NWR: National Anthem Etiquette

kmmssg · October 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

I do not like when men keep their hats on during the anthem. I also do not like when parade watchers remain seated when color guards and/or armed forces march in front of the crowd.

My love/hate relationship with showing respect for the anthem happens during hockey season. For the past 20-30 years, at Blackhawk games, it has become tradition to cheer and yell as loud as possible throughout the duration of the anthem. The intent is respect, but I have always had mixed feelings about the way that respect is shown. However, if you witness it firsthand, it sends chills up your spine. No one sings it better than Jim Cornelison.
I fucking hate that! It's not respectful at all, it's disrespectful to the anthem and the performer. However I don't think applause at the end of the anthem is disrespectful at all. It's a difficult song to sing, and the performers deserve sone kudos for pulling it off in front of large, rowdy crowds of sports fans. Even those who can't actually pull the anthem off plenty can't but think they can- also deserve kudos for having the balls to try. The hand over your heart seems to be regional or perhaps generational. We were taught to place our hands over our hearts during the Pledge of Allegiance, not the Anthem. . . Which was actually penned to a tune all about the virtues of drinking and sex.

You know, I grew up in a house that didn't watch sports. My Aunt didn't like sports so my (ever so wonderful, but exceedingly henpecked) Uncle didn't watch sports. He would listen to the Cincinnatti Reds on the radio, and on the rarest of occasions he would catch some on TV.

My ex-h was an over the top sports freak and it ruled what we did and how he treated us post-game. He was the biggest jerk if his teams lost and when we divorced 28 years ago, he got custody of the sports and I got the kids.

DH will watch NASCAR, and will follow MSU vs UofM games. That's it. My girls are sports freaks but not to the extent their father is. Thank God. So I guess all of that is to say I am not slamming anyone who enjoys sports and I don't want that to be perceived here. BUT..I am beyond mortified at the bolded. I had no idea this occurs because - hey, I don't watch sports.

You have got to be kidding! Deciding you can scream through the National Anthem and that this is an acceptable thing absolutely blows my mind. That is nothing but blatant disrespect. I seriously can't wrap my mind around how that could be ok anywhere.

kmmssg · October 2014

lolo883 said:

I was taught that you always remove your hat, put your hand over your heart (unless in uniform), and face the flag -respectfully silent - for the duration of the anthem. (Two military parents.) I was never told not to applaud the anthem, and it doesn't bother me when/if people do, EXCEPT when they start cheering after the damn high note on "free" and keep hooting and hollering through the end of the song. No. STFU til it's over, you heathens.

I seriously love you lolo

ShesSoCold · October 2014

scribe95 said:

I have been to a Blackhawks game and will admit that when you are there in the stadium it feels powerful and patriotic. But stepping back from that it is obviously rude. In no other place would we tell our kids to do that.

Here is a link if people want to see a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJT9K2APvas

This. It just...it feels so cool. It's hard to describe. I get that it sounds very wrong but it's the coolest feeling when you're there.

PrettyGirlLost · October 2014

scribe95 said:

I have been to a Blackhawks game and will admit that when you are there in the stadium it feels powerful and patriotic. But stepping back from that it is obviously rude. In no other place would we tell our kids to do that.

Here is a link if people want to see a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJT9K2APvas

I love you guys, but ouch, my ears! That sounds a hot mess! That is just as bad as the unholy cacophony constantly in the background of any World Cup type soccer game.

The fans are so loud that the singer is practically shouting the entire anthem. . . I trained as a vocalist for a while and I can tell you that he's not just "projecting" or "Belting," he's shouting.

To me a well sung Star Spangled Banner gives me chills and is powerful and patriotic in its own right.

PrettyGirlLost · October 2014

Maggie0829 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Maggie0829 said:

ShesSoCold said:

I also get pissed at people and usually say something to people who don't remove their hats. At Bears games, they always bring out a veteran and salute him or her - I also bitch at people who don't stand then.

I agree with most of PPs, except at Blackhawks games, we cheer through the anthem. It's a tradition that's like 20 years old. We have the best anthem singers I've ever heard and it's so cool to be there with him singing and everyone cheering. I love it. There's always a debate and controversy over it, but it's not meant as disrespect, more of what @Maggie0829 said - it's an enthusiastic "fuck yeah" kind of thing.

That is how our "O" thing is in Maryland. It started only at Orioles games but now it is a Maryland thing. If people don't like it, oh well, but I will still yell it loud and proud. Also since the National Anthem was written in Baltimore I feel like we should get a pass

Lol, I don't think it works that way.

