At What Point is Crowd Funding OK?

AddieCake · November 2014

I agree, Doeydo, that you are oversimplifying and being rather cold in your response. As PPs have said, being prepared financially for an assortment of unfortunate events is one thing. To be prepared for multiple, large-scale tragedies is quite another. That being said, I always side-eye asking for money for oneself. I would not side-eye someone else setting up a fund for them, however. Last year, my oldest childhood friend and her children lost everything in a tornado. Another childhood friend set up something to take donations, and I gladly donated to that.

LabLove86 · November 2014

daria24 said:

Doey, your privilege is showing.

This encompasses most of how I feel about this thread. It is also not the first time we've had to state that as much as pets mean to people - pets =/= humans. I love my cats, I do - but they are not humans. They have personalities, they are part of my family, and they mean more to me than most people in my life. But they are still not humans.

Also have to echo @WinstonsGirl that there are pros and cons to both health care systems. Canada's is not as perfect as you are thinking. US's is obviously not perfect either. And I can't just go to Canada and say - "Hi! I live here now! Give me coverage!!" It doesn't work like that.

@Doeydo - I generally agree with your posts and think you give pretty good advice. But I feel differently about your viewpoint in this thread.

As for the ACTUAL point of this thread - I wouldn't side-eye a GFM such as this one. I agree w/ PP that doing it through a bank/fundraising/other source would be better for the family as they would get 100% of the proceeds.

As for the girl on my Facebook feed who needs $450 for Reiki training?? Its $450. I get you live paycheck to paycheck - and it may take you a while to save - but save. Don't ask someone else to pay for that shit for you.

yogapants · November 2014

Lurker de-lurking to say that you sound both self-righteous and uninformed, doeydo, which is a terrible combination.

I've found that most of the time it's not even the person directly affected by the tragedy that makes the gofundme or whatever. It's often a friend, neighbor, etc. who sees the need and steps in. I cannot imagine side-eying this kind of crowd funding. Are you kidding me? Two of their children were grievously injured in a hit-and-run. One is losing his LEG. He's going to be disabled for the rest of his life. The other boy may need to be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life, depending on the severity of his head/brain injuries. There's no way to plan for that, and the suggestion that they should've planned better by emigrating is asinine. Emigration can take years and thousands of dollars, and it means leaving behind family, friends, potentially pets ("fur babies", fuck*) unless you're willing to put them in a 6-month quarantine, etc. And it may require sponsorship from a company or having an in-demand skill to even begin the process of applying for a work visa. You can't "just move" to another country.

So no, OP, I don't side-eye this kind of crowd funding. But my eyes are bugging out of my head at this thread.

*I've paid for surgery for a cat before. It was $1200. But if I had to pay a grand for surgery and they amputated the cat's leg, okay. After the surgery, I didn't have to worry about potential long-term care for the cat (either providing care for the cat well after when it should be able to function as an adult, or paying someone to come to the home, or paying to put the cat in a facility - this is about the possibly brain-damaged boy, obviously), applying for disability for the cat, getting an IEP for the cat so that it has accommodations in school, what kind of job the cat might be able to do when it grows up, on and on and on. There is no comparison here between paying for surgery for a pet and amputating the leg of a child or dealing with long-term brain damage. None.

theartistformerlyknownas · November 2014

doeydo said:

Was there not a post a while ago on here asking if crowd funding in a certain situation was OK or not? I think it involved someone with cancer or some type of disease, and the general consensus was OK if some random person started it up. but not OK if it was the spouse/parent/person themselves kind of thing.
Also, I believe there was also talk on here about whether people should be pet parents or parents in general if they would not be able to afford if something came up. Kind of like the life is like a box of chocolates kind of thing, sometimes you get a mouthful of cappuccino or some shit.

Do you form any of your opinions about life on actual real-world knowledge and experience, or just interpreting things you see other people on TK say?

NOBODY can ever be prepared for all disasters/catastrophe. That's what makes them disasters. It's beyond ignorant to say people just should have planned better or else they're shit out of luck. All anyone can do is try their hardest to be, let's say, 75% prepared for 75% of the things that might strike any of us. Sometimes shit happens that we just could not expect or plan for. In those cases, sometimes we get help from other people, other times we do end up shit outta luck, or struggling for a while. You can't blame people for not thinking of the unthinkable. People set up college funds for their kids, not "leg amputation after a hit and run" funds.

