Wedding Etiquette Forum

Has anyone tried Miss Manners' RSVP recommendation?

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Re: Has anyone tried Miss Manners' RSVP recommendation?

  • Aray82 said:
    Aray82 said:
    I still respond in writing. I don't have my own stationary, but I still know how to correctly respond to an invitation.
    Response cards were invented for the benefit of people that didn't have a clue how to write a polite note or even pick up a telephone. 

    Everyone should know how to do this, because not every invitation to every event carries a response card. And yes, there are still people who don't use response cards. 

    (The first time my mother saw a response card in the 80s she was frikking appalled. WTF? Someone sent her a frikking form letter, with fill in the blanks, in case she needed help. We laughed at it.)
    Unfortunately, they've become standard practice, and my own daughter used them, so she didn't confuse her friends. Because etiquette is simply not taught, anymore. That's why there are so many frikking issues with cash bars and gaps and girls screaming "it's myyyyy day." They never learned "Guests first" or "company first," which every child should grasp by age four. 

    Also unfortunately, even with the easy form fill in the blanks and I even stamped it for you, there are still people clueless enough not to bother.
    They're here to stay. And so is the response card. But it is nice to know the correct way to do things, so that if you're ever in the position, you know exactly how to behave without making yourself look like a fool.


    SIB: It is so interesting to read this because it is just completely the opposite of what I think of as the polite move (e.g., providing postage and paper for an event that you decided to host..you provide drinks, food, seats, so why not postage?). Now I want to ask my aunts who got married in the late 80s/early 90s whether they had response cards. Come to think of it, what did my mom do in the 70s?

    This weekend I was at a formal luncheon for a research conference and I was wishing I knew more about formal etiquette. There were like 5 different spoons, all different shapes and I'm sure I chose the wrong spoons for the soup and creme brulee. But the other graduate students were just as clueless about their spoon choices as I was, at least!
    I believe you start with the spoon farthest from your plate and work your way in towards your plate.

    That's what I thought too...but then there were a couple spoons at the top of the plate :O
    I believe those are dessert spoons when placed at the top of the plate.

  • CMGragain said:
    LOL!  It is the fault of public schools!  They no longer teach handwriting!  (It used to be called "penmanship".)
    No, I was taught cursive all through elementary school.  I stopped writing in cursive in highschool because I could print more legibly and faster.

    My handwriting went to shit in college when you had to write 500 miles an hour to keep up with what was going on in the lecture, and it has never recoverd.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • CMGragain said:
    LOL!  It is the fault of public schools!  They no longer teach handwriting!  (It used to be called "penmanship".)
    No, I was taught cursive all through elementary school.  I stopped writing in cursive in highschool because I could print more legibly and faster.

    My handwriting went to shit in college when you had to write 500 miles an hour to keep up with what was going on in the lecture, and it has never recovered.
    Same here.

    Also my cursvie and just basic handwriting is shit because I spend 9 hours a day typing on the computer.  I very rarely have to write anything by hand so you tend to lose the whole cursive and pretty handwriting skill.

  • Aray82 said:
    Aray82 said:
    I still respond in writing. I don't have my own stationary, but I still know how to correctly respond to an invitation.
    Response cards were invented for the benefit of people that didn't have a clue how to write a polite note or even pick up a telephone. 

    Everyone should know how to do this, because not every invitation to every event carries a response card. And yes, there are still people who don't use response cards. 

    (The first time my mother saw a response card in the 80s she was frikking appalled. WTF? Someone sent her a frikking form letter, with fill in the blanks, in case she needed help. We laughed at it.)
    Unfortunately, they've become standard practice, and my own daughter used them, so she didn't confuse her friends. Because etiquette is simply not taught, anymore. That's why there are so many frikking issues with cash bars and gaps and girls screaming "it's myyyyy day." They never learned "Guests first" or "company first," which every child should grasp by age four. 

    Also unfortunately, even with the easy form fill in the blanks and I even stamped it for you, there are still people clueless enough not to bother.
    They're here to stay. And so is the response card. But it is nice to know the correct way to do things, so that if you're ever in the position, you know exactly how to behave without making yourself look like a fool.