And how can any 'Hawks fans ever hear the anthem singer to appreciate him, if he really is the best, if you are all screaming through his song? To me that is equivalent to people screaming through my aria while I'm trying to perform in an Opera- yeah you might mean it as support and a "fuck yeah, you go" but you're gonna piss me off! He's used to it, I know, but it just rubs me the wrong way.

But hockey players and fans are bizzare with their superstitions, so I'm sure that more than the tradition of it, you all have to keep it up otherwise the 'Hawks will never make it to the play-offs and the arena will crack and collapse ;-) I know how it is!

There was once an anthem singer back in the early 90's that took 10mins to sing the anthem- like wtf?! Well the Pens had like the worst game in history apparently that night, so their goalie at the time demanded that from then on all performers had to keep the anthem to under 2mins. I got to perform it once and this is what I was told my the coordinator, lol.

I hated that goalie anyways- prima donna pain in the ass- but I'd never want to jinx the rest o the team!!!

10 minutes?! That is crazy ridiculous. The goalie probably just didn't want to sit through a 10 minute version of the National Anthem again because I know I wouldn't.

The Anthem should never take 10mins. . . but it does if you are showboating and adding grace notes every fucking syllable like a Christina Aguilera song! I hate that too. Just sing the fucking song as it is written.

But that said, this was Tom Barrasso, who was super super superstitious and also kinda of a general pain in the ass ;-)

lovesclimbing · October 2014

I always thought that the applause at the end of the song was applauding for the person singing, not for the game. It's a hard song to sing! I also have rarely heard the national anthem sung at anything other than a game (in response to people who've said the applause is due to the game starting). A flag day celebration earlier this summer, I suppose, would be the exception, and everyone clapped for the singer.

I was always taught that guys remove hats and you stand and put your hand over your heart. Nowadays, they always announce to "remove your hats" because half the guys don't remember too. So disrespectful!

tigersgirlgv · October 2014

When I was in band, our director told us that people weren't supposed to cheer after we played the National Anthem. I'm not exactly sure why; I think it has something to do with that we're playing it to honor the country not ourselves, maybe.

[Deleted User] · October 2014

tigersgirlgv said:

When I was in band, our director told us that people weren't supposed to cheer after we played the National Anthem. I'm not exactly sure why; I think it has something to do with that we're playing it to honor the country not ourselves, maybe.

That's the same reason people don't clap for the choir in church. They're singing to honor God, not themselves.

emmaaa · October 2014

Yes, as PP's have said, hats should always be removed for the National Anthem. I've always held my hand over my heart for the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem. And I will admit, I enjoy clapping after the anthem finishes. I feel like you're cheering for your country. But what @tigersgirlgv said about honoring the country and not ourselves makes a lot of sense.

You know what's worse than not taking your hat off for the National Anthem. Completely disrespecting it and the honor of singing it...like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1-jWl0O34U (can't embed video) Rosanne Barr...

lilacck28 · October 2014

My dad and brother and Fiance always take their hats off, because they don't like making waves and we're not religious, but my dad also taught me that the tradition of removing hats is really a Christian one.

In Judaism, it is respectful to always keep your head covered (hence yarmulkes, but this also applies to just wearing any old hat. It's seen as disrespectful to take it off.) I've always been very conscious of the fact that its one of those "majority rules" things to take off a hat during school, or during the national anthem... So, you do it to fit in, but it's also not as respectful as everyone always implies. In fact, forcing people to remove their hats is disrespectful to certain cultures.

And for those people that you witness not taking off their hats... well... maybe that's why they don't. They are showing respect in their own way. OR, maybe they're lazy jerks. You never know.

[Deleted User] · October 2014

I am usually a passive person..until it comes to this. Yes you remove your hat and YES you stand, stop talking or walking when the colors are presented. And yes I have said it to a few people.

They love to be called out. HA.

doeydo · October 2014

adk19 said:

tigersgirlgv said:

When I was in band, our director told us that people weren't supposed to cheer after we played the National Anthem. I'm not exactly sure why; I think it has something to do with that we're playing it to honor the country not ourselves, maybe.

That's the same reason people don't clap for the choir in church. They're singing to honor God, not themselves.

I was raised attending an LDS church, and everyone as a congregation would sing songs occasionally and then just sit back down and sometimes some other people (ie. a group from the young women group) would go up and sing a song and no one ever clapped. It would be very inappropriate. However, there was a newcomer one day and he started clapping after a song, and one of the members clued him in and then he seemed to be embarrassed and confused as to why clapping is not done after it. To me, it is not done because the songs are not a performance, it is done to honour and celebrate god.