And for the love of fuck, PEOPLE >>>> PETS. Not even remotely close to the same thing.

In the OP's case, I don't take issue with someone aside from the parents taking up a collection to help the family with these UNFORESEEABLE expenses. I agree I would rather contribute to something at a bank than something that takes a cut, but understand when people choose the convenience of GFM.

doeydo · November 2014

lolo883 said:

doeydo said:

Was there not a post a while ago on here asking if crowd funding in a certain situation was OK or not? I think it involved someone with cancer or some type of disease, and the general consensus was OK if some random person started it up. but not OK if it was the spouse/parent/person themselves kind of thing.
Also, I believe there was also talk on here about whether people should be pet parents or parents in general if they would not be able to afford if something came up. Kind of like the life is like a box of chocolates kind of thing, sometimes you get a mouthful of cappuccino or some shit.

Do you form any of your opinions about life on actual real-world knowledge and experience, or just interpreting things you see other people on TK say?

NOBODY can ever be prepared for all disasters/catastrophe. That's what makes them disasters. It's beyond ignorant to say people just should have planned better or else they're shit out of luck. All anyone can do is try their hardest to be, let's say, 75% prepared for 75% of the things that might strike any of us. Sometimes shit happens that we just could not expect or plan for. In those cases, sometimes we get help from other people, other times we do end up shit outta luck, or struggling for a while. You can't blame people for not thinking of the unthinkable. People set up college funds for their kids, not "leg amputation after a hit and run" funds.

And for the love of fuck, PEOPLE >>>> PETS. Not even remotely close to the same thing.
Not getting into that again. Maybe that's what it is like for you, but certainly not for me.

In the OP's case, I don't take issue with someone aside from the parents taking up a collection to help the family with these UNFORESEEABLE expenses. I agree I would rather contribute to something at a bank than something that takes a cut, but understand when people choose the convenience of GFM.
I agree. I apologize if I was not clear before about that.

ohmrs2014 · November 2014

Thanks everyone. Myself and another person were going to set it up, but their oldest brother already did.

This was definitely a tragedy that no one can prepare for no matter how good you are at saving. While I'm not going to name specific people, I am appalled at some of the response, though I know I should expect that since its a public forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

ashley8918 · November 2014

@yogapants

kmmssg · November 2014

I would not side eye this situation at all. I know 2 people who have gone completely bankrupt over medical bills.

One is an older gentleman who is living his retirement years in a rooming house because he had over 2 million dollars in medical bills from 2 separate open heart surgeries. He could not get insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

Doeydo - yeah, your privilege is definitely showing and it isn't pretty.

theartistformerlyknownas · November 2014

yogapants said:

Lurker de-lurking to say that you sound both self-righteous and uninformed, doeydo, which is a terrible combination.

I've found that most of the time it's not even the person directly affected by the tragedy that makes the gofundme or whatever. It's often a friend, neighbor, etc. who sees the need and steps in. I cannot imagine side-eying this kind of crowd funding. Are you kidding me? Two of their children were grievously injured in a hit-and-run. One is losing his LEG. He's going to be disabled for the rest of his life. The other boy may need to be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life, depending on the severity of his head/brain injuries. There's no way to plan for that, and the suggestion that they should've planned better by emigrating is asinine. Emigration can take years and thousands of dollars, and it means leaving behind family, friends, potentially pets ("fur babies", fuck*) unless you're willing to put them in a 6-month quarantine, etc. And it may require sponsorship from a company or having an in-demand skill to even begin the process of applying for a work visa. You can't "just move" to another country.

So no, OP, I don't side-eye this kind of crowd funding. But my eyes are bugging out of my head at this thread.

*I've paid for surgery for a cat before. It was $1200. But if I had to pay a grand for surgery and they amputated the cat's leg, okay. After the surgery, I didn't have to worry about potential long-term care for the cat (either providing care for the cat well after when it should be able to function as an adult, or paying someone to come to the home, or paying to put the cat in a facility - this is about the possibly brain-damaged boy, obviously), applying for disability for the cat, getting an IEP for the cat so that it has accommodations in school, what kind of job the cat might be able to do when it grows up, on and on and on. There is no comparison here between paying for surgery for a pet and amputating the leg of a child or dealing with long-term brain damage. None.

