NWR: How do you re-train a cat?

Bubblegum5586 · August 2014

I have 2 cats that are my babies who are so sweet and cuddly.... yet still total assholes. All cats are assholes to an extent.

We shut our bedroom door at night because they annoy the shit out of me when I am trying to sleep. Since they are nocturnal they want me to pay attention to them instead of sleeping. One of them would go on my night stand and knock one thing off at a time while looking at me to get a rise out of me! Now we lock them out at night and turn a fan on so we can't hear them. Sometimes they will find something loud to knock on the door with but mostly they have learned to leave as alone at night.

Another thing I noticed is sometimes when they pee outside their litter box (or poop) its usually because their litter box needed to be cleaned. It's hard to remember sometimes, but as long as I stay on top of it we really don't have any issues.

I have had these cats since the day they were born (my dad's cat's kittens). So I have loved them for a very long time and NO ONE could ever make me get rid of them (even when they puke sometimes.... which cats do!). Stinks you are in this situation, but it already sounds like it is getting better!

Good luck!

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

scribe95 said:

Get a second litter box and put them where the cat is used to them. Also, I think you are just going to have to get used to sleeping with the door open. Every cat I have ever had hates a closed door. Plus, it's kind of a weird fear to have as an adult. Maybe this will be the reason you conquer it.

I know it's such a weird fear! I've been doing alright falling asleep and not being paranoid at first, but when BF gets up at 445 and heads to work I get stupid scared. I am trying very hard, but it's so irrational.

When we were younger and I would spend the night here, we could keep BF's bedroom door closed no problem. But now we have the master bedroom, and there's no one else Asshole can bug.

For the litter box, I really don't want to have the one at the top of the stairs where you can see into it when you walk in the house. That's where one of three used to be. We are putting a second one in the basement, where the other two used to be and one currently is. Is there a way to show/convince him that's it's moved, or a way to get him to just deal?

Another plus: he's apparently a guard cat. He freaked out and growled out the window last night at some animal. If only he wasn't afraid of things that enter the house.

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

scribe95 said:

He is probably still smelling old feces/urine on the stairs and that's why he did it there. I know they don't like acid smell. Put a towel doused in lemon or lime juice where he pooped maybe? Good luck.

That's a good idea! So far I've steam cleaned the corner, but my nose isn't a sensitive as a cat's. I think BF's mom once placed a bowl of vinegar where Asshole had been peeing in a corner. He immediately stopped, and hasn't peed there ever again. I completely forgot about that until now!

Inkdancer · August 2014

timewellwasted93 said:

scribe95 said:

Get a second litter box and put them where the cat is used to them. Also, I think you are just going to have to get used to sleeping with the door open. Every cat I have ever had hates a closed door. Plus, it's kind of a weird fear to have as an adult. Maybe this will be the reason you conquer it.

I know it's such a weird fear! I've been doing alright falling asleep and not being paranoid at first, but when BF gets up at 445 and heads to work I get stupid scared. I am trying very hard, but it's so irrational.

When we were younger and I would spend the night here, we could keep BF's bedroom door closed no problem. But now we have the master bedroom, and there's no one else Asshole can bug.

For the litter box, I really don't want to have the one at the top of the stairs where you can see into it when you walk in the house. That's where one of three used to be. We are putting a second one in the basement, where the other two used to be and one currently is. Is there a way to show/convince him that's it's moved, or a way to get him to just deal?

Another plus: he's apparently a guard cat. He freaked out and growled out the window last night at some animal. If only he wasn't afraid of things that enter the house.

Carry him down and put him in the new litter box. That will show him where it is now and he will figure it out. That plus the lemon towel should do the trick.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

First, you need to stop referring to the cat as Asshole. It's not fair to the cat, who did not choose to be in this situation, brought about by the Asshole humans around it. Your BF's mother is an Asshole for giving up a pet so easily and her FI is an Asshole for having no patience with the poor animal, who sounded like he was stressed from the move and transition.

Again, your cat is not an asshole- it's reacting to its environment and it's trying to communicate with you guys. Cats are very sensitive animals, and the smallest amount of stress in their environment or changes to their environment can negatively affect their behaviors.

