NWR - I need unbiased opinions.

climbingsingle · May 2014

Hi ladies! I'm back from my sailing trip in one piece!

As some of you may remember, we had an intervention for my brother and his FI back in January. Things were going really well since then. They both were sober. The lying and excuses stopped. They were present on and time for all family functions. They both looked healthy and put together, as did their kid.

I was supposed to watch their kid (FSIL's from a previous marriage) on Sunday. FSIL was two hours late in dropping her off (they live literally 5 minutes away). FSIL brought a friend with her. I've met this girl before. She's a "club promoter" and I know that she drinks and does drugs. I was actually really shocked to see this friend. I didn't know that FSIL was still friends with her. As far as I knew, they had only hung out a few times and when they did, drinking/using was involved.

FSIL honestly looked hungover when she got to my house. She told me she was sick. So why did she have a friend with her if she wasn't feeling well? I then found out that they didn't have the kid Saturday night. So they had to whole night free.

When I texted FSIL at dinner time to drop her kid off, she didn't get reply. I called her phone and my brother answered, saying FSIL was sleeping. At 6:30 on Sunday night. My brother told me to call him and he'd meet me outside. I got the impression that he didn't want me coming inside his house.

Is it just me or does these not seem like the actions of sober people? I really hope I'm overreacting. I just have the worst feeling and honestly, my intuitions in the past have been right.

AprilH81 · May 2014

I don't remember the back story, but newly sober people shouldn't be hanging out with club promoters. That is just asking for trouble.

I would be suspicious but maybe give them the benefit of doubt this once. Again, I don't remember the back story so they may not have any "trust" left in you...

theartistformerlyknownas · May 2014

My FI comes from a family of addicts, and he helped my mom and stepdad deal with some issues with my stepbrother. Basically... interventions, rehab, arrests, etc don't work if the person doesn't want to fundamentally and independently change. They need to make the decision to stay sober themselves, every single day. They need constant reassurance and support from other people on the same road (AA or NA). It does sound like she's drinking again, but it doesn't sound like you'll be able to stop her. She needs that moment of clarity on her own.

If you think the kid is in danger, you should call CPS. If your brother is still sober, you could talk to him about how harmful it will be for him to stay around her while she's drinking/using, and how he needs to protect himself and his future first and foremost. But you can't just talk an addict out of their addiction.

KytchynWitche · May 2014

I would also be suspicious. That definitely doesn't sound like guilt-free, clean and sober behavior to me...

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

My gut would also say that something is going on that they don't want you to know about. I'd try to meet with your brother and see if you can talk to him.

But I think your suspicions are correct that something is going on.

climbingsingle · May 2014

Thanks guys. Unfortunately I've been through this with my brother a few times. He's been an addict (sober on and off) for a while. My dad is also a recovering alcoholic (he's been sober for 28 years). I know there's not much I can do, short of calling CPS. I'm not prepared to do that just yet. I really, really wish I was wrong. But I don't think I am.

HaileyDancingbear · May 2014

Given that there is a child involved, I don't think you should label your concern as overreacting. The child's safety is top priority.

I am very firm in my beleif that unless people come to you for help, and they're actually prepared to accept your help and change, they should be left to deal with their own lives and sort out their own shit. Forced help, as good as your intentions are, rarely actually helps. But when you throw a child into the mix that goes out the window. Fuck up your own life, don't you dare fuck up the life of an innocent child who had no hand whatsoever in your decisions.

If you feel the child is ever in danger do what you must. Talk to your brother, and depending on the conversation and your gut either feel reassured that everything is fine, or tell him you will not hesitate to have their child removed from a harmful situation. If he and FSIL don't want to get clean, it's on them. But their kid does not deserve to suffer from that course of action.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

HaileyDancingbear said:

Given that there is a child involved, I don't think you should label your concern as overreacting. The child's safety is top priority.

I am very firm in my beleif that unless people come to you for help, and they're actually prepared to accept your help and change, they should be left to deal with their own lives and sort out their own shit. Forced help, as good as your intentions are, rarely actually helps. But when you throw a child into the mix that goes out the window. Fuck up your own life, don't you dare fuck up the life of an innocent child who had no hand whatsoever in your decisions.

If you feel the child is ever in danger do what you must. Talk to your brother, and depending on the conversation and your gut either feel reassured that everything is fine, or tell him you will not hesitate to have their child removed from a harmful situation. If he and FSIL don't want to get clean, it's on them. But their kid does not deserve to suffer from that course of action.

