Touchy touchy touchy subject... But I'm still gonna rant...

Re: Touchy touchy touchy subject... But I'm still gonna rant...

• theartistformerlyknownas member

  

  August 2014

  I totally agree with you. We should be outraged whenever a human life is taken. Every life is valuable and our whole society, regardless of race, could stand to display a lot more patience, compassion, and respect.

  
  

  (ps HI fellow Detroiter!)

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• lyndausvi mod

  

  August 2014

  ::golf claps::

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  

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• penguin44 member

  

  August 2014

  I agree that we need to value all lives.
  
  People are upset because a police officer shot an unarmed man. I disagree with everyone that is seeing it as a race issue at all. We obviously don't know what happened since the investigation just started though.
  
  My facebook page is blowing up with how police are currently taking action in Ferguson. I am embarrassed to be from STL right now. The way the riots are happening and the way the police are responding is not okay.

  

  
  

  
  

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• emmaaa mod

  

  August 2014

  I completely agree with your post. I want to know why there isn't outrage every time a death at the hands of another person happens? No matter the race, religion, sex, gender, what-have-you, every life is important and worth mourning.

  
  

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• DanikaMarie0227 member

  

  August 2014

  lolo883 said:

  I totally agree with you. We should be outraged whenever a human life is taken. Every life is valuable and our whole society, regardless of race, could stand to display a lot more patience, compassion, and respect.

  
  

  This. I feel the same way. Well said!

  

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• climbingsingle member

  

  August 2014

  I agree with your post. Well said.

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• mysticl member

  

  August 2014

  lolo883 said:

  I totally agree with you. We should be outraged whenever a human life is taken. Every life is valuable and our whole society, regardless of race, could stand to display a lot more patience, compassion, and respect.

  
  

  (ps HI fellow Detroiter!)

  I agree.  The outrage should be because a person was murdered.  

  

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• daria24 member

  

  August 2014

  While I understand your argument, I think the reason people are upset is not simply because a white man killed a POC, but because it was yet another example of the police killing an unarmed person, who almost always is a POC. This is about a systemic problem that exists all across the US, not just with POC being killed, but unfairly targeted during traffic stops, drug busts, all the way through prosecution and sentencing. 

  
  

  I just think it's different discussions-one about an abuse by the government, the other about crime between citizens.

  
  

  And while in Detroit there might not be vigils/walks/protests against black on black crime, I have seen them in other cities. They just don't get the kind of attention a Trayvon Martin-type incident does. 

  

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• emmyg65 member

  

  August 2014 edited August 2014

  It's not simply an issue of a man losing his life. It's an issue of police brutality (or overreaction, if you want to use a less inflammatory term) and institutionalized racism.

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• beachyone15 member

  

  August 2014

  Not saying I like it, but I think the media plays a big role in what issues/events are emphasized.
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
  

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• lc07 member

  

  August 2014

  I agree that all lives lost should be valued. I think the outrage is over suspected discrimination to the point that it causes people to murder more so than just a murder occurring.

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  August 2014

  
  

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• AprilH81 member

  

  August 2014

  The shooting of an unarmed person of any color is horrible (as is any other murder).

  
  

  What I don't understand is how an outcry of anger (sounds as if it is justified) turns into rioting and looting?  Who thinks "Hey, the cops just shot a black/white/asian man, lets go steal a TV and tennis shoes."?

  
  

  Organize a peaceful march, petition the police for an investigation, ask the Governor to step in, take LEGAL and PEACEFUL steps to get to the bottom of what happened. The actions of the current mob are sad and discraceful in my opinion.
  

  

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• sarawifenow member

  

  August 2014

  You go girl! Very well said! 

  

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• thisismynickname2 member

  

  August 2014

  I agree with the PP who said the media plays a role in what's publicized. The media creates and furthers its own trends. Cruise ship issues? Shark attacks? Police brutality? Priests abusing young boys?  Right now, police brutality is a flavor of the moment. 

  
  

  Plus, anytime anything makes the news, someone always asks why it's in the news. Here in Chicago, recently a demoted executive went and tried to kill his boss before killing himself.  Two older (probably wealthy) white men.  I saw a comment on a national news outlet about, "Why aren't the hundreds of killings everyday publicized?"  Well, clearly that commentator has never read the Chicago Tribune because every day a front-page headline is how many shootings and deaths there were the day or weekend before. It's still news. But, when something different and unique happens (a shooting in a downtown office building is very rare), it is by definition news. 

