I can't believe I am posting this...

Re: I can't believe I am posting this...

• huskypuppy14 member

  

  January 2015

  strawberrybee9 said:

  This is going to be long, and I am honestly not sure whether I will be eviscerated for this for being "controlling," but I do need advice, so here it goes:
  
  I am getting married in less than 12 weeks, so I'm getting ready to send out the invitations at the 8-week mark. I have a very good friend (let's call her K) who lives out of town, but I got to see her recently while traveling. I'd sent her a Save the Date over the summer for her and her then-boyfriend (will call him S) but they broke up since then. Without mentioning it to my friend K, I had taken S's name off the guest list as a result of their breakup. I'd never met S so he wasn't a friend of mine or FI's who we would have invited otherwise.
  
  Well, while we were having dinner the other night, my friend K said to me, "Oh, and you were so nice to invite S; who knows, maybe he'll still come." I was surprised, but didn't say much, because honestly, I was thinking at that time, well, if they got back together or wanted to go as friends, that's totally fine and I'd just add his name to her invitation after all, or put an "and guest" on there, and let her figure that out when it was time.
  
  Thennnn... she proceeded to tell me that he's been doing crystal meth, and that had to do with their breakup. We spent a lot of time talking that night about how to help him, should she tell his family, etc. I recommended she attend Nar-Anon or Al-Anon meetings herself to learn how to cope with the situation, potentially help herself or him, etc.
  
  First and foremost (and this is totally non-WR), I am worried about my friend potentially being sucked into a potentially violent or volatile situation, especially because she tends to have a savior complex and because she is the only one in his life who knows about his addiction. She is a sweet, selfless (too selfless, sometimes) person, one of the kindest and most giving people I've ever met, but she thinks she can help him on her own (and she hasn't apparently ruled out getting back together with him). What I should do to help her with this is not a question I'm expecting this board to be able to answer; I feel I'm going to need to figure that one out on my own, or go elsewhere for help. (Although if anyone does have advice on that, please share, because I'm all ears).
  
  The obnoxious and self-centered question is this, and I'm sorry, but: Do I still have to include his name on the invitation? What if I put "K + guest"? What if she still brings him? Can I just send an invitation addressed to only "K" if she's expecting "S" to still be invited?
  
  (Please be kind-ish in your responses. I'm not trying to sound rude or self-centered; I just need help navigating this one. Thanks.)
  

  Are they currently in a relationship? If not, and they are just friends, you have no obligation to include him in your guest list. He was invited as a SO of your friend K. If they broke up, K shouldn't expect him to still be invited. 

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

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• AddieCake member

  

  January 2015

  strawberrybee9 said:

  This is going to be long, and I am honestly not sure whether I will be eviscerated for this for being "controlling," but I do need advice, so here it goes:
  
  I am getting married in less than 12 weeks, so I'm getting ready to send out the invitations at the 8-week mark. I have a very good friend (let's call her K) who lives out of town, but I got to see her recently while traveling. I'd sent her a Save the Date over the summer for her and her then-boyfriend (will call him S) but they broke up since then. Without mentioning it to my friend K, I had taken S's name off the guest list as a result of their breakup. I'd never met S so he wasn't a friend of mine or FI's who we would have invited otherwise.
  
  Well, while we were having dinner the other night, my friend K said to me, "Oh, and you were so nice to invite S; who knows, maybe he'll still come." I was surprised, but didn't say much, because honestly, I was thinking at that time, well, if they got back together or wanted to go as friends, that's totally fine and I'd just add his name to her invitation after all, or put an "and guest" on there, and let her figure that out when it was time.
  
  Thennnn... she proceeded to tell me that he's been doing crystal meth, and that had to do with their breakup. We spent a lot of time talking that night about how to help him, should she tell his family, etc. I recommended she attend Nar-Anon or Al-Anon meetings herself to learn how to cope with the situation, potentially help herself or him, etc.
  
  First and foremost (and this is totally non-WR), I am worried about my friend potentially being sucked into a potentially violent or volatile situation, especially because she tends to have a savior complex and because she is the only one in his life who knows about his addiction. She is a sweet, selfless (too selfless, sometimes) person, one of the kindest and most giving people I've ever met, but she thinks she can help him on her own (and she hasn't apparently ruled out getting back together with him). What I should do to help her with this is not a question I'm expecting this board to be able to answer; I feel I'm going to need to figure that one out on my own, or go elsewhere for help. (Although if anyone does have advice on that, please share, because I'm all ears).
  
