Update the talk happened. I need some serious advice from strangers.

mrsk616 · February 2015

SJM7538 said:

@maeday2‌ I still do have questions about the AM profile. this is going to take awhile and I know that. my plan is to go back to my counselor solo and get a reccomended for a marriage counselor. also, the support means a lot to me. my friends think I'm nuts and that I shouldnt believe a word he says so having some reassurance is really helpful right now.

you are not nuts they might not have gone through something like this before so they might not understand what you are going through. you are trying to save a marriage. hang in there.

firebabe6519 · February 2015

SJM7538 said:
@maeday2‌ I still do have questions about the AM profile. this is going to take awhile and I know that. my plan is to go back to my counselor solo and get a reccomended for a marriage counselor. also, the support means a lot to me.

my friends think I'm nuts and that I shouldnt believe a word he says so having some reassurance is
really helpful right now.

I would be extremely cautious in believing anything your H says at this point. You caught him redhanded. He had absolutely no other option than to fess up to what you had clear hard evidence to present him with.

I have been in a similar place as you are now. My then FI was looking at porn and hiding it (even though I offered to watch it together), searching Craigslist personal adds and even posting his own. He even made a separate email I didn't know about to post and reply to adds so he could meet up with and fuck other women.

And guess what, when I found his add with an undeniable pic of him in it, he fessed up and agreed to counseling despite being dead set against it. But the deceipt and cheating didn't stop there. No it continued for another year; he just hid it better. We were expecting our first child and then I get contacted by two other people he was fucking (one girlfriend and one pregnant fiance -with a wedding date set one month away which would put it at the weekend after we were supposed to return from our honeymoon). Apparently the girlfriend had gone through his phone and found both of us listed plus all his texts and calls. So she contacted each of us. We ended up losing the baby thanks to an STD from one of his other bedmates and that was the end of our relationship.

So lesson to be learned, don't let "I want to save my marriage / relationship" blinders keep you in the dark to further deceit. Trust needs to be earned, and right now, your H hasn't earned squat. He needs to work very hard to earn that trust back. And if he isn't willing to open up and admit to his cheating, whether physical, mental, or emotional, without having his hand forced by hard evidence... Drop him like a hot potato because you deserve to be in a trusting and honest relationship where you don't need to wonder who or what your husband is doing.

abbyj700 · February 2015

firebabe6519 - I'm sure in some cases you are completely right. You went through a horrible mess with someone who was terrible to you. BUT not everyone is in your same scenario. I respect the OP for trying to save her marriage. It may end up awful. Or it may be that she has turned a hard time in to a time of growth for both she and her husband. No two people's situations are the same.

amelisha · February 2015

While I wish you luck...be careful. I would be extremely wary of swallowing that entire explanation. I really do hope that it's honest for your sake, but...yeah.

ashley8918 · February 2015

maeday2 said:

I hope counseling provides you with the help and guidance you need to work through this.

I have to wonder about the AM explanation, though. Was there a way on his profile to check when the account was created, like "member since X date"? I just don't think I would seek out a website that is targeted toward adultery if I wanted something less serious, like he claims.

The timing seems odd, too. I would wonder why now is the time to cancel the profile when it seems as though you guys are going through a lot already.

I'm cautiously optimistic for you, OP!

I agree. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but this website is specifically for people who have a spouse/significant other and want to have an affair. His explanation sounds like a total load to me, and I wouldn't believe it for a second. Same with the personal ads thing. If you are looking "for the fantasy of it", you look at porn. You don't seek out real like people offering to act out these fantasies with you.

Regardless, I wish you the best, and I hope everything works out for you.

tpwkalyn · February 2015

OP, I'm really glad you got to talk things out with him.

Like other PP's have said, it's definitely going to be an uphill battle from here, but I am really rooting for you guys.

Hugs & love to you

levioosa · February 2015

I agree with other PPs. I am so glad for you that he finally agreed to go to counseling, however, I would be extremely careful, and I wouldn't believe his whole spiel hook, line, and sinker. It seems very convenient that he's had an AM profile for "years" and only just now tried to cancel it when the point of the dating website is to help you cheat on your SO and you guys have been on the rocks. Honestly, I think that's making me the most apprehensive. What kind of person would sign up for a AM type website to begin with? I would buy his story a little more if it had been some other normal dating website. But AM? It's just so skeevy.

Work on your marriage, of course. It's something you try to save and cherish. But don't be afraid to cherish and save yourself too, especially if he falls into the same patterns again.

Also, are you truly okay with him "acting out his fantasies" by creating fake profiles on Craigslist, or is that something you said in the moment out of fear of losing him? If you're not actually okay with it, this will all resurface again and you will resent him for it. I still think it was kind of a "oh shit, I'm caught!" excuse, but obviously I wasn't there and I don't know everything that was said.

Take care of yourself, OP.

FiancB · February 2015

I agree the explanation really bothers me. It makes sense if he were looking at kink sites or something like that. To me looking at AM and craigslist definitely points to toying with the idea of cheating, even if he hasn't done it, and that's a problem. If you hadn't caught him it would have probably progressed to actual cheating eventually. Why would he have made an AM profile years ago when he presumably wasn't married yet?

Like others said, he doesn't have much other choice but to fess up when confronted with evidence. And agreeing to counseling is easier than going through a divorce and having to make some major life changes. People don't like change. If there itching to have someone else to fuck it's a lot easier to have something on the side than to go through a breakup, especially divorce.

I'm glad things went pretty well and he opened up, but I would still tread carefully. I do totally get wanting to give him a chance to save your marriage. Thinking of you.

maeday2 · February 2015

FiancB said:

I agree the explanation really bothers me. It makes sense if he were looking at kink sites or something like that. To me looking at AM and craigslist definitely points to toying with the idea of cheating, even if he hasn't done it, and that's a problem. If you hadn't caught him it would have probably progressed to actual cheating eventually. Why would he have made an AM profile years ago when he presumably wasn't married yet?

Exactly my thoughts. Those two sites show intent, in my opinion.

Most people would not stick their toes into these waters if they did not intend on taking a swan dive into the deep end at some point.

He needs to be completely transparent about this. You can't build trust back up (if y'all so choose) without knowing the full story first.

photokitty · February 2015

firebabe6519 said:

@maeday2‌ I still do have questions about the AM profile. this is going to take awhile and I know that. my plan is to go back to my counselor solo and get a reccomended for a marriage counselor. also, the support means a lot to me. my friends think I'm nuts and that I shouldnt believe a word he says so having some reassurance is really helpful right now.
I would be extremely cautious in believing anything your H says at this point. You caught him redhanded. He had absolutely no other option than to fess up to what you had clear hard evidence to present him with. I have been in a similar place as you are now. My then FI was looking at porn and hiding it (even though I offered to watch it together), searching Craigslist personal adds and even posting his own. He even made a separate email I didn't know about to post and reply to adds so he could meet up with and fuck other whores. And guess what, when I found his add with an undeniable pic of him in it, he fessed up and agreed to counseling despite being dead set against it. But