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• southernbelle0915 mod

  

  August 2014

  Meh, I kind of agree and kind of don't.

  
  

  I don't think it's as simple as black on black or white on black gun violence. In the case of Mike Brown, it's not just white on black violence, it's Police vs. unarmed civilian. IMHO that adds the very scary element of racial undertones being ever present in law enforcement - the people who are supposed to serve and protect.

  
  

  Of course racism is a huge part of our history and we'd be in denial to think everything is all gravy now. Some women on this board may even remember when racial undertones were violent, racist overtones - racism was actually held up by the legal system and courts, not just public sentiment. 

  
  

  That said, I agree people should be outraged about murder/violence in general. But I don't think it's wrong for people to be particularly upset about a potentially racially influenced crime - especially when it's committed by a member of the Police and the victim is unarmed. 

  
  

  On a side note, I think the media plays a huge role in picking and choosing what to sensationalize and what to leave out of the spotlight. And I think average folks mindlessly latch on to what the media sensationalizes as "this must be really important, I should be upset by this". Then if it's not covered by national news, "this must not be as important, I'm not as upset by this". So I think there's that to consider as well.

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• steph861 member

  

  August 2014

  daria24 said:

  While I understand your argument, I think the reason people are upset is not simply because a white man killed a POC, but because it was yet another example of the police killing an unarmed person, who almost always is a POC. This is about a systemic problem that exists all across the US, not just with POC being killed, but unfairly targeted during traffic stops, drug busts, all the way through prosecution and sentencing. 

  
  

  I just think it's different discussions-one about an abuse by the government, the other about crime between citizens.

  
  

  And while in Detroit there might not be vigils/walks/protests against black on black crime, I have seen them in other cities. They just don't get the kind of attention a Trayvon Martin-type incident does. 

  I have to agree with this. I can't speak to what it's like in other cities, but where I'm from, violence perpetrated by a law enforcement officer will almost always get attention. When the victim is an Aboriginal person (there's a significant Aboriginal population where I live), it's an even bigger deal.

  
  

  If a crime fits into a well-established "oppressor versus the oppressed" narrative (e.g., slavery, colonialism, women's suffrage, etc), it will almost always get more attention. It forces us to confront uncomfortable truths about our society's past and present. When we're reminded of these narratives, it can reveal a lot of anger, resentment and shame. Because of the historical controversies associated with these narratives, they touch a nerve in a way that violence within a social group doesn't.

  
  
  
  
  

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• jdluvr06 member

  

  August 2014

  I know I'm gonna get crap for this but sometimes I think the media likes to demonize police officers because it makes a better story. As of right now (unless new info has come out that I missed which is entirely possible) all they know is that the boy was unarmed. They don't know anything else because it is still under investigation. As of right now we don't know what is going to happen to the police officer who shot the boy or if anything should happen. People in the media like to get ahead of themselves and then it incites all this anger. Then if the story doesn't go the way the media thinks it should they completely stop covering it. Take for example the shooting that happened in Cincinatti a few years ago. The man was unarmed and people were outraged. After they investigated and released the results it turns out the man who was shot had a criminal history a mile long, ran from police in this instance and when he couldn't run anymore and starts to turn around he reached in his pocket. It was an unfortunate incident but it could have been prevented if the man had acted with some common sense. I'm not saying anything is justified or that people shouldn't be angry about things that happen, especially when someone ends up dead. I just wish people would wait for the full story before jumping to conclusions.

  
  

  Also, about the rioters, again I might get crap for this, but I don't think these people are really angry about the shootings. I think these people are criminals using a sad situation as an excuse to act out. The people who really care are the ones holding the peaceful protest and are trying to make sure justice is served in a productive manner.

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• Ndelible member

  

  August 2014

  There are so many issues wrapped up in the Mike Brown incident and it following up on high and low profile law enforcement debacles.  They need to be separated.

  
  

  color on color crime = crime.  Black on black crime is a daily tragedy.  However, most crime is intraracial.  white on white crime, asian on asian, latino on latino. That's just crime.  We can talk about poverty, social class and drugs for those issues.

