Anybody feel like knowing etiquette makes you more sensitive?

TerriHugg · July 2014

This is meant to be a light hearted thread... Anyway, we all know I'm not the most etiquette savvy person around. However, I do know and understand etiquette partly because of this board. That could be a good thing and bad thing. One reason is because I feel like it made me a bit sensitive to things that never bothered me before. For example, dh and I received an invitation to my aunt and uncle's 40th wedding anniversary. The wedding did state a dress code but that doesn't really bother me, especially since they were asking everyone to wear all white. What did bother me was the fact that the terms, "no gifts please" was written on the bottom. Normally, I wouldn't care about such a thing. But because I now know it shouldn't be done, I was somewhat bothered by it and dh didn't understand why. So I explained to him that learning etiquette and being on the board has taught me that it's improper to state "no gifts on the invitations." While he understood, he then went on to say, "but knowing etiquette has now made you sensitive to things that are really done harmlessly and with no mal-intent. You are now getting offended and side eyeing things that really doesn't effect you negatively in anyway. You can still go to the party and have a good time and stating no gifts won't stop that. And you know, had you not joined that forum and learned that it was wrong to say, you wouldn't even care about a line stating no gifts." In a way, I had to agree with him. Yes, it's good to know and practice good etiquette so you know you are a good host to your guests, but it certainly isn't worth side eyeing and getting pissed about stuff that normally wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Anyway one else feel like knowing etiquette has made you understand more about being a good host but more sensitive to things you normally wouldn't care about? Again, I'm writing this with innocence and just wanted to have a good, light hearted conversation.

beachyone15 · July 2014

I agree with this. Maybe I should have stayed blissfully unaware...j/k

photokitty · July 2014

Most of the things that annoy me after joining TK, annoyed me before I found out the reason my annoyance was complete valid based on etiquette. KWIM??

The ones that didn't annoy me before, still don't. Like printed address or bridesmaids gifts that are for the wedding (but if asked I say you should buy a gift like shopping for their birthday unrelated to wedding). I guess I know why it's rude now, but it doesn't bother me still.

TerriHugg · July 2014

That post was meant to have paragraphs... Don't really know why The knot posted it that way and won't let me edit!

Senecaf · July 2014

What @photokitty‌ said. I am still not really bothered by the things I didn't realize before. I'm not particularly offended by b listing or even PPDs. But cash/ticket bars have always and will always continue to bother me. Standing for ceremonies, pot lucks, gaps and some other things.
You can normally tell when the host just doesn't know better and when it is simply done for their convenience at the expense of the guests. That I don't like.

mysticl · July 2014

See, I have the opposite reaction to that invite. The "no gifts" wouldn't bother me. The dress code though would bother me, especially something so specific that it would mean I have to go shopping for a special outfit to wear to their party and never wear again (not even my wedding gown was all white). So I guess that whether or not it really bothers me is based on if it has a negative impact on me or is just something I might comment to DH about and then move on.

I have made comments to friends that certain things are "often considered rude" whether or not it actually bugs me because I would hate to see other people get upset about what they were thinking about.

annathy03 · July 2014

Kind of. I never batted an eye at "no gifts please" before, because everyone I knew that did that didn't mean "BRING CASH BITCHES" they meant "we just want to enjoy your company". Now I side-eye it a bit, but if I'm close enough to know they mean the second I'm not going to hold it against them either

Cash bars and not having a seat always bugged me. I still don't side-eye anything that doesn't affect the guests, like printing addresses onto the envelopes.

lyndausvi · July 2014

photokitty said:

Most of the things that annoy me after joining TK, annoyed me before I found out the reason my annoyance was complete valid based on etiquette. KWIM??

The ones that didn't annoy me before, still don't. Like printed address or bridesmaids gifts that are for the wedding (but if asked I say you should buy a gift like shopping for their birthday unrelated to wedding). I guess I know why it's rude now, but it doesn't bother me still.

This is me.

Cash bars, not enough seats, not having at least the minimum amount of food for the time of day, gaps, not inviting a S, tiered reception have always bothered me.

Groom wearing a tux at noon? Couldn't care less Labels on the envelope will get you a side-eye for a 1/2 second then I'm over it. Even addressing me as Mrs Hislastname when I have a different last name doesn't bother me (mostly because I do not think people are doing it in malice). No gifts on invites doesn't bother me. However, mentioning cash or registration info does.