You also don't have to consider the lifetime potential of a cat when considering the level of care and money you're willing to spend and time you're willing to devote to saving it. You don't think about your cat graduating high school, college, falling in love, raising a family. Whether your cat could grow up to be president, or cure cancer, or find life on another planet. Whether your cat will inspire millions of people with an art form or a physical skill. When you give EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to save your child, you don't do it just because you love the kid. You do it for ALL the reasons you hope a person has a long, healthy, fulfilling and fulfilled life. You put your heart and soul into a child hoping that their being and their presence in this world will make it a better place, whether it's just to one person or to billions.

All you have to think about with a cat is "this cat makes me happy when he purrs on my chest, and could continue to make me happy for the next x years if I spend this $x on this treatment. I could get a different cat, but he might not make me quite as happy, so I'll save this cat." NO. FUCKING. COMPARISON.

LabLove86 · November 2014

doeydo said:

lolo883 said:

doeydo said:

Was there not a post a while ago on here asking if crowd funding in a certain situation was OK or not? I think it involved someone with cancer or some type of disease, and the general consensus was OK if some random person started it up. but not OK if it was the spouse/parent/person themselves kind of thing.
Also, I believe there was also talk on here about whether people should be pet parents or parents in general if they would not be able to afford if something came up. Kind of like the life is like a box of chocolates kind of thing, sometimes you get a mouthful of cappuccino or some shit.

Do you form any of your opinions about life on actual real-world knowledge and experience, or just interpreting things you see other people on TK say?

NOBODY can ever be prepared for all disasters/catastrophe. That's what makes them disasters. It's beyond ignorant to say people just should have planned better or else they're shit out of luck. All anyone can do is try their hardest to be, let's say, 75% prepared for 75% of the things that might strike any of us. Sometimes shit happens that we just could not expect or plan for. In those cases, sometimes we get help from other people, other times we do end up shit outta luck, or struggling for a while. You can't blame people for not thinking of the unthinkable. People set up college funds for their kids, not "leg amputation after a hit and run" funds.

And for the love of fuck, PEOPLE >>>> PETS. Not even remotely close to the same thing.
Not getting into that again. Maybe that's what it is like for you, but certainly not for me.

In the OP's case, I don't take issue with someone aside from the parents taking up a collection to help the family with these UNFORESEEABLE expenses. I agree I would rather contribute to something at a bank than something that takes a cut, but understand when people choose the convenience of GFM.
I agree. I apologize if I was not clear before about that.

It doesn't matter how you feel about your pets. The law sees them as property. (Tough to hear but the truth)

You can have your opinion and thats fine.

Animals are simply =/= to humans. Animals should be treated fairly - don't get me wrong. They are still living beings and should be respected and not harmed.

But lolo is correct. People >>> Pets. Sorry.

theartistformerlyknownas · November 2014

doeydo said:

And for the love of fuck, PEOPLE >>>> PETS. Not even remotely close to the same thing.
Not getting into that again. Maybe that's what it is like for you, but certainly not for me.

All I can say is the people in your life must be pretty fucking terrible if they're on even par with your pets. Sorry not sorry. I love my dog but if a choice ever had to be made between him and a person, I pick the person. Even a stranger. If someone's pet and someone's child both needed money for an emergency surgery, I pick the person.

If you have a baby that's allergic to cats, are you gonna get rid of the cat or the baby?

If you can only afford food for one mouth, do you feed the cat or the baby?

If there's a fire and you can only save one, do you save the cat or the baby?

PEOPLE > PETS. EVERY TIME. Your priorities are WRONG and it's not a matter of opinion. You are WRONG. If you picked the cat in any of those scenarios you are a terrible person.

ohannabelle · November 2014

ashley8918 said:

chibiyui said:
That's classist as fuck. Why don't you tell poor people to avoid getting cancer while you're at it.

Amen, x 1000.

I had to delete 50% of what I wrote here, because it would probably get me banned.

Basically, Doeydo, the only things you've said that are even remotely sensible are "IDK" and "I can't imagine."

Your ignorance, once again, astounds me. And when I say astounds, I mean puke actually rises in my throat.

OP:

I almost always side eye funds set up by the actual recipients, and prefer them to be set up by community or outside organizations, but would absolutely give a pass in this situation if the parents asked for help, simply because I understand that people devastated by fear and tragedy often make decisions that they might not normally make, and are probably too distraught to think about social niceties.

If it was set up by friends or family, I would not side eye it at all.

doeydo · November 2014

lolo883 said:

yogapants said:

Lurker de-lurking to say that you sound both self-righteous and uninformed, doeydo, which is a terrible combination.

