J Crew new sizing - 000

stef42188 · July 2014

Did you guys see this? http://time.com/2970046/j-crew-000-small-size/

So J Crew is opening up stores in Asian markets and introduced a 000 since women in those markets tend to be smaller. The 000 is also going to be offered in US markets and online, and fits a 23" waist. I just thought this was particularly interesting because J Crew already has serious vanity sizing - their clothes run super big, so if they labeled them as they actually are (i.e., a 4 should be a 4 and not a 0), then they wouldn't need to introduce this size. It is kind of insulting that manufacturers think women will shop at a store just to wear the smallest size possible - so for example, if a woman is a 4 at Banana but a 0 at J Crew, manufacturers assume women will go to J Crew. It makes me think that these companies assume women are small-minded with big egos that need to be soothed.

On the other end of the spectrum, I just bought my dress in June from Allure Couture. I knew in advance that bridal sizing is "different", and I am not offended by a number on a tag, so when they took my measurements and ordered my size I wasn't shocked. In full disclosure, I am 34-27-36. Their sizing chart is here: http://www.allurebridals.com/sizechart. The sizing of an 8 is 35-26.5-38.5, which equals a waist-to-hip ratio of less than 0.7. I am not even sure how realistic that is. I squat heavy 3 times a week and I'm not sure I could get my booty 2.5 inches bigger. The consultant also told me that every time she has called that company to talk about sizing, she has spoken with a man - which is just a tidbit that I found interesting, that perhaps men are creating these size charts. The CEO of J Crew is a man, too.

ETA: I really did have paragraphs...

KatieinBkln · July 2014

This doesn't surprise me, but it definitely highlights just how ridiculous vanity sizing has gotten. J. Crew is the only store in town where I can sometimes fit in a 0 (usually a 2). In real life I'm more of a 4/6. In wedding dresses I'm an 8. At American Eagle (don't even judge me, I love tween stores because they CHEAP!) I'm an 8 in pants and a large in tops. I basically don't have "a size" anymore, just a catalogue of "what size am I here?" that fills otherwise useful brain space.

None of it makes any sense. But the notion of triple-zero should probably tip retailers off that we're all onto their game...

emmyg65 · July 2014

Ann Taylor (I think) "recut" all their patterns a few years ago so all of a sudden I was a 6 instead of an 8. And then of course they had to add 00 for very petite women. Vanity sizing is a real thing! And yeah, actually, even though I generally consider myself to be a smart person, I don't like shopping at H&M because their clothes run small. I'm a Medium, not a Large, dammit!

Bubblegum5586 · July 2014

My sister has grown out of her "baby fat" phase and has matured into a beautiful 20 year old women. She loves shopping now and is proud of her body (just in time for the crop top trend that came back!). Anyways, she was showing me all the new clothes she bought and including a bunch from old navy (she got a $100 GC there) she said she was surprised at all the things she found that she loved, and had to actually put a lot back to hit the $100 mark. She also said she loved that she was a size 2 there where in other stores she is a size 4 or 6. So yea... I guess sizing it that way works... I mean she went their because of the GC, now I guess we'll see if she goes back with her own money. UGHHHHH no Paragraphs!!!

Cookie Pusher · July 2014

I'm tiny. Like, ridiculously tiny. Children's clothes tiny. There are actually not as many stores as you'd think who sell a size 0 or 1. Having worked in retail, I can say that most juniors lines do have 0/1 but most Missy lines start at a 2. It's totally fine for casual clothes, but it is damn near impossible to find things like suits, suit separates, and formal dresses that don't look like they belong at the prom when you're small.

As for vanity sizing, I worked as the equivalent of a personal shopper for several years. You would not believe how many women we had who would come in and INSIST that they were 2+ sizes smaller than they actually were. So insistent that they would demand I bring them the size they think they are just so they can squeeze themselves into the items and damage them. While not all women were like this, the vast majority of the customers I dealt with were very focused on the size on the label.

JCbride2015 · July 2014

Eh, I don't really care what new sizes J. Crew introduces. I'm a 6 at J. Crew and an 8 most other places, so 000 has no effect on me. I don't understand why the internet cares about this, unless all these articles are actually written by people who previously couldn't shop at J. Crew because 00 was too big.

Maggie0829 · July 2014

I think that since most everyone know what game these clothing stores play with their sizes that hopefully most people will realize that what "size" you are does not freaking matter! I mean if I am a 10 in one store but a 6 in another but then an 8 in yet another store then my size (or should I say sizes) should have no bearing on how I feel about myself. I actually laugh at the fact that I have a closet full of clothes that fit and that I like but that range in sizes from 4-10.

stef42188 · July 2014

JCbride2015 said:

Eh, I don't really care what new sizes J. Crew introduces. I'm a 6 at J. Crew and an 8 most other places, so 000 has no effect on me. I don't understand why the internet cares about this, unless all these articles are actually written by people who previously couldn't shop at J. Crew because 00 was too big.

