What would you do?

AprilH81 · December 2014

We bought a new to us house in May. DH has been wanting to build a bar in the basement (which is already finished including a working sink) since we moved in. When I say build, I mean build with his own to hands not buy something and make it a bar.

His parents bought him a saw for Christmas and he is now on day 2 of construction and I went down to take a look and pointed out a few things that weren't even/level/screwed in tight but decided not to keep going so I didn't piss him off and ruin his fun.

DH has ZERO building experience and has not ever built anything from scratch with wood. This is his first project and I'm worried he is in over his head, not because of lack of ability but more because of is complete inability to pay attention to details (hence the stuff I listed above). He thinks that he can fix it with wood shims or that no one will see it once it is finished.

I don't want to fight with him over this bar but I don't want something in the basement that looks like a 5 year old did it (exaggeration here). I was taught by my parents that the devil is in the details and if you are going to take the time to do something you need to take the time to do it right. We are using money from our savings account for him to build this and when it is finished it is going to be several hundred dollars in materials, possibly more depending on what the final decision is on the countertop.

Do I just let it go and bite my tongue? Do I try to encourage him to take pride in the steps and not just the finished project?

beethery · December 2014

:grimacing: Maybe he should've started with a smaller project so he could get his bearings on building stuff.

Maggie0829 · December 2014

I would probably have a conversation with him about your concerns. I am like you and I don't want something done half-assed especially when a lot of money is being spent. As how you should have that conversation with him, I have no idea.

climbingsingle · December 2014

Yikes. Having it looked poorly constructed would drive me nuts. I would have to say something.

mikenberger · December 2014

AprilH81 said:

We bought a new to us house in May. DH has been wanting to build a bar in the basement (which is already finished including a working sink) since we moved in. When I say build, I mean build with his own to hands not buy something and make it a bar.

His parents bought him a saw for Christmas and he is now on day 2 of construction and I went down to take a look and pointed out a few things that weren't even/level/screwed in tight but decided not to keep going so I didn't piss him off and ruin his fun.

DH has ZERO building experience and has not ever built anything from scratch with wood. This is his first project and I'm worried he is in over his head, not because of lack of ability but more because of is complete inability to pay attention to details (hence the stuff I listed above). He thinks that he can fix it with wood shims or that no one will see it once it is finished.

I don't want to fight with him over this bar but I don't want something in the basement that looks like a 5 year old did it (exaggeration here). I was taught by my parents that the devil is in the details and if you are going to take the time to do something you need to take the time to do it right. We are using money from our savings account for him to build this and when it is finished it is going to be several hundred dollars in materials, possibly more depending on what the final decision is on the countertop.

Do I just let it go and bite my tongue? Do I try to encourage him to take pride in the steps and not just the finished project?

You know him better than I. My FI and I have a very honest, like rudely honest (from the outside looking in others have told me.), relationship and I would tell him exactly how I felt. I would find a way to tell him how much you appreciate his hard work but point out the money and the poor construction. Is there any kind of budget involved?

labro · December 2014

Ummm yikes! My FIL is a carpenter so H is practically anal about details and getting everything right. As the saying goes "Measure twice, cut once" or if you're us...measure 3 or 4 times. Is there any way you can get involved in the project so you can help build too? I have to say, I don't know the best way to bring up the conversation but I get how you feel. I'd rather have no bar than a poorly constructed one, especially since it sounds like you're investing some serious money in this (not including the addition of say a granite countertop).

AprilH81 · December 2014

At least I'm not crazy.

When I was down there talking to him about it I tried to point out the issues gently so I didn't piss him off. I finally just said that I was going to go back upstairs before I ruined the project for him and that DID piss him off.

He thinks that I think he can't do anything good enough and that isn't the case. He just gets so focused on the end result that he doesn't pay attention to the best way to get there. If he hangs a curtain rod and it isn't straight he calls it "good enough" and moves on. If the Christmas tree is leaning "oh well, it is real it won't be perfectly straight" and on and on.

DH is a wonderful caring, giving and loving person, but home improvement type projects are just not his thing. He is always willing to help, but it is to the point that I would rather do most things myself to make sure they get done right.

AprilH81 · December 2014

LaPeanut1018 said:

Ummm yikes! My FIL is a carpenter so H is practically anal about details and getting everything right. As the saying goes "Measure twice, cut once" or if you're us...measure 3 or 4 times. Is there any way you can get involved in the project so you can help build too? I have to say, I don't know the best way to bring up the conversation but I get how you feel. I'd rather have no bar than a poorly constructed one, especially since it sounds like you're investing some serious money in this (not including the addition of say a granite countertop).

He has spent about $200 so far in materials. He still needs to buy the paneling, trim, paint and counter tops (NOT granite for sure but he hasn't decided) so we could be looking at another $200 easy. What is so frustrating to me is that we had a contractor remodel our kitchen this summer and we helped with the demo and some of the smaller projects. The contractor guided us through the work and explained why we needed to do the grunt work to prep for the pretty stuff. I had hoped that had sunk in on the bar.

It hasn't.

ashley8918 · December 2014

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

AprilH81 · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

labro · December 2014

@AprilH81 I can say that using some sort of filler like caulking and then coloring it in with paint or wood marker will help to hide unevenness or gaps in the wood once everything is assembled.

Sorry I don't have a ton of advice on how to approach the situation. Hopefully just the experience in trying to be handy around the house will teach him over time how to do things right.

luckya23 · December 2014

I keep staying up late enough to see this infomercial and I really want them!

Maybe you can make the suggestion??

https://www.kregtool.com/

ashley8918 · December 2014

AprilH81 said:

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

So do I?

levieenrose · December 2014

I sympathise with you, April!

It sounds like you've gone about addressing it in a thoughtful way by letting him know what you see and also making it clear that you're backing off when he gets frustrated.

Is it just the labor cost that he's trying to avoid? Or does this have deeper issues like trying to prove he can provide for his family, or is it a new challenge that he wants to conquer? Or is it a timing issue, and he needs to have this done by x date?

I would suggest finding out what the core drives are for this project and then bringing up the topic again. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and precision is important. I'd talk those up to be selling points for you to be more involved in the project (or spending more time with him doing something productive) while also addressing any other driving issues which might not be pertinent to this particular project.

Good luck!

WinstonsGirl · December 2014

Can you work on it together?? I've done some DIY and I'v honestly had no idea how detailed it could be until I started. I was lucky in that I had someone helping who did know and made me go slow. But I also wanted it to be right too.

Otherwise, I'd sit him down when he's not in the middle of it and have an honest conversation. Kinda like when you need to talk about bad sex and you need to do it away from the time it's actually happening.

jenna8984 · December 2014

That is frustrating. My husband and I are kind of opposites when it comes to that stuff. When he was re-doing our kitchen and bath I was the one yelling "just frigen slap it up and get it done" and he was one saying "do it right or not at all". He ended up compromising a little bit on his work to get it done quicker and he still bitches that he wishes he hadn't.

But we are really honest with each other so I probably would say something in a joking way about it not being level. And at the end of the day, yea $400 sucks to waste but it could be worse, I probably wouldn't make a fuss about it unless it were more expensive. I bought trees to make a natural fence with the neighbor's yard and the stupid son of a bitches claimed they would grow 4 feet per year. It's been 3 years and they are 3 feet tall. But I look at it as, it was worth the shot for $150 lol

novella1186 · December 2014

Part of me wants to say it's just a bar, it's just in your basement, and he's having fun so leave it alone. But I would never take my own advice. Stuff like that bugs me, and I would just stare at it all the time and obsess over the flaws. If it's not going to really upset him, I'd say talk to him about it.

photokitty · December 2014

April, have you tried the ReStore or the buy sell trade pages on Facebook? DH is pretty handy and my OCD still goes wonky when I look at the backsplash the installed in the kitchen. If you are anything like me, and I think you might be, you aren't going to be happy with something half decent just bc he is warm and fuzzy with pride over building it. JMHO

KatieinBkln · December 2014

I say for project number one, which is in the basement, you leave it be re: aesthetics. You can step in and put a stop to any runaway budget issues, but it doesn't sound like that's the heart of it.

When he is finished, if it is not great, you don't have to fake-praise it. I would stick with non-aesthetic compliments like, "I am so happy that you got to do this project you've always wanted to do."

Then? You start getting him gift certificates to woodworking courses. You can't tell him that shit has to be level and details matter. He won't hear you anyway. But an instructor, surrounded by a bunch of like-minded dudes? He'll listen. Trust.

Then, if he isn't put off the entire thing, when he wants to do something that is actually visible to everyone who comes into your house, you'll at least be able to have some sense of whether he's come far enough to allow it.

Personally, if I were to (for some unfathomable reason) offer to do some sort of art-y, DIY project and it looked like shit, I would PRAY that my FI would (kindly) tell me that I have other strengths, and art ain't one of 'em. OR, I would hope he'd (kindly) offer to help, and in demonstrating how things ought to be done, subtly teach me just how half-assed I had been approaching it. (So...go get your hammer and level? Your mileage may vary with that one).

lyndausvi · December 2014

I would first see what his final product is before I do anything. DH and I are for the most part honest with each other, however there are times where I hold back a bit to save his feelings. He does the same for me.

I made some meatballs for DH once and the entire time I was making him he was telling me what I was doing wrong, what I should fix, etc. I was fucking PISSED. I'm like "let me fucking finish before you decide I suck at this."

I actually stopped cooking for him for a while because I just could not take the criticism from him. He has backed way off since then (this was 6-7 years ago),

BTW - he nows requests my meatballs, so yeah, I might get to the final product a little differently, but I do get there and they taste damn good.

abbyj700 · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

AprilH81 said:

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

So do I?

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

Your spouse - he obviously takes pride in your home. He's down there doing this BECAUSE he does. Why else would he want to do it? Just because his effort doesn't meet your standard does not mean he doesn't take pride.

DH hung our holiday lights this year. I think they look rather clumsily put up. But I smiled and thanked him for his efforts. We both work a lot, don't have a lot of time and he hates Christmas. Yet he cared enough to go out and buy decorations (that I find kinda awful) and hang them - all to show he cares about making me happy and takes pride in our home.

If you must talk to him - please don't use statements like you don't think he take pride in your home the way that you do. Tell him your concerns and volunteer to help out so that you two can do it together and both end up happy.

blabla89 · December 2014

Yikes! Is there any chance you could enlist a friend or family member who has legit building expertise to help him out?

steph861 · December 2014

abbyj700 said:

ashley8918 said:

AprilH81 said:

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

So do I?

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

Your spouse - he obviously takes pride in your home. He's down there doing this BECAUSE he does. Why else would he want to do it? Just because his effort doesn't meet your standard does not mean he doesn't take pride.

DH hung our holiday lights this year. I think they look rather clumsily put up. But I smiled and thanked him for his efforts. We both work a lot, don't have a lot of time and he hates Christmas. Yet he cared enough to go out and buy decorations (that I find kinda awful) and hang them - all to show he cares about making me happy and takes pride in our home.

If you must talk to him - please don't use statements like you don't think he take pride in your home the way that you do. Tell him your concerns and volunteer to help out so that you two can do it together and both end up happy.

I think this might be your best bet, in terms of avoiding conflict and getting a bar that you can live with. Do you have any building experience?

doeydo · December 2014

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

porkchops926 · December 2014

I feel your pain because I always want things to be perfect and "just so" when it comes to the house. But this is something he wants to do, for whatever reason, and even though it's a big project it could be a learning experience and a means of making him more competent at DIY projects and home reno.

I would actually find articles on building a bar, or woodworking mags, anything that will give helpful hints and share it with him. Offer to help and tell him it's because you don't want to put your savings into something that will detract from the value or attractiveness of the house. He should be understanding about this seeing as it's an investment that belongs to both of you.

If not, worst case scenario it's in the basement. If this were in the living room it would be a code red.

AprilH81 · December 2014

levieenrose said:

I sympathise with you, April!

It sounds like you've gone about addressing it in a thoughtful way by letting him know what you see and also making it clear that you're backing off when he gets frustrated.

Is it just the labor cost that he's trying to avoid? Or does this have deeper issues like trying to prove he can provide for his family, or is it a new challenge that he wants to conquer? Or is it a timing issue, and he needs to have this done by x date?

I would suggest finding out what the core drives are for this project and then bringing up the topic again. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and precision is important. I'd talk those up to be selling points for you to be more involved in the project (or spending more time with him doing something productive) while also addressing any other driving issues which might not be pertinent to this particular project.

Good luck!

He wants to be able to say "I built this myself" which is why we are in this situation. I tried to talk him into buying something pre-made or at least using pre-fab kitchen cabinets as a base and he wasn't interested.

It doesn't need to be perfect but it frustrates me that he doesn't seem to care that the details that he is ignoring now will affect the end result.

AprilH81 · December 2014

steph861 said:

abbyj700 said:

ashley8918 said:

AprilH81 said:

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

So do I?

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

Your spouse - he obviously takes pride in your home. He's down there doing this BECAUSE he does. Why else would he want to do it? Just because his effort doesn't meet your standard does not mean he doesn't take pride.

DH hung our holiday lights this year. I think they look rather clumsily put up. But I smiled and thanked him for his efforts. We both work a lot, don't have a lot of time and he hates Christmas. Yet he cared enough to go out and buy decorations (that I find kinda awful) and hang them - all to show he cares about making me happy and takes pride in our home.

If you must talk to him - please don't use statements like you don't think he take pride in your home the way that you do. Tell him your concerns and volunteer to help out so that you two can do it together and both end up happy.

I think this might be your best bet, in terms of avoiding conflict and getting a bar that you can live with. Do you have any building experience?

I would offer to help, but my personality is such that I would completely take over and I want him to have this project for himself. I just want it done as close to "right" as possible.

ashley8918 · December 2014

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

beethery · December 2014

AprilH81 said:

levieenrose said:

I sympathise with you, April!

It sounds like you've gone about addressing it in a thoughtful way by letting him know what you see and also making it clear that you're backing off when he gets frustrated.

Is it just the labor cost that he's trying to avoid? Or does this have deeper issues like trying to prove he can provide for his family, or is it a new challenge that he wants to conquer? Or is it a timing issue, and he needs to have this done by x date?

I would suggest finding out what the core drives are for this project and then bringing up the topic again. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and precision is important. I'd talk those up to be selling points for you to be more involved in the project (or spending more time with him doing something productive) while also addressing any other driving issues which might not be pertinent to this particular project.

Good luck!

He wants to be able to say "I built this myself" which is why we are in this situation. I tried to talk him into buying something pre-made or at least using pre-fab kitchen cabinets as a base and he wasn't interested.

It doesn't need to be perfect but it frustrates me that he doesn't seem to care that the details that he is ignoring now will affect the end result.

He definitely should've started smaller with building things. It takes practice.

My FI is great at fixing things. He also knows where his skills end, and when to ask for help. He's not super familiar with building things. He can figure some things out, but he's super cautious about fucking something up if it's going to be a big deal or an expensive material.

He's been starting small so he can get better at it. Nobody in his life, growing up, was really a hands-on person with anything beside their lawns. He and my dad built a hutch for our generator. He then took the more rudimentary stuff that he got from working with my dad, and built a mini pole barn thing for our firewood.

We'd love to not have to ask my dad to help us, but we know that in order to make sure it's right with the skills we've got between us, we need the help and we need to keep things simple. My dad loves that FI wants to learn how to do this stuff (and comes to him for knowledge) and has offered him the use of his shop in the basement if he needs it, and we really appreciate how much my dad has been teaching FI and helping with the construction of things.

Your H going all out and building a bar when he's not super familiar with building more detailed things sounds like he's probably bitten off more than he can chew for his skill set. I hope it comes out good enough for your perfectionist-sounding standards (seriously the "I take pride in my home" thing was a bit much over some non-functioning christmas lights. Chill. Repeatedly.), and I hope in the future he goes for smaller-scale things while he works his building skills.

VulgarGirl · December 2014

I'm not always great with details. And honestly there are things I'm shit at doing but do because I enjoy doing them. No matter what the end product looks like. My enjoyment in doing them is more important.

There's a difference in functionality vs aesthetics. If the bar isn't level drink could fall off and that is sad. If the bar doesn't look like a professional built it that's ok because an armature built it and hopefully he enjoyed building it. And his enjoyment is more important then how the end product looks.

I'd suggest talking to him about how it's important to make sure the bar is functional, maybe get him some how to books or encourage him to take a basic carpentry class.

And take pride in the fact your husband wants to do something that makes him feel happy/accomplished/proud.

doeydo · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

If he wants something to point at when drinking a beer with his buddies to show off, it can be something like a bird feeder, like I said, not something that is going to be built into my home and used when hosting guests. Of course I grew up with my mom and my bio dad, and he was a cheap POS that wanted to do every single thing himself (fix the car, fix shit around the house, etc.) and he had no bloody idea what he was doing and would sometimes make the thing worse.

Anyways, if so much money is being spent on this bar thing, I think it should be a mutual decision/compromise of some kind at least, just like how after a certain amount of money a couple usually talks about it before spending it on something.

What would you do?

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