I've found that most of the time it's not even the person directly affected by the tragedy that makes the gofundme or whatever. It's often a friend, neighbor, etc. who sees the need and steps in. I cannot imagine side-eying this kind of crowd funding. Are you kidding me? Two of their children were grievously injured in a hit-and-run. One is losing his LEG. He's going to be disabled for the rest of his life. The other boy may need to be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life, depending on the severity of his head/brain injuries. There's no way to plan for that, and the suggestion that they should've planned better by emigrating is asinine. Emigration can take years and thousands of dollars, and it means leaving behind family, friends, potentially pets ("fur babies", fuck*) unless you're willing to put them in a 6-month quarantine, etc. And it may require sponsorship from a company or having an in-demand skill to even begin the process of applying for a work visa. You can't "just move" to another country.

So no, OP, I don't side-eye this kind of crowd funding. But my eyes are bugging out of my head at this thread.

*I've paid for surgery for a cat before. It was $1200. But if I had to pay a grand for surgery and they amputated the cat's leg, okay. After the surgery, I didn't have to worry about potential long-term care for the cat (either providing care for the cat well after when it should be able to function as an adult, or paying someone to come to the home, or paying to put the cat in a facility - this is about the possibly brain-damaged boy, obviously), applying for disability for the cat, getting an IEP for the cat so that it has accommodations in school, what kind of job the cat might be able to do when it grows up, on and on and on. There is no comparison here between paying for surgery for a pet and amputating the leg of a child or dealing with long-term brain damage. None.

You also don't have to consider the lifetime potential of a cat when considering the level of care and money you're willing to spend and time you're willing to devote to saving it. You don't think about your cat graduating high school, college, falling in love, raising a family. Whether your cat could grow up to be president, or cure cancer, or find life on another planet. Whether your cat will inspire millions of people with an art form or a physical skill. When you give EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to save your child, you don't do it just because you love the kid. You do it for ALL the reasons you hope a person has a long, healthy, fulfilling and fulfilled life. You put your heart and soul into a child hoping that their being and their presence in this world will make it a better place, whether it's just to one person or to billions.

All you have to think about with a cat is "this cat makes me happy when he purrs on my chest, and could continue to make me happy for the next x years if I spend this $x on this treatment. I could get a different cat, but he might not make me quite as happy, so I'll save this cat." NO. FUCKING. COMPARISON.

So if a person has zero chance of doing any of the bolded (let's say the person is in a wheel chair and cannot express themselves other than pointing to something on a mat thing in front of them ie. a picture of food when they are hungry), their lives don't matter as much as someone who is brilliant and might go on to do great things? And let's be honest, most people in the world are not extraordinary. They just go about their daily lives and die and when their friends and family die nothing from them will be remembered, just the facts. Sure, parents think their little SS is amazeballs, but they probably aren't.

Also, a cat can absolutely inspire people and do amazing things (not saying my cats would, just that they can). I mean look at how amazing Lil Bub is, she is such an inspiration and a happy little girl http://www.buzzfeed.com/samimain/lil-bub-continues-to-be-an-amazing-inspiration-to-everybody
And cats like Princess Monster Truck have become "spokespersons" for adoption, black cat equality, and adopting a pet even though they might be ugly to some people http://www.princessmonstertruck.com/about
And hero cats http://www.today.com/pets/good-kitty-these-6-hero-cats-saved-humans-they-loved-2D79677090

The last bit you said about why I would save my cats, that I am doing it for me so I can get cuddles I am not even going to respond to.

yogapants · November 2014

Lord, give me patience.

doeydo · November 2014

But whatever, I guess I disagree with y'all that asking for money on the internet is OK or not (to clarify again, no problem in my book if someone makes a crowd fund for someone else). We have also already been over how my views on animals differ from yours.

There's no point in going on in a circle. You have your opinions on these things and I have mine. I don't hold anything against any of you.

STARMOON44 · November 2014

Wait.

You actually just compared people in wheel chairs to Lil Bub.

Wow.

Can we all just pause there for a sec?

ashley8918 · November 2014

STARMOON44 said:

Wait. You actually just compared people in wheel chairs to Lil Bub. Wow. Can we all just pause there for a sec?

I fucking can't even. NOPENOPENOPE.

doeydo · November 2014

DD. never mind.

theartistformerlyknownas · November 2014

doeydo said:

lolo883 said:

yogapants said:

Lurker de-lurking to say that you sound both self-righteous and uninformed, doeydo, which is a terrible combination.

