Interesting Read Regarding Marriage, Religion, and Government

Re: Interesting Read Regarding Marriage, Religion, and Government

• wrigleyville member

  

  January 2015

  Oh look. It's proof I made the right decision when I left the Church and stopped buying into its mythology.

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• drunkenwitch member

  

  January 2015

  Oh spare me the "traditional marriage" crap unless clergy start demanding the groom pay the bride's father 40 goats and stoning the bride if she isn't a virgin.

  

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• jdluvr06 member

  

  January 2015

  Its hard for me to think of marriage as a religious institution. I think of it as a legal contract.

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• CMGragain member

  

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Marriage is a legal contract in most of the world.  It is only the Catholic church that has the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.  Protestant marriages are legal marriages that ask for the blessing of God, but they are not one of the three sacraments recognized by protestant churches.
  Many churches are moving towards blessing same sex marriages.  I think this will happen with some churches, and not with others.
  A courthouse marriage is no different than a protestant church marriage.  Both are legal, and God is in the courthouse, too!
  @wrigleyville, you sound bitter.  What church were you affiliated with and why did you leave?  I am so sorry.
  

  

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  January 2015 edited June 2015

  
  
  
  

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• wrigleyville member

  

  January 2015

  CMGragain said:

  Marriage is a legal contract in most of the world.  It is only the Catholic church that has the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.  Protestant marriages are legal marriages that ask for the blessing of God, but they are not one of the three sacraments recognized by protestant churches.
  Many churches are moving towards blessing same sex marriages.  I think this will happen with some churches, and not with others.
  A courthouse marriage is no different than a protestant church marriage.  Both are legal, and God is in the courthouse, too!
  @wrigleyville, you sound bitter.  What church were you affiliated with and why did you leave?  I am so sorry.
  

  The Catholic Church. I left because I don't agree with their teachings, and I don't believe in God.

  
  

  I'm not bitter at all. I'm happy.

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• CMGragain member

  

  January 2015

  wrigleyville said:

  CMGragain said:

  Marriage is a legal contract in most of the world.  It is only the Catholic church that has the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony.  Protestant marriages are legal marriages that ask for the blessing of God, but they are not one of the three sacraments recognized by protestant churches.
  Many churches are moving towards blessing same sex marriages.  I think this will happen with some churches, and not with others.
  A courthouse marriage is no different than a protestant church marriage.  Both are legal, and God is in the courthouse, too!
  @wrigleyville, you sound bitter.  What church were you affiliated with and why did you leave?  I am so sorry.
  

  The Catholic Church. I left because I don't agree with their teachings, and I don't believe in God.

  
  

  I'm not bitter at all. I'm happy.

  Glad to hear you aren't bitter.  America is great!  Plenty of choices.
  

  

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• CMGragain member

  

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  pinkrevenge said:

  Whatever. If they want to lose more followers and a LOT of revenue (how many people- even deeply religious ones- will have the cash to fork over for a ceremony that isn't legal?) to better stomp their feet and look like pouty children over gay marriage, fine by me. Doesn't affect me at all, seeing as I already don't have faith / am against faiths that don't recognize the LGBTQ population /am married / would ever have considered dropping the money for a full religious ceremony.
  
  I think many churches that go through with this are going to see a lot of their younger church members leaving and getting married in other parishes, if not converting completely to another sect.
  
  
  

  I do know that the United Methodist church has been debating this for some time, and the question will come up at the next conference.  There is a big push to recognize gay marriage.  We already accept gays as church members without prejudice.
  

  

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  I seriously don't get the resentment. What is wrong with separating the legal aspect of marriage from any religious aspect?

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• lyndausvi mod

  

  January 2015

  holyguacamole79 said:

  I seriously don't get the resentment. What is wrong with separating the legal aspect of marriage from any religious aspect?

  A lot of European countries already separate them.  Although it's the gov't who requires the separation not the clergy.  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  

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• jdluvr06 member

  

  January 2015

  holyguacamole79 said:

  I seriously don't get the resentment. What is wrong with separating the legal aspect of marriage from any religious aspect?

  
  I honestly thinks it comes across as childish.

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  lyndausvi said:

  
  

  holyguacamole79 said:

  
  

  I seriously don't get the resentment. What is wrong with separating the legal aspect of marriage from any religious aspect?

  
  

  A lot of European countries already separate them.  Although it's the gov't who requires the separation not the clergy.  
  
  Yeah, I see your point. I thought some of y'all would like it because it the church making a separation from the state. This would actually place more of a burden on couples seeking to have their marriage recognized by their church.

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  pinkrevenge said:

  Whatever. If they want to lose more followers and a LOT of revenue (how many people- even deeply religious ones- will have the cash to fork over for a ceremony that isn't legal?) to better stomp their feet and look like pouty children over gay marriage, fine by me. Doesn't affect me at all, seeing as I already don't have faith / am against faiths that don't recognize the LGBTQ population /am married / would ever have considered dropping the money for a full religious ceremony.
  
  I think many churches that go through with this are going to see a lot of their younger church members leaving and getting married in other parishes, if not converting completely to another sect.
  
  
  

  For me personally, I'd happily jump through hoops to make my marriage recognized by my church.

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  January 2015

  So they're refusing to sign legal documents because the homos are being treated like normal people? I'm not sure what God they worship but it's not one I want any of part of.

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  January 2015

  CMGragain said:

  
  

  pinkrevenge said:

  
  

  Whatever. If they want to lose more followers and a LOT of revenue (how many people- even deeply religious ones- will have the cash to fork over for a ceremony that isn't legal?) to better stomp their feet and look like pouty children over gay marriage, fine by me. Doesn't affect me at all, seeing as I already don't have faith / am against faiths that don't recognize the LGBTQ population /am married / would ever have considered dropping the money for a full religious ceremony.
  
  I think many churches that go through with this are going to see a lot of their younger church members leaving and getting married in other parishes, if not converting completely to another sect.
  
  
  

  
  

  I do know that the United Methodist church has been debating this for some time, and the question will come up at the next conference.  There is a big push to recognize gay marriage.  We already accept gays as church members without prejudice.
  
  
  How nice we can belong to the church. But they aren't sure if we should be allowed to be married in the same church we're members of. A place we worship in. Well at least we're allowed to show up on Sundays without being told we're gonna burn.

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• CMGragain member

  

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Sometimes I wonder what Jesus would think of today's churches.  You can't lump them all together.  They are so different.  The main thing that they all have in common is belief in God and following (or trying to follow) the teachings of Jesus.
  Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.  He did say a lot about love, though.
  

  

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• Inkdancer member

  

  January 2015

  I am so dang glad I'm a member and leader of a church that does not think like this.
  
  I do think it's an interesting concept, to deliberately separate church and state. But the point of separating church and state is to make sure that religion does not overtake government. For religious leaders to deliberately abandon special privileges given to them by the government, privileges that recognize them as important leaders of their respective groups, does seem to be a silly decision. It would be like all the Republicans resigning from congress because there was a Democratic majority--it's exactly the opposite of what they should do in order to achieve what they want.
  
  On the other hand, I am a-okay with bigoted jerks who won't perform same-sex marriages proceeding not to perform any legal marriages at all. If you won't do one, you shouldn't do any.
  

  

  

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• larrygaga member

  

  January 2015

  That's okay, more people on the good side!

  
  

  There are lots of {insert religious leader here} who support gay marriage. How boring would humans be if we never progressed!

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• theartistformerlyknownas member

  

  January 2015

  I don't see anything "cool" with forcing people to have wedding reenactments just so the church can find another way to get out of marrying same sex couples.
  
  It's not the church's responsibility to remove itself from government business - that's not what separation of church and state means. It means the government is obligated to not write legislation that's driven by religious principles, i.e. banning same sex marriage. Is the church also going to get out of the business of educating children too, because that's the government's job? Maybe only gay kids. As long as there are secular options for things, like being married by a justice of the peace or attending public school, things are adequately separated.
  
  This is dumb and immature.

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  I don't mean this to be snarky or condescending. How many of you would you would have been affected if this became a reality?

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  January 2015 edited June 2015

  
  

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• wrigleyville member

  

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I'm trying to reply to holyguacamole, but TK is glitching.
  
  
  
  Here's the thing. It's not about you or me. It's about everybody. Isn't that what Jesus teaches?
  
  Just because something doesn't affect me personally doesn't mean I don't care about it. It obviously affects other people, so yeah... I care.

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  @pinkrevenge‌ , we most likely run in different circles. The friends I know who married in the church would have had it no other way.

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  January 2015 edited June 2015

  
  

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  wrigleyville said:

  
  I'm trying to reply to holyguacamole, but TK is glitching.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Here's the thing. It's not about you or me. It's about everybody. Isn't that what Jesus teaches?
  

  
  

  Just because something doesn't affect me personally doesn't mean I don't care about it. It obviously affects other people, so yeah... I care.

  I was simply curious if it would have directly affected anyone in this discussion. I never said that you weren't allowed to care.

  
  
  
  
  

  

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• VulgarGirl member

  

  January 2015

  So.. your friends would have two separate ceremonies because a clergy member won't sign their straight marriage certificate because gay people now get the same rights they do as straight people?
  
  My friends believe all people should be treated equally. Sort of like that Jesus guy did.

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  January 2015 edited June 2015

  
  

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• jdluvr06 member

  

  January 2015

  @holyguacamole79‌ do you honestly not see what a bad decision this would be for churches? Church attendance is at an all time low across the country. People are leaving religious organizations in record numbers. Three Christian schools in my area have had to close in the past two years because of low enrollment and they couldn't afford to keep there doors open. I am in freaking Kentucky and enrollment of Christian schools is low. If it is that low heere imagine how it must be in the rest of the country. If religion in this country wants to survive it needs to be more inclusive not less.

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• lyndausvi mod

  

  January 2015

  While I do not condone the reasons (actually the reason is pretty stupid), fact is people all over Europe and other countires already have to have to 2 ceremonies if they want to have religious ceremony.   It's just what they do.     Again it's the gov't that requires it, not the religion. 

  
  

   So initially it might be an issue for some, but a true Catholic will still get married in the church.

  
  

   It will keep those who are not religious from just shopping around for the prettiest church from doing that anymore. 

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  

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• holyguacamole79 member

  

  January 2015

  Fwiw, this article was shared by a religion scholar who is an agnostic lesbian. She made the comment that ministers / priests should not be administering the state's work anyway. I'm not so bold to think that everyone would share her beliefs, but she shares a lot of beliefs y'all espouse, so I thought the community would appreciate it. Thanks for the perspective.

  
  
  
  
  

  

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