1st, get rid of your current litter box, clean the area around it thoroughly, get a new litter box, and fill it with the exact same litter this cat was accustomed to using before your BF's mother moved. Then you need to keep that box and the area around it immaculately clean- cats will not shit in a dirty litter box- and you need to be patient and observe what happens. Make sure your cat is not having other health related issues which are causing it to go outside the litter box. I'd suggest taking the cat to be sure its healthy.

DO NOT use any citrus products near the area the litter box is in. Cats do not like the smell of citrus and will actively avoid any areas that smell as such.

And for God's sakes, stop moving the damn thing around every 5mins! Pick a spot for the litter box, and leave it there! Cats hate when you fuck around with their litter box location all of the time.

You can work with cats to modify their behaviors, like gradually getting him used to not getting treats at 4:30am by just not doing that, but some personality traits can't be trained away because they are personality traits- like him wanting to be in the room with you guys at night.

Cats, feral, wild, and domesticated, are pack animals- more specifically thet form prides in the larger wild cat communities and clowders for domesticated cats. It's a natural desire for them to want to be with their "pride" at night when they go to sleep, as it's evolutionarily wired into them. Plus, if he was used to sleeping in the same room or in the bed with FI's mother, he's going to be seeking that same comfort from you guys.

The humane thing to do is for you, the human being, to find a way to get over this goofy issue you have with keeping the door cracked open at night. And look, as weird as it is, I get it. I don't like having open doors when I'm in a house full of ppl because I have this weird thing where I don't like the idea of ppl being able to see or "watch" me sleep. But I dealt with it and kept the door cracked for the cats, because they want to be able to come and go freely and if they can't, well you know. . . they will annoy you to get in or out!

If you can't deal with this issue that you have, then you might have to look into humane ways to deter your cat from wanting to come into your room, as PPS mentioned, but honestly I think that will just add to your cat's stress and he will continue to manifest behavioral issues- like the growling and hissing.

Please check out these Essences, as some may help your cat calm down and start to de-stress: http://www.spiritessences.com/

I strongly, strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the work of Jackson Galaxy and also speak to a vet or a local cat rescue group to get help with dealing with this transition. If you can't fnd a way to help this cat transition and actually get to like it, then I suggest you put that cat up for adoption through a no-kill shelter or a rescue group. No animal should live in an environment where it is not loved, it's not fair.

I also strongly, strongly recommend that you not get a kitten, if you cannot find a way to deal with this cat. There is no guarantee that you won't have issues with the kitten as it grows up.

I'm sorry if this post reads as overly harsh, but I feel very very strongly about the welfare and care of pets. I follow several FB groups curated by volunteers at high kill shelters and the purpose of those pages is to reach out to as many people as possible in an effort to save cats and dogs from daily euthanasia lists. The numbers of animals dumped at shelters and put to death because of shitty fucking people is frankly sickening; on just one list for an NYC shelter there are almost 30 cats to be euthanized today.

offensivekitten2 · August 2014

I feel seriously sorry for this cat. He's desperately trying to deal with huge amounts of life changes and stress, and he gets called an asshole and treated like such? That's fucking sad.

Hissing= stress
Going outside the litterbox= stress
Hiding = stress

I can't even believe this poor animal was vomiting and was just kicked out instead of taken to the vet. What kind of souless shit does that to a sick animal? And then it gets dumped in a house where people are hostile to it, it's litter box is constantly moved, and it gets isolated? Wtf? How is the cat an asshole?

I quit humanity, this is bullshit.

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

@offensivekitten2 @PrettyGirlLost

I'd just like to say I don't actually call him asshole in real life. Just on here. I guess I could have used his real name, since anyone that comes across this would automatically know who I am anyways.

I honestly don't like him though, and I'm sure he can sense it, but I pet him and play with him (when he lets me). And I give him his treats at night, and have been the one feeding him dinner. I'm trying to get him used to me giving him positive things. We've also left the door open for him every night, except during sexy times, and he has come and slept with us a couple times. I don't mind have a kitty sleep with me, but I can't lock him in the room either lol. I'm definitely not hostile to him.