I've found that most of the time it's not even the person directly affected by the tragedy that makes the gofundme or whatever. It's often a friend, neighbor, etc. who sees the need and steps in. I cannot imagine side-eying this kind of crowd funding. Are you kidding me? Two of their children were grievously injured in a hit-and-run. One is losing his LEG. He's going to be disabled for the rest of his life. The other boy may need to be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life, depending on the severity of his head/brain injuries. There's no way to plan for that, and the suggestion that they should've planned better by emigrating is asinine. Emigration can take years and thousands of dollars, and it means leaving behind family, friends, potentially pets ("fur babies", fuck*) unless you're willing to put them in a 6-month quarantine, etc. And it may require sponsorship from a company or having an in-demand skill to even begin the process of applying for a work visa. You can't "just move" to another country.

So no, OP, I don't side-eye this kind of crowd funding. But my eyes are bugging out of my head at this thread.

*I've paid for surgery for a cat before. It was $1200. But if I had to pay a grand for surgery and they amputated the cat's leg, okay. After the surgery, I didn't have to worry about potential long-term care for the cat (either providing care for the cat well after when it should be able to function as an adult, or paying someone to come to the home, or paying to put the cat in a facility - this is about the possibly brain-damaged boy, obviously), applying for disability for the cat, getting an IEP for the cat so that it has accommodations in school, what kind of job the cat might be able to do when it grows up, on and on and on. There is no comparison here between paying for surgery for a pet and amputating the leg of a child or dealing with long-term brain damage. None.

You also don't have to consider the lifetime potential of a cat when considering the level of care and money you're willing to spend and time you're willing to devote to saving it. You don't think about your cat graduating high school, college, falling in love, raising a family. Whether your cat could grow up to be president, or cure cancer, or find life on another planet. Whether your cat will inspire millions of people with an art form or a physical skill. When you give EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to save your child, you don't do it just because you love the kid. You do it for ALL the reasons you hope a person has a long, healthy, fulfilling and fulfilled life. You put your heart and soul into a child hoping that their being and their presence in this world will make it a better place, whether it's just to one person or to billions.

All you have to think about with a cat is "this cat makes me happy when he purrs on my chest, and could continue to make me happy for the next x years if I spend this $x on this treatment. I could get a different cat, but he might not make me quite as happy, so I'll save this cat." NO. FUCKING. COMPARISON.

So if a person has zero chance of doing any of the bolded (let's say the person is in a wheel chair and cannot express themselves other than pointing to something on a mat thing in front of them ie. a picture of food when they are hungry), their lives don't matter as much as someone who is brilliant and might go on to do great things? And let's be honest, most people in the world are not extraordinary. They just go about their daily lives and die and when their friends and family die nothing from them will be remembered, just the facts. Sure, parents think their little SS is amazeballs, but they probably aren't.

Also, a cat can absolutely inspire people and do amazing things (not saying my cats would, just that they can). I mean look at how amazing Lil Bub is, she is such an inspiration and a happy little girl http://www.buzzfeed.com/samimain/lil-bub-continues-to-be-an-amazing-inspiration-to-everybody
And cats like Princess Monster Truck have become "spokespersons" for adoption, black cat equality, and adopting a pet even though they might be ugly to some people http://www.princessmonstertruck.com/about

The last bit you said about why I would save my cats, that I am doing it for me so I can get cuddles I am not even going to respond to.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said people who can't do those things don't matter. I said those are the motivations and hopes of people who have/nurture/care for/SAVE PEOPLE. You HOPE for them to have those things. If the treatment fails and they really can't do anything, people don't euthanize them because IT'S ILLEGAL. It's not for cats, because PEOPLE > PETS.

And are you FUCKING KIDDING ME with "black cat equality" and using BuzzFeed as a moral compass?! Get out of your fucking house and out into the world. You need a hell of a lot of perspective.

ashley8918 · November 2014

yogapants said:

Lord, give me patience.

Hi, Please don't ever leave us. I like you.

ashley8918 · November 2014

doeydo said:

DD. never mind.

Um?

JIC anyone was wondering, what was said here was that she did not compare people in wheelchairs to Lil Bub. Or whatever.