Everything she said, especially the bold. Also, I have addicts on my dad's side. He has the firm belief that people need to hit rock bottom before they change and that we need to stop being enablers. That means (to him) that if they can't get in the house because they are too drunk to work the lock, then they sleep outside on the porch. We need to stop helping with little things and we had to get the whole family on board. It was tough, but somewhat successful with some people. My aunt is still drinking and an alcoholic, but doesn't want to change. Her life choices have led my dad to believe that some people's rock bottom is death, or below death. They will die before they hit bottom enough to quit drinking. And she is drinking herself to death.

climbingsingle · May 2014

Even though my dad is an alcoholic, he still enables my brother. It's infuriating. But again, there's not much I can do.

FI thinks that FSIL wants to be "caught". That's why she came over looking like she did with that trash bag in tow.

afox007 · May 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Even though my dad is an alcoholic, he still enables my brother. It's infuriating. But again, there's not much I can do.

FI thinks that FSIL wants to be "caught". That's why she came over looking like she did with that trash bag in tow.

Stuck in the dam box!

I agree with your FI that she may want to be caught. A lot of addicts know that they become the center off attention whether as a coping mechanism or a way to manipulate. FSS's biomom makes sure everyone sees how fucked up she is because she knows that then all eyes are on her and she usually gets what she wants. FI and I had to stop enabling her and get her family on the same page; she hasn't hit rock bottom yet, but she has definitely stopped advertising the problem.

How old is the child and do FSIL and your brother have full custody? If you think that her problem is a danger to her child you should intervene in some way, start by talking to your brother and possibly biodad if he is in a better place than her. If these aren't options and you think the child is in danger call CPS.

climbingsingle · May 2014

The kid is turning 6 next month. She's in kindergarten.

They have full custody. They were actually investigated by CPS already (FSIL now-estranged mom called and reported them in January) and cleared.

tortoisebride · May 2014

Call CPS again. It sounds like things have changed.

grumbledore · May 2014

I would call CPS if you think the home is not safe - and the fact that you were not allowed inside the home speaks volumes. If it was just because FSIL was sick, imo your brother would have been less weird about it.

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, and unfortunately in this case, that means use and abuse of alcohol and drugs.

The biggest problem with parents like this is that they allow other fucked up people into the home - they don't have good judgment about the people they allow access to their children, and that means literally anything bad can happen to that child.

climbingsingle · May 2014

grumbledore said:

I would call CPS if you think the home is not safe - and the fact that you were not allowed inside the home speaks volumes. If it was just because FSIL was sick, imo your brother would have been less weird about it.

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, and unfortunately in this case, that means use and abuse of alcohol and drugs.

The biggest problem with parents like this is that they allow other fucked up people into the home - they don't have good judgment about the people they allow access to their children, and that means literally anything bad can happen to that child.

That's very true. You make some very valid points.

grumbledore · May 2014

I know it's heartbreaking to even have to think about calling CPS on a family member, but that kid is totally helpless. Hopefully his parents are just being benignly neglectful, but the fact that his mother is hanging out with some shady characters leads me to be very concerned about who they might be bringing into the home.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

DH's grandmother frequently says, 'I sometimes thought about calling child services on bio-mom.' I asked her once, point-blank, why she didn't.

She said, 'Well, if I had, Son would have lost custody, too, and it wasn't his fault. It was all her. He was just caught up in it and didn't know how to stop it.'

So she loved her son enough to protect him from the law but didn't love her grandchildren enough to protect them from the physical, emotional, verbal, and (in BIL's case) sexual abuse at the hands of their mother.

(And she wonders why DH is the only one of her grandkids who speaks to her, and why none of her son's children have a relationship with their parents?)

I had a pretty low opinion of the woman before this, and that cemented my belief that she is a terrible human being.

Please -- if you think something is happening, speak up on behalf of that child.

smalfrie19 · May 2014

Please, please call CPS. Having been a child of an abusive home, I can say I probably wouldn't be here if someone hadn't. Please do not hesitate..Please. I beg you.

climbingsingle · May 2014

Gah! I'm so conflicted. What if she really was sick and I'm blowing this out of proportion? I don't have concrete proof that they were drinking. And I do know for a fact that as of last week, they were sober.

smalfrie19 · May 2014

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Gah! I'm so conflicted. What if she really was sick and I'm blowing this out of proportion? I don't have concrete proof that they were drinking. And I do know for a fact that as of last week, they were sober.

If nothing is amiss then CPS will clear them. Please call.

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