NYCMercedes · July 2014

No gifts does bother me as I wouldn't think an anni party called for gifts. It's presumptuous. Dress code really, really bothers me. Tuxes before 6:00, well meh.

Simply Fated · July 2014

It doesn't make me more sensitive. Maybe more aware, though?
Like pp said, there were some things that have always rubbed me the wrong way and in some cases I now know why.

chibiyui · July 2014

I don't think it's made me more sensitive. I have commented on here and other boards that some faux pas I judge harder if I don't like you as much. I.E. I won't hold my BFF's dollar dance against her (but also would not participate), but Mom and I will bitch-bond over a cousin doing one.

I also agree with PP's that I'm opposite of you, "No gifts" wouldn't have bothered me, but a dress code? All white?

beethery · July 2014

More sensitive? Naw.

More determined to put my foot down in a stompy fashion against stuff FILs or my mom wants FI and I to partake of that is flagrantly against polite-person etiquette?

Yes.

TerriHugg · July 2014

Hmm I can understand why people would be pissed about the dress code. But I really do like it when people tell me exactly the formality etc on invitations. I just hate the thought of showing up somewhere and being over or underdressed.

And I actually liked the all white theme. I thought it was fun. But dh and I also didn't have to by anything new because their party is just in a community park so we all just wore nice white sun dresses, white polo shirts, etc.

AddieCake · July 2014

Most of the things that bother me bothered me before TK. A couple are new, like Honeymoon registries b/c prior to TK I didn't know about the fees, etc. Some things never bothered me, started to bother me after being here awhile, and then I realized I am still not honestly bothered by them after all and have changed my position and how I respond on certain topics.

kmmssg · July 2014

Yeah, I got more sensitive and now I am trying to knock some of that off.

I wanted my girls weddings to be dress right dress. I wanted our etiquette to be top notch (and to the best of my almost 10 years of knowledge on here, it was) and wanted our guests to leave feeling cared for. To the best of my knowledge we accomplished the mission.

However, there are things done in our circle that truly do not offend most people I know. Like "adult reception to follow", registry cards in the invitation (bugs the crap out of me), and having a master and mistress of ceremonies. I know in most parts that is unheard of and I have seen the question on here a few times and most people want to know what the OP is talking about.

Master/Mistress of Ceremonies keeps everything running smoothly and coordinates the day. I did it once way back when and was so freaking exhausted I wanted to die. I would never ever in a million years ask anyone to do that, but I know a TON of people who are so honored and touched to be asked.

Around here jewelry for the wedding is almost always the gift given by brides to their BMs. I was so happy my girls didn't do that and they have mentioned having nice jewelry from wedding they were in that isn't their taste and they don't wear it.

I have come to the point where I look at the intent of the offender. I can promise you that people who have tuxes prior to 6 pm aren't heathens and they aren't trying to offend anyone.

Labels? I used to get in a snit about it but Maggie posted about her feelings on it once and it was a little wake up call that I really didn't need to look for things to bitch about. It is a pretty harmless offense in the scheme of things.

If I saw no gifts please I think my reaction would be that the couple really just wants me to attend and they are thinking of me. It would not offend me.

If I were attending a 2nd wedding reception/AHR I wouldn't give a flying frog's fanny if the bride wore her dress, they cut a wedding cake, or had a first dance. How victimless can you get? How does that really affect me? It doesn't in the least. Quite frankly, I will be at least saying a little prayer that there will be good wedding cake there!

I am all about the intent, and I can't imagine anyone's good intent in asking for cash, lack of seating, lack of a meal at meal time, and huge gaps along with a few other things.

mysticl · July 2014

TerriHugg said:

Hmm I can understand why people would be pissed about the dress code. But I really do like it when people tell me exactly the formality etc on invitations. I just hate the thought of showing up somewhere and being over or underdressed.

And I actually liked the all white theme. I thought it was fun. But dh and I also didn't have to by anything new because their party is just in a community park so we all just wore nice white sun dresses, white polo shirts, etc.

A note about formality probably wouldn't bother me too much. However, being told specifically what to wear would annoy the heck out of me. And having everyone dress alike doesn't sound "fun" to me it sounds controlling. So, obviously personal perception plays a key role it our reaction.