I guess it is the subject of vanity sizing in general that annoys me - the fact that J Crew has skewed sizing so much that it's unrealistic. As @KatieInBkln said, it's like you have to keep a mental list of your size in a bunch of different stores. It would be so much easier if things were sized in actual measurements, like men's pants, and you could just walk in and pull a 30X32 (or whatever) off the rack.

JCbride2015 · July 2014

stef42188 said:

JCbride2015 said:

Eh, I don't really care what new sizes J. Crew introduces. I'm a 6 at J. Crew and an 8 most other places, so 000 has no effect on me. I don't understand why the internet cares about this, unless all these articles are actually written by people who previously couldn't shop at J. Crew because 00 was too big.

I guess it is the subject of vanity sizing in general that annoys me - the fact that J Crew has skewed sizing so much that it's unrealistic. As @KatieInBkln said, it's like you have to keep a mental list of your size in a bunch of different stores. It would be so much easier if things were sized in actual measurements, like men's pants, and you could just walk in and pull a 30X32 (or whatever) off the rack.

Measurement sizing makes a lot of sense, but that can be subject to vanity sizing just as easily. We don't wear our jeans around the same area we'd take the measurement anyway, so a pair of size 28 jeans is actually cut to fit around the hips they expect somebody with a 28" waist to have. My waist is about 29", but I wear a 28 in J. Crew jeans.

falsara · July 2014

The vanity sizing only bugs me because I am small but tall instead of short and tiny. Most size zero clothes are made to fit women who are 5'5" or shorter, at 5'8" its a PITA to find jeans or pants long enough for me that also fit my waist.

I'm a 2 in bridal but I'm a 0 to 00 most other places. Unfortunately nobody has figured out that they need to make pants in those sizes that also fit tall people. I hate having to go in the store try on the pants to figure out what size waist I need and then I have to order the longs or extra longs off line (if they even have them). I went to the store because I wanted to buy pants in person.

I HATE SHOPPING its very frustrating.

stef42188 · July 2014

cwradford said:

I'm a 2 in bridal but I'm a 0 to 00 most other places. Unfortunately nobody has figured out that they need to make pants in those sizes that also fit tall people. I hate having to go in the store try on the pants to figure out what size waist I need and then I have to order the longs or extra longs off line (if they even have them). I went to the store because I wanted to buy pants in person.

I HATE SHOPPING its very frustrating.

I have the opposite problem - I'm 5'1 and have to get ALL my pants tailored. I HATE pants.

erollis · July 2014

I still haven't figured out who these designers and retailers are making clothes for. I wear what fits. I'm an 8/10/large normally in bottoms and a 6/8/small/medium in tops and dresses. When something fits I buy it. I actually was a 12 by wedding sizing measurements but I got a 10 in my wedding gown. I knew if I fit it in the store I would be fine with that size. Even if it was "stretched" out from use. I still had the boob area taken in a tad.

When I was younger I totally bought into vanity sizing. I hated being larger then a size 6/small.

KatieinBkln · July 2014

It doesn't bother me. I just find it eye-roll-worthy. Like, no one is actually less than zero. If you have to start tripling your zeros, your whole system is straight fucked, just numerically. I'm actually surprised that J. Crew keeps its sizes consistent across markets. I find I usually have to pick a bigger number in European sizes, and whenever I step foot into Uniqlo I'm basically a giant for Japanese sizing. I guess it's probably not cost effective for a mass retailer like J. Crew to specifically make different cuts/sizing for their Japanese market, so I get it. It's just absurd in a kind of hilarious way.

theexactlee · July 2014

A lot of designer stores offer double and triple zero and always have. Ridiculous but I guess purple buy them. It's very of though that J Crew is doing it. Not like they offer runway gowns.

Inkdancer · July 2014

cwradford said:

The vanity sizing only bugs me because I am small but tall instead of short and tiny. Most size zero clothes are made to fit women who are 5'5" or shorter, at 5'8" its a PITA to find jeans or pants long enough for me that also fit my waist.

I'm a 2 in bridal but I'm a 0 to 00 most other places. Unfortunately nobody has figured out that they need to make pants in those sizes that also fit tall people. I hate having to go in the store try on the pants to figure out what size waist I need and then I have to order the longs or extra longs off line (if they even have them). I went to the store because I wanted to buy pants in person.

I HATE SHOPPING its very frustrating.

Ugh, this. I can range from a 12 to an 18 depending on where pants hit, and that means that sometimes I have to buy average (if it's an 18) and sometimes I need XXLong. Ugh just gimme some damn pants.

NYCMercedes · July 2014

I wore size 000 when I was 000 years old.

SBmini · July 2014

J Crew's sizes are obnoxious. I'm a size 27 in European sizes, which is small... but not all that small. I wear a size 2-4, depending on the store, sometimes a 6. But in J Crew... I have one size 0 skirt that practically falls off of me! The 2 was HUGE and I ordered the 0 from another store. When it arrived at my house, it was still big! Now, that didn't make me feel good about my body, it made me angry at their sizing. And it makes me feel bad for all those tiny girls out there who have been sized out of J Crew.

But I'm sure they feel stuck. The backlash they would receive if suddenly all their loyal customers' went up two sizes in their clothes would be on par with the backlash they are receiving from the 000 size. Resizing would be the right thing to do, it's a shame that they did this instead of admitting that they are lying to women and sorry sweetheart, you aren't actually the size the label says you are.

emmaaa · July 2014

When I worked for J Crew I had to explain to people all of the time that our sizes ran big. Also, many of their clothes are supposed to fit more loosely. I have just learned to know my measurements and go by a sizing chart. Vanity sizing doesn't bother me so much. If a woman feels good because she's in a 4 instead of an 8, let her feel god about herself. Even though the number on the tag shouldn't matter, to a lot of people it still does and probably always will.

Now what I hate is when a store is inconsistent through different styles. Old Navy jeans and shorts have different styles like Diva, Flirt, Sweetheart, Rock Star, Boyfriend etc. and each of those fit differently and I have to buy a 4 in one (which NEVER happens, big booty club) and a 10 in another.

emmaaa · July 2014

shrekspeare said:

I don't see an issue at all. They have a market for 000, they're going to sell 000. Why does vanity sizing even matter? Would you feel comfortable knowing what size you 'actually' are? Does anyone really care? I give no fucks if I'm a 4 at Old Navy and a 12 at American Eagle. It does not matter at all.

Would people be this upset if they continued to introduce larger sizes? i.e. if JCrew started carrying an 8x, would we even be having this discussion? Probably not. It would probably be a positive, 'go JCrew!' type of thread instead of a, 'boo JCrew'. 98% of us probably wouldn't fit into either a 000 or an 8x, so what does it even matter?

This is a very good point. Skinny shaming is just as bad as fat shaming.

Peaseblossom55 · July 2014

@CookiePusher I'm the same way really tiny, like I wear a size 10 in children's jeans tiny. It is so hard to try to find dress suits and pants for work. I spend just as much for the alterting as I do for the pants.

As someone who is really tiny though I wonder if this is also opening up their line to people who are a bit on the smaller than average size. It would be nice.

ohannabelle · July 2014

It's honestly crazy how small sizes are being labeled now. I had an old Betsey Johnson dress, from back in the 80s. (Purple cabbage roses to match my purple hair, hooked front bodice and poofy black crinoline petticoat underskirt. I must have looked like Raggedy Ann on crack. For heaven's sake.)

It was a size 5/6 when I bought it. I gave it to my daughter a while ago, and it fit her. She usually wears a 00.

My mom's size 10 and 12s from the 1950s measure out to be aprx. modern size 6.

If sizes keep shrinking like this, I predict that in ten years, my chubby ass will be a minus 5. But not any lighter, in reality.

Cookie Pusher · July 2014

Peaseblossom55 said:

@CookiePusher I'm the same way really tiny, like I wear a size 10 in children's jeans tiny. It is so hard to try to find dress suits and pants for work. I spend just as much for the alterting as I do for the pants.
As someone who is really tiny though I wonder if this is also opening up their line to people who are a bit on the smaller than average size. It would be nice.

From what I've read, that was the original intent. The Asian market has been clamoring for smaller sizes since, as a whole, we tend to be smaller than other races. Our body proportions are also very different so alterations are rarely as simple as just getting something shortened. For pants, the women in my family are short but require a higher rise (no low-riders for us, they ride up the crotch) so petite lengths do not fit us well at all - we have to get regular length pants but those rarely go down to a 0 so it becomes a matter of hemming AND having them taken in at the hips and waist since those are always too big for us. Having the smaller sizes available outside of the petite fit range will help a lot of people.

Peaseblossom55 · July 2014

Cookie Pusher said:

Peaseblossom55 said:

@CookiePusher I'm the same way really tiny, like I wear a size 10 in children's jeans tiny. It is so hard to try to find dress suits and pants for work. I spend just as much for the alterting as I do for the pants.
As someone who is really tiny though I wonder if this is also opening up their line to people who are a bit on the smaller than average size. It would be nice.

From what I've read, that was the original intent. The Asian market has been clamoring for smaller sizes since, as a whole, we tend to be smaller than other races. Our body proportions are also very different so alterations are rarely as simple as just getting something shortened. For pants, the women in my family are short but require a higher rise (no low-riders for us, they ride up the crotch) so petite lengths do not fit us well at all - we have to get regular length pants but those rarely go down to a 0 so it becomes a matter of hemming AND having them taken in at the hips and waist since those are always too big for us. Having the smaller sizes available outside of the petite fit range will help a lot of people.

I hope widening the range of petite fitting clothes is their goal. Anytime I get pants altered I need the hem and the waist to be taken in too. It's always a big pain in the ass. Luckily I have a good tailor.

Cookie Pusher · July 2014

Peaseblossom55 said:
I hope widening the range of petite fitting clothes is their goal. Anytime I get pants altered I need the hem and the waist to be taken in too. It's always a big pain in the ass. Luckily I have a good tailor.

I can't lie, I'm really excited to see how the new size will fit. I want pants that will fit my flat butt and tiny waist! lol

Peaseblossom55 · July 2014

Cookie Pusher said:

Peaseblossom55 said:
I hope widening the range of petite fitting clothes is their goal. Anytime I get pants altered I need the hem and the waist to be taken in too. It's always a big pain in the ass. Luckily I have a good tailor.

I can't lie, I'm really excited to see how the new size will fit. I want pants that will fit my flat butt and tiny waist! lol

Me too! I just hope they make enough. I tend to have problems even finding some of the 0 sizes in stores.

Cookie Pusher · July 2014

Peaseblossom55 said:
Me too! I just hope they make enough. I tend to have problems even finding some of the 0 sizes in stores.

I used to fight with my buyer all the time when I worked in retail. Typically, most stores order 1 or 2 of the smallest and largest sizes, concentrating most of their inventory on 8/10/12. Our order sheets usually looked like this:

0 - 1, if the brand even carried that size

2 - 1

4 - 2

6 - 4

8 - 8

10- 8

12 - 8

14 - 4

16 - 2

The one of the few things I miss about working in retail is how I would have the opportunity to hide all the size 0 stuff when it came in!

Marzipan13 · July 2014

Good God, I can't even imagine being a 000. Not fat shaming / skinny shaming, but holy moly! That's incredible! I've been a size 8 since high school, and I've only learned to love it in recent years.

Cookie Pusher · July 2014

Marzipan13 said:

Good God, I can't even imagine being a 000. Not fat shaming / skinny shaming, but holy moly! That's incredible! I've been a size 8 since high school, and I've only learned to love it in recent years.

I'm 4'10" - everything is fairly proportionate, I just stopped growing when I was 11 when everyone else was starting to hit growth spurts. Just imagine what how big an an average 10 or 11 year old is, and that's how big I am. Doesn't seem as tiny when you think of it being a kid size, does it?

Senecaf · July 2014

I think vanity sizing is silly and wastes a lot of time.
I'm another small person here. Finding adult suiting in small sizes is almost impossible, I hope some more little little pieces become available here. Vanity sizing leads to me ordering a size and then it arrives too big. I really should just go by measuments.

kaos16 · July 2014

cwradford said:

The vanity sizing only bugs me because I am small but tall instead of short and tiny. Most size zero clothes are made to fit women who are 5'5" or shorter, at 5'8" its a PITA to find jeans or pants long enough for me that also fit my waist.

I'm a 2 in bridal but I'm a 0 to 00 most other places. Unfortunately nobody has figured out that they need to make pants in those sizes that also fit tall people. I hate having to go in the store try on the pants to figure out what size waist I need and then I have to order the longs or extra longs off line (if they even have them). I went to the store because I wanted to buy pants in person.

I HATE SHOPPING its very frustrating.

I have the EXACT same problem. . . I have actually had employees (at Jcrew ironically enough) tell me that I don't need the tall, that the regular length will fit me just fine. . . . then I walk out of the fitting room in essentially capris. No, I was right!!

Simky906 · July 2014

I just think women's sizing in general is so silly. In my closet I have a couple dresses that are size 0 and a couple skirts that are 8's, plus everything in between. It drives me nuts remembering which size I am at which store. I too would love if women's clothing went by actual measurements.

J Crew new sizing - 000

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