  
  

  But, this falls into another category: law enforcement on any color crimes = color of authority/repression crimes, that should be held to a higher standard.  This is especially true since many times officers are not adequately punished for unjustified shootings.  There have been several high profile shootings by officers of mentally ill people in Southern California where I live (all races).  The issue at heart is de-escalation; why don't we practice it more?  The citizens must demand it.  We must hold our own institutions responsible and require that they treat all citizens fairly and commit to safety and defusing situations where it can be done.  This is what the protesters are doing; demanding that the police not shoot unarmed civilians or assume because of the race of the alleged perpetrator, that they are, in fact guilty or dangerous.  

  
  

  If Mike Brown were white (or asian, or latino, or other), there should be massive protests.  We get the law enforcement we settle for.

  Happiness is an inside job

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• daria24 member

  

  August 2014

  jdluvr06 said:

  I know I'm gonna get crap for this but sometimes I think the media likes to demonize police officers because it makes a better story. As of right now (unless new info has come out that I missed which is entirely possible) all they know is that the boy was unarmed. They don't know anything else because it is still under investigation. As of right now we don't know what is going to happen to the police officer who shot the boy or if anything should happen. People in the media like to get ahead of themselves and then it incites all this anger. Then if the story doesn't go the way the media thinks it should they completely stop covering it. Take for example the shooting that happened in Cincinatti a few years ago. The man was unarmed and people were outraged. After they investigated and released the results it turns out the man who was shot had a criminal history a mile long, ran from police in this instance and when he couldn't run anymore and starts to turn around he reached in his pocket. It was an unfortunate incident but it could have been prevented if the man had acted with some common sense. I'm not saying anything is justified or that people shouldn't be angry about things that happen, especially when someone ends up dead. I just wish people would wait for the full story before jumping to conclusions.

  
  

  Also, about the rioters, again I might get crap for this, but I don't think these people are really angry about the shootings. I think these people are criminals using a sad situation as an excuse to act out. The people who really care are the ones holding the peaceful protest and are trying to make sure justice is served in a productive manner.

  
  

  In this case I'm not blaming the media. The local government in this case is doing everything to make this situation worse-refusing to answer basic questions (like how many times he was shot), the claims that they refused for days to interview an eye witness, police showing up to peaceful protests in riot gear and MRAPs, saying they would release the officer's name, then refusing to, etc. They are the ones who are escalating the situation, up until a few hours ago the MSM was largely not covering the story, as they couldn't get reporters/cameras on the ground. The police tried to shut out the media, so the only flow of information has been from Twitter, Facebook, etc. Sites with character limits that can hardly show the full scope of what is going on, information is posted instantly without double checking facts etc. 

  
  

  Also the "wait for the report" argument holds little water with me, since I have about 0% faith in these investigations. In a case like this, where it will come down to the word of a police officer vs the word of an eyewitness, who is also a POC with a criminal record? Please, they always side with the officer. I don't think we'll ever get the actual truth.

  

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• larrygaga member

  

  August 2014 edited August 2014

  lolo883 said:

  I totally agree with you. We should be outraged whenever a human life is taken. Every life is valuable and our whole society, regardless of race, could stand to display a lot more patience, compassion, and respect.

  
  

  (ps HI fellow Detroiter!)

  I agree and am also a detroiter

  
  

  I would also really like it if people would stop giving Michigan such a bad rep. We are struggling as it is. 

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• morphemes member

  

  August 2014

  jdluvr06 said:

  I know I'm gonna get crap for this but sometimes I think the media likes to demonize police officers because it makes a better story. As of right now (unless new info has come out that I missed which is entirely possible) all they know is that the boy was unarmed. They don't know anything else because it is still under investigation. As of right now we don't know what is going to happen to the police officer who shot the boy or if anything should happen. People in the media like to get ahead of themselves and then it incites all this anger. Then if the story doesn't go the way the media thinks it should they completely stop covering it. Take for example the shooting that happened in Cincinatti a few years ago. The man was unarmed and people were outraged. After they investigated and released the results it turns out the man who was shot had a criminal history a mile long, ran from police in this instance and when he couldn't run anymore and starts to turn around he reached in his pocket. It was an unfortunate incident but it could have been prevented if the man had acted with some common sense. I'm not saying anything is justified or that people shouldn't be angry about things that happen, especially when someone ends up dead. I just wish people would wait for the full story before jumping to conclusions.

  
  

  Also, about the rioters, again I might get crap for this, but I don't think these people are really angry about the shootings. I think these people are criminals using a sad situation as an excuse to act out. The people who really care are the ones holding the peaceful protest and are trying to make sure justice is served in a productive manner.