FWIW I was always taught it was better to be over dressed than under dressed.

Simply Fated · July 2014

TerriHugg said:
Hmm I can understand why people would be pissed about the dress code. But I really do like it when people tell me exactly the formality etc on invitations. I just hate the thought of showing up somewhere and being over or underdressed.

And I actually liked the all white theme. I thought it was fun. But dh and I also didn't have to by anything new because their party is just in a community park so we all just wore nice white sun dresses, white polo shirts, etc.

I own nothing that is white, except socks. I would be pissed to have to buy an outfit I'd wear literally once. Especially if it was held in a park.

Not to mention that I don't prefer someone instructing me to look like the Stay Puft marsmallow man for a day. It's cruel. I'd decline AND rethink that friendship.

TerriHugg · July 2014

^^^ I'd understand understand declining as it would be an inconvenience to you, but I certainly wouldn't rethink a friendship because they asked everyone to wear white to the party. And I definitely don't think it's cruel. I think it's a bit harsh to rethink a friendship because they asked you to wear white. That seems a bit like overkill to me. Sure decline, but rethink a friendship over it?

If I didn't already own something white and couldn't afford to buy something new I would probably decline as well. But it didn't inconvenience me and my husband and I both own something white.

Anyway, point taken. It's an inconvenience to some people but it wasn't to me so I didn't mind and wish more people would put it on invitations. I don't see the all white request as controlling. I see it as fun - similar to a themed party. (i.e. i've been to 90's themed parties, a halloween party, shorts &stilletos/surfer shorts and guinea t-shirt themed party, etc. )

But that's clearly just me and my family.

misshart00 · July 2014

I was really, really sad to decline my best friends bachelorette party because I didn't own a black dress (the attire dictated in the invitation). It's sad that that was my only reason for declining.

Registries in invitations don't bother me. I've never received a wedding invitation without registry info, but I didn't include it in mine. That's honestly why I think we only got gifts from about 30% of our guests. Not a big deal, but made me wonder if there was a correlation.

TerriHugg · July 2014

misshart00 said:

I was really, really sad to decline my best friends bachelorette party because I didn't own a black dress (the attire dictated in the invitation). It's sad that that was my only reason for declining. Registries in invitations don't bother me. I've never received a wedding invitation without registry info, but I didn't include it in mine. That's honestly why I think we only got gifts from about 30% of our guests. Not a big deal, but made me wonder if there was a correlation.

I totally understand the bolded. I have to agree that it's a flaw of dictating a dress on the invitation. I've actually had to decline invites because I didn't have to wear as well. It's sad and disappointing. But when I do have something wear, I love the idea of themed parties.

misshart00 · July 2014

TerriHugg said:

misshart00 said:

I was really, really sad to decline my best friends bachelorette party because I didn't own a black dress (the attire dictated in the invitation). It's sad that that was my only reason for declining.

Registries in invitations don't bother me. I've never received a wedding invitation without registry info, but I didn't include it in mine. That's honestly why I think we only got gifts from about 30% of our guests. Not a big deal, but made me wonder if there was a correlation.

I totally understand the bolded. I have to agree that it's a flaw of dictating a dress on the invitation. I've actually had to decline invites because I didn't have to wear as well. It's sad and disappointing. But when I do have something wear, I love the idea of themed parties.

See, I'm cool with a themed party. I'd go to that. But a theme party is not a major life event to not miss out on. I feel like there's the difference.

TerriHugg · July 2014

@MissHart00 I can understand that. I guess the reason why I don't see that much of a difference is because whether it is a themed party, all white anniversary party, semi formal cocktail party, casual brunch, etc. there will always be someone who declines the invitation because they don't have something to wear and/or can't afford it. I've done it before even if the invitation didn't include a dress code or specific attire. But I do see where you are coming from.

JCbride2015 · July 2014

Ugh, dictating that all guests wear a certain color is just horrible to me. It's really presumptuous of the couple. No, you aren't Sean Combs and your wedding isn't the White Party.

I think TK has helped me understand why certain things bothered me, but I was always bothered by those things. Ex. Honeyfund just seemed a little off, and after learning about the fees and how the money is just pooled at the end, now I know why.