  The obnoxious and self-centered question is this, and I'm sorry, but: Do I still have to include his name on the invitation? What if I put "K + guest"? What if she still brings him? Can I just send an invitation addressed to only "K" if she's expecting "S" to still be invited?
  
  (Please be kind-ish in your responses. I'm not trying to sound rude or self-centered; I just need help navigating this one. Thanks.)
  

  You do not need to invite S since he is no longer her boyfriend and you are not friends with him outside of their relationship. If she has a new boyfriend, the new boyfriend should be invited. As to whether or not your give her a +1 if she is single, that is up to you whether or not you are giving single guests the option of bringing a guest. If she brings him, she brings him. 

  What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14

  

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• jacques27 member

  

  January 2015

  Agree with the other two, but wanted to reiterate that if you decide to give her "and guest", you don't get to pick that guest.  So you need to be prepared that she may bring him.  If you can't handle that possibility, that don't extend her the opportunity to bring a guest.  You can't take back the "and guest" once you've offered it and you can't dictate who it can or cannot be.
  

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• esstee33 member

  

  January 2015

  Agreed with PPs -- unless they get back together, you're under no obligation to invite him any longer. You do have to understand that she can bring him as a guest if you offer her a plus one, and if she does, you can't do anything about it. 

  
  

  I think it's great that you guys had so much discussion about how to help him, and it shows that you're a good friend who cares. However, savior complex or not, you can't make her choices for her, as much as that sucks (I know, I've been there). If she's going to get caught up in trying to "fix" him, that's on her, and all you can do is be a supportive friend if and when she needs you. 

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• Jen4948 member

  

  January 2015

  jacques27 said:

  Agree with the other two, but wanted to reiterate that if you decide to give her "and guest", you don't get to pick that guest.  So you need to be prepared that she may bring him.  If you can't handle that possibility, that don't extend her the opportunity to bring a guest.  You can't take back the "and guest" once you've offered it and you can't dictate who it can or cannot be.
  

  I agree. If you don't want her to bring him, don't offer her an "and guest."

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• blabla89 member

  

  January 2015

  
  

  Jen4948 said:

  Agree with the other two, but wanted to reiterate that if you decide to give her "and guest", you don't get to pick that guest.  So you need to be prepared that she may bring him.  If you can't handle that possibility, that don't extend her the opportunity to bring a guest.  You can't take back the "and guest" once you've offered it and you can't dictate who it can or cannot be.
  

  I agree. If you don't want her to bring him, don't offer her an "and guest."

  Yep. Depending on whether they're together when you send the invitations, you could send the invitation only to K. Then if she asks whether she can bring S (or another guest), you can decide whether it's better to say yes that's fine, or express your hesitation about S.
  

  

  
  
  

  
  

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• WhatawagSBNy member

  

  January 2015

  jacques27 said:

  Agree with the other two, but wanted to reiterate that if you decide to give her "and guest", you don't get to pick that guest.  So you need to be prepared that she may bring him.  If you can't handle that possibility, that don't extend her the opportunity to bring a guest.  You can't take back the "and guest" once you've offered it and you can't dictate who it can or cannot be.
  

  ****
  I agree.

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• danamw member

  

  January 2015

  If people are such good friends, why is there such hesitancy about simply talking about a problem, such as "I am not sure I want a crystal-meth user at my wedding" ? Aren't close friends able to talk about such an important thing in one's life? To come to a decision about a matter in a friend's life? Or does etiquette trump every notion of friendship and common sense?

  What if you found a friend's SO on one of those Sex Offender websites? Who would still feel good about inviting him to your wedding? Because etiquette says you invite a guest's SO, no matter what?

  Geez.

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• AddieCake member

  

  January 2015

  danamw said:

  If people are such good friends, why is there such hesitancy about simply talking about a problem, such as "I am not sure I want a crystal-meth user at my wedding" ? Aren't close friends able to talk about such an important thing in one's life? To come to a decision about a matter in a friend's life? Or does etiquette trump every notion of friendship and common sense?

  What if you found a friend's SO on one of those Sex Offender websites? Who would still feel good about inviting him to your wedding? Because etiquette says you invite a guest's SO, no matter what?

