, or if they cannot or will not celebrate without a drink of their choosing, then that's their decision. You don't have to pay for their decision. Again, as long as you're properly hosting a variety of refreshments (and alcohol is not a required refreshment in any way, shape, or form), no one else gets to tell you you're wrong for not providing exactly what they want. They can pick something or go without.
I completely agree. I think many times when discussing the legal end of their Ppd they are very aware if how important to he paper work is, because that is why they choose to do it early, but they may not always choose their words wisely when discussing their ceremony by calling it their REAL wedding. The paper work is clearly important to them, important enough for them get it done right away for whatever reason. I just wish people would belittle the ceremony/ non legal aspect of it because someone else did something differently than them. Whether or not they agree with their reason for doing it a little out of order.
We're personally only hosting wine and beer, but I know we'll have some people who will be a little disappointed that they can't buy liquor. Cash bars in some form or another are the norm in my circle, and people will be confused that they aren't able to buy any liquor. Unfortunately, my budget is too small anyway to even have it at a venue that allows anything other than beer and wine, much less actually bringing the liquor in. Then honestly, that's on them. It's rude to expect any certain kind of alcohol at an event. Do your friends come over to your house and fuss that you don't have top-shelf vodka for them? Are the disappointed that you only serve one kind of wine?
Even convalidations don't give you he right to a fancy redo wedding. True convalidations, or religious blessings, don't require the elements present in a traditional wedding. So in the end it boils down to couples feeling like they are entitled to a traditional wedding and the attention that will give them. Not a good look.
As far as cash bars, it's not open vs. cash. There's top shelf open, open, limited bar, and dry. Not being offended or bothered by cash bars is fine. No big deal. But trying to justify them is a bit much. There aren't any valid reasons to having a cash bar, only excuses.
After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!
This thread is about ettiquitte faux pas that don't bother you, so take it for what it is. Second, just because they can be done together doesn't mean they have to be. People can choose to do things differently than you with out it being a BFD. If they aren't lying and you think its dumb, don't go. Pretty sure no one will miss a crabby ass anyways. I think what bothers me is because you think its silly or meaningless, you are imposing those beliefs on others, who may feel like that day is very importnant to them and their guest. I have been to PPD and it was important to the couple, the family and their guests. We had a great time celebrating with them, her dad still cried when he gave her away again, we loved it. If someone was sitting in the back fuming becuase it was a "PPD" well thats on them because a majority of us had a damn good time celerating with someone we love and it meant the world to us. FWIW I am not having a PPD, I just don't feel liek its really an ettiquette issue, if you are honest to your guests and you have 10 PPD, you can choose to go or not go.
Things I don't care about that we ARE doing that are against etiquette:
1) One household, one invite (which means some 18 and 19 y/os are on parent's invite by name).
2) Tuxes before 6 (our wedding is at 5:30 and we have tuxes)
3) We put the wedding website in small print at the bottom of our invite vice on an insert.
Things I don't care about that we are NOT doing that are against etiquette:
1) Fast turn around B-listing. As long as you give plenty of time for RSVP.
2) Address Labels. We almost did these but then my fiance decided to write them all out himself! Win for me!
3) PPDs for logistics (like doing the paperwork right before or after a DW). If it's as close to the ceremony as practical, I don't have an issue with it. I also don't mind a party later after a courthouse ceremony. It just bugs me when you refer to your legal wife or husband as your finace.
There are several things that don't bother me.
PPDs as long as it is known that the couple is already married.
Address labels
Cash bars as long as the non alcoholic drinks are hosted i.e. soda, tea, water etc.
Attire faux pas i.e. the tux thing before a certain time, watches, stuff like that
Anything the couple wants that doesn't effect the guests being hosted correctly.
*Formerly ctexasgurl26 and mrsridings061513*
Baby William born June 11, 2014 Weighing 6 lbs 5 oz and 17.5 inches long
I never said either aspect was meaningless. I said there's no need to split them. Both are meaningful but can be done at the exact same time. If getting married quickly is that important than I'm all for having your marriage blessed later on. But don't call it a wedding. If no lying is involved I'd most likely be happy to celebrate for the couple but would roll my eyes if the words wedding or bride/groom were used. Other than that I wouldn't care if they wanted to have a do over, even though I don't personally agree with it. But to not consider oneself married simply because vows weren't said in front of guests in a particular venue isn't right. That IS insulting to those who chose a courthouse wedding and those who don't have that right yet. If you choose to legally get married then you are married, period. This isn't France where you can't have a religious ceremony until the legal ceremony is done. I'm also a firm believer that if your faith is THAT important to you you would make it work so you were married the way your faith deems proper or be willing to work with your priest/minister/rabbi/whoever to have your marriage blessed. To turn that sacred moment into a show simply because you "deserve it" and "aren't really married" screams entitlement. Many feel they deserve all the bells and whistles and well, sometimes that's just not possible. Throw a kick ass party and celebrate the fact that you were able to marry the love of your life! Isn't that what it's supposed to be about anyways?
After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!
I enjoy hearing that people can still uphold etiquette, regardless of whether they are personally bothered by the faux pas or not!!
@Lyndausvi - in all honesty, some members of my family are very against open bar. My grandmother actually had the audacity to waggle a finger at me during a dinner I took her to for her birthday last year and say "don't you DARE have an open bar!!!!". The majority of her family is against alcohol on principle. I told her it wasn't a topic she needed to worry about and that there would be plenty of diet coke for her...bean dip...bean dip...
You'll never be subject to a cash bar, gap, potluck wedding, or b-list if you marry a Muppet Overlord.