What would you do?

AprilH81 · December 2014

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding about the "I take pride in my house" comment. I didn't mean to imply that someone who doesn't fix strands of lights doesn't take pride in their home. I didn't phrase that well.

At the risk of digging myself into a deeper hole I meant that since I take pride in my home I do my best to maintain the home and make repairs, do maintenance and not let it look run down. I'm a bit concerned that if this project doesn't turn out the way it should it will look like we don't give a shit because it isn't plum, level and goodness knows what else.

I do wish he had tried to do a smaller, more basic project first. I would compare this to someone who just got a sewing machine to start a quilt, or a first time cook trying to create a 5 star gourmet meal. He isn't clueless or incapable, he just has no experience and a lot of excitement for the project. He did plan it out on graph paper, marked it off on the floor and did a lot of things "right" in the planning but so far the execution isn't going so well.

My dad is very handy and I've worked on projects with him, but I'm not experienced to know how to make things better, but if I was doing the project I would continue to re-do some things until it was fixed and this is where he is not paying attention to the details. Asking my dad isn't really an option, he lives 2.5 hours away and has had a stroke so he can't really help us out.

If two boards aren't lined up right he thinks that it will be hidden when he puts the panel on the front. It might be hidden, but it could complicate the installation of shelves or the panel may not attach to the support post correctly because the alignment is off.

I don't need it to look like we bought it from a store, or even like a professional built it but I don't want it to look like shit either.

I think my dilemma largely comes from how he hates criticism. No matter how gently I approach the topic he gets defensive when I ask him questions or point out a mistake and accuses me of never approving of his work (which is not the case). So I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. If I say something I piss him off. If I keep my mouth shut there is a high liklihood that I will end up pissed off about the end result.

ashley8918 · December 2014

doeydo said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

If he wants something to point at when drinking a beer with his buddies to show off, it can be something like a bird feeder, like I said, not something that is going to be built into my home and used when hosting guests. Of course I grew up with my mom and my bio dad, and he was a cheap POS that wanted to do every single thing himself (fix the car, fix shit around the house, etc.) and he had no bloody idea what he was doing and would sometimes make the thing worse.
Anyways, if so much money is being spent on this bar thing, I think it should be a mutual decision/compromise of some kind at least, just like how after a certain amount of money a couple usually talks about it before spending it on something.

Yeah, no. Still snotty. You're obviously not understanding what i'm saying.

Clearly, I don't agree with the notion that this is worth upsetting him over, but everyone is different. That's fine. And I totally get the whole "I wish he had started off smaller" thing. What I don't get, is the idea that you would be cool with being a snotty bitch to your husband who was trying to make something nice. "I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly." - seriously? How incredibly patronizing. Like I said, I could never imagine having this attitude towards my husband.

Regarding the money thing, everyone has a different amount that they consider "so much money". Furthermore, I was under the impression that the OP knew about this little project before it begun. It doesn't sound like she just came home to him building a bar one day. Instead, it sounds like OP and H agreed, but now she has changed her mind because she doesn't like how it is turning out. In my opinion, tough tits, sugar. Let him have his bar project. But, if OP feels comfortable talking to him about it and potentially upsetting him, that her prerogative. I don't gather that she has any intention of being snotty and hurtful about it, though.

Wegl13 · December 2014

Why don't you discuss your financial concerns (taking money out of savings to build something "unnecessary"- by which I mean, it's not holding the house together), and see if you guys can't take a hiatus until this isn't as big of a burden? That might lessen your worries on thar score a bit.
After that I would maybe let it go. It sounds like you are seeing something of your biological father in him, and that is stressing you out/ hurting your feelings because in this way, he's showing himself to be more like your bio father than your dad in terms of worksmanship. And I get where that can be a "thing"... But he's not either of these people and comparing them even in your head is going to make it worse.
At the end of the day this sounds like a huge project that many of us would be so proud to see our husbands trying for. As long as it's done well enough to not be a safety hazard (ie it's not going to fall over when young kids touch it), I'd try and find everything you can that is right with it. If, outside of the moment, you want to try complimenting him on how hard he is working, and then saying "I noticed [most egregarious error]. What is your plan for fixing that?" A LOT of how you say that last sentence is going to be tone. If you go into that conversation comparing him to your bio or actual dad, it's not going togowell. If you go into itwith the idea that he is a capable and hardworking man, it will come off as it should- that he HAS a plan, and you just want to know what it is.

