Dreadful people leaving kids in hot cars :(

JCbride2015 · July 2014

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

JCBride2015...that is also what I said IN MY POSTS.

So... we agree? why are you yelling at me then?

You were saying nobody was agreeing with you that sometimes people do it on purpose. And I quoted people who agreed with you.

No need to be so shrill.

mysticl · July 2014

JCbride2015 said:

CaitTDid23 said:

This is something that I am legitimately terrified of doing. I have the worst habit of getting in a routine and completely spacing when it changes. I have driven to the wrong apartment at least once every time I moved. When I was driving an afterschool bus, if we changed the route I routinely had to detour to fix it when I went the wrong way. I went to schools when I had no kids there to pick up that day. When my personal car's gearshift was in a different place than the bus's gearshift, I confused the locations and would try to shift where there was no shifter. I forget to bring things in to the house, I leave things in the house when I'm supposed to take them. The necklace FI gave me when he proposed? I forgot it this morning because I was in a rush.

I am so afraid this will happen. I am not even sure if the shoe trick will help me.

Attempts have been made to get safety devices to market, but the companies tend to find there isn't enough demand because people think it can't happen to them. Just being aware is probably going to make it less likely to happen to you. If you accept it could happen and you're afraid, you'll be more likely to check and be mindful.

Also, companies don't want the liability involved in producing them. They face a lawsuit if the device fails and a child dies because it didn't properly alert the parent(s).

JCbride2015 · July 2014

mysticl said:

JCbride2015 said:

CaitTDid23 said:

This is something that I am legitimately terrified of doing. I have the worst habit of getting in a routine and completely spacing when it changes. I have driven to the wrong apartment at least once every time I moved. When I was driving an afterschool bus, if we changed the route I routinely had to detour to fix it when I went the wrong way. I went to schools when I had no kids there to pick up that day. When my personal car's gearshift was in a different place than the bus's gearshift, I confused the locations and would try to shift where there was no shifter. I forget to bring things in to the house, I leave things in the house when I'm supposed to take them. The necklace FI gave me when he proposed? I forgot it this morning because I was in a rush.

I am so afraid this will happen. I am not even sure if the shoe trick will help me.

Attempts have been made to get safety devices to market, but the companies tend to find there isn't enough demand because people think it can't happen to them. Just being aware is probably going to make it less likely to happen to you. If you accept it could happen and you're afraid, you'll be more likely to check and be mindful.

Also, companies don't want the liability involved in producing them. They face a lawsuit if the device fails and a child dies because it didn't properly alert the parent(s).

Yes, I have thought about this-- hey hey bar studying. Strict products liability!

I wonder if a "good samaritan" exception might be made for these kinds of devices. Or a limitation on damages. Surely having these devices on the market would be more helpful than not, even if sadly one malfunctions. It would still prevent more deaths.

Also from a legal causation standpoint, the companies can argue that the device flaw is only a secondary cause to the parent's memory lapse anyway. So really it was the parent who caused the death in a legal sense, not the device.

MrsDeRuyter87 · July 2014

I think you are taking things a little close to heart. I was just responding to you directly. also I was never yelling or upset with you. That's what happens when people read words, emotions are not displayed properly.

mysticl · July 2014

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

I think you are taking things a little close to heart. I was just responding to you directly. also I was never yelling or upset with you. That's what happens when people read words, emotions are not displayed properly.

All caps=yelling

JCbride2015 · July 2014

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

I think you are taking things a little close to heart. I was just responding to you directly. also I was never yelling or upset with you. That's what happens when people read words, emotions are not displayed properly.

All caps is INTERNET YELLING.

Chill out.

MrsDeRuyter87 · July 2014

I'm chill...and sorry i didn't know that caps was yelling...I assumed I was emphasizing with my capital letters. Again...you take things wayyyy to seriously.

ashley8918 · July 2014

JCbride2015 said:

CaitTDid23 said:

This is something that I am legitimately terrified of doing. I have the worst habit of getting in a routine and completely spacing when it changes. I have driven to the wrong apartment at least once every time I moved. When I was driving an afterschool bus, if we changed the route I routinely had to detour to fix it when I went the wrong way. I went to schools when I had no kids there to pick up that day. When my personal car's gearshift was in a different place than the bus's gearshift, I confused the locations and would try to shift where there was no shifter. I forget to bring things in to the house, I leave things in the house when I'm supposed to take them. The necklace FI gave me when he proposed? I forgot it this morning because I was in a rush.