Aray82 · November 2014

Recent (two kinds of cancer at once right before I was about to graduate and lose my health coverage) survivor chiming in here. I would not side-eye for this type of thing. Without asking for a dime, I was overwhelmed by friends and family who just from hearing through the grapevine sent checks, gift cards for groceries, meals, and care packages. And this even with the fact that my prognosis was excellent and I remained in pretty decent health on chemo. This support made it possible for me not to teach over the summer while in the throes of fever, diarrhea, and other shit-kicking side effects every other week. I would donate to a medical fund for a hit and run in a heartbeat, with whatever I had the means to give.

However, what we also received from friends(and even friends of friends) in the insurance business and medical community was their time and advice in dealing with this bills, what types of options to look into post school insurance, and how to fight bills that were astronomical. I am on a secondary insurance plan for low income residents that has taken so much of the financial strain off me and DH. The only reason I knew it existed was because my office-mate emailed me about it and said it helped her with surgery bills. My concern with these crowd funds for medical bills is that there's a chance it draws energy and focus off the real issue: that health care in this country is laughably, ridiculously expensive to the point where even the better-off and budget-saavy with good insurance can be wrecked by it. What should be happening, along with financial support, is asking questions, looking into payment plans, and pushing back against a system that really is arbitrary as to how much it charges for certain things. I got bills that said basically "You owe us a katrillion bucks yesterday so pay up now, beeyatch!" And then when I called the billing department, they were like, "oh actually you don't owe nearly that much so it's all good." In addition to financial support, what this family could likely use now are folks who are in a better place of mind to decipher insurance jargon, ask questions when bills look ridiculous, and look into what kinds of programs are out there that are already in place for situations like this. It was an immense help to me and my situation was nowhere near even a fraction of what this family is going through, so I'd presume to say that they'd appreciate this kind of help with logistics and navigating a system that is confusing even for folks on their best days.

ETA: Hooray for paragraphs! I reeeeaaaally need to stop posting from my iPad mini and stick to my computer. But yeah, so to sum up: Team Not Side-Eye, but a frequent pinch hitter for Team Also Help Them Navigate the Logistics of the System in the Long Run.

ashley8918 · November 2014

doeydo said:

But whatever, I guess I disagree with y'all that asking for money on the internet is OK or not (to clarify again, no problem in my book if someone makes a crowd fund for someone else). We have also already been over how my views on animals differ from yours.
There's no point in going on in a circle. You have your opinions on these things and I have mine. I don't hold anything against any of you.

The real disagreement isn't about whether it is okay or not. It's about WHY you don't think it's okay. Because they should have been prepared for catastophe by either A. having unlimited cash (because, really, this is what it would take. Medical care is expensive as fuck) or B. Just fucking up and preemptively moving to a different country? Like it's the easiest god damned thing in the world. I bet that's why people from Mexico fucking DIE trying to sneak their families into the US. Because it is so easy.

As evidenced by the frequent fucks, this ignorant shit has got me all riled up.

kat1114 · November 2014

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

DD. never mind.

Um?

JIC anyone was wondering, what was said here was that she did not compare people in wheelchairs to Lil Bub. Or whatever.

Oh and don't forget how people who can't express themselves wouldn't make a difference in the world. Exact quote below just in case...
"Don't think I did. I was talking about how a hypothetical person who couldn't express themselves probably wouldn't make much of a difference in the world. I then went on to try to say that cats can make a difference in the world to some people, including Lil Bub"

penguin44 · November 2014

doeydo said:

lolo883 said:

yogapants said:

Lurker de-lurking to say that you sound both self-righteous and uninformed, doeydo, which is a terrible combination.

I've found that most of the time it's not even the person directly affected by the tragedy that makes the gofundme or whatever. It's often a friend, neighbor, etc. who sees the need and steps in. I cannot imagine side-eying this kind of crowd funding. Are you kidding me? Two of their children were grievously injured in a hit-and-run. One is losing his LEG. He's going to be disabled for the rest of his life. The other boy may need to be cared for by his parents for the rest of his life, depending on the severity of his head/brain injuries. There's no way to plan for that, and the suggestion that they should've planned better by emigrating is asinine. Emigration can take years and thousands of dollars, and it means leaving behind family, friends, potentially pets ("fur babies", fuck*) unless you're willing to put them in a 6-month quarantine, etc. And it may require sponsorship from a company or having an in-demand skill to even begin the process of applying for a work visa. You can't "just move" to another country.

So no, OP, I don't side-eye this kind of crowd funding. But my eyes are bugging out of my head at this thread.