  Geez.

  There are all kinds of people doing things nobody knows about who attend weddings. Unless he is a confirmed thief or has assaulted someone,  just because he has used meth does not mean he is automatically the scum of the earth and cannot be allowed as someone's date. 

  What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14

  

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• danamw member

  

  January 2015

  You have missed the point of my question.

  Where do you draw the line? Nowhere? Once you invite someone with a plus 1, you are stuck with whoever they bring?

  
  

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• AddieCake member

  

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  danamw said:

  You have missed the point of my question.

  Where do you draw the line? Nowhere? Once you invite someone with a plus 1, you are stuck with whoever they bring?

  
  

  No, you missed the point of my response. Yes, you are stuck with whomever they bring unless that person has knowingly been a source of danger to anyone. Lots of people are on drugs and nobody knows it, so nobody questions whether or not to invite them. The person who is doing meth is no more a danger than the secret others unless he or she is also a known thief or has been violent or otherwise abusive. 

  What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14

  

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• WhatawagSBNy member

  

  January 2015

  AddieCake said:

  
  

  danamw said:

  
  

  If people are such good friends, why is there such hesitancy about simply talking about a problem, such as "I am not sure I want a crystal-meth user at my wedding" ? Aren't close friends able to talk about such an important thing in one's life? To come to a decision about a matter in a friend's life? Or does etiquette trump every notion of friendship and common sense?

  What if you found a friend's SO on one of those Sex Offender websites? Who would still feel good about inviting him to your wedding? Because etiquette says you invite a guest's SO, no matter what?

  Geez.

  
  

  There are all kinds of people doing things nobody knows about who attend weddings. Unless he is a confirmed thief or has assaulted someone,  just because he has used meth does not mean he is automatically the scum of the earth and cannot be allowed as someone's date. 
  
  ********
  I agree. But I also agree with the previous poster's statement, if she is such a good friend, why don't you ask her? Find out from the source. She just separated from someone, she likely wants to talk about how he is doing, and how she feels.
  
  We are all friends first and brides with problems to solve second.

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• justsie member

  

  January 2015

  If you don't want to invite the SO then don't invite the friend. Sounds like you are just looking for a way to excuse not wanting someone to come to the wedding, and it's perfectly fine to not invite someone, but it is rude to invite someone to celebrate your relationship and condemn theirs (regardless of who it is with).

  My FH used to use cocaine, sure he did a lot of things on it that he wouldn't have done when he wasn't on it but he wasn't violent nor did he steal from anyone. If I had been invited somewhere to celebrate someone's love without getting to bring the person I love I'd see it as a rude thing to do and I'd probably decline and rethink that friendship depending on who it was. 

  

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• AddieCake member

  

  January 2015

  sierra2016 said:

  If you don't want to invite the SO then don't invite the friend. Sounds like you are just looking for a way to excuse not wanting someone to come to the wedding, and it's perfectly fine to not invite someone, but it is rude to invite someone to celebrate your relationship and condemn theirs (regardless of who it is with).

  My FH used to use cocaine, sure he did a lot of things on it that he wouldn't have done when he wasn't on it but he wasn't violent nor did he steal from anyone. If I had been invited somewhere to celebrate someone's love without getting to bring the person I love I'd see it as a rude thing to do and I'd probably decline and rethink that friendship depending on who it was. 

  The person in question is not the friend's SO. He is her ex. 

  What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14

  

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• danamw member

  

  January 2015

  Without getting into this too deep, there was a close family member of hub's who was a drug user, and he caused immense pain to a lot of people. What he did had reverberations, that are felt to this day.

  I don't tend to be very tolerant of active drug users, and I would never enable. I have a lot of respect and would help someone who is in recovery.

  I am obviously talking of situations that are known, not secret double lives of my guests.

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• [Deleted User] member

  

  January 2015

  Your friend and S are no longer an item, so you don't have to offer her a +1 at all, but for the sake of clear lines, I would then not extend +1s to any truly-single guests.
  If you do offer it and she does want to bring him, you'll have to decide if that's the hill you want to die on. Unless he's stolen from people or become violent, it might just be easier to give the venue his name and a picture of him, and let them know that he needs to have an eye on him. Make sure the bartender knows he could be problematic, make sure security knows to keep on eye on him, and make sure the venue knows that if he's caught doing something (stealing gifts or from guests, getting out of hand, other suspicious activities, just for an example) that they're to throw him out. And you could warn your friend of the same and let her know that it makes you uncomfortable without outright banning him.
  