I am so afraid this will happen. I am not even sure if the shoe trick will help me.

Attempts have been made to get safety devices to market, but the companies tend to find there isn't enough demand because people think it can't happen to them. Just being aware is probably going to make it less likely to happen to you. If you accept it could happen and you're afraid, you'll be more likely to check and be mindful.

There have also been attempts to have car companies to have some sort of safety feature to prevent this come standard in cars. No one will agree t it because of the liability involved. What if it malfunctions and the alarm (or whatever) doesn't go off? Then the car company is blamed for the death of a child.

mysticl · July 2014

kat1114 said:

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

Look I'm not saying it doesn't happen...all I am saying is that it says something when we remember to grab a cell phone but not our child. I think people are using the "i forgot" excuse as a cop out because they knew they left their kid in the car on purpose to get a hair cut or whatever. Do all parents who leave their kid in the car do it on purpose...no of course not mistakes happen but it shouldn't happen this much.

I think you should really read the Washington Post article posted earlier. Yes, there are definitely people like the Georgia dad who googled "how long does it take for a kid to die in a hot car", who do it on purpose. However, the Washington Post article did a great job of showing how good, loving, caring parents had one lapse of memory that lead to a tragic result.

I've done that. Not so I could kill my kid but so I knew the information. Until a few days ago I lived in GA (about a mile from Florida) and it was really freaking hot there. I wanted to know for things like pumping gas or sitting in the bank parking lot filling out bills, etc. Here's the basic information I found. When the external temperature is 75 degrees an infant left in a car can be dead in 15 minutes. The hotter it is outside the shorter that time frame. And in our part of GA 75 happens in the winter. So when I pumped gas I made sure to put windows down. When I sat in the bank parking lot I immediately turned the car on to get the AC running.

I took my son home to visit my mom last summer and it happened to be in 90s there that day. She picked us up from the airport and drove to a convenience store so I could get a drink. She was going to stay in the car with DS while I went inside. As we were pulling into the parking lot I'm telling her that information. She then promptly turns the car off. I look at her and go "So what I'm saying is leave the car running with the AC on" and she turned it back on. My mother would never intentionally harm my child but she quite simply didn't know and he could have been dead by the time I got back to the car because it took me a little time to get something and to check out.

ashley8918 · July 2014

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

More often than not children are left in the car when parents run errands like hair cuts etc not going to work and forgetting the drop a child off. You people also need to learn to read because I think I have stated at least 3 times that I am not saying it doesn't happen by mistake too. That is all.

Where is the data that supports the bolded?

mysticl · July 2014

ashley8918 said:

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

More often than not children are left in the car when parents run errands like hair cuts etc not going to work and forgetting the drop a child off. You people also need to learn to read because I think I have stated at least 3 times that I am not saying it doesn't happen by mistake too. That is all.

Where is the data that supports the bolded?

I'm curious about this too because just about every case I've read about is work related.

simcal18 · July 2014

mysticl said:

kat1114 said:

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

Look I'm not saying it doesn't happen...all I am saying is that it says something when we remember to grab a cell phone but not our child. I think people are using the "i forgot" excuse as a cop out because they knew they left their kid in the car on purpose to get a hair cut or whatever. Do all parents who leave their kid in the car do it on purpose...no of course not mistakes happen but it shouldn't happen this much.

I think you should really read the Washington Post article posted earlier. Yes, there are definitely people like the Georgia dad who googled "how long does it take for a kid to die in a hot car", who do it on purpose. However, the Washington Post article did a great job of showing how good, loving, caring parents had one lapse of memory that lead to a tragic result.

I've done that. Not so I could kill my kid but so I knew the information. Until a few days ago I lived in GA (about a mile from Florida) and it was really freaking hot there. I wanted to know for things like pumping gas or sitting in the bank parking lot filling out bills, etc. Here's the basic information I found. When the external temperature is 75 degrees an infant left in a car can be dead in 15 minutes. The hotter it is outside the shorter that time frame. And in our part of GA 75 happens in the winter. So when I pumped gas I made sure to put windows down. When I sat in the bank parking lot I immediately turned the car on to get the AC running.