    SIB: It is so interesting to read this because it is just completely the opposite of what I think of as the polite move (e.g., providing postage and paper for an event that you decided to host..you provide drinks, food, seats, so why not postage?). Now I want to ask my aunts who got married in the late 80s/early 90s whether they had response cards. Come to think of it, what did my mom do in the 70s?

    This weekend I was at a formal luncheon for a research conference and I was wishing I knew more about formal etiquette. There were like 5 different spoons, all different shapes and I'm sure I chose the wrong spoons for the soup and creme brulee. But the other graduate students were just as clueless about their spoon choices as I was, at least!
    I believe you start with the spoon farthest from your plate and work your way in towards your plate.

    That's what I thought too...but then there were a couple spoons at the top of the plate :O
    Here you are, @Aray82- a road map for formal place settings, so you don't get lost in the future:image
    And remember not to butter your dinner roll all at once- put your butter pat on the bread plate, and then break off each individual bite, and butter them one at a time. I think there's an exception for sweet rolls and muffins, but you're not going to see those at a formal dinner.
    (For the record, damn I love salad knives. I just hate those giant awkward chunks of lettuce that get served at restaurants. There should be a salad knife revival. I'll get on it, when I'm finished with the handkerchief revival.)
    Ew, don't you think handkerchiefs are unsanitary?

    People blow their noses in them, then put them in their pockets to spread germs all over their clothing.  I think it's better to use disposable tissues and then wash your hands with SOAP and HOT WATER!

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • Aray82 said:
    Aray82 said:
    I still respond in writing. I don't have my own stationary, but I still know how to correctly respond to an invitation.
    Response cards were invented for the benefit of people that didn't have a clue how to write a polite note or even pick up a telephone. 

    Everyone should know how to do this, because not every invitation to every event carries a response card. And yes, there are still people who don't use response cards. 

    (The first time my mother saw a response card in the 80s she was frikking appalled. WTF? Someone sent her a frikking form letter, with fill in the blanks, in case she needed help. We laughed at it.)
    Unfortunately, they've become standard practice, and my own daughter used them, so she didn't confuse her friends. Because etiquette is simply not taught, anymore. That's why there are so many frikking issues with cash bars and gaps and girls screaming "it's myyyyy day." They never learned "Guests first" or "company first," which every child should grasp by age four. 

    Also unfortunately, even with the easy form fill in the blanks and I even stamped it for you, there are still people clueless enough not to bother.
    They're here to stay. And so is the response card. But it is nice to know the correct way to do things, so that if you're ever in the position, you know exactly how to behave without making yourself look like a fool.


    SIB: It is so interesting to read this because it is just completely the opposite of what I think of as the polite move (e.g., providing postage and paper for an event that you decided to host..you provide drinks, food, seats, so why not postage?). Now I want to ask my aunts who got married in the late 80s/early 90s whether they had response cards. Come to think of it, what did my mom do in the 70s?

    This weekend I was at a formal luncheon for a research conference and I was wishing I knew more about formal etiquette. There were like 5 different spoons, all different shapes and I'm sure I chose the wrong spoons for the soup and creme brulee. But the other graduate students were just as clueless about their spoon choices as I was, at least!
    I believe you start with the spoon farthest from your plate and work your way in towards your plate.

    That's what I thought too...but then there were a couple spoons at the top of the plate :O
    Here you are, @Aray82- a road map for formal place settings, so you don't get lost in the future:image
    And remember not to butter your dinner roll all at once- put your butter pat on the bread plate, and then break off each individual bite, and butter them one at a time. I think there's an exception for sweet rolls and muffins, but you're not going to see those at a formal dinner.
    (For the record, damn I love salad knives. I just hate those giant awkward chunks of lettuce that get served at restaurants. There should be a salad knife revival. I'll get on it, when I'm finished with the handkerchief revival.)
    Ew, don't you think handkerchiefs are unsanitary?

    People blow their noses in them, then put them in their pockets to spread germs all over their clothing.  I think it's better to use disposable tissues and then wash your hands with SOAP and HOT WATER!
    I agree.  I just can't imagine blowing into a piece of fabric over and over again throughout the day.  When I have to blow my nose I blow it once into a kleenex and then that kleenex gets thrown away.  Just the idea of using a damp-with-snot piece of fabric again grosses me out.