  Whatever you do, make sure your language makes it clear that you're more concerned about your friend and S's actions / drug use than you are of your wedding day being less-perfect. One shows you care, the other makes you sound snobby and cold.
  

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• WhatawagSBNy member

  

  January 2015

  So many times on this site I have seen people post, give warning to security and point a person out, or give a picture , to indicate a person may be high on drugs or get rowdy if drinking to much. (different from asking bartender to cut him off.)
  
  Where do you people post from that wedding venues, halls or restaurants have that kind of security on hand. Some nightclubs, yes. But wedding venues?
  
  I know people who have decided to invite a potential troublemaker. And when they talk to the management or security ( like hotel security in function room) they have always, always said. That if you have a known potential troublemaker of any kind, u invite him. Because if we see this guy, we will call police on sight of him. And you, not the venue will be legally responsible, because you knew in advance of the problem. Every venue contract I have ever seen, including places where I worked catering near and in Boston ( not just here in the Northern Kingdom) and Seattle , all say such an occurrence will NOT be covered by venue insurance.
  
  Where will they do this with security?

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• justsie member

  

  January 2015

  AddieCake said:

  sierra2016 said:

  If you don't want to invite the SO then don't invite the friend. Sounds like you are just looking for a way to excuse not wanting someone to come to the wedding, and it's perfectly fine to not invite someone, but it is rude to invite someone to celebrate your relationship and condemn theirs (regardless of who it is with).

  My FH used to use cocaine, sure he did a lot of things on it that he wouldn't have done when he wasn't on it but he wasn't violent nor did he steal from anyone. If I had been invited somewhere to celebrate someone's love without getting to bring the person I love I'd see it as a rude thing to do and I'd probably decline and rethink that friendship depending on who it was. 

  The person in question is not the friend's SO. He is her ex. 

  Thanks for the clarification- I was initially only replying to danamw since she was the one that brought up drug use, so thank you for pointing that out!
  

  

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• slothiegal member

  

  January 2015

  WhatawagSBNy said:

  So many times on this site I have seen people post, give warning to security and point a person out, or give a picture , to indicate a person may be high on drugs or get rowdy if drinking to much. (different from asking bartender to cut him off.) Where do you people post from that wedding venues, halls or restaurants have that kind of security on hand. Some nightclubs, yes. But wedding venues? I know people who have decided to invite a potential troublemaker. And when they talk to the management or security ( like hotel security in function room) they have always, always said. That if you have a known potential troublemaker of any kind, u invite him. Because if we see this guy, we will call police on sight of him. And you, not the venue will be legally responsible, because you knew in advance of the problem. Every venue contract I have ever seen, including places where I worked catering near and in Boston ( not just here in the Northern Kingdom) and Seattle , all say such an occurrence will NOT be covered by venue insurance. Where will they do this with security?

  Personally, our venue required a security officer for over a certain number of guests (I think it was 50?).  We were responsible for paying for one to be present.

  

  
  

  
  

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• SP29 member

  

  January 2015

  Agree with the above, no you don't have to invite him, but if you give your friend a plus one, she can bring whomever she likes.

  
  

  Have you tried the angle, "K, I know you care about S and want to help him, but I'm worried for you" and go from there? 

  
  

  Other than that, you cannot make her decisions for her or protect her when she is an adult. Just be supportive. 

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• WhatawagSBNy member

  

  January 2015

  slothiegal said:

  
  

  WhatawagSBNy said:

  
  

  So many times on this site I have seen people post, give warning to security and point a person out, or give a picture , to indicate a person may be high on drugs or get rowdy if drinking to much. (different from asking bartender to cut him off.)
  
  Where do you people post from that wedding venues, halls or restaurants have that kind of security on hand. Some nightclubs, yes. But wedding venues?
  ..... Cut
  

  Personally, our venue required a security officer for over a certain number of guests (I think it was 50?).  We were responsible for paying for one to be present.