  I'm confused why we need to know more than the bolded. It says two important things to me: 1) that this was a kid and 2) that he was unarmed. Are you seriously suggesting that police officers who have been trained and who hold weapons that do not kill (pepper spray, tasers, etc) had no other option than to shoot an unarmed boy to death? A gun should honestly be a last resort. An absolutely last resort by the police. Shooting to kill an unarmed boy? I am sorry if this paragraph is redundant. I guess I kept repeating myself in the hopes that you would eventually hear it. 

  
  

  I'm also from Chicago and I no longer have any faith in police officers (and I am a law student who has worked on cases against CPD and have heard and seen absolutely disgusting things done by police officers--so I may be biased) but I think any human being (biases or no) should be upset about the shooting of an unarmed boy. We need to seriously consider, as a society, the role that police have taken on for themselves. 

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• novella1186 member

  

  August 2014

  Ndelible said:

  There are so many issues wrapped up in the Mike Brown incident and it following up on high and low profile law enforcement debacles.  They need to be separated.

  
  

  color on color crime = crime.  Black on black crime is a daily tragedy.  However, most crime is intraracial.  white on white crime, asian on asian, latino on latino. That's just crime.  We can talk about poverty, social class and drugs for those issues.

  
  

  But, this falls into another category: law enforcement on any color crimes = color of authority/repression crimes, that should be held to a higher standard.  This is especially true since many times officers are not adequately punished for unjustified shootings.  There have been several high profile shootings by officers of mentally ill people in Southern California where I live (all races).  The issue at heart is de-escalation; why don't we practice it more?  The citizens must demand it.  We must hold our own institutions responsible and require that they treat all citizens fairly and commit to safety and defusing situations where it can be done.  This is what the protesters are doing; demanding that the police not shoot unarmed civilians or assume because of the race of the alleged perpetrator, that they are, in fact guilty or dangerous.  

  
  

  If Mike Brown were white (or asian, or latino, or other), there should be massive protests.  We get the law enforcement we settle for.

  Well said. I find it particularly disturbing that cops shooting unarmed people is not so unusual, and the story (except for in this case) usually drops out of the news pretty quickly. No one calls it what it is: Murder. A cop is just a person. Give them a little power, and then it becomes something other than murder to kill an unarmed person. I don't get it. Not that every cop is bad or abuses their power, but I have personally known a few cops who have done some very disturbing, out-of-line things "just because" they could. 

  

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• jdluvr06 member

  

  August 2014

  morphemes said:

  jdluvr06 said:

  I know I'm gonna get crap for this but sometimes I think the media likes to demonize police officers because it makes a better story. As of right now (unless new info has come out that I missed which is entirely possible) all they know is that the boy was unarmed. They don't know anything else because it is still under investigation. As of right now we don't know what is going to happen to the police officer who shot the boy or if anything should happen. People in the media like to get ahead of themselves and then it incites all this anger. Then if the story doesn't go the way the media thinks it should they completely stop covering it. Take for example the shooting that happened in Cincinatti a few years ago. The man was unarmed and people were outraged. After they investigated and released the results it turns out the man who was shot had a criminal history a mile long, ran from police in this instance and when he couldn't run anymore and starts to turn around he reached in his pocket. It was an unfortunate incident but it could have been prevented if the man had acted with some common sense. I'm not saying anything is justified or that people shouldn't be angry about things that happen, especially when someone ends up dead. I just wish people would wait for the full story before jumping to conclusions.

  
  

  Also, about the rioters, again I might get crap for this, but I don't think these people are really angry about the shootings. I think these people are criminals using a sad situation as an excuse to act out. The people who really care are the ones holding the peaceful protest and are trying to make sure justice is served in a productive manner.

  I'm confused why we need to know more than the bolded. It says two important things to me: 1) that this was a kid and 2) that he was unarmed. Are you seriously suggesting that police officers who have been trained and who hold weapons that do not kill (pepper spray, tasers, etc) had no other option than to shoot an unarmed boy to death? A gun should honestly be a last resort. An absolutely last resort by the police. Shooting to kill an unarmed boy? I am sorry if this paragraph is redundant. I guess I kept repeating myself in the hopes that you would eventually hear it. 

  
  

  I'm also from Chicago and I no longer have any faith in police officers (and I am a law student who has worked on cases against CPD and have heard and seen absolutely disgusting things done by police officers--so I may be biased) but I think any human being (biases or no) should be upset about the shooting of an unarmed boy. We need to seriously consider, as a society, the role that police have taken on for themselves. 

  
  I do think we need more information. Being a police officer is a very dangerous job and they are trained to react a certain way in particular situations to keep themselves alive. Like my example from Cincinnati. What if the man had had a gun and the cop had hesitated? Maybe I'm biased because my BIL is a police officer, but I honestly get pissed that people automatically assume that law enforcement is at fault before anymore information is known. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the officer in question was right, I'm just saying that jumping to conclusions can be counter productive.

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• Maggie0829 member

  

  August 2014

  AprilH81 said:

  The shooting of an unarmed person of any color is horrible (as is any other murder).

  
  

  What I don't understand is how an outcry of anger (sounds as if it is justified) turns into rioting and looting?  Who thinks "Hey, the cops just shot a black/white/asian man, lets go steal a TV and tennis shoes."?

  
  

  Organize a peaceful march, petition the police for an investigation, ask the Governor to step in, take LEGAL and PEACEFUL steps to get to the bottom of what happened. The actions of the current mob are sad and discraceful in my opinion.
  

  @AprilH81 - I was wondering this too.  I don't see how violent protests and riots will help this situation.

  
  

  Also, it is these kind of stories that make everyone talk poorly of and lose respect for all police officers.  A few bad apples don't ruin the whole bunch, so lets remember that.

  
  

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• manateehugger member

  

  August 2014

  Maggie0829 said:

  AprilH81 said:

  The shooting of an unarmed person of any color is horrible (as is any other murder).

  
  

  What I don't understand is how an outcry of anger (sounds as if it is justified) turns into rioting and looting?  Who thinks "Hey, the cops just shot a black/white/asian man, lets go steal a TV and tennis shoes."?

  
  

  Organize a peaceful march, petition the police for an investigation, ask the Governor to step in, take LEGAL and PEACEFUL steps to get to the bottom of what happened. The actions of the current mob are sad and discraceful in my opinion.
  

  @AprilH81 - I was wondering this too.  I don't see how violent protests and riots will help this situation.

  
  

  Also, it is these kind of stories that make everyone talk poorly of and lose respect for all police officers.  A few bad apples don't ruin the whole bunch, so lets remember that.

  I'm from STL. The looting was so frustrating and sad, but I've been really lifted by more stories coming out now of people coming out to clean up their community and calls to focus on the actual issue at hand. 

  
  

  stltoday.com has tons of stories on it in case you're curious. 

  

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• novella1186 member

  

  August 2014

  The looting is a really sad turn in the situation. Violence in response to violence is worthless. This situation needs peace and common sense so that all the facts can come out.

  

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• SBmini member

  

  August 2014

  It's sad. It's really sad that we only get outraged when the crime is one race vs another race. Or one group vs another group. Yes, it is completely true that African Americans are unfairly treated by the criminal justice system, are more likely to be arrested, and perhaps more likely to be killed by the police. This is unacceptable and needs to be changed. However, there are plenty of other things that should outrage us just as much.

  
  

  I think your point is perfectly made. By getting all up in arms about this 'us vs them' crime we're reducing the legitimacy of the suffering for others who lost love ones in crimes that were 'us vs us' or 'them vs them'.  We need to be anti-innocent people being shot PERIOD!!! 

  
  

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• jakeiaf member

  

  August 2014

  I hope this works but this was the picture I posted with my rant... This shows the amount of people killed in one week in Detroit....

  Crime In The D.jpg 65.4K

  Crime In The D.jpg 65.4K

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• Simply Fated member

  

  August 2014

  The double standards are alarming. We see it in race, gender, nationalities, etc. It's not okay for "us" but it's fine for others? Not cool. 

  
  

  I have a feeling we don't have all the information, but from the information we do have and know for a fact happened...

  A white cop killed an unarmed African American teenager. 

  
  

  And, in protest, people started running crazy in the streets and hurting innocent people. 

  It's a shitload of hypocrisy and I'm over it. 

  
  

  I get it, many of our police are corrupt. There are serious flaws in the system. There is still a race divide. But the raiding and looting in the streets? Knock that shit off. All my sympathy flies out the window with that sort of protesting. That's not protesting, that's just being shitheads.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

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