  • edited September 2014
    Watching ppl using handkerchiefs makes me physically gag.  Unless they are eloquently blotting sweat from their brows or wiping away a tear!

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • Watching ppl using handkerchiefs makes me physically gag.  Unless they are eloquently blotting sweat from their brows or wiping away a tear!
    OMG STORY TIME.

    So our officiant made a cute album.  Like, put a paper copy of the ceremony, the vows, everything.  We got it in the mail, started looking over it, and at the last page and slothieguy goes,

    "....wait.....is that what I think it is?"

    During our ceremony, our officiant (bless her heart) had offered me a tissue because I was starting to tear up during the vows.  I also dabbed my face because I was sweating like a mofo, and I handed it back, assuming it would end up in the proper waste receptacle.

    SHE PUT THE TISSUE IN A PLASTIC PAGE SO WE COULD KEEP IT FOREVER.

    It has like, mascara marks and foundation all over it.  slothieguy is so tickled pink and refuses to take it out.  gaaaah.
    Anniversary

    image

  • Aray82 said:
    Aray82 said:
    I still respond in writing. I don't have my own stationary, but I still know how to correctly respond to an invitation.
    Response cards were invented for the benefit of people that didn't have a clue how to write a polite note or even pick up a telephone. 

    Everyone should know how to do this, because not every invitation to every event carries a response card. And yes, there are still people who don't use response cards. 

    (The first time my mother saw a response card in the 80s she was frikking appalled. WTF? Someone sent her a frikking form letter, with fill in the blanks, in case she needed help. We laughed at it.)
    Unfortunately, they've become standard practice, and my own daughter used them, so she didn't confuse her friends. Because etiquette is simply not taught, anymore. That's why there are so many frikking issues with cash bars and gaps and girls screaming "it's myyyyy day." They never learned "Guests first" or "company first," which every child should grasp by age four. 

    Also unfortunately, even with the easy form fill in the blanks and I even stamped it for you, there are still people clueless enough not to bother.
    They're here to stay. And so is the response card. But it is nice to know the correct way to do things, so that if you're ever in the position, you know exactly how to behave without making yourself look like a fool.


    SIB: It is so interesting to read this because it is just completely the opposite of what I think of as the polite move (e.g., providing postage and paper for an event that you decided to host..you provide drinks, food, seats, so why not postage?). Now I want to ask my aunts who got married in the late 80s/early 90s whether they had response cards. Come to think of it, what did my mom do in the 70s?

    This weekend I was at a formal luncheon for a research conference and I was wishing I knew more about formal etiquette. There were like 5 different spoons, all different shapes and I'm sure I chose the wrong spoons for the soup and creme brulee. But the other graduate students were just as clueless about their spoon choices as I was, at least!
    I believe you start with the spoon farthest from your plate and work your way in towards your plate.

    That's what I thought too...but then there were a couple spoons at the top of the plate :O
    Here you are, @Aray82- a road map for formal place settings, so you don't get lost in the future:image
    And remember not to butter your dinner roll all at once- put your butter pat on the bread plate, and then break off each individual bite, and butter them one at a time. I think there's an exception for sweet rolls and muffins, but you're not going to see those at a formal dinner.
    (For the record, damn I love salad knives. I just hate those giant awkward chunks of lettuce that get served at restaurants. There should be a salad knife revival. I'll get on it, when I'm finished with the handkerchief revival.)
    Ew, don't you think handkerchiefs are unsanitary?

    People blow their noses in them, then put them in their pockets to spread germs all over their clothing.  I think it's better to use disposable tissues and then wash your hands with SOAP and HOT WATER!
    Unsanitary? Handkerchiefs? Nope, unless you're a really gross person.
    You realize that you wash them, with detergent in a washing machine. You don't reuse a dirty one, like a nose blow hanky! Yech. Gross. I really don't think normal people do that. That's like reusing toilet paper, or wearing dirty underthings. Eeeew.
    If you've blown your nose on one, it goes into the laundry. 
    If someone's ill with a flu or cold, then yes, disposable tissues. The rest of the time, not a deep concern. 
    (And why are you shouting SOAP and HOT WATER!? Do you think people who use hankies don't  know how to wash their hands?)
  • CMGragain said:

    Aray82 said:
    CMGragain said:
    LOL!  It is the fault of public schools!  They no longer teach handwriting!

