Vendors refusing service

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

We are attempting to book a photographer. Whenever we find someone we like we ask to negotiate a contract. They always come back to us saying that they cannot met the needs of our services. The thing is all we are asking to include are a few prints, having them view the venue for a hour before the wedding and the copyrights to the photos. I am actually surprised that they won't even met us in the middle. My parents are paying for the wedding and have told us to ask the vendors these questions even though I am ok with the packages they are offering. To me it shows that the vendors are not savy business people if they out-right deny a service. I'm just trying to figure out what to do because I am getting very frustrated.

Futuremrsds2015 · May 2014

I'm not sure where you are located (I know they will travel) but try www.ucs-studio.com. I'm sure they will work with you.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:
We are attempting to book a photographer. Whenever we find someone we like we ask to negotiate a contract. They always come back to us saying that they cannot met the needs of our services. The thing is all we are asking to include are a few prints, having them view the venue for a hour before the wedding and the copyrights to the photos. I am actually surprised that they won't even met us in the middle. My parents are paying for the wedding and have told us to ask the vendors these questions even though I am ok with the packages they are offering. To me it shows that the vendors are not savy business people if they out-right deny a service. I'm just trying to figure out what to do because I am getting very frustrated.

Negotiation is all part of the process, but if you're asking them to give up the copyrights (and thus the revenue from prints), you're going to probably have to pay more.

I don't know why they have to view the venue, nor do I understand why you need them to include prints if you're getting the rights to all the photos.

None of what you're asking is inherently unreasonable, but all together, you're asking for a lot, so you're going to have to decide which of those you're willing to give up.

twitterbird · May 2014

None of that seems too unreasonable to me. We're getting a photo book, full rights and 8 hours of coverage with the package I have. The photographer has been great customizing his packages as well. The most important thing for my photographer was full rights. He wasn't concerned about prints as we could get those on our own afterwards.

mrsmorales2be · May 2014

So...I guess you keep asking other photographers until you find someone that can work with your requirements, or you rethink the terms you're trying to negotiate and find a middle ground that everyone can live with.

sarahonlife · May 2014

Maybe it's not the terms, and they're just already booked on your date.

vsgal · May 2014

To you, these additional things may be small. To a photographer, they may be a big deal. Maybe it is how you are asking them. Are you demanding or suggesting?

In the end, if photographers in your area are not willing to do the extra services for a price both parties agree on, you will have to bend on some of your requirements. To me, you are not asking for anything truly over the top. In reality, we asked for more things from our photographer and got them. We got our photographer for 8 hours and his assistant for 6. We got 2 8X10 and 1 11X14 print, we got 100 printed proofs to make into wedding photo books and we got an album. And we had rights to the photos, but so did our photographer. He could use them for advertising as he wished. Maybe that is what the dealbreaker is. Are you not offering the photographer any rights to use the photos as he sees fit?

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

vsgal said:

To you, these additional things may be small. To a photographer, they may be a big deal. Maybe it is how you are asking them. Are you demanding or suggesting?

In the end, if photographers in your area are not willing to do the extra services for a price both parties agree on, you will have to bend on some of your requirements. To me, you are not asking for anything truly over the top. In reality, we asked for more things from our photographer and got them. We got our photographer for 8 hours and his assistant for 6. We got 2 8X10 and 1 11X14 print, we got 100 printed proofs to make into wedding photo books and we got an album. And we had rights to the photos, but so did our photographer. He could use them for advertising as he wished. Maybe that is what the dealbreaker is. Are you not offering the photographer any rights to use the photos as he sees fit?

No we are just asking for the copyrights. Which most places give you now. I thought that it was ok to ask for more in a package than they were offering. Especially since all of the pacakges include 2 photographers, full day and a USB and nothing else!

chibiyui · May 2014

Do you want the copyright, or the printing release? Cause those are two, very, very different things.

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

chibiyui said:

Do you want the copyright, or the printing release? Cause those are two, very, very different things.

Actually it is just the printing release.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:

vsgal said:

To you, these additional things may be small. To a photographer, they may be a big deal. Maybe it is how you are asking them. Are you demanding or suggesting?

In the end, if photographers in your area are not willing to do the extra services for a price both parties agree on, you will have to bend on some of your requirements. To me, you are not asking for anything truly over the top. In reality, we asked for more things from our photographer and got them. We got our photographer for 8 hours and his assistant for 6. We got 2 8X10 and 1 11X14 print, we got 100 printed proofs to make into wedding photo books and we got an album. And we had rights to the photos, but so did our photographer. He could use them for advertising as he wished. Maybe that is what the dealbreaker is. Are you not offering the photographer any rights to use the photos as he sees fit?

No we are just asking for the copyrights. Which most places give you now. I thought that it was ok to ask for more in a package than they were offering. Especially since all of the pacakges include 2 photographers, full day and a USB and nothing else!

It's always OK to try to negotiate, but if you're asking and repeatedly getting shot down either (1) You're asking badly/rudely/off-puttingly or (2) you're asking for too much.

Quite frankly, if you're getting two photographers, for the full day, and a USB drive with all the photos and the printing rights, what else do you need? You can print them yourself at Target or Shutterfly or Picaboo or wherever.

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

bananasplit472001 said:

vsgal said:

To you, these additional things may be small. To a photographer, they may be a big deal. Maybe it is how you are asking them. Are you demanding or suggesting?

In the end, if photographers in your area are not willing to do the extra services for a price both parties agree on, you will have to bend on some of your requirements. To me, you are not asking for anything truly over the top. In reality, we asked for more things from our photographer and got them. We got our photographer for 8 hours and his assistant for 6. We got 2 8X10 and 1 11X14 print, we got 100 printed proofs to make into wedding photo books and we got an album. And we had rights to the photos, but so did our photographer. He could use them for advertising as he wished. Maybe that is what the dealbreaker is. Are you not offering the photographer any rights to use the photos as he sees fit?

No we are just asking for the copyrights. Which most places give you now. I thought that it was ok to ask for more in a package than they were offering. Especially since all of the pacakges include 2 photographers, full day and a USB and nothing else!

It's always OK to try to negotiate, but if you're asking and repeatedly getting shot down either (1) You're asking badly/rudely/off-puttingly or (2) you're asking for too much.

Quite frankly, if you're getting two photographers, for the full day, and a USB drive with all the photos and the printing rights, what else do you need? You can print them yourself at Target or Shutterfly or Picaboo or wherever.

I don't think we need anything else. My parents are asking the questions to the photographers that we wanted to book. They seem to think everything is negotiable and I just don't feel that way. I really just wanted to pay the price they ask and sign the contract. I mean it's just photos for one day. I have been looking since February and am really stressed out.

wrigleyville · May 2014

Maybe your parents don't understand how easy it is to print from a USB. It's actually much cheaper than ordering prints from your photographer (in most cases). Our photographer mailed a CD to us about three weeks after our wedding, and we didn't have a print package (because it isn't necessary).

Plus, I love being able to run off extra photos for relatives when they ask for some.

Inkdancer · May 2014

wrigleyville said:

Maybe your parents don't understand how easy it is to print from a USB. It's actually much cheaper than ordering prints from your photographer (in most cases). Our photographer mailed a CD to us about three weeks after our wedding, and we didn't have a print package (because it isn't necessary).

Plus, I love being able to run off extra photos for relatives when they ask for some.

This. You can use Shutterfly (free) to print off photos at your local Walgreens for about 89 cents.

tammym1001 · May 2014

Most of the photographers that we spoke to didn't even bother putting print prices out anymore because it's so easy to just get the pictures printed somewhere else. Maybe you could explain to your parents that the prints aren't necessary.

For the hour at the venue before, are you asking them to give you an extra hour of their time or are you just asking them to come early? For example, you have 8 hours, the wedding starts at 4, but you want them there at 3 so they would work 3-11 instead of 4-12. If you're asking them for an extra hour free I could see why they wouldn't want to do that.

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

tammym1001 said:

Most of the photographers that we spoke to didn't even bother putting print prices out anymore because it's so easy to just get the pictures printed somewhere else. Maybe you could explain to your parents that the prints aren't necessary.

For the hour at the venue before, are you asking them to give you an extra hour of their time or are you just asking them to come early? For example, you have 8 hours, the wedding starts at 4, but you want them there at 3 so they would work 3-11 instead of 4-12. If you're asking them for an extra hour free I could see why they wouldn't want to do that.

No, we are not asking them for any extra time as we are only considering photographers who have full day packages. We need 11 hours of time.

Maggie0829 · May 2014

I think maybe you need to look into photographers yourself and pay for it yourself. Your parents are being very difficult and it is now causing you stress that you don't need.

Or you need to talk to your parents and explain that there is zero need for them to do a walk through and hour before your wedding and that you can print off your own pictures.

phira · May 2014

Agree with previous posters. Vendors have the right to refuse your demands if they can't or don't want to meet them. So I'd either relax your requirements, or be ready to pay more.

Rebl90 · May 2014

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

Rebl90 said:

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

No where did it say that they had to be an hour early just to look at the site. We are asking if photographers had shot at our locations before. If they had not been to the locations we asked if they would be able to come with us to look at the location ahead of the wedding like months before. Which we would pay them for.

Maggie0829 · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:

Rebl90 said:

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

No where did it say that they had to be an hour early just to look at the site. We are asking if photographers had shot at our locations before. If they had not been to the locations we asked if they would be able to come with us to look at the location ahead of the wedding like months before. Which we would pay them for.

They do not need to do this. Our photographer never shot a wedding at our location but managed just fine the day of. These people are professionals and do not need to do a walk through with the couple before hand. They are more then capable of researching your venue on their own (which they will most likely do) and make a note of where would be the best places to take pictures.

You are hiring professionals and you need to trust their abilities and not micromanage them.

KGold80 · May 2014

Maggie0829 said:

bananasplit472001 said:

Rebl90 said:

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

No where did it say that they had to be an hour early just to look at the site. We are asking if photographers had shot at our locations before. If they had not been to the locations we asked if they would be able to come with us to look at the location ahead of the wedding like months before. Which we would pay them for.

They do not need to do this. Our photographer never shot a wedding at our location but managed just fine the day of. These people are professionals and do not need to do a walk through with the couple before hand. They are more then capable of researching your venue on their own (which they will most likely do) and make a note of where would be the best places to take pictures.

You are hiring professionals and you need to trust their abilities and not micromanage them.

This. I'm sure you're not meaning to, but asking this of your photographers comes across as VERY Bridezilla-ish.

Furthermore, the copyright thing is likely a huge issue. If you're phrasing it that way instead of asking for reprint rights, that could be a major part of your problem booking a photographer. Photographers or other artists typically do not want to give up the rights to their work.

tortoisebride · May 2014

I asked for the copyrights too and was quickly set straight. My photographer said that those belong to the photographer and will never be transferred. I doubt that it's legally impossible, but it's clearly something that is very important to them as professionals. If you wanted to use their photos for commercial purposes for some reason, you couldn't, because they own the rights and are entitled to profits made from their work. E.g., the venue can't use photos your photographer takes as advertising material without compensating the photographer.

HOWEVER, copyright is not the right to make copies. It's a specific legal thing. You can absolutely get printing rights and rights to reproduce (for non commercial purposes) the digital copies of all the photos. My FI and I are pretty private so we also have it in our contract that our photographer will not post our photos on her website or use them as part of her portfolio. If that's what you mean when you say you want copyrights, you can probably get that. If you ask nicely that they not post your photos anywhere, I'm sure someone will work with you. Just don't use the word copyright!

As for prints, get them yourself from Walmart or something. With digital photography there's no reason to pay a professional to print them for you.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

They don't need to see the location before they show up on the day of your wedding. Don't micromanage them. They're professionals.

If your parents' demands are what's making the photographers say no, then either scale back their demands or prepare to pay for it yourself and not have to listen to your parents' demands.

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

They don't need to see the location before they show up on the day of your wedding. Don't micromanage them. They're professionals.

If your parents' demands are what's making the photographers say no, then either scale back their demands or prepare to pay for it yourself and not have to listen to your parents' demands.

Yes, ,my parents are the one making the demands. I feel extremely uncomfortable asking the photographers these questions. Paying for it ourselves is not an option as we have already tried that and they threw a fit. I am having a conversation with them tonight because I just was upset my favorite vendor didn't book with us because my parents demands.

chibiyui · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

They don't need to see the location before they show up on the day of your wedding. Don't micromanage them. They're professionals.

If your parents' demands are what's making the photographers say no, then either scale back their demands or prepare to pay for it yourself and not have to listen to your parents' demands.

Yes, ,my parents are the one making the demands. I feel extremely uncomfortable asking the photographers these questions. Paying for it ourselves is not an option as we have already tried that and they threw a fit. I am having a conversation with them tonight because I just was upset my favorite vendor didn't book with us because my parents demands.

I think you need to tell your parents that A. You really like this vendor and B. what they are asking is unreasonable. No photog is going to give up copyright, and they really only need to show up like, a half hour before their start time, day of to get a lay of the land/lighting issues, and they will do that anyway if they are good.

phira · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

They don't need to see the location before they show up on the day of your wedding. Don't micromanage them. They're professionals.

If your parents' demands are what's making the photographers say no, then either scale back their demands or prepare to pay for it yourself and not have to listen to your parents' demands.

Yes, ,my parents are the one making the demands. I feel extremely uncomfortable asking the photographers these questions. Paying for it ourselves is not an option as we have already tried that and they threw a fit. I am having a conversation with them tonight because I just was upset my favorite vendor didn't book with us because my parents demands.

... Yeah, I'd just go ahead and pay for it anyway. What are they going to do about it?

kitty8403 · May 2014

bananasplit472001 said:

Rebl90 said:

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

No where did it say that they had to be an hour early just to look at the site. We are asking if photographers had shot at our locations before. If they had not been to the locations we asked if they would be able to come with us to look at the location ahead of the wedding like months before. Which we would pay them for.

I can't imagine why a site tour months in advance is necessary. Might be helpful, if I were shooting, to know what the place was like, but it's their call and I don't see why it needs to be required. Giving them a description of where you'll be (inside? outside? balcony? alcove?) or pointing them to a web site should clue them in for most potential issues. Do you have huge walls of glass or low ceilings with dim yellow lighting everywhere that you anticipate being tricky?

kitty8403 · May 2014

Re copyrights and print releases, this is an issue where most experienced photographers have set contracts and policies in place. (eta) In general, wedding photography is not work for hire -- that is, the photographer is the artist and therefore owns the artwork. You are given permission to reproduce the photos in various formats for personal/family use. If you want them to change something in their contracts, they may or may not go for it.

I am curious, though. Are none of the packages you're paying for covering editing services? I can't think of a wedding tog I've interviewed who didn't include up to X number of edited images in the pricing. (I've shot weddings with minimal/no edits and no rights restrictions before, but those cases were strictly as personal favors to friends).

lyndausvi · May 2014

If you are communicating to the photographers like you are to us it's no wonder you are having problems.

Not trying to be mean, but delivery is half the game in negotiations. If everyone is turning you down either your demands are too much (which on the surface doesn't appear to be) and/or your delivery on what you want is not being properly conveyed.

At some point this becomes true:

Maybe it's time to either rethink your demands or how you are trying to convey them?

bananasplit472001 · May 2014

kitty8403 said:

bananasplit472001 said:

Rebl90 said:

I have to say that I'm also pretty confused as to why you are having so much difficulties with photographers. If your parents have made specific conditions that most photographers are finding unreasonable, then you should do what the PPs have said and pay for it yourself.

I will say that some of them might be find it offending if you are telling them that one of your conditions is they need to be an hour early just to look at the site. I think any photographer worth their salt would be able to get a good lay of the land fairly quickly and will tell you how much time they need, if any at all. (Example, my photographer had never seen the site of our E-photos and they turned out AMAZING, and she had a fantastic eye for setting us up).

No where did it say that they had to be an hour early just to look at the site. We are asking if photographers had shot at our locations before. If they had not been to the locations we asked if they would be able to come with us to look at the location ahead of the wedding like months before. Which we would pay them for.

I can't imagine why a site tour months in advance is necessary. Might be helpful, if I were shooting, to know what the place was like, but it's their call and I don't see why it needs to be required. Giving them a description of where you'll be (inside? outside? balcony? alcove?) or pointing them to a web site should clue them in for most potential issues. Do you have huge walls of glass or low ceilings with dim yellow lighting everywhere that you anticipate being tricky?

Yes, we have a Chuppah on a stage in a low lighting chapel. At this point we are just asking if they have possibly shot in our chapel or something like it. We actually found several great photographers in the past few weeks.

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