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Am I out of line here?

carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
10 Comments 5 Love Its
in Wedding Etiquette Forum
Hello everyone,

I am getting married October 25 and have tried my best to ensure that I am following proper etiquette while planning my wedding. I had my bridal shower today and it was a lovely event with many of my closest girl friends and family. I very much appreciate the generosity of everyone involved and feel deeply indebted to my maid of honor who threw a great event for me, while also trying to plan her own wedding! My problem comes with the lack of etiquette and plain rudeness a few of my wedding guests have shown thus far. 
One of the couples we invited got married themselves in August of this year. There was a bridal shower for the bride in June. I was unable to attend the shower (it was three hours away and I was working), but I went in on a sizable and expensive gift with two of my other friends. One of those friends was a bridesmaid at the wedding in question. Anyway, I never received a thank you card and neither did either of my friends. My fiancee and I have also not received a thank you card for our cash gift at the wedding, which totaled $200. To top it all off, the wedding was several hours away and it was a cash bar the entire time. I understand that not everyone can afford an open bar, but frankly I find it rude and tacky not to provide *anything* or *any* portion of the wedding as an open bar. I can forgive the lack of a thank you card for the wedding gift because we are only two months out, but the shower too? Plus, she never RSVP'd to my maid of honor for the shower, and did not send a gift in her absence. 
I should add that another invited guest was married last June and, again, we never received a thank you card for the money we gave them (they requested cash). Also, they never RSVP'd to our wedding. 

Are manners lost completely? I am providing an open bar at my wedding, and although my parents have paid for 90% of the wedding costs, I am paying for the bar myself. I feel it is an important thank you for guests and am admittedly against a cash bar. I sent thank you cards for gifts I received before the shower within a week, and have a list of names and gifts from today that I plan on translating into thank you cards tomorrow. Am I expecting too much from people? Do people simply not abide by etiquette anymore?
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Re: Am I out of line here?

  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Right, I understand that. It is just the fact that it's compounded with a thank you card four months in the works and a wedding that expected guests to not only give gifts, but also pay for gas, hotel stay, gift, and the bar! Sorry, I understand that not everyone can afford to pay a lot for gifts, but it's plain rude to give nothing. Even a hand-written card is much appreciated. 
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    And, I should add, no one needs that long to write a thank you card. I am in graduate school full time, work part time, and am also completing my internship. On top of that, I am planning my wedding while trying to take care of the house my fiancee and I just bought. I made the time to write thank you cards in a prompt manner. There is no excuse for taking months to write a thank you card when you have time to post incessantly on Facebook about your wedding. Give me a break. 
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  • ViczaesarViczaesar member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    carolyncobb85 said:
    Hello everyone,

    I am getting married October 25 and have tried my best to ensure that I am following proper etiquette while planning my wedding. I had my bridal shower today and it was a lovely event with many of my closest girl friends and family. I very much appreciate the generosity of everyone involved and feel deeply indebted to my maid of honor who threw a great event for me, while also trying to plan her own wedding! My problem comes with the lack of etiquette and plain rudeness a few of my wedding guests have shown thus far. 
    One of the couples we invited got married themselves in August of this year. There was a bridal shower for the bride in June. I was unable to attend the shower (it was three hours away and I was working), but I went in on a sizable and expensive gift with two of my other friends. One of those friends was a bridesmaid at the wedding in question. Anyway, I never received a thank you card and neither did either of my friends. My fiancee and I have also not received a thank you card for our cash gift at the wedding, which totaled $200. To top it all off, the wedding was several hours away and it was a cash bar the entire time. I understand that not everyone can afford an open bar, but frankly I find it rude and tacky not to provide *anything* or *any* portion of the wedding as an open bar. I can forgive the lack of a thank you card for the wedding gift because we are only two months out, but the shower too? Plus, she never RSVP'd to my maid of honor for the shower, and did not send a gift in her absence. 
    I should add that another invited guest was married last June and, again, we never received a thank you card for the money we gave them (they requested cash). Also, they never RSVP'd to our wedding. 

    Are manners lost completely? I am providing an open bar at my wedding, and although my parents have paid for 90% of the wedding costs, I am paying for the bar myself. I feel it is an important thank you for guests and am admittedly against a cash bar. I sent thank you cards for gifts I received before the shower within a week, and have a list of names and gifts from today that I plan on translating into thank you cards tomorrow. Am I expecting too much from people? Do people simply not abide by etiquette anymore?
    Yes, it is rude not to RSVP, and it is rude to not send thank you cards.  However, person #1 was not rude for not sending a gift even though she didn't attend the shower.  There is no requirement that one send a gift when not attending a shower, and no requirement of a gift at all when attending non-shower events.  Why are you taking these two specific people/couple and extrapolating that people don't abide by etiquette anymore?  That's quite a jump.