    SIB: The way some of my students' handwriting looks on exams, you'd think I taught pre-school instead of college... I guess I never got offended by the address labels because that would never affect my comfort or my enjoyment of the event in the way that a cash bar, honeymoon fund, skimpy food availability, or a gap would. Is the reason for handwriting each address to make your guests feel like the invite is more personalized and you put more time and thought into issuing them an invitation?
    This is an old tradition.  Business mail was typewritten.  Personal mail was handwritten.  In a wealthy household, the butler would sort the mail, separating the personal mail from the business mail.  The business mail would be placed on the desk of the head of household.  The personal mail would be put on a silver try and presented to the lady of the house.  She weould then take the mail to her desk, and spend time responding to her personal mail each day.
    This is the tradition.
    Today, junk mail (which has only existed since WWII) is addressed with sticky labels, often to "occupant".  Many people throw it away without even opening it.
    You may not like the traditions, but they still do exist.  Miss Manners is even more conservative than I am!
    I enjoyed reading this as I found it interesting how ettiquette has changed through time. In this case, something as simple as a response card. Here I thought I was being polite self addressing them and including a stamp. Its interesting to discover the reasoning behind why response cards were once considered rude or controversial. 
  • Aray82 said:
    Aray82 said:
    I still respond in writing. I don't have my own stationary, but I still know how to correctly respond to an invitation.
    Response cards were invented for the benefit of people that didn't have a clue how to write a polite note or even pick up a telephone. 

    Everyone should know how to do this, because not every invitation to every event carries a response card. And yes, there are still people who don't use response cards. 

    (The first time my mother saw a response card in the 80s she was frikking appalled. WTF? Someone sent her a frikking form letter, with fill in the blanks, in case she needed help. We laughed at it.)
    Unfortunately, they've become standard practice, and my own daughter used them, so she didn't confuse her friends. Because etiquette is simply not taught, anymore. That's why there are so many frikking issues with cash bars and gaps and girls screaming "it's myyyyy day." They never learned "Guests first" or "company first," which every child should grasp by age four. 

    Also unfortunately, even with the easy form fill in the blanks and I even stamped it for you, there are still people clueless enough not to bother.
    They're here to stay. And so is the response card. But it is nice to know the correct way to do things, so that if you're ever in the position, you know exactly how to behave without making yourself look like a fool.


    SIB: It is so interesting to read this because it is just completely the opposite of what I think of as the polite move (e.g., providing postage and paper for an event that you decided to host..you provide drinks, food, seats, so why not postage?). Now I want to ask my aunts who got married in the late 80s/early 90s whether they had response cards. Come to think of it, what did my mom do in the 70s?

    This weekend I was at a formal luncheon for a research conference and I was wishing I knew more about formal etiquette. There were like 5 different spoons, all different shapes and I'm sure I chose the wrong spoons for the soup and creme brulee. But the other graduate students were just as clueless about their spoon choices as I was, at least!
    I believe you start with the spoon farthest from your plate and work your way in towards your plate.

    That's what I thought too...but then there were a couple spoons at the top of the plate :O
    Here you are, @Aray82- a road map for formal place settings, so you don't get lost in the future:image
    And remember not to butter your dinner roll all at once- put your butter pat on the bread plate, and then break off each individual bite, and butter them one at a time. I think there's an exception for sweet rolls and muffins, but you're not going to see those at a formal dinner.
    (For the record, damn I love salad knives. I just hate those giant awkward chunks of lettuce that get served at restaurants. There should be a salad knife revival. I'll get on it, when I'm finished with the handkerchief revival.)


    SIB: Ah yes I had heard about the butter thing at an etiquette dinner in college--that just seems so much more messy and impolite than just buttering the damn thing all at once!
  • Ok so I'm confused. Is it tradition or etiquette? What's the difference where do we draw the line. I feel like these two are used interchangeably at times and it really leads to confusion.