[Deleted User] · October 2014

lilacck28 said:

My dad and brother and Fiance always take their hats off, because they don't like making waves and we're not religious, but my dad also taught me that the tradition of removing hats is really a Christian one.

In Judaism, it is respectful to always keep your head covered (hence yarmulkes, but this also applies to just wearing any old hat. It's seen as disrespectful to take it off.) I've always been very conscious of the fact that its one of those "majority rules" things to take off a hat during school, or during the national anthem... So, you do it to fit in, but it's also not as respectful as everyone always implies. In fact, forcing people to remove their hats is disrespectful to certain cultures.

And for those people that you witness not taking off their hats... well... maybe that's why they don't. They are showing respect in their own way. OR, maybe they're lazy jerks. You never know.

*SIB* In this case I think your dad may be wrong... or may be reaching. Yes it is correct about the Jewish head convering but from Emily Post Emily Post, in 1922, says “It is not necessary to add that every American male citizen stands with his hat off at the passing of the ‘colors’ and when the national anthem is played. If he didn’t, some other more loyal citizen would take it off for him.” It would seem to me that this act of forcing someone to remove their hat would actually disrespect the flag and what it stands for with the more “loyal citizen” she describes, actually more or less spitting on what the flag and the anthem represent.

Some people really do take offense me being one of them. Not sure why it really rubs me the wrong way but to me it's very disrespectful to not remove your hat.. to me it is like spitting on the flag.

blabla89 · October 2014

RachelLee83 said:

lilacck28 said:

My dad and brother and Fiance always take their hats off, because they don't like making waves and we're not religious, but my dad also taught me that the tradition of removing hats is really a Christian one.

In Judaism, it is respectful to always keep your head covered (hence yarmulkes, but this also applies to just wearing any old hat. It's seen as disrespectful to take it off.) I've always been very conscious of the fact that its one of those "majority rules" things to take off a hat during school, or during the national anthem... So, you do it to fit in, but it's also not as respectful as everyone always implies. In fact, forcing people to remove their hats is disrespectful to certain cultures.

And for those people that you witness not taking off their hats... well... maybe that's why they don't. They are showing respect in their own way. OR, maybe they're lazy jerks. You never know.

*SIB* In this case I think your dad may be wrong... or may be reaching. Yes it is correct about the Jewish head convering but from Emily Post Emily Post, in 1922, says “It is not necessary to add that every American male citizen stands with his hat off at the passing of the ‘colors’ and when the national anthem is played. If he didn’t, some other more loyal citizen would take it off for him.” It would seem to me that this act of forcing someone to remove their hat would actually disrespect the flag and what it stands for with the more “loyal citizen” she describes, actually more or less spitting on what the flag and the anthem represent.

Some people really do take offense me being one of them. Not sure why it really rubs me the wrong way but to me it's very disrespectful to not remove your hat.. to me it is like spitting on the flag.

So...specifically regarding the sporting event that led me to ask about this, the people I noticed not removing their hats (mostly obnoxious fans of the visiting team) certainly didn't appear to be Jewish. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone with a religious conviction to remove their head covering, but that didn't seem to be the case at all. Maybe lazy, maybe a regional thing, maybe they had really never heard of it.

lilacck28 · October 2014

My point was only that, though they may not APPEAR Jewish (aka, very religious/ orthodox and wearing the traditional garb) some people who do not take off their hats could be part of a culture or religion wherein it is actually polite to leave a hat of some sort on their heads. Culture or religion is not something you can usually tell just by looking at a person.

lurkergirl · October 2014

Well, Corinthians says that men shouldn't cover their heads (and long hair is considered a covering) and women are glorified by covering their heads (and again long hair is considered a covering), BUT that passage is really talking about prayer not every day behavior.

The way I see it is that hats (not fashion hats for women, but all other hats) are functional attire. They exist to protect you from outdoor elements (they offer shade, warmth, possibly rain protection), so why wear them inside?

It's also just a respect thing. Why do you remove your hat when you enter someone's home? I don't know...why don't we put our elbows on the table? It's just good manners.

CMGragain · October 2014

Try teaching high school. When the pledge is recited there are always entitled brats who refuse to stand. No, it isn't for religious reasons. It is about being spoiled brats who don't care about anyone else but themselves. This is one of the few things that can make me really angry.

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