    If your wedding is October 25, your RSVP date shouldn't have passed yet, so how do you know that the one couple won't be RSVPing to your wedding?



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  • ViczaesarViczaesar member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    carolyncobb85 said:
    Right, I understand that. It is just the fact that it's compounded with a thank you card four months in the works and a wedding that expected guests to not only give gifts, but also pay for gas, hotel stay, gift, and the bar! Sorry, I understand that not everyone can afford to pay a lot for gifts, but it's plain rude to give nothing. Even a hand-written card is much appreciated. 
    Nope.  Gifts are not required for anything, with the exception of showers since the purpose of a shower is to shower the bride with gifts. 



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  • SachaBeeSachaBee member
    Seventh Anniversary 100 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    @viczaesar, correct, but I think the OP was saying they would have liked at least a card, not a gift. I guess it's still not required but definitely "good manners" to send a card.
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  • ViczaesarViczaesar member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    SachaBee said:
    @viczaesar, correct, but I think the OP was saying they would have liked at least a card, not a gift. I guess it's still not required but definitely "good manners" to send a card.
    I don't agree.  Cards are no more required than presents.



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  • ViczaesarViczaesar member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    banana468 said:
    Honestly, while gifts aren't too be expected, I think we need to make sure that not giving anything particularly when you're a recent bride with her hand out at showers is behavior to be lauded either.
    Who had their hand out at a shower?  I can't quite understand what you're saying here.

    Either way, it's not about lauding.  I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm saying that neither a card nor a physical gift is required.  According to Miss Manners you should give a gift if you're able, but that's not because it's required.  It's because if you're close enough to someone to be invited to their wedding etc. then you should be close enough to them to want to give them a present - again, if you're able.  At the same time, one should never expect to receive gifts or cards. 



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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    No, no, don't misunderstand me here. I definitely do not feel entitled to gifts, and I understand that no one is obligated to give me anything. In fact, I think that the whole gift for getting married is kind of silly, but it's tradition and most people are happy to give and share in the celebration of a marriage. My problem comes with the fact that I have been dealing with the aforementioned bride's tacky behavior for the past year-plus. It was *all about her* constantly. Every day there would be multiple Facebook posts regarding how stressed she was, how put out she was, or thinly veiled posts asking for attention and praise from people. Maybe that's why I'm having such a problem with her rudeness. Also, our respond by date was several weeks ago. We realize it was early, and gave people extra time for that reason, but we have lots of family coming from far away and wanted to be sure we got everything arraigned with plenty of time to spare. I have reached out to the non-RSVPS (there were more than the two I mentioned) and have been pretty stunned by how out-of-touch some people seem to be. Also, I know my MOH reached out to the bride absent from the shower on multiple occasions and still never received any RSVP from her. I have much more of a problem with that than with the fact that there was no gift. Again, I understand that she is not obligated to give me anything, but I personally would be mortified if someone who could not attend my shower sent me a gift, and I did not reciprocate a few months later when she was getting married. 
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  • misshart00misshart00 member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    Also, I just wanted to point out to OP, while cash bars are rude, a couple doesn't have to provide alcohol to guests. They are welcome to have a limited bar or dry wedding.
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  • Fran1985 Fran1985 member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper
    Some people just don't do thank you notes. Its not right, but you'll drive yourself crazy dwelling on it. Also, I am against cash bars too, but I think its a lot easier to be on your high horse about them when your parents are paying for 90% of your wedding. I would just try to reframe it in your mind- your lucky to have generous parents, and you learned to be a generous person as well. 

    Also my date is October 25 too- but our rsvp date isn't until October 1. And even October 1 is a touch early. I think part of the problem is that your date was so early. 

    image
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Just to note, I sent save the dates in March. People have been well aware of the date for quite a while. I discussed the RSVP-by date quite extensively with the woman we ordered the invites from, and she suggested the date we gave. Her reasoning was that people go away over the summer, and then get busy again in the fall. Putting a respond by date of September would be inviting people to forget. The invitations were sent out in June, people had almost three months to respond. I'm sorry, but that is plenty of time. 
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Well, actually, my mother is the one who has paid for most of the wedding. My father has not contributed (parents are divorced). We have been adhering to a strict budget the entire time. I decided I was not going to compromise of the open bar. I have not asked my mother to pay for that, it is coming out of my own money. Also, my finance and I are contributed several thousand dollars for the food. Believe me, I am not entitled and do not have parents shelling out tons of cash our way. My mother told me a figure she would be able to contribute at the beginning and we have worked around that. 
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Perhaps, but she is the owner of a stationary store that does hundreds of weddings a year. She suggested this because of the fact that we had many guests traveling from far away to come. I understand if you live within an hour or a couple hours of the wedding location, but don't people want to get their hotel and flights booked in advance? I can't imagine trying to get a flight and hotel within a couple weeks of a wedding I am attending. 
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Right, so am I missing something? We sent save the dates several months ago. If you received one and know you are coming, why would an earlier RSVP-by date be inconvenient? Wouldn't you have already looked into booking the flight and hotel?
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  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    carolyncobb85 said:

    Right, so am I missing something? We sent save the dates several months ago. If you received one and know you are coming, why would an earlier RSVP-by date be inconvenient? Wouldn't you have already looked into booking the flight and hotel?