Some other info about him though, the growling and hissing is nothing new. He's always been like that. And he's always been a hider. It's hard to tell if he's doing it because he's stressed, or because it's just what he does. I'm positive he's stressed though, I know I would be. I also lived in the house for a couple years a while ago, and BF has always lived here, so at least he knows us, even if we aren't his mom.

And don't worry, we're definitely not getting a kitten.

Part of his attitude issue is that he was spoiled by BF's mom. She found him as a kitten with a dead mom, bottle fed him, and just spoiled the crap out of him with treats and food (he is very fat) and all the attention he wants. He's very attached to her, which is another reason why he should live with her and not us. I also brought that point up, but her FI is the winner loser here.

I do feel guilty that I don't like the cat, but he has always been a mean cat. I grew up with a few cats at my grandparent's (lived there for a few years as a child) and then we adopted two cats at my mom's, though one has since passed away. They've always been sweet, and nice and friendly. I house sit for a couple families and watch their cats. One is only mean if you touch her tail (learned that real fast), another one doesn't like new people so never interacted with me. Asshole is the only mean cat I've ever had to deal with, and the whole situation is sucky for everyone involved, especially him, which is why I came for advice. And I've never ever dealt with a cat moving homes or owners besides initial adoptions.

I also think that since I don't see him as MY cat, I'm more upset about all the problems with him, which makes me not like him more. I know I need to change my attitude, but it's hard sometimes.

Question about the litter box though: it's the same one he's had for years. BF's mom brought it back. We also use the exact same litter they've always used. Do you think it's the actual litter box or litter, or just the stress and he might get used to it again? I mean by all means I'll clean it and/or buy a new one or anything to get him to use it, I'm just curious if anyone thinks that it might change once he gets used to living here again.

Also, BF moved it when he pooped on the floor, and it was moved back once I saw it (within a few hours), so it's not being constantly moved. I've also just noticed that the cat has maybe used it twice. It is by no means dirty. I haven't noticed him going anywhere else, can't smell cat urine anywhere. He's definitely been eating and drinking. We're supposed to have a vet appointment next week, but I think he needs an earlier appointment. I going to see if we can get one tonight or tomorrow. I'm worried that he's not going to the bathroom at all now. Serious question: is that stress related or is he super sick? I know it'll lead to him being super sick, so if I can't get an earlier appointment I'll head to the pet ER ASAP once I sweep through the house and see if he has been going anywhere else again.

I don't think you're being harsh with me, just honest. Don't quit humanity please. I need lots of help with all this

beethery · August 2014

If he hasn't gone at all in a day, you need to get him to a vet ASAP.

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

Nevermind, I figured out where he was peeing. An old corner he used to pee in before they had 3 litter boxes. It just wasn't fresh so I couldn't really smell it (I have a history of not being able to smell ammonia or cucumbers). We were going to get a second litter box for him, but do you think he will want to have 3? I really really don't want to put a litter box on that landing, and the bathroom on that floor is way to small...I'll take all the suggestions please

ETA: I honestly don't think he's ventured all the way downstairs since he's been home, which is where the litter box is (and two used to be). Usually that's where he always hangs out. He also only comes out of hiding at dinner time, then again around bed time (for food and treats).

jules3964 · August 2014

Are the litterboxes you have out now in the same locations they were always at before, when the cat lived there with your FI's mother? I would have them in the same locations. And if he was used to having 3 before, I would try having 3 again.

Obviously he finds that pee corner very convenient. You want to make the litterbox just as convenient, if not more so. I'm sorry, I would hate having 3 boxes as well — but it's better than having cat pee on the floor. Once he is less stressed and used to using them, maybe you can work it down to 2 again.

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

jules3964 said:

Are the litterboxes you have out now in the same locations they were always at before, when the cat lived there with your FI's mother? I would have them in the same locations. And if he was used to having 3 before, I would try having 3 again.

Obviously he finds that pee corner very convenient. You want to make the litterbox just as convenient, if not more so. I'm sorry, I would hate having 3 boxes as well — but it's better than having cat pee on the floor. Once he is less stressed and used to using them, maybe you can work it down to 2 again.

Yes, but we only have one at the moment. We are getting a second one, and now possibly a third. I put some tin foil down in that area for the time being since it's not even a place where a litter box can feasibly go. I've got to seriously clean that corner and get the cat smell out along with getting litter boxes. And some of those scents that everyone's been recommending to help with his stress.

doeydo · August 2014

Regarding the bedroom door, could you put in a cat door (or a "doggy" door if he is too big to fit into a "cat" door) and then you could close the door at night while he could still get in and out?

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

@doeydo that would be awesome if I can get the BF to agree to it.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

Your cat doesn't sound like a mean cat, though. He sounds like a cat who is super stressed and super upset and confused by having the person he is bonded to, who literally saved him and raised him and has been with him his entire life, dump his ass for her BF.

He also may have a nervous personality to begin with, hence the hissing at your BF even though the cat is soliciting his attention.

I think he just needs time to warm up to you both and to feel he can trust.

If you can afford it, I would take him to a vet though because litter box issues and the hissing and hiding could be signs of an underlying health problem.

Just keep working with him and asking questions, and thanks for being receptive to our comments and information. I wish you three the best of luck and will continue to follow this thread!

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

Your cat doesn't sound like a mean cat, though. He sounds like a cat who is super stressed and super upset and confused by having the person he is bonded to, who literally saved him and raised him and has been with him his entire life, dump his ass for her BF.

He also may have a nervous personality to begin with, hence the hissing at your BF even though the cat is soliciting his attention.

I think he just needs time to warm up to you both and to feel he can trust.

If you can afford it, I would take him to a vet though because litter box issues and the hissing and hiding could be signs of an underlying health problem.

Just keep working with him and asking questions, and thanks for being receptive to our comments and information. I wish you three the best of luck and will continue to follow this thread!

Oh I need all the information I can get, which is why I came to you guys.

He's always been a hissy, growling cat that wants attention. I think it's just who he is, but all this stress has made it worse. Sometimes I think he's just mental, but he's never been diagnosed as having any health problems. He did have a UTI a few years ago, which is when he was peeing in that corner. He was very traumatized by being left at the vet over night also. There is no blood in his pee now like when he was sick, but it could still be something either in his head or maybe he's getting sick again.

I plan on talking to the vet about all of his behaviors. I've been at many of his appointments, and usually they go along the lines of "well he's fat, he needs to go on a diet, here's some shots, you can go." BF's mom doesn't really ask questions or mention how weird he acts.

He's so funny when we feed him. He meows and rubs against everything while were getting it ready, then the second we take it over to where he eats, he starts growling and hissing before we can put it down. He's always done this, too. He is just very strange.

beethery · August 2014

My mom's cat is EXACTLY like what you just described. I've woken up to her being snuggly exactly three times since I brought her home in 2007. She was (estimated to be) 13 weeks old. Pretty sure she was fully feral and had zero interest in finding a comfy home where her every need would be catered to. For real, mean kitty lives THE LIFE.

Now that I do not live at home, she has that entire side of that floor to herself, a bed, and a bathroom that doesn't really get used. She gets played with a little bit (she has very little interest in it), and she gets an ointment put in one of her eyes every day. She hates closed doors... which is funny because she closes any door that isn't blocked open. MK gets treats, multiple scratching posts, free reign of the house and all surfaces, and is surrounded by family (including the dog!) that loves her and is always nice to her. Honest to god, her best relationship is with my parents' dog. They're not besties or anything, they just respect each others' space and PLAY together.

She is so anti-social that whenever the vet has to deal with her, they put her under. Her vet trips are very rare. My mom is very up on her health, and knows exactly when any of P's routine is off or indicative of a need for a vet visit.

She's just a weird cat, and she likes being mostly by herself. Sometimes she has a friendly moment with my parents, but she's content with acknowledging them with a hiss and a growl if she sees them in the hallway. Some cats just don't want to be friends.

jynxiie · August 2014

I can not believe someone would get rid of a cat for throwing up - seems like a pretty stupid reason..

Anyways...
SSScat air spray works wonders - I second putting that at your door at night.
He will understand pretty quickly.

His washroom issues most likely would be stress related. Make sure you clean the area 100% (nothing with ammonia). If the problem persists... Get some Cat attract cat litter. Again, works great for attracting cats to their boxes.

You can also get pheromone collars - cheaper option. I have seen these work great on cats that will not leave their litter boxes due to stress, so this is an option I would look into if he does not calm down with the hissing.

Try bonding with him... Play with him... Laser pointers or wands are my favs.

I personally rarely give my cats treats, so I would skip that completely unless he wont bond through toys. I just hate being pestered for treats haha.

AlexaF2014 · August 2014

Jackson Galaxy is amazing and has an answer for just about every cat problem.

The usual take-home point is that cats do things for REASONS. If he's not peeing in the litter box, there is either something unattractive about the litter box, or more attractive about the other spaces that he is using. The hissing, growling, scratching, pawing are all for reasons, not just out of spite. Find and fix the reasons and things should go back to normal.

Punishment doesn't work for cats; their minds don't work like, "I did the thing, something unpleasant happened, I shouldn't do the thing;" more like, "I did the thing, human did something unpleasant to me, I should not let human see me do the thing" To deter behavior, you either have to either make the behavior unappealing, or make something else more appealing. Double-stick tape where he paws or scratches, tin-foil on places where he jumps, and small bowls of food where he urinates where he shouldn't are all good places to start.

A lot of PP have said the poor guy is stressed and it's true, but so are you I imagine. You're going to have to learn how he likes to be shown affection and what his triggers are as far as growling/hissing/biting. Be patient; show him love and eventually he'll realize you're not the enemy, you're just the closest thing he's going to get to his mom from now on. Good Luck!

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

Good news: He was all purrs this morning, even though I stepped on him by accident when I got out of bed. He's hiding now, but no bathroom surprise (that I've found) yet. He also didn't growl when I went in the bedroom last night, but was quite unpleasant when I tried to get in bed. At least there's progress.

Bad news: I had another round of nightmares and sleep paralysis. It wasn't as bad as the other day, since I understood what was happening sooner, but man this sucks. I don't know how to fix myself without upsetting the cat at night. I'm afraid if I keep him out of the room, he's going to retaliate (from stress) with bad bathroom behavior or something, or just not adjust well. Still trying to convince BF to put in a kitty door.

I'm used to nightmares (which I get when I'm stressed), but I'm so much more afraid when I wake up now because the first thing I see is the stupid open door. And it's not even open all the way, just enough for the cat. Does anyone have any good techniques for calming down or lessening a fear? Or de-stressing before bed that could alleviate my nightmares?

I'm not a tea drinker and I hate baths so that usually doesn't work for me. I also have a very active mind when I got to bed. I lay there for about an hour before I get sleepy.

I'm trying out your wonderful ideas, and so far tin foil and a structured day have been working. Next step is a second litter box, and the vets next week. He seems to be doing better than the first few days, so I'm getting a bit more used to having the grump around. I still wish he would come cuddle with me, but he is so fat I think he would put my legs to sleep if he laid on them. Poor guy is going on a diet once we talk to the vet.

PrettyGirlLost · August 2014

Have you considered talking to a therapist about your sleeping issues, nightmares, and paralysis?

doeydo · August 2014

Look up box breathing and grounding techniques. My therapist taught me those techniques for when I get overly anxious or anything. If you have PSTD or something that caused your fear of the open door, my therapist has me do a few things when I have a sort of flash back or whatever like that. 1. Name what is the same/what was the trigger (sometimes you can't figure it out, so don't stay too long on this one) 2. What's different (it's 2014, you're in a safe place, etc.) 3. What do I need to do for me? It could be a nice walk, cup of tea, read a book, or whatever.

timewellwasted93 · August 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

Have you considered talking to a therapist about your sleeping issues, nightmares, and paralysis?

I have thought about it. I'm half worried they're going to tell me I'm mental (which is stupid, I know they're going to help and not make fun of me but still), and half worried they're going to want me to take sleep medication. My family has a major history of addiction, and sleep aids are usually really addictive. I know they'd work with me on that, and I can refuse medication and all, but I've just never been ready to take that step.

Usually nightmares and sleep problems come from when I'm stressed out. So once the stress is over, I'm fine. I just walk around like a zombie in the mean time.

The paralysis is brand new though. I've never experienced it before in my life, so maybe now is the time to get help.

NWR: How do you re-train a cat?

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