  **********
  I guess since here and in NY where we married the venue has to take care of 250 or so before requiring you hire, and the only indoor places that big are hotels with staff. Except for 2 hotels where you know someone is around, I have never seen a cop or security in the last 30 or so weddings.

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• lc07 member

  

  January 2015

  I, too, was required to hire private security for my wedding per my contract with the venue I rented. It was actually really inexpensive IMO. $250 for 5 hours. I live in San Diego, CA, which I think is a very HCOL city.
  

  OP, I'm sorry your friend is going through a rough time. Generally, you wouldn't mention who is not invited per etiquette but if you addressed an STD with his name on it, it is understandable that your friend thinks that he is invited. Also, because your friend has voiced that she thinks he is invited, I think that's when you speak up that since they broke up you are no longer planning to invite him.

  
  

  Agree with PPs that if you give her a +1 you do not get to dictate who the +1 is.

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• strawberrybee9 member

  

  January 2015

  I agree. That is why, in my original post, I shared nearly two full paragraphs about wanting to help my friend.
  

  WhatawagSBNy said:

  danamw said:

  If people are such good friends, why is there such hesitancy about simply talking about a problem, such as "I am not sure I want a crystal-meth user at my wedding" ? Aren't close friends able to talk about such an important thing in one's life? To come to a decision about a matter in a friend's life? Or does etiquette trump every notion of friendship and common sense?

  What if you found a friend's SO on one of those Sex Offender websites? Who would still feel good about inviting him to your wedding? Because etiquette says you invite a guest's SO, no matter what?

  Geez.

  There are all kinds of people doing things nobody knows about who attend weddings. Unless he is a confirmed thief or has assaulted someone,  just because he has used meth does not mean he is automatically the scum of the earth and cannot be allowed as someone's date. 

  ******** I agree. But I also agree with the previous poster's statement, if she is such a good friend, why don't you ask her? Find out from the source. She just separated from someone, she likely wants to talk about how he is doing, and how she feels. We are all friends first and brides with problems to solve second.

  
  

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• strawberrybee9 member

  

  January 2015

  lc07 said:

  I, too, was required to hire private security for my wedding per my contract with the venue I rented. It was actually really inexpensive IMO. $250 for 5 hours. I live in San Diego, CA, which I think is a very HCOL city.

  
  

  OP, I'm sorry your friend is going through a rough time. Generally, you wouldn't mention who is not invited per etiquette but if you addressed an STD with his name on it, it is understandable that your friend thinks that he is invited. Also, because your friend has voiced that she thinks he is invited, I think that's when you speak up that since they broke up you are no longer planning to invite him.

  
  

  Agree with PPs that if you give her a +1 you do not get to dictate who the +1 is.

  Thank you for your advice and help!
  

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• strawberrybee9 member

  

  January 2015

  Thank you to everyone who posted. To be clear, this is her ex whose name was on the Save-the-Date with her. I do understand if I give her a plus-one, I don't get to tell her whom to invite. Just trying to figure out where to go from here.
  
  My friend and I spent a lot of time talking about how to get someone help when they don't think they need it. Sadly, I continue to be worried about my friend, but I think (hope) she knows that.
  

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• WhatawagSBNy member

  

  January 2015

  strawberrybee9 said:

  Thank you to everyone who posted. To be clear, this is her ex whose name was on the Save-the-Date with her. I do understand if I give her a plus-one, I don't get to tell her whom to invite. Just trying to figure out where to go from here.
  
  My friend and I spent a lot of time talking about how to get someone help when they don't think they need it. Sadly, I continue to be worried about my friend, but I think (hope) she knows that.
  

  ************
  If someone could find a way friends and loved ones could save people from themselves, it would be like a simple pill to cure cancer.
  
  Most people at some time in their life go through this, and it is always heartrending when you care.
  
  

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• strawberrybee9 member

  

  April 2015

  In case anyone ever wondered what happened with this:
  
  We invited her with "and guest," she brought him, and he was lovely. He seems to be working out his problems, and my friend seems happy. A good ending for everyone.
  

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• RussianCinderella member

  

  April 2015

  Glad this ended well for everyone! 

  

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• TheArtemisMoon member

  

  May 2015

  No way! Someone who is doing meth does not need to be at your wedding! What if he brings that stuff to your wedding? You will be held liable in most cases. That's a very dangerous chance and could cause you a lot of legal trouble in the end. 

  

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