    As for RSVPs being rude and not Miss Manners approved I call BS. It's called evolving and keeping up with the times. Advice isn't going to be received well if it seems like the giver is out of touch with reality.
  • Ok so I'm confused. Is it tradition or etiquette? What's the difference where do we draw the line. I feel like these two are used interchangeably at times and it really leads to confusion. As for RSVPs being rude and not Miss Manners approved I call BS. It's called evolving and keeping up with the times. Advice isn't going to be received well if it seems like the giver is out of touch with reality.
    The line between the two is often blurry.  Etiquette is about how you treat other people.  Therefore, in the old days, a pre-printed response card might insult some people who would be offended by the assumption that they didn't have the good manner to write a proper response to an invitation.  I don't think that applies in 2014, though I did receive one rather huffy response from an older lady who declined to use daughter's RSVP card.
    One of the reasons I like to help out on this board is that so many young people assume that whatever their friends did is the only way to do things, and that it has been like this forever.  Etiquette does change with the times - but not enough to make a potluck wedding reception proper!
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • I won't comment on etiquette here on the condition that you do keep in mind the great etiquette advice that has already been offered in this thread. But. In terms of practicality:

    I sent out invitations to 130 people (probably only about 80-90 actual invites as many were couples), and we still have 51 individuals that have not RSVP'd. Our RSVP deadline is in 3 days. The invites included stamped and addressed response cards.

    My generation appears to be disappointingly, and intolerably rude. I am tempted to breech etiquette, on several counts, to compensate my frustration. *sigh*
  • biggrouch said:

    Unrelated: Anyone who judges me for putting printed labels on my envelopes (which I probably will do unless my fiance offers to handwrite my half of the invites as well as his, because FFS I have a demanding job and I am in graduate school) can just not come to the wedding, like, good riddance.
    I don't judge anyone for using labels--it could be for any variety of reasons, including that he/she does not believe it is time well spent.

    However, the excuse not to do things properly because one has a demanding job, school, etc., I find tedious. Lots of Knotties on here, including me, worked our little tail bones off and still managed to meet or even exceed etiquette standards. 

    OP, this is a very interesting thread! Thanks for starting the discussion. 

    Then happy I, that love and am beloved 
    Where I may not remove nor be removed.

     --William Shakespeare (Sonnet 25)

  • May I be the first to say that I don't even know cursive anymore. Like, I can't even read it.
    image
  • That is so sad.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • May I be the first to say that I don't even know cursive anymore. Like, I can't even read it.

    You are not alone. I always had trouble reading it growing up because of my horrible vision. In fact, it was written into my 504 at school that I could not be required to write in cursive and any documentation give to me by teachers had to be in print.

    That's the main reason why my signature is so illegible, but I used to joke I was practicing for when I became a doctor.

    Anniversary
  • CMGragain said:
    Ok so I'm confused. Is it tradition or etiquette? What's the difference where do we draw the line. I feel like these two are used interchangeably at times and it really leads to confusion. As for RSVPs being rude and not Miss Manners approved I call BS. It's called evolving and keeping up with the times. Advice isn't going to be received well if it seems like the giver is out of touch with reality.
    The line between the two is often blurry.  Etiquette is about how you treat other people.  Therefore, in the old days, a pre-printed response card might insult some people who would be offended by the assumption that they didn't have the good manner to write a proper response to an invitation.  I don't think that applies in 2014, though I did receive one rather huffy response from an older lady who declined to use daughter's RSVP card.
    One of the reasons I like to help out on this board is that so many young people assume that whatever their friends did is the only way to do things, and that it has been like this forever.  Etiquette does change with the times - but not enough to make a potluck wedding reception proper!
    When your daughter decided to include RSVP cards in her wedding invitations, what was your reaction to that?  Did you agree with her decision or try to talk her out of it?  I'm just curious because you're one of the most traditional posters here.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    10000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 25 Answers
    edited September 2014
    While I helped my daughter with wording, I did not dictate to her what she could and could not do.  She chose her own invitation design, and she used a postcard RSVP, as well as the Knot, and telephone options.  I paid for them.  The postcard RSVPs came to me, since we were hosting the wedding, and I am better organized. We communicated about the numbers every day.  The groom's family is also conservative, and from the south.
    I did tell her that she would pay for her own STDs.  I don't understand them, except for out of town guests who must make arrangements, and we only had a few of those.  She sent some very quirky ones to all her friends who were invited..  She also paid for the favors, which I think are unnecessary. 