*I've paid for surgery for a cat before. It was $1200. But if I had to pay a grand for surgery and they amputated the cat's leg, okay. After the surgery, I didn't have to worry about potential long-term care for the cat (either providing care for the cat well after when it should be able to function as an adult, or paying someone to come to the home, or paying to put the cat in a facility - this is about the possibly brain-damaged boy, obviously), applying for disability for the cat, getting an IEP for the cat so that it has accommodations in school, what kind of job the cat might be able to do when it grows up, on and on and on. There is no comparison here between paying for surgery for a pet and amputating the leg of a child or dealing with long-term brain damage. None.

You also don't have to consider the lifetime potential of a cat when considering the level of care and money you're willing to spend and time you're willing to devote to saving it. You don't think about your cat graduating high school, college, falling in love, raising a family. Whether your cat could grow up to be president, or cure cancer, or find life on another planet. Whether your cat will inspire millions of people with an art form or a physical skill. When you give EVERYTHING YOU HAVE to save your child, you don't do it just because you love the kid. You do it for ALL the reasons you hope a person has a long, healthy, fulfilling and fulfilled life. You put your heart and soul into a child hoping that their being and their presence in this world will make it a better place, whether it's just to one person or to billions.

All you have to think about with a cat is "this cat makes me happy when he purrs on my chest, and could continue to make me happy for the next x years if I spend this $x on this treatment. I could get a different cat, but he might not make me quite as happy, so I'll save this cat." NO. FUCKING. COMPARISON.

So if a person has zero chance of doing any of the bolded (let's say the person is in a wheel chair and cannot express themselves other than pointing to something on a mat thing in front of them ie. a picture of food when they are hungry), their lives don't matter as much as someone who is brilliant and might go on to do great things? And let's be honest, most people in the world are not extraordinary. They just go about their daily lives and die and when their friends and family die nothing from them will be remembered, just the facts. Sure, parents think their little SS is amazeballs, but they probably aren't.

Also, a cat can absolutely inspire people and do amazing things (not saying my cats would, just that they can). I mean look at how amazing Lil Bub is, she is such an inspiration and a happy little girl http://www.buzzfeed.com/samimain/lil-bub-continues-to-be-an-amazing-inspiration-to-everybody
And cats like Princess Monster Truck have become "spokespersons" for adoption, black cat equality, and adopting a pet even though they might be ugly to some people http://www.princessmonstertruck.com/about
And hero cats http://www.today.com/pets/good-kitty-these-6-hero-cats-saved-humans-they-loved-2D79677090

The last bit you said about why I would save my cats, that I am doing it for me so I can get cuddles I am not even going to respond to.

I can't even comment on most of this, but to the bolded

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking

Also, I think you have missed something important here. Cat surgery is typically much less expensive than human surgery. At least in countries other than Canada...

ashley8918 · November 2014

kat1114 said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

DD. never mind.

Um?

JIC anyone was wondering, what was said here was that she did not compare people in wheelchairs to Lil Bub. Or whatever.

Oh and don't forget how people who can't express themselves wouldn't make a difference in the world. Exact quote below just in case...

"Don't think I did. I was talking about how a hypothetical person who couldn't express themselves probably wouldn't make much of a difference in the world. I then went on to try to say that cats can make a difference in the world to some people, including Lil Bub"

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

holyguacamole79 · November 2014

I'm not sure ifyoure aware, @doeydo, but texas just elected a man in a wheelchair to be our governor.

theartistformerlyknownas · November 2014

holyguacamole79 said:

I'm not sure ifyoure aware, @doeydo, but texas just elected a man in a wheelchair to be our governor.

But what's his stance on black cat equality?

BrandNewJ · November 2014

ohmrs2014 said:

Thanks everyone. Myself and another person were going to set it up, but their oldest brother already did.

I am so incredibly sorry for your and your friend's family's loss. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Not touching anything else because I just can't, but I would not side eye anything to help this family. Support systems are necessary in times like this. Even if it's through CFing, let the community rally around the family.

holyguacamole79 · November 2014

lolo883 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I'm not sure ifyoure aware, @doeydo, but texas just elected a man in a wheelchair to be our governor.

But what's his stance on black cat equality?

H! I figured someome would snark on him. Like him or not, he did overcome a tragic accident and is going to govern a large state while in a wheelchair.

At What Point is Crowd Funding OK?

Re: At What Point is Crowd Funding OK?

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