But I think in general, planning my own wedding while bending over backwards to make our guests comfortable is causing me to get a little more upset over things that would have always bothered me. Ex. I'm a BM in an upcoming wedding with a huge gap and lots of driving to multiple locations for photos. We would love to have photos with the NYC skyline, at our venue, in the woods etc. but there isn't time for all of that. We gave up certain photo locations so our guests don't have to sit through a gap, so it really grinds my gears that this bride has prioritized her photos over her guests' comfort.

theexactlee · July 2014

You can't tell adults what they HAVE to do. You can make suggestions I guess. I don't even know. I mean like No Gifts Please. But telling them what color they have to wear? I absolutely positively have no issues with PPD's. I don't agree that signing papers at a courthouse is your wedding, that's called signing legal documents. It is then up to you as an adult to decide when within that year and how to celebrate. I've never heard of anyone turning their nose up at this until I visited TK. I've know plenty of people who have done it in different states at different ages of my life and people showed up happy as can be to celebrate. My vow renewal invites will include "No Gift Please" or something of that sort. We are also inviting children in circles so some people might have hurt feelings if they don't understand the circles. So I guess my answer is yes. I think that being an active member of this forum can be a double edged sword. But it's also a wonderful place to chat and bounce things off other ladies who are in your position.

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

FI has made similar comments to me, about getting more upset about things now than if I wasn't on TK. But I think it's more like I've become more indignant about them now that I know there IS a rule, and you're breaking it, rather than not having side-eyed it before.

Not everything though. There are some things that bother some Knotties that I truly don't give two shits about.

indianaalum · July 2014

I definitely think there are things that are "poor etiquette" that 90 percent of the world would overlook. To me, those seems silly to be offended by, and I am still not offended by them.

I assume people are doing the best they can.

I did try to avoid etiquette faux pas, but there are many mentioned here daily that I will could care less about if I saw them at other people's weddings.

I still assert, I'd rather go to a wedding with a bar that is "cash" than "dry" (unless I pay for soda, I would side eye that). I know bars are expensive, so I get it. I always carry cash. just in case

I could care less about PPD. I figure they are still spending a fortune to host me, so why do I care. It is still a party to celebrate their marriage (my BF did this and it never dawned on me to even be offended...seriously..never dawned on me and I traveled across the country to do it)

Gaps never bothered me. It was the norm around here. I didn't have one because I hear people think are bad, but it doesn't really bother me.

I had tuxes before 6 and I could care less...

I received "jewelry" in almost every wedding I went to. Never dawned on me to care. Still don't care. I didnt accept being in their wedding to receive a gift. Would do it even if they gave me nothing.

I guess in general. I love my friends and family and will overlook most things.

now, things I DO remember being annoyed about at a wedding? Some of these aren't "technically" against etiquette, but were still inconvenient on some levels

Driving to a destination wedding where it was a destination for everyone (as in different part of the country for EVERYONE) BUT Bride/groom and then had no food. I really only remember them having wine (which I dont like). I am not sure they even had cake or punch or pop. Wedding was beautiful and glad I went, but I think you should feed your guests an ENTIRE meal if every single person had to travel out of state for it.

Dollar dances are odd to me. Tacky. I guess if I know you do it because of a "cultural" reason, I will forgive you, but if you are not of THAT culture, I will side eye you.

Oh, and again, not against etiquette but this one bugged me. I went to a wedding where there was dancing between every "course" which meant dinner didn't get served until like 10:30. My original plan was to eat and leave after dinner because I was alone (and had nobody to dance with). I also only knew bride/groom. It lent itself to alot of downtime sitting at a table alone. It was horrible. It also meant I had to stay later and had a long drive home. Not ideal.

kmmssg · July 2014

Oh, I forgot about PPD's. I attended 4 that occured due to deployments early in the war. We ALL knew they JOP'd prior to the deployment, and at least 2 of the couples had contracts with all their vendors who were kind enough to let them move the date to post deployment. All 4 were extremely well attended by families, friends, and fellow Soldiers and there was no snarky gossip at the tables about how scandalous the whole affair was.

Quite frankly, we were thrilled our buddy made it home safely and wanted to celebrate with him (I was friends with the groom each time). As long as there is no lying involved and everyone knows up front it is a vow renewal, I couldn't care less.