larrygaga · December 2014

I think this is a hill to die on. I think your FIs feeling and pride about this are more important than how your basement looks

Pretend I put a Let it go gif here

abbyj700 · December 2014

AprilH81 said:

steph861 said:

abbyj700 said:

ashley8918 said:

AprilH81 said:

ashley8918 said:

Meh, I probably wouldn't spend a single minute thinking about it. But, I personally don't care about this kind of stuff AT ALL, so I'm not much help.

Example of my not give a fuck-ness: Only the bottom half of my Christmas tree had lights on it this year, because I couldn't be bothered to find the bulb that was out. My mom was APPALLED when she came over and saw it, and insisted that I have H fix it right away. Because, for god's sake it was in the window. PEOPLE COULD SEE IT. Um, no? I don't care even one tiny little bit.

Yeah, I care about stuff like only one strand of working lights on a Christmas tree. Not so much because "OMG what will the neighbors think" but I take pride in our home and believe if you are going to take the time to do something you should do it RIGHT, not just good enough.

So do I?

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

Your spouse - he obviously takes pride in your home. He's down there doing this BECAUSE he does. Why else would he want to do it? Just because his effort doesn't meet your standard does not mean he doesn't take pride.

DH hung our holiday lights this year. I think they look rather clumsily put up. But I smiled and thanked him for his efforts. We both work a lot, don't have a lot of time and he hates Christmas. Yet he cared enough to go out and buy decorations (that I find kinda awful) and hang them - all to show he cares about making me happy and takes pride in our home.

If you must talk to him - please don't use statements like you don't think he take pride in your home the way that you do. Tell him your concerns and volunteer to help out so that you two can do it together and both end up happy.

I think this might be your best bet, in terms of avoiding conflict and getting a bar that you can live with. Do you have any building experience?

I would offer to help, but my personality is such that I would completely take over and I want him to have this project for himself. I just want it done as close to "right" as possible.

Sounds like a great growth opportunity for you both! Helping him doesn't mean telling him he's doing everything wrong or taking over. You seem aware that that's usually what you'd do but not what needs to be done - so maybe take a conscious approach NOT to take over but act as sidekick all the while helping to hold things straight and resand things - ya know, just to be helpful!

KatieinBkln · December 2014

AprilH81 said:

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding about the "I take pride in my house" comment. I didn't mean to imply that someone who doesn't fix strands of lights doesn't take pride in their home. I didn't phrase that well.

At the risk of digging myself into a deeper hole I meant that since I take pride in my home I do my best to maintain the home and make repairs, do maintenance and not let it look run down. I'm a bit concerned that if this project doesn't turn out the way it should it will look like we don't give a shit because it isn't plum, level and goodness knows what else.

I do wish he had tried to do a smaller, more basic project first. I would compare this to someone who just got a sewing machine to start a quilt, or a first time cook trying to create a 5 star gourmet meal. He isn't clueless or incapable, he just has no experience and a lot of excitement for the project. He did plan it out on graph paper, marked it off on the floor and did a lot of things "right" in the planning but so far the execution isn't going so well.

My dad is very handy and I've worked on projects with him, but I'm not experienced to know how to make things better, but if I was doing the project I would continue to re-do some things until it was fixed and this is where he is not paying attention to the details. Asking my dad isn't really an option, he lives 2.5 hours away and has had a stroke so he can't really help us out.

If two boards aren't lined up right he thinks that it will be hidden when he puts the panel on the front. It might be hidden, but it could complicate the installation of shelves or the panel may not attach to the support post correctly because the alignment is off.