I took my son home to visit my mom last summer and it happened to be in 90s there that day. She picked us up from the airport and drove to a convenience store so I could get a drink. She was going to stay in the car with DS while I went inside. As we were pulling into the parking lot I'm telling her that information. She then promptly turns the car off. I look at her and go "So what I'm saying is leave the car running with the AC on" and she turned it back on. My mother would never intentionally harm my child but she quite simply didn't know and he could have been dead by the time I got back to the car because it took me a little time to get something and to check out.

The Justin Ross Harris case is fascinating. I heard/read all the news reports and assumed like most others did that he must have left his kid in the car intentionally. Turns out prosecutors may have been exaggerating the evidence that they had against him--i.e., surveillance camera footage was misrepresented, and instead of Googling information, he apparently was just clicking on clickbait-type articles that were coming up as he surfed the web. To me it's really unclear what really happened, but the link below discusses how some of the evidence may have been misrepresented, and if he DID leave his child in the car unintentionally, the idea that he may be getting railroaded after losing his son is heartwrenching to me:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/07/21/questions-police-account-child-death-hot-car/fNCwGu2GIj9KZefvm40BBP/story.html

amakayeb · July 2014

Most of the cases that have led to death that I've seen have been work related.

But there are always stories on the news about how police were called when a kid was left (intentionally--not to cause harm, but to avoid taking them into the store) in a vehicle at Wal-Mart or whatever.

I'm going to go out on limb and guess that these cases are less likely to be fatal because people are constantly going back and forth past the car, and thus there's a greater chance of someone seeing the child quickly.

mysticl · July 2014

bostonbride2015 said:

mysticl said:

kat1114 said:

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

Look I'm not saying it doesn't happen...all I am saying is that it says something when we remember to grab a cell phone but not our child. I think people are using the "i forgot" excuse as a cop out because they knew they left their kid in the car on purpose to get a hair cut or whatever. Do all parents who leave their kid in the car do it on purpose...no of course not mistakes happen but it shouldn't happen this much.

I think you should really read the Washington Post article posted earlier. Yes, there are definitely people like the Georgia dad who googled "how long does it take for a kid to die in a hot car", who do it on purpose. However, the Washington Post article did a great job of showing how good, loving, caring parents had one lapse of memory that lead to a tragic result.

I've done that. Not so I could kill my kid but so I knew the information. Until a few days ago I lived in GA (about a mile from Florida) and it was really freaking hot there. I wanted to know for things like pumping gas or sitting in the bank parking lot filling out bills, etc. Here's the basic information I found. When the external temperature is 75 degrees an infant left in a car can be dead in 15 minutes. The hotter it is outside the shorter that time frame. And in our part of GA 75 happens in the winter. So when I pumped gas I made sure to put windows down. When I sat in the bank parking lot I immediately turned the car on to get the AC running.

I took my son home to visit my mom last summer and it happened to be in 90s there that day. She picked us up from the airport and drove to a convenience store so I could get a drink. She was going to stay in the car with DS while I went inside. As we were pulling into the parking lot I'm telling her that information. She then promptly turns the car off. I look at her and go "So what I'm saying is leave the car running with the AC on" and she turned it back on. My mother would never intentionally harm my child but she quite simply didn't know and he could have been dead by the time I got back to the car because it took me a little time to get something and to check out.
The Justin Ross Harris case is fascinating. I heard/read all the news reports and assumed like most others did that he must have left his kid in the car intentionally. Turns out prosecutors may have been exaggerating the evidence that they had against him--i.e., surveillance camera footage was misrepresented, and instead of Googling information, he apparently was just clicking on clickbait-type articles that were coming up as he surfed the web. To me it's really unclear what really happened, but the link below discusses how some of the evidence may have been misrepresented, and if he DID leave his child in the car unintentionally, the idea that he may be getting railroaded after losing his son is heartwrenching to me:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/07/21/questions-police-account-child-death-hot-car/fNCwGu2GIj9KZefvm40BBP/story.html

I need to read that. I haven't been keeping up with the case. I know it was looking bad there for a little while.

kat1114 · July 2014

mysticl said:

kat1114 said:

MrsDeRuyter87 said:

Look I'm not saying it doesn't happen...all I am saying is that it says something when we remember to grab a cell phone but not our child. I think people are using the "i forgot" excuse as a cop out because they knew they left their kid in the car on purpose to get a hair cut or whatever. Do all parents who leave their kid in the car do it on purpose...no of course not mistakes happen but it shouldn't happen this much.