The motivation for at least 2 of the JOPs was to ensure the wife would be able to make all decisions, be the beneficiary to any benefits in a worst case scenario, and to be able to travel to Germany in case the Soldier was injured to be with their loved one. Uncle Sam will send three ( I think it is still three) immediate family to the base where the injured Soldier is. Fiance? Not gonna go on Uncle Sam's dime. I know these details because my buddies talked to me about it.

Cash bars - I would never ever have one at an event I am hosting, but I am far happier to find a cash bar than no bar.

theexactlee · July 2014

I actually attended a Blogger Conference at Disney and one of the huge sessions was hosted by Carly Roney and David Tuttera and she talked about PPD's (she didn't call them PPD's) and Vow Renewals and had nothing but wonderful things to say about both. Then we were surprised by a couple renewing their vows on the same day they got married one year before in the Wedding Pavilion on that very day. The bride wore a huge dress and had 3 bridesmaids and the groom had 3 groomsman.

PS: If you make me pay for soda I will send you an invoice

RebeccaB88 · July 2014

I wouldn't say sensitive is the right word, but yes, I do notice the littlest things and I do side eye a lot of things that other people might not be bothered by. However, I was raised in a very formal family, and was started on etiquette lessons as early as I can remember. Even our standard Tuesday night dinner table at home had more than one fork, and we were expected to use the correct one. Our behavior, what we wore, even the way we stood at an event (foot position, arms neutral, straight back, shoulders back) was prescribed. (I'm not saying we were little soldiers all the time, we just went to things where we were expected to hold up a certain standard. We still ran around and played like normal kids.)

Multiple times in the past year my mom has pursed her lips, shook her head, and said 'I just don't like this new way of doing things, it's not right and it doesn't respect anyone'. I think she's right. Cash bars, registry cards in wedding invitations, display showers, emailed thank you's (or none at all), all have gotten this treatment recently.

Really the only thing that doesn't bother me are at home receptions. As long as you don't re-enact your wedding, and you're properly hosting everyone, have whatever kind of party you want and it's good. You don't need an excuse to have a great party.

I'll admit I side-eye things that don't hurt anyone, just because I expect people to know better. It's just that, though, a side-eye, not a decline or a rethink the friendship, just a 'bless her heart' moment plus an eye roll. Tuxes before 6? Bless your heart. Labels on your invitations? Bless your heart.

The big stuff - gaps, cash bars, money dances, no meal at mealtime, PPDs, long drives between venues, not inviting SO's, tiered events, not just a bless your heart. Just offensive all the way around, and I just can't grasp how anyone would not find these rude.

Butterflyz419 · July 2014

Before I came to TK I never knew that maybe one out of the dozen weddings I've been to was completely "properly" hosted. Gaps, PPD's, cash bars, tiered receptions, generic BM gifts, improper invitations, invited without my SO, and I loved every single one of those weddings. I never knew that I should have been rethinking my relationship with these people for their unbelievable rudeness. Some of those things I knew were technically no-no's, some I didn't previously. But I spent far more time side-eyeing the guests who thought jeans or skirts so short you better hope nobody breathes too hard near you were an appropriate clothing choice than any of the choices the couple made. Now that I've been reading TK for a while...I now know more of the "rules" but if anything reading TK and planning a wedding of my own has made me more defensive of those who break them, because in the end, I believe that in over 95% of cases the couples are doing the best they can in whatever their circumstances are to balance a myriad of varying concerns and desires and expectations. For me weddings are wonderful and joyous and beautiful occasions and are never a waste of a day or about me as a guest ever regardless of the details of the reception.

Didgeridoo · July 2014

I've always viewed etiquette as something you learn so YOU don't offend anyone, not something to judge other people about. If someone else isn't following etiquette it doesn't matter, because etiquette only governs how you conduct yourself.

For example I'm glad I learned that putting "and guest" on an invitation for unmarried couples where I only am familiar with one 'half' of the couple can offend some people. It let me know to go out of the way to get their names right and put them on the invite to avoid hurt feelings.

However if I received an invitation listing me as a 'guest' instead of by name, I would not side-eye it because the role of the guest is to graciously attend a party and thank the host for whatever is provided.

Anybody feel like knowing etiquette makes you more sensitive?

Re: Anybody feel like knowing etiquette makes you more sensitive?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards