Kitchen reno- your opinion as a buyer

SBmini · July 2014

You can see in my before pictures that the kitchen had white cabinets, white floor and white appliances. It wasn't too much. If anything, it actually made it look like we had more storage because it was harder to tell appliance from cabinet. We replaced them all with stainless because it was our preference, but I wouldn't spend money on appliances for a house I was about to sell. Kitchens of your vintage are typically known for looking dark, small and dingy. Light cabinets will fix all of these complaints. Painting the cabinets a light color will make the whole kitchen look bigger. But gray is not a common color that risks turning buyers off. Since the cabinets, IMO, are not stainable due to the grain, I think white is by far your best option. You can bring color in easily through paint and fabric. Put a little curtain in the window, add a rug, and suddenly, it's not all white. I would run your idea by your realtor and see what she says. I may be wrong. Here's an example of a 70s kitchen updated with a coat of paint on the cabinets. And I take back what I said about the black hardware. Go silver for sure: http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Kitchens/1970-kitchen-update/detail.esi?oid=18209846

JennyColada · July 2014

cupcait927 said:
The house looks great at a glance but once you start living there, you can see how cheaply everything was done. Drives us nuts.

But…isn't that the point? You only want it to look good to buyers. OP doesn't care about giving the new owners a nice kitchen, she just cares about making it good enough to not bring DOWN the selling price (which I think is fair for her to do so).

SBmini · July 2014

I personally didn't care at all what our kitchen looked like, as you can see. For me, I wanted space and storage and cabinets that weren't broken. Anything else we could work with. But I'm not most people. Most people want a move in ready house. Most people don't want to do a kitchen remodel right after they buy a house. Most people don't recognize the difference between painted and new cabinets. To spend $1,500 to turn a kitchen from a total loss and a deal breaker to an OK kitchen that has a few years in it before it needs to be redone will be a huge plus for the house. And it's worth the gamble. Worst case- she loses $1,500. Best case, she makes $15,000.

jenna8984 · July 2014

@southernbelle0915 Great ideas! I love that Ikea island. We did manage to buy a GE flat top range last night for only $400 (4th of July sale) so that was awesome. We already replaced all the windows in the house with white, energy efficient windows and so we have that one purchased just not installed yet. Oh my gosh, we thought the same thing about the counters. We said the space is so small, maybe we can get away with granite on the cheap.....so we priced it out and it was $2,000 for that tiny area!! Sure that's not too bad if we were going to live there forever but since we're not it's not worth it.

cupcait927 · July 2014

JennyColada said:

cupcait927 said:
The house looks great at a glance but once you start living there, you can see how cheaply everything was done. Drives us nuts.

But…isn't that the point? You only want it to look good to buyers. OP doesn't care about giving the new owners a nice kitchen, she just cares about making it good enough to not bring DOWN the selling price (which I think is fair for her to do so).

It looks great to the buyers but actually LIVING in a house that has been done cheap is frustrating. We didn't know just how cheap it had been done until we started living in the house. I understand why they didn't want to dump a ton of money into the house just to sell it but a nice balance between cheap and good quality would've been nice. @jenna8984 has practical ideas for how to do an upgrade on the cheap. Our sellers were just lazy.

ETA - our house is quite similar to @jenna8984's. Little house, perfect for a starter. We have no plans to give our kitchen an entire upgrade but we do plan on doing things right around the whole house, even if it means going slowly and looking for deals wherever we can.

I agree with @sbmini, worst you're out $1500, but you could increase the value of your house by a lot.

jenna8984 · July 2014

cupcait927 said:

JennyColada said:

cupcait927 said:
The house looks great at a glance but once you start living there, you can see how cheaply everything was done. Drives us nuts.

But…isn't that the point? You only want it to look good to buyers. OP doesn't care about giving the new owners a nice kitchen, she just cares about making it good enough to not bring DOWN the selling price (which I think is fair for her to do so).

It looks great to the buyers but actually LIVING in a house that has been done cheap is frustrating. We didn't know just how cheap it had been done until we started living in the house. I understand why they didn't want to dump a ton of money into the house just to sell it but a nice balance between cheap and good quality would've been nice. @jenna8984 has practical ideas for how to do an upgrade on the cheap. Our sellers were just lazy.

Dude I feel you. When I moved in the counters were a nice grey swirl. I had NO IDEA that it was painted over the original 50's teal countertop. Until 6 months in when it all started peeling and now my whole counter is peeling. I would have rather they just replaced it with a cheap laminate or left it alone. The items we are doing aren't super high quality but they will know what they're getting with a new laminate counter lol

cupcait927 · July 2014

@SBmini your link with the 70s kitchen gives me hope! Our kitchen is very similar to the first, except smaller and with already painted white cabinets. It looks like the previous owners TRIED to replicate the look of the After picture but failed miserably. So now we're going to try and fix their mistakes. I honestly don't know what to do about our cabinets though. They've already been painted over once and they did a shitty job. The insides are that super dark wood still and half of them are flaking apart due to water or liquids being spilled inside.

Bubblegum5586 · July 2014

cupcait927 said:

JennyColada said:

cupcait927 said:
The house looks great at a glance but once you start living there, you can see how cheaply everything was done. Drives us nuts.

But…isn't that the point? You only want it to look good to buyers. OP doesn't care about giving the new owners a nice kitchen, she just cares about making it good enough to not bring DOWN the selling price (which I think is fair for her to do so).

It looks great to the buyers but actually LIVING in a house that has been done cheap is frustrating. We didn't know just how cheap it had been done until we started living in the house. I understand why they didn't want to dump a ton of money into the house just to sell it but a nice balance between cheap and good quality would've been nice. @jenna8984 has practical ideas for how to do an upgrade on the cheap. Our sellers were just lazy.
ETA - our house is quite similar to @jenna8984's. Little house, perfect for a starter. We have no plans to give our kitchen an entire upgrade but we do plan on doing things right around the whole house, even if it means going slowly and looking for deals wherever we can.
I agree with @sbmini, worst you're out $1500, but you could increase the value of your house by a lot.

Our seller painted all the rooms white and refinished the hardwood floors which was great! Until we moved in and started painting, and realized how sloppy he was, it's all over the trim in some places and legit drops on the baseboards!

And the floors look great until you look closer and he didn't sand before putting down the shellac (or whatever it's called) so when I sweep I realize its stuff stuck under it! Including a few pieces of hair I found!!! WTH?!

cupcait927 · July 2014

@bubblegum1309 yeah I'm fairly certain in our house that the previous owners were blind when they painted the rooms in our house. Nothing was even, paint splattered everywhere and the colors they chose were awful. Not to mention, the one area that they must've actually hired someone to do (based on how well it's done) is the hallway and that color is lime green. Atrocious. Awful. Burns your eyes to look at it.

And omg about your floors! That would drive me insane to look at stuff stuck UNDER the finish!

SBmini · July 2014

cupcait927 said:

@SBmini your link with the 70s kitchen gives me hope! Our kitchen is very similar to the first, except smaller and with already painted white cabinets. It looks like the previous owners TRIED to replicate the look of the After picture but failed miserably. So now we're going to try and fix their mistakes. I honestly don't know what to do about our cabinets though. They've already been painted over once and they did a shitty job. The insides are that super dark wood still and half of them are flaking apart due to water or liquids being spilled inside.

If the inside of the cabinet doors are damage, I would recommend refacing. You would keep the skeleton of the cabinets, but get new doors. It costs more than paint, but less than a full redo. And you wouldn't have to strip paint, which is an awful, horrible job.

doeydo · July 2014

What about staining the cabinets really dark?

RebeccaB88 · July 2014

I'm still in my starter home. A little, 2/1 cottage just big enough for one (maybe two). I had a down payment and some money to put into it, but not a huge amount. I did NOT want a cheap as possible remodel. The previous owner did some stuff himself on the cheap, and I ended up having to rip it all out and pay to have it done correctly. I didn't have much, but I was not about to sacrifice quality. I just shopped around as much as I could, bought appliances at a home remodeling expo (no county sales tax, and bought floor models at a big discount, plus a discount for buying 4 items at once). If I saw a cheap clean-up reno, and I still wanted the house, I'd bargain you down to the list price before the remodel plus maybe a few hundred (and would not go over that amount), and promptly rip out all the new stuff you put in and re-do it my way. A lot of new stuff would go into the trash if the quality wasn't exactly what I wanted. You can certainly over-improve for a neighborhood, but you can get quality at a decent price if you put work into it. If you don't want to work at it, then I'd list it as is, broken oven and all.

That kitchen would be a dealbreaker for me regardless, because of the lack of counter space. I'd consider an island necessary. One of the first things I looked for in my house was the counter space (and it sold me on the rest of the house). You need a lot more. I'd seriously consider keeping the current configuration and just replacing cabinets, along with a new wall oven and cooktop. (I see now you've already bought a range - I don't think I'd have done it that way. Keeping the current configuration would probably be easier on you.) Most people hate laminate, but you're right that granite would probably be too much. Maybe look at something like Corian or Silestone. Better quality than laminate but gives a cleaner, more modern look. And not as $$$ as granite. And it's sturdier than laminate. You should be able to get a perfectly acceptable stainless steel sink for under $100, which looks and functions well. There are backsplashes that are relatively inexpensive, but I personally would rather see the flooring updated and add my own backsplash. Its easy to get a backsplash you love but for the buyer, it's too blah, too busy, too colorful, etc. A new kitchen faucet would probably be a nice touch too.

Do you have a Habitat for Humanity store in your town? Ours is awesome. They sell any building materials that have been donated that they can't use, decorative items like light fixtures, plumbing, sometimes even gently used appliances. If you have something to donate, sometimes they will swap you or give you a discount on what you want to buy. Ours has tile (open boxes, partial boxes, small quantities), vinyl flooring, carpet, lumber, faucet/knob sets, stone remnants, lighting, windows, paint, almost any kind of building material. It's an awesome place if you've got one, and benefits a good organization.

jenna8984 · July 2014

@rebeccab88 Habitat for Humanity store sounds awesome. I live out in the boonies so we certainly don't have one but they might like an hour away in the city. I know the lack of counter space and cabinets really sucks but that's how all the 50's houses are around here. I live in New England where there are very few new homes, the ones that are new are 400k. So anyone buying in my price range knows they are getting 50's and they are getting small kitchen, it's just how it is here. Not like AZ or FL where they can just find a newer community.

My dad said to replace the cabinets instead of "putting lipstick on a pig" (I think lolo said that comment as well) but I emailed two realtors I've been working with and they both said not to, that I wouldn't get the return on them. They are both in favor of the new range. One said leave the cabinets alone and just clean them, the other said go ahead and paint them grey. So I guess those are our options at this point since they know what it'll sell for.

We have updated all the expensive stuff like roof, furnace, windows so hopefully someone takes that into consideration and knows "oh cool we really only have to do the kitchen" but even then no one would buy this house and put in a high end kitchen, it would just be silly in an old small home.

cupcait927 · July 2014

@jenna8984 we bought our house because of all of the newer, more expensive things. The roof was just done two years ago and the windows are all less than 5 years old (with the exception of the kitchen window). And we have a paved driveway, which in our neck of the woods is RARE. I would much rather buy a house where all of the big, expensive things were taken care of than have a brand new kitchen and still have to replace the roof, furnace, windows, etc. As long as the kitchen was functional, (and ours is), I was good. It's ugly but it does the job, the appliances are newer, and I know we can work on updating the rest of it over time.

NYCMercedes · July 2014

What color is your new stove? That would have a bearing on the cabinet color. As your refrigerator is white, I think white would be best for the cabinets. I wouldn't bother with a tile backsplash as you won't get your money back on that. I agree on white laminate countertops. With a small single bowl sink you'll get more counter space. Just put the lipstick on to change the kitchen from a "deal breaker" to a "meh, I can live with this fresh space for a short while". If you didn't already have the new window, I wouldn't even change what's there as the window appears to already been replaced once.

beachyone15 · July 2014

RebeccaB88 said:

I'm still in my starter home. A little, 2/1 cottage just big enough for one (maybe two). I had a down payment and some money to put into it, but not a huge amount. I did NOT want a cheap as possible remodel. The previous owner did some stuff himself on the cheap, and I ended up having to rip it all out and pay to have it done correctly. I didn't have much, but I was not about to sacrifice quality. I just shopped around as much as I could, bought appliances at a home remodeling expo (no county sales tax, and bought floor models at a big discount, plus a discount for buying 4 items at once). If I saw a cheap clean-up reno, and I still wanted the house, I'd bargain you down to the list price before the remodel plus maybe a few hundred (and would not go over that amount), and promptly rip out all the new stuff you put in and re-do it my way. A lot of new stuff would go into the trash if the quality wasn't exactly what I wanted. You can certainly over-improve for a neighborhood, but you can get quality at a decent price if you put work into it. If you don't want to work at it, then I'd list it as is, broken oven and all.

That kitchen would be a dealbreaker for me regardless, because of the lack of counter space. I'd consider an island necessary. One of the first things I looked for in my house was the counter space (and it sold me on the rest of the house). You need a lot more. I'd seriously consider keeping the current configuration and just replacing cabinets, along with a new wall oven and cooktop. (I see now you've already bought a range - I don't think I'd have done it that way. Keeping the current configuration would probably be easier on you.) Most people hate laminate, but you're right that granite would probably be too much. Maybe look at something like Corian or Silestone. Better quality than laminate but gives a cleaner, more modern look. And not as $$$ as granite. And it's sturdier than laminate. You should be able to get a perfectly acceptable stainless steel sink for under $100, which looks and functions well. There are backsplashes that are relatively inexpensive, but I personally would rather see the flooring updated and add my own backsplash. Its easy to get a backsplash you love but for the buyer, it's too blah, too busy, too colorful, etc. A new kitchen faucet would probably be a nice touch too.

Do you have a Habitat for Humanity store in your town? Ours is awesome. They sell any building materials that have been donated that they can't use, decorative items like light fixtures, plumbing, sometimes even gently used appliances. If you have something to donate, sometimes they will swap you or give you a discount on what you want to buy. Ours has tile (open boxes, partial boxes, small quantities), vinyl flooring, carpet, lumber, faucet/knob sets, stone remnants, lighting, windows, paint, almost any kind of building material. It's an awesome place if you've got one, and benefits a good organization.

Completely agree on this. This is the #1 thing I'd look for in a kitchen. You can always update counters, cabinets, etc. but you can't really add space (not easily anyway).

OP - I think you should definitely go with an island. I don't think it makes much of a difference what you do with the cabinets as they are easily replaceable. Good luck!

lyndausvi · July 2014

jenna8984 said:

@rebeccab88 Habitat for Humanity store sounds awesome. I live out in the boonies so we certainly don't have one but they might like an hour away in the city. I know the lack of counter space and cabinets really sucks but that's how all the 50's houses are around here. I live in New England where there are very few new homes, the ones that are new are 400k. So anyone buying in my price range knows they are getting 50's and they are getting small kitchen, it's just how it is here. Not like AZ or FL where they can just find a newer community.

My dad said to replace the cabinets instead of "putting lipstick on a pig" (I think lolo said that comment as well) but I emailed two realtors I've been working with and they both said not to, that I wouldn't get the return on them. They are both in favor of the new range. One said leave the cabinets alone and just clean them, the other said go ahead and paint them grey. So I guess those are our options at this point since they know what it'll sell for.
We have updated all the expensive stuff like roof, furnace, windows so hopefully someone takes that into consideration and knows "oh cool we really only have to do the kitchen" but even then no one would buy this house and put in a high end kitchen, it would just be silly in an old small home.

I live in a small mountain town and we have one.

Then again we have tons of multi-million dollar homes around here. They like to remodel often and have stuff to donate.

Anyway, you keep saying it would be silly put in a high end kitchen in a small old house. First I think you are underestimating the power of a nice kitchen. But the biggest thing is there is a lot of middle ground between a new HIGH-END kitchen and an old 1950's kitchen.

Sure I would not put in a $50+K kitchen in a house I'm about to sell (that is high-end to me), but $1500 remodel is really on the other end of the spectrum.

I get not wanting to spend a lot on a place you are about to sell, but I can totally see value in a mid-range remodel.

jenna8984 · July 2014

lyndausvi said:

I live in a small mountain town and we have one.

Then again we have tons of multi-million dollar homes around here. They like to remodel often and have stuff to donate.

Anyway, you keep saying it would be silly put in a high end kitchen in a small old house. First I think you are underestimating the power of a nice kitchen. But the biggest thing is there is a lot of middle ground between a new HIGH-END kitchen and an old 1950's kitchen.

Sure I would not put in a $50+K kitchen in a house I'm about to sell (that is high-end to me), but $1500 remodel is really on the other end of the spectrum.

I get not wanting to spend a lot on a place you are about to sell, but I can totally see value in a mid-range remodel.

Yea that is totally where my dad is coming from. He'd rather see us do a 5-10k kitchen. But two realtors have told me that I wouldn't see the return on my particular house in my particular area. So I might as well trust them, I'd hate to be one of those idiots who doesn't listen to the professional advice and then flushes money down the toilet. Thanks for all the tips.

RebeccaB88 · July 2014

lyndausvi said:

Anyway, you keep saying it would be silly put in a high end kitchen in a small old house. First I think you are underestimating the power of a nice kitchen. But the biggest thing is there is a lot of middle ground between a new HIGH-END kitchen and an old 1950's kitchen.

Sure I would not put in a $50+K kitchen in a house I'm about to sell (that is high-end to me), but $1500 remodel is really on the other end of the spectrum.

I get not wanting to spend a lot on a place you are about to sell, but I can totally see value in a mid-range remodel.

The bolded - totally this! There is power in the kitchen! You say you think your target buyer is a single person, starter home. It could also be an older person downsizing, someone recently divorced or widowed, a single parent. I was single, but the kitchen was still a huge deal for me. I need that counter space and I use every inch of what I've got, which is every bit of what my mom has in her larger home. I knew the big, important things were done (foundation was piered, roof done, HVAC updated, windows), so I could focus on the stuff I was living with and using day to day. I didn't care as much about the crappy laminate countertops when I saw "ZOMG COUNTER SPACE!!!". The foundation was there, and that was a Big Thing. I'm improving from there. And my house was built in 1952(?), and you're right, most kitchens weren't big then. This house had by far the most space of any house I looked at in the area, even newer ones. In fact, the counter space grabbed me so hard that the serious lack of storage elsewhere in the house didn't completely register until I moved in and ran out of room. :P

I love gray. My living room is gray. I still would not like gray cabinets. I love white cabinets, but not everyone does. Paint and reface if you truly can't replace. And fancy hardware jazzes things up.

On paint colors...the previous owner of the house painted the whole thing before putting it on the market. Every room was baby poop mustard yellow, except for burgundy accent walls in both bedrooms and a painfully bright turquoise in the living room. I think he was going for neutral with the yellow, but it just looked like he scraped it out of a diaper. I repainted it all.

I'd still put money into new flooring rather than a backsplash. Even if it's just putting in vinyl, it gives a cleaner feel. Let the new owner do the backsplash if they want. And figure out some kind of island, even a butcher block, portable one. Could market it as extra storage too.

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

jenna8984 said:

lyndausvi said:

I live in a small mountain town and we have one.

Then again we have tons of multi-million dollar homes around here. They like to remodel often and have stuff to donate.

Anyway, you keep saying it would be silly put in a high end kitchen in a small old house. First I think you are underestimating the power of a nice kitchen. But the biggest thing is there is a lot of middle ground between a new HIGH-END kitchen and an old 1950's kitchen.

Sure I would not put in a $50+K kitchen in a house I'm about to sell (that is high-end to me), but $1500 remodel is really on the other end of the spectrum.

I get not wanting to spend a lot on a place you are about to sell, but I can totally see value in a mid-range remodel.

Yea that is totally where my dad is coming from. He'd rather see us do a 5-10k kitchen. But two realtors have told me that I wouldn't see the return on my particular house in my particular area. So I might as well trust them, I'd hate to be one of those idiots who doesn't listen to the professional advice and then flushes money down the toilet. Thanks for all the tips.

This is where I'd see more value in spending nothing than in spending $1500. Or giving the $1500 cash at closing - I feel like that would be a lot more enticing to buyers than a fresh coat of paint on 60 year old cabinets. People like to make their own choices, and while the updates will absolutely lessen some of the immediate "ew, old kitchen" reactions, I really don't feel like $1500 would get you any ROI. New laminate counters would not be what swayed me from a house priced a few grand cheaper with garbage counters that I could throw away without guilt and put in my own.

Have you ever looked into gel stain? A nice dark stain might be a good alternative to painting your cabinets, for about the same amount of work, and would give great contrast to all that white.

http://blog.diynetwork.com/maderemade/how-to/use-gel-stain-to-spruce-up-cabinets-lamp-bases-and-more/

jenna8984 · July 2014

So I just thought this was absolutely hilarious. I sent the picture to my friend who is from the West Coast. She's never seen anything like my kitchen and she didn't believe me that it was really my house, she thought I found the picture online and was messing with her! bahahahahah

Ooooo I wish

JCbride2015 · July 2014

I am late to this thread but I have been reading with interest. This is such a hard decision when you are moving out.

My mom is a home stager in MA and she sees this issue all the time. In fact, your kitchen looks just like my Pop Pop's kitchen in southern Mass.

So, I will channel my mom for a sec here. Jenna is right that putting a lot of money into this kitchen is an investment she won't see back. $1500 can go a long way to just do something for the kitchen. Replacing the appliances with low-end but functional options is a good place to start. Probably the only other thing my mom would tell you to do is paint the cabinets AND replace the door hardware with something cleaner and simpler.

Cabinet paint color: white would look great (I firmly believe you can't have too much white in a kitchen. A white kitchen is like heaven). That grey is not working with the warm tones in your floor. The cool cabinets and warm floor would clash IMO. If you want a color, I'd go with something with warm undertones like a buttercream shade.

But I also think the PP's who are saying they would rather not put lipstick on a pig have a really good point. Most buyers are going to come in and want to change things anyway.

So why not list it as is, have an open house, and see what happens? If a buyer is interested but on the fence, offer the $1500 credit at closing. If you don't get an offer in two weeks, go ahead and put lipstick on the kitchen.

jenna8984 · July 2014

Good points @jcbride2015 and I don't know anyone else with a Pop pop! Well we pronounce it "pup-up" but I was told it's a Swedish thing? lol I am definitely leaning towards the cream color paint like you suggested. My brother has that is his house and it looks really nice. And true, we aren't in a huge rush to sell so we could see what happens after some feedback.

JCbride2015 · July 2014

jenna8984 said:

Good points @jcbride2015 and I don't know anyone else with a Pop pop! Well we pronounce it "pup-up" but I was told it's a Swedish thing? lol I am definitely leaning towards the cream color paint like you suggested. My brother has that is his house and it looks really nice. And true, we aren't in a huge rush to sell so we could see what happens after some feedback.

Hm. We aren't Swedish. Now that I'm older I mostly call him Pop. My other grandfather was Doug-Doug until at around age 16 I finally got wayyyyy too old to call anybody Doug-doug. I think I just liked repeated syllables as a baby haha.

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

JCbride2015 said:

jenna8984 said:

Good points @jcbride2015 and I don't know anyone else with a Pop pop! Well we pronounce it "pup-up" but I was told it's a Swedish thing? lol I am definitely leaning towards the cream color paint like you suggested. My brother has that is his house and it looks really nice. And true, we aren't in a huge rush to sell so we could see what happens after some feedback.

Hm. We aren't Swedish. Now that I'm older I mostly call him Pop. My other grandfather was Doug-Doug until at around age 16 I finally got wayyyyy too old to call anybody Doug-doug. I think I just liked repeated syllables as a baby haha.

My mom is Swedish, and called her grandpa Papa pronounced "Puh-puh." (And my great-grandmother, for whatever reason, was called "Mitty"). We called my grandpa Mop though... by-product of my older sister not being able to say "Grandpa." They were always, and shall remain, Grandma and Mop. The "Papa" did work its way over to my dad's side though, with my grandma's boyfriend "Papa Walter."

MrsAitch · July 2014

I haven't read everyone's reply, but it seems really wasteful and deceitful to me to just to a cheap fix in order to make it look better to sell the house. I'd just leave it alone.

Kitchen reno- your opinion as a buyer

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