I think you should really read the Washington Post article posted earlier. Yes, there are definitely people like the Georgia dad who googled "how long does it take for a kid to die in a hot car", who do it on purpose. However, the Washington Post article did a great job of showing how good, loving, caring parents had one lapse of memory that lead to a tragic result.

I've done that. Not so I could kill my kid but so I knew the information. Until a few days ago I lived in GA (about a mile from Florida) and it was really freaking hot there. I wanted to know for things like pumping gas or sitting in the bank parking lot filling out bills, etc. Here's the basic information I found. When the external temperature is 75 degrees an infant left in a car can be dead in 15 minutes. The hotter it is outside the shorter that time frame. And in our part of GA 75 happens in the winter. So when I pumped gas I made sure to put windows down. When I sat in the bank parking lot I immediately turned the car on to get the AC running.

I took my son home to visit my mom last summer and it happened to be in 90s there that day. She picked us up from the airport and drove to a convenience store so I could get a drink. She was going to stay in the car with DS while I went inside. As we were pulling into the parking lot I'm telling her that information. She then promptly turns the car off. I look at her and go "So what I'm saying is leave the car running with the AC on" and she turned it back on. My mother would never intentionally harm my child but she quite simply didn't know and he could have been dead by the time I got back to the car because it took me a little time to get something and to check out.

*SITB

That was a bad example I picked, because you are absolutely right, there are legitimate reasons why someone would google that. Although with the Georgia dad, considering the totality of the circumstances in that case, I feel like he was googling it for a more malicious intent.

amakayeb · July 2014

The article linked above explains that he did not google it...he clicked on a link on reddit or something that showed how quickly a car can get hot.

kat1114 · July 2014

Thanks for the link to that article @BostonBride2015. I hadn't heard much about the case lately, and the article definitely points out some major flaws in the case. I do still think there are some very suspicious facts. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in a trial.

ashley8918 · July 2014

amakayeb said:

The article linked above explains that he did not google it...he clicked on a link on reddit or something that showed how quickly a car can get hot.

Meh. I read the article, and I didn't find it all that compelling. Who/what was the source of all of this information?

JCbride2015 · July 2014

ashley8918 said:

amakayeb said:

The article linked above explains that he did not google it...he clicked on a link on reddit or something that showed how quickly a car can get hot.

Meh. I read the article, and I didn't find it all that compelling. Who/what was the source of all of this information?

I still think it seems like the guy did it on purpose, but who knows.

It looks like this reporter just got an interview with the defendant's brother and that's where most of the new information is coming from.

mysticl · July 2014

amakayeb said:

Most of the cases that have led to death that I've seen have been work related.

But there are always stories on the news about how police were called when a kid was left (intentionally--not to cause harm, but to avoid taking them into the store) in a vehicle at Wal-Mart or whatever.

I'm going to go out on limb and guess that these cases are less likely to be fatal because people are constantly going back and forth past the car, and thus there's a greater chance of someone seeing the child quickly.

And I can totally understand what leads people to make that choice. I'm not saying it's the right choice, because it isn't, I just understand how some people make it. Everything takes a million times longer when you have a kid and there is part of you that thinks "this could go so much faster if I didn't take him/he in". So if you couple that with someone not fully understanding the risks you can see how they make the decision. I think it's fairly obvious that leaving the kid in the car all day is a bad idea but until I had a child and started looking this stuff up I had no idea just how quickly death could happen and I bet a lot of other people don't either. So it seems like just running into the gas station to pre-pay isn't that big of a deal. Unless you get distracted by buying a snack, or talking to a friend, or there is a huge line and before you know it you've been gone 20 minutes. Or thinking that it's not that hot out without realizing just how hot it gets inside the car.

Dreadful people leaving kids in hot cars :(

Re: Dreadful people leaving kids in hot cars :(

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