    Those that could do so early would have. Those who don't have the luxury of doing so due to their own circumstances would find an early response date to be rude.
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  • LDay2014LDay2014 member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper

    carolyncobb85 said:

    She suggested this because of the fact that we had many guests traveling from far away to come. I understand if you live within an hour or a couple hours of the wedding location, but don't people want to get their hotel and flights booked in advance? I can't imagine trying to get a flight and hotel within a couple weeks of a wedding I am attending. 
    carolyncobb85 said:
    Just to note, I sent save the dates in March. People have been well aware of the date for quite a while. I discussed the RSVP-by date quite extensively with the woman we ordered the invites from, and she suggested the date we gave. Her reasoning was that people go away over the summer, and then get busy again in the fall. Putting a respond by date of September would be inviting people to forget. The invitations were sent out in June, people had almost three months to respond. I'm sorry, but that is plenty of time. 
    carolyncobb85 said:
    Right, so am I missing something? We sent save the dates several months ago. If you received one and know you are coming, why would an earlier RSVP-by date be inconvenient? Wouldn't you have already looked into booking the flight and hotel?
    So, is it that you think your guests are morons?
    You sent save the dates, they know the date.  They're adults, stop trying to micromanage their reservations.
    If you sent a STD, then the invitation serves only formality of location and specific time, they already know the date.  

    Your RSVP date is way too early.
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Right, but I'm not harping on the lagging responses of people who live far away or who are trying to coordinate schedules and what not. It is the people who I know are coming, (as they have confirmed to other people or have confirmed verbally to me). We are having a seated dinner so I need to know meal selections in order to not only give the information to the venue, but to do a cost estimate for my own sake as my fiancé and I are footing the bill for the food and bar. I don't know, perhaps I am micromanaging and/or I am expecting too much, but if someone knows they are attending, why is it difficult to check off a meal selection and put an already-stamped envelope in the mail?
    And no, I do not think my guests are morons. I am just exasperated by the lack of consideration some people seem to have. I think it is rude to expect someone to hunt you down and get your RSVP when that person is already juggling a thousand other things. We should have eloped in Vegas when we had the chance!


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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited September 2014
    banana468 said:
    Right, so am I missing something? We sent save the dates several months ago. If you received one and know you are coming, why would an earlier RSVP-by date be inconvenient? Wouldn't you have already looked into booking the flight and hotel?
    Those that could do so early would have. Those who don't have the luxury of doing so due to their own circumstances would find an early response date to be rude.
    Yep.    I can know a wedding  dates 2 years out.  Job obligations prevent us from responding before 6 weeks out.  Sometimes 4 weeks out.  It's no offense to the couple, but it just the way DH's job works.


    ETA - we are last minute bookers also.   I rarely book fights more than 50 days out.  Which is around 6 weeks.  Most of the time it's in the 4 week range.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • syoun1njsyoun1nj member
    Fourth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments Name Dropper
    OP, you may want to ask a mod to change your display name. You used your real name which makes it very easy for anyone to find you.

    And yes, your RSVP date was way too early. I'm sorry the stationary person gave you bad advice but she's a wedding vendor and not necessarily versed in proper etiquette. Many people probably don't know their work schedules for 10/25 yet. A plated meal isn't relevant to when RSVPs are due. Just relax, wait til like 10/1 at least, and then try those stragglers again if you haven't heard yet.
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  • carolyncobb85carolyncobb85 member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its
    Yes, I completely understand job obligations and do not consider a lack of prompt response rude in that respect. Again, it is only the people I *know* are coming but who failed to send their RSVPs (and much needed meal selections) that are annoying me. 
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  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    Even meal selections should only be needed a few days out.  Some places require longer.  I call BS on those who say they need them more than 3 weeks out.  I can't imagine why you would need the meal selection this far out.  It's not like they are buying the food now.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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  • misshart00misshart00 member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    lyndausvi said:

    Even meal selections should only be needed a few days out.  Some places require longer.  I call BS on those who say they need them more than 3 weeks out.  I can't imagine why you would need the meal selection this far out.  It's not like they are buying the food now.

    I don't think the venue needs numbers that far out. I think OP wants them so she knows how much they're spending.
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