I don't need it to look like we bought it from a store, or even like a professional built it but I don't want it to look like shit either.

I think my dilemma largely comes from how he hates criticism. No matter how gently I approach the topic he gets defensive when I ask him questions or point out a mistake and accuses me of never approving of his work (which is not the case). So I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. If I say something I piss him off. If I keep my mouth shut there is a high liklihood that I will end up pissed off about the end result.

Dingdingdingdingding, we have landed upon the deeper problem.

For me, feeling like I couldn't express even the mildest criticism (in private, of course) would be a big problem for which I would insist we seek guidance. I don't know why your H feels insecure about his work (how can you "never approve" if he doesn't feel that way?) but it seems like that insecurity has officially started affecting your everyday interactions. If you feel like you have to tiptoe around stuff (and not necessarily THIS stuff--I agree with others that the bar isn't a big deal, but it seems clear to me that half of the reason it's a big deal to YOU is because it's highlighting the fact that you don't feel like you can stand on equal footing with your H and be honest with him) that is a big problem. I don't think everything requires therapy, but it might be worth reading up on how to have difficult conversations--in my opinion, you need to be able to sit down and address this with him. Something like "I love you, and I so rarely have any criticisms of what you do. But when I do, I feel like I can't say even the smallest thing without it turning into a huge upset. I want to assure you that I do approve of your work, and it honestly hurts my feelings that you seem to ascribe negative intentions to me when I make any small suggestion. Criticizing something you DO is not the same as criticizing YOU, can you understand what I'm saying?"

I don't know. For me, ignoring the issue wouldn't be an option because it can't be any fun for either of you to feel this way (you, like you can't say anything. Him, like he can't do anything right and you're secretly waiting to pounce).

ashley8918 · December 2014

larrygaga said:

I think this is a hill to die on. I think your FIs feeling and pride about this are more important than how your basement looks Pretend I put a Let it go gif here

QFT.

Also, here, have this.

doeydo · December 2014

I don't see how OP should hold back her true feelings and thoughts just so her DH can be all "I'm a manly man, look at what I built" and so he can be proud, avoiding potentially upsetting him. IMO, she should be able to express concerns or constructive criticisms without having to walk on eggshells. Down the road, will she not be able to comment on anything he does unless it is praise?

Also, I'm going to be honest, little things like in an old house how you look at the frame of a door and compare it to ceiling and it isn't level? It bugs the shit out of me, and it isn't even my house. I cannot imagine what something in my home, of which I spent a fair amount of money on, being unlevel and, IMO, shoddily made (this is based on what OP said there are already issues with and with him not caring if it is the correct way or not).

doeydo · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

If he wants something to point at when drinking a beer with his buddies to show off, it can be something like a bird feeder, like I said, not something that is going to be built into my home and used when hosting guests. Of course I grew up with my mom and my bio dad, and he was a cheap POS that wanted to do every single thing himself (fix the car, fix shit around the house, etc.) and he had no bloody idea what he was doing and would sometimes make the thing worse.
Anyways, if so much money is being spent on this bar thing, I think it should be a mutual decision/compromise of some kind at least, just like how after a certain amount of money a couple usually talks about it before spending it on something.

Yeah, no. Still snotty. You're obviously not understanding what i'm saying.

Clearly, I don't agree with the notion that this is worth upsetting him over, but everyone is different. That's fine. And I totally get the whole "I wish he had started off smaller" thing. What I don't get, is the idea that you would be cool with being a snotty bitch to your husband who was trying to make something nice. "I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly." - seriously? How incredibly patronizing. Like I said, I could never imagine having this attitude towards my husband.

Regarding the money thing, everyone has a different amount that they consider "so much money". Furthermore, I was under the impression that the OP knew about this little project before it begun. It doesn't sound like she just came home to him building a bar one day. Instead, it sounds like OP and H agreed, but now she has changed her mind because she doesn't like how it is turning out. In my opinion, tough tits, sugar. Let him have his bar project. But, if OP feels comfortable talking to him about it and potentially upsetting him, that her prerogative. I don't gather that she has any intention of being snotty and hurtful about it, though.

I wouldn't word it to him like that, obviously. But TBH I wouldn't have agreed to him building something so substantial in our home in the first place. But if I did, I have every right to change my mind and we can revisit the conversation on money and construction and stuffs. I guess I am not infatuated enough with someone that everything they do is gold to me?

flantastic · December 2014

Why did his parents buy him a saw?

AprilH81 · December 2014

flantastic said:

Why did his parents buy him a saw?

Because he asked for one. We were going to borrow my Dad's saw to make sure DH could handle the basics before we bought a $200 saw on top of the materials.

AprilH81 · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

If he wants something to point at when drinking a beer with his buddies to show off, it can be something like a bird feeder, like I said, not something that is going to be built into my home and used when hosting guests. Of course I grew up with my mom and my bio dad, and he was a cheap POS that wanted to do every single thing himself (fix the car, fix shit around the house, etc.) and he had no bloody idea what he was doing and would sometimes make the thing worse.
Anyways, if so much money is being spent on this bar thing, I think it should be a mutual decision/compromise of some kind at least, just like how after a certain amount of money a couple usually talks about it before spending it on something.

Yeah, no. Still snotty. You're obviously not understanding what i'm saying.

Clearly, I don't agree with the notion that this is worth upsetting him over, but everyone is different. That's fine. And I totally get the whole "I wish he had started off smaller" thing. What I don't get, is the idea that you would be cool with being a snotty bitch to your husband who was trying to make something nice. "I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly." - seriously? How incredibly patronizing. Like I said, I could never imagine having this attitude towards my husband.

Regarding the money thing, everyone has a different amount that they consider "so much money". Furthermore, I was under the impression that the OP knew about this little project before it begun. It doesn't sound like she just came home to him building a bar one day. Instead, it sounds like OP and H agreed, but now she has changed her mind because she doesn't like how it is turning out. In my opinion, tough tits, sugar. Let him have his bar project. But, if OP feels comfortable talking to him about it and potentially upsetting him, that her prerogative. I don't gather that she has any intention of being snotty and hurtful about it, though.

I was aware of the project and mostly supported it, but I was concerned that he would be in over his head due to lack of experience but he had planned things out so well and measured and thought hard about the design. He has been thinking about this since we moved in in May. I asked him to be careful and to make sure that if he was going to do it to please take the time to do it right.

I haven't even changed my mind, I want him to have the bar and be able to show it off to his friends and say "I built that myself." I just want him to do his best to do it right and make sure it is level and things are screwed in properly. I wouldn't even mind a slightly higher materials cost if that meant he got more wood to make the proper cuts where he made a mistake.

I don't want to hurt his feelings or damage his pride. I don't want to fight over this with him, but I honestly think that he will be happy with the finished project if he doesn't try to fix some of these issues.

But, I'm going to keep my mouth shut until I see something that is just too bad to ignore. I don't want to ruin his fun and I rarely go down in the basement so maybe I will just forget it is down there.

ashley8918 · December 2014

doeydo said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

ashley8918 said:

doeydo said:

Ugh. I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly. Does he really want you two to have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a bar that will come out shoddily done?

Jeez. I couldn't imagine being this snotty about something that my husband built.

And good god, it not being 100% perfect hardly qualifies as "shoddily done".

If he wants something to point at when drinking a beer with his buddies to show off, it can be something like a bird feeder, like I said, not something that is going to be built into my home and used when hosting guests. Of course I grew up with my mom and my bio dad, and he was a cheap POS that wanted to do every single thing himself (fix the car, fix shit around the house, etc.) and he had no bloody idea what he was doing and would sometimes make the thing worse.
Anyways, if so much money is being spent on this bar thing, I think it should be a mutual decision/compromise of some kind at least, just like how after a certain amount of money a couple usually talks about it before spending it on something.

Yeah, no. Still snotty. You're obviously not understanding what i'm saying.

Clearly, I don't agree with the notion that this is worth upsetting him over, but everyone is different. That's fine. And I totally get the whole "I wish he had started off smaller" thing. What I don't get, is the idea that you would be cool with being a snotty bitch to your husband who was trying to make something nice. "I'd have him build a birdhouse and have someone who actually knows what they are doing build a bar properly." - seriously? How incredibly patronizing. Like I said, I could never imagine having this attitude towards my husband.

Regarding the money thing, everyone has a different amount that they consider "so much money". Furthermore, I was under the impression that the OP knew about this little project before it begun. It doesn't sound like she just came home to him building a bar one day. Instead, it sounds like OP and H agreed, but now she has changed her mind because she doesn't like how it is turning out. In my opinion, tough tits, sugar. Let him have his bar project. But, if OP feels comfortable talking to him about it and potentially upsetting him, that her prerogative. I don't gather that she has any intention of being snotty and hurtful about it, though.

I wouldn't word it to him like that, obviously. But TBH I wouldn't have agreed to him building something so substantial in our home in the first place. But if I did, I have every right to change my mind and we can revisit the conversation on money and construction and stuffs. I guess I am not infatuated enough with someone that everything they do is gold to me?

Nope, didn't say this either. What I said was, "Damn, girl. That is a really snotty attitude to have towards your H (SO) and something that he was making/was proud of. NOPE."

Knottie02135423 · December 2014

I would do 2 things:

1- Explain to him what you have just explained us. It is VERY reasonable that you want to have things WELL done. He's doing it but it's YOUR house + YOUR money. You have to make him understand this.

2- Is there any neighbor that has some experience in building or do you have a handyman friend? I'd ask him to spend some time with you DH to teach him some concepts (among them, the importance of the details).

FiancB · December 2014

Meh I'm with ashley in the I wouldn't really care camp. I think I'd either bite my tongue and leave him be or I'd try to join in as a couple project. That way anything you go along and fix seems a lot less critical and a lot more caring.

I tend to not be a very detail oriented person either. This can drive H nuts. I wouldn't be very happy either if he peeked at my harebrained projects just long enough to point out their flaws either (I realize this isn't what you're trying to do, but could very easily be perceived that way).

This is why I'd advocate for trying to join in as this is how things tend to work well for us. I come up with good ideas and the gumption to go ahead and do stuff; he makes sure I don't burn the house down in the process. Somewhere along the way we have fun too.

lyndausvi · December 2014

I love you April, but you even admitted you are controlling. You pretty much come across as a perfectionist. You claim that your DH does not take criticism well, but I have to wonder if it's because you are so controlling and a perfectionist.

I've lived with a controlling perfectionist before, it can be very draining on us non-perfectionist. It might not be your intention, but sometimes people like you do not realize how often you do criticize.

This is your house and something things are hills worth dying on. A bar in a basement doesn't seem like worth hurting your DH's feelings. But it's your choice. If you had said he was going to make your kitchen cabinets, then that is a different story. Even the best builders make mistakes and have to re-do stuff. It's how they learn. I guess I don't understand why you can't just let him figure this out without micro-managing? I'm NOT saying this because you need to let your man be a man. I would say the same if it was your wife.

Anyway, I would just ask you to take a step back and ask why he might not take criticism well from you? To this day I cringe when my mom criticizes me. It totally fucking sets me off because I had 19-20 years of being told every day what I'm doing wrong. She never said "you suck". It was more subtle than that. It would be "the towels are not suppose to be folded that way" or "why are the labels not facing out?" "the dishwasher was not loaded properly". Everything she said had a similar excuse of "I take pride in my home". Which obviously meant I didn't have pride. It's draining and un-motivating to be told that their way is the only way.

I can take criticism from others with little or no issue.

ashley8918 · December 2014

lyndausvi said:

I love you April, but you even admitted you are controlling. You pretty much come across as a perfectionist. You claim that your DH does not take criticism well, but I have to wonder if it's because you are so controlling and a perfectionist.

I've lived with a controlling perfectionist before, it can be very draining on us non-perfectionist. It might not be your intention, but sometimes people like you do not realize how often you do criticize.

This is your house and something things are hills worth dying on. A bar in a basement doesn't seem like worth hurting your DH's feelings. But it's your choice. If you had said he was going to make your kitchen cabinets, then that is a different story. Even the best builders make mistakes and have to re-do stuff. It's how they learn. I guess I don't understand why you can't just let him figure this out without micro-managing? I'm NOT saying this because you need to let your man be a man. I would say the same if it was your wife.

Anyway, I would just ask you to take a step back and ask why he might not take criticism well from you? To this day I cringe when my mom criticizes me. It totally fucking sets me off because I had 19-20 years of being told every day what I'm doing wrong. She never said "you suck". It was more subtle than that. It would be "the towels are not suppose to be folded that way" or "why are the labels not facing out?" "the dishwasher was not loaded properly". Everything she said had a similar excuse of "I take pride in my home". Which obviously meant I didn't have pride. It's draining and un-motivating to be told that their way is the only way.

I can take criticism from others with little or no issue.

Huh. Lynda, I think you are my long lost sister. We clearly have the same mother (well, foster mother, in my case).

lyndausvi · December 2014

ashley8918 said:

lyndausvi said:

I love you April, but you even admitted you are controlling. You pretty much come across as a perfectionist. You claim that your DH does not take criticism well, but I have to wonder if it's because you are so controlling and a perfectionist.

I've lived with a controlling perfectionist before, it can be very draining on us non-perfectionist. It might not be your intention, but sometimes people like you do not realize how often you do criticize.

This is your house and something things are hills worth dying on. A bar in a basement doesn't seem like worth hurting your DH's feelings. But it's your choice. If you had said he was going to make your kitchen cabinets, then that is a different story. Even the best builders make mistakes and have to re-do stuff. It's how they learn. I guess I don't understand why you can't just let him figure this out without micro-managing? I'm NOT saying this because you need to let your man be a man. I would say the same if it was your wife.

Anyway, I would just ask you to take a step back and ask why he might not take criticism well from you? To this day I cringe when my mom criticizes me. It totally fucking sets me off because I had 19-20 years of being told every day what I'm doing wrong. She never said "you suck". It was more subtle than that. It would be "the towels are not suppose to be folded that way" or "why are the labels not facing out?" "the dishwasher was not loaded properly". Everything she said had a similar excuse of "I take pride in my home". Which obviously meant I didn't have pride. It's draining and un-motivating to be told that their way is the only way.

I can take criticism from others with little or no issue.

Huh. Lynda, I think you are my long lost sister. We clearly have the same mother (well, foster mother, in my case).

It can be so exhausting and often the controlling person has no idea they are being that way because it can be so subtle. How can you argue with taking pride in your home? How is that bad?

Well, it's not, except when the controlling person's way is the only way.

jenajjthr · December 2014

My hubby just had to redo our stand up shower. I have a similar issue in that things should be done right the first time. I also have a hard time with DIY home repairs. I realize it is my own personal issue. Hubby swore up and down he can do the plumbing, carpentry (I have never had a man - dad or ex-H who could do things like this) sheetrock, and install new shower surround, this was a project he could handle. I was on pins and needles the whole time. But I had to "Let it Go" and stay out of the bathroom. Am I 100% pleased with the results? No, but he did a really really good job. Nothing leaks and that is the important part. We have a little bit of painting and some molding to put up for aesthitics and it is done.

Let him continue on this path, learn from whatever mistakes he makes. He will learn soon enough that a misplaced joint really does matter. He won't need you to teach him those, kwim? If he would like them, some basic carpentry classes to improve his skill. Then step back and let him work and learn.

What would you do?

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