    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg

  • CMGragain said:
    While I helped my daughter with wording, I did not dictate to her what she could and could not do.  She chose her own invitation design, and she used a postcard RSVP, as well as the Knot, and telephone options.  I paid for them.  The postcard RSVPs came to me, since we were hosting the wedding, and I am better organized. We communicated about the numbers every day.  The groom's family is also conservative, and from the south.
    I did tell her that she would pay for her own STDs.  I don't understand them, except for out of town guests who must make arrangements, and we only had a few of those.  She sent some very quirky ones to all her friends who were invited..  She also paid for the favors, which I think are unnecessary. 

    Ditto this almost exactly. Not my wedding, not my friends, not my invitations. And the STD thing, exactly. 
    Favors, I love. Because I'm sort of childish and get excited about treats. ;)

  • CMGragain said:
    While I helped my daughter with wording, I did not dictate to her what she could and could not do.  She chose her own invitation design, and she used a postcard RSVP, as well as the Knot, and telephone options.  I paid for them.  The postcard RSVPs came to me, since we were hosting the wedding, and I am better organized. We communicated about the numbers every day.  The groom's family is also conservative, and from the south.
    I did tell her that she would pay for her own STDs.  I don't understand them, except for out of town guests who must make arrangements, and we only had a few of those.  She sent some very quirky ones to all her friends who were invited..  She also paid for the favors, which I think are unnecessary. 

    Ditto this almost exactly. Not my wedding, not my friends, not my invitations. And the STD thing, exactly. 
    Favors, I love. Because I'm sort of childish and get excited about treats. ;)

    SIB: @ohannabelle, do you perchance live in the Connecticut/NYC area? Because I have a ton of Lindt truffles left over from my favor bags and would gladly drive by your house and throw some onto your porch. We've got milk chocolate, hazelnut, and white chocolate!

    My sister isn't doing STDs since all of her and her FI's guests will be local, but we did for our several out-of-towners, especially FI's family, just so we could get them the accommodation info and flight-booking info right away. We of course spread it by word of mouth too, but I've always liked having a paper reminder as a guest to get moving on travel plans for things that would otherwise be expensive to do last-minute. 
  • marie2785marie2785 member
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited October 2014
    biggrouch said:

    The saddest part is that you will ALSO get judged by people on here if you put "RSVP: my.name@gmail.com" on the top left of your invites, even though that is ALSO easier for most of your guests than if you asked them to RSVP to a postal address.

    I've been invited to 3-4 weddings over the past year. 2 of them just provided the email option--no return card. I thought it was a great idea, since I will remember to send an email, but I am terrible about mailing things (I have "millennial brain" according to my FI). Not sure what my invite plan is yet, but RSVPing via email is definitely an option I'm considering. 

  • biggrouch said:
    The saddest part is that you will ALSO get judged by people on here if you put "RSVP: my.name@gmail.com" on the top left of your invites, even though that is ALSO easier for most of your guests than if you asked them to RSVP to a postal address.


    Yes!  The message "RSVP my name @gmail.com" goes in the BOTTOM LEFT of the invitation.  Nothing wrong with it.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • CMGragain said:
    While I helped my daughter with wording, I did not dictate to her what she could and could not do.  She chose her own invitation design, and she used a postcard RSVP, as well as the Knot, and telephone options.  I paid for them.  The postcard RSVPs came to me, since we were hosting the wedding, and I am better organized. We communicated about the numbers every day.  The groom's family is also conservative, and from the south.
    I did tell her that she would pay for her own STDs.  I don't understand them, except for out of town guests who must make arrangements, and we only had a few of those.  She sent some very quirky ones to all her friends who were invited..  She also paid for the favors, which I think are unnecessary. 

    I think they are uneccesary too and didn't bother with them. My MIL kept pushing me to do them and I kept explaining that if she really wanted them and was willing to spend her time and money to do them she could do whatever favor she wished. She eventually agreed they were not necessary either and no one asked me at the wedding where their favor was. 

    I only used STdates because it was an out of town wedding and I wanted folks to be prepared for that. Although, they seem kind of pointless to me and another unecessary expense. 
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