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NWR: Hobby Lobby Case

JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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I'm refreshing the SCOTUS website and NY Times like a hawk.  How do you all feel about this?
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Re: NWR: Hobby Lobby Case

  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    My Facebook news feed is not looking good.  Fuck.  I'm hoping these people are wrong or haven't read the whole decision.

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  • stef42188stef42188 member
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    Unfortunately they sided with Hobby Lobby and the other company - which is too bad, but somewhat expected, since there is a 5-4 majority of conservatives on the SC
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  • JasperandOpalJasperandOpal member
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    Yeah, I agree, this is about so much more than just contraceptives.  Basically companies can just align themselves with whichever religious beliefs suit them (and their wallets) best at the detriment of their employees.  Its just another work-around that large corporations can use to push agendas and make money without taking care of their employees. 
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  • stef42188stef42188 member
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    JCbride2015 said:
    Shit.  The opinion finally came out and I'm reading it now.  I honestly didn't expect this-- I think they are reading RFRA wayyyyy too broadly.  Given their previous interpretations of RFRA I did not think it would come out this way.

    ETA: this is more about interpreting RFRA than the ACA.  I'm very scared of a slippery slope in which closely held corporations can declare religious views about any fucking thing they want because it's convenient.

    Extremely pissed about why the contraceptives issue, hell yes.  More worried about what this means for corporate "religious freedom" bullshit?  Hell fucking yes.
    Same. I also do not understand the conservative stance on business. Deregulate, so that they have less rules to govern their business practices (lack of minimum wage or not increasing it, etc), but allow them to thrust their religious beliefs upon their employees, therefore making more rules? To play devil's advocate to myself, I totally understand that they think they are being forced to follow something against their beliefs, but knowing that it feels crappy to have that happen to you, why would you do it to your employees? 
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    @stef42188 Exactly.  All of this is results-based, it's got no internally consistency at all.  They just want to push the most socially conservative agenda possible and they will use whatever legal argument they can think of to do it, whether it is cohesive or not.

    The distinction between closely-held and public corporations, for the purpose of this ruling, is a complete joke.  Walmart is a fucking "closely held" corporation.  The legal difference is in their reporting obligations, not in the liability protection and tax protections of the business organization.  A corporation is a corporation is a corporation.  There is zero reason to treat the two types differently under RFRA, except that it allowed SCOTUS to get the result they wanted in this particular case.
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  • daria24daria24 member
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    JCbride2015 said:
    Shit.  The opinion finally came out and I'm reading it now.  I honestly didn't expect this-- I think they are reading RFRA wayyyyy too broadly.  Given their previous interpretations of RFRA I did not think it would come out this way.

    ETA: this is more about interpreting RFRA than the ACA.  I'm very scared of a slippery slope in which closely held corporations can declare religious views about any fucking thing they want because it's convenient.

    Extremely pissed about why the contraceptives issue, hell yes.  More worried about what this means for corporate "religious freedom" bullshit?  Hell fucking yes.
    I thought the decision was written narrowly to only involve contraceptives? IE, a corporation (currently) cannot refuse to cover blood transfusions due to religious beliefs? Not that this case won't be precedence for such an argument, but I thought this decision is only in regards to contraception?
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    daria24 said:
    JCbride2015 said:
    Shit.  The opinion finally came out and I'm reading it now.  I honestly didn't expect this-- I think they are reading RFRA wayyyyy too broadly.  Given their previous interpretations of RFRA I did not think it would come out this way.

    ETA: this is more about interpreting RFRA than the ACA.  I'm very scared of a slippery slope in which closely held corporations can declare religious views about any fucking thing they want because it's convenient.

    Extremely pissed about why the contraceptives issue, hell yes.  More worried about what this means for corporate "religious freedom" bullshit?  Hell fucking yes.
    I thought the decision was written narrowly to only involve contraceptives? IE, a corporation (currently) cannot refuse to cover blood transfusions due to religious beliefs? Not that this case won't be precedence for such an argument, but I thought this decision is only in regards to contraception?
    Yes and no.  This decision is as applied to the ACA, so it's only legally binding right now on the contraceptive issue.  But the precedent is very, very broad.

    From Justice Ginsburg's dissent: "In a decision of startling breadth, the Court holds that commercial enterprises, including corporations, along with partnerships and sole proprietorships, can opt out of any law (saving only tax laws) they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs."

    If she says it's a slippery slope, I believe her.
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  • climbingsingleclimbingsingle member
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    and so much this:


    grumbledore said:
    So stupid.  Providing employees with health insurance that covers birth control in no way whatthefucksoever impinges on these idiots' right to religious freedom.  They are still allowed to believe whatever the hell they want.

    I am so sick of "religious freedom" being construed as "I should have the right to impinge your freedom because of my religious beliefs."

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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    I love Fi so much.  I texted him about this and after some discussion he says, "The way this is going, Walmart can run for President."
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  • thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 member
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    grumbledore said:
    So stupid.  Providing employees with health insurance that covers birth control in no way whatthefucksoever impinges on these idiots' right to religious freedom.  They are still allowed to believe whatever the hell they want.

    I am so sick of "religious freedom" being construed as "I should have the right to impinge your freedom because of my religious beliefs."
    This goes both ways though. Nobody should make a person go against what they believe, either way.  "I should have the right to tell you what to do because I think your religious beliefs are crazy."  

    I think employers should be completely removed from offering health insurance and go completely to paying people enough to afford insurance. 

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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    edited June 2014
    thisismynickname said:
    grumbledore said:
    So stupid.  Providing employees with health insurance that covers birth control in no way whatthefucksoever impinges on these idiots' right to religious freedom.  They are still allowed to believe whatever the hell they want.

    I am so sick of "religious freedom" being construed as "I should have the right to impinge your freedom because of my religious beliefs."
    This goes both ways though. Nobody should make a person go against what they believe, either way.  "I should have the right to tell you what to do because I think your religious beliefs are crazy."  

    I think employers should be completely removed from offering health insurance and go completely to paying people enough to afford insurance. 

    I really wanted the ACA to be a single-payer system, for this reason among others.  Insurance should not be tied up with employment.

    ETA: I suppose it could have also worked with a huge minimum wage hike along with reduced-cost insurance markets kind of like we have now, and then it would still be a "market."  But the corporate lobby is pushing against just a few dollars in the minimum wage, I can't imagine how they would push against a true living wage.
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
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    I am now checking out of TK, TH, and Facebook for the next couple hours to force myself to get some studying done.  If I come back and comment on this before 1:00, somebody please internet slap me.

    If I sit here stewing about Con Law, I'll never learn NY Wills and Trusts today.
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  • KatWAGKatWAG member
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    edited June 2014
    grumbledore said:
    So stupid.  Providing employees with health insurance that covers birth control in no way whatthefucksoever impinges on these idiots' right to religious freedom.  They are still allowed to believe whatever the hell they want.

    I am so sick of "religious freedom" being construed as "I should have the right to impinge your freedom because of my religious beliefs."


    FTR, Hobby Lobby didnt ask to not cover all birth control, only emergency contraceptive methods like the morning after pill. Which Hobby Lobby views as a method of abortion.

    I am not surprised at all by the ruling. It went right down party lines.

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  • wandajune6wandajune6 member
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    My Facebook page is blowing up over this. It appears that no one was expecting this verdict and that everyone I know is pretty upset about it.

    I'm a hardcore liberal, born and raised. I also have an MBA and am very pro-business. I still can't get my head around this. There is just too much potential for further exclusions.
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  • alpacalunchalpacalunch member
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    edited June 2014
    Sometimes, your country boggles my mind.

    ETA: I'm quite liberal, and a full supporter of social health care. 
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  • cupcait927cupcait927 member
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    chrisandcait said:
    Sometimes, your country boggles my mind.

    ETA: I'm quite liberal, and a full supporter of social health care. 
    It boggles my mind too, and I live here. I tell FI quite often that I would love to be Canadian.
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  • KatWAGKatWAG member
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    IrishPirate60 said:
    I'd be curious to see how the Supreme Court would rule if the plaintiff in the case had been owned by Muslims, perhaps, or Orthodox Jews--or very conservative Catholics, for that matter.
    I would assum the exact same way especially considering they are using religious freedom as the crux of their argument.
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  • buddysmom80buddysmom80 member
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    This pisses me the fuck off.

    I don't get how this is beneficial to anyone. First of all, you won't cover emergency contraceptives/termination of pregnancies, yet you're willing to contract and pay a claim for pre-natal care PLUS labor and birth claims? I work at an urban hospital and even our rates for a vaginal birth plus room and board is $40,000 and that's for a well mom and baby. A sick mom or baby? Triple that at least.

    I'm not the most business-saavy person in the world, but as an employer I'd rather pay the $20 for the plan B pill or the $350 for the abortion than the $40,000 claim.

    Hey employers, keep your hands off my lady-bits!

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  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl member
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    My Facebook page has been incredibly quiet on this front. Mostly just cat videos and some "like if you love Jesus, scroll past if you heart the devil" crap (I heart the devil obviously because I just kept scrolling, sorry Jesus, you're cool too). Which is kind of nice because well...there are some really stupid people I'm friends with just to keep the peace who should be posting a lot of things like what @JCBride2015 posted up. 

    I just can't understand why a business wants to give a shit. I don't give a shit what medications my employees do or do not take. Just don't show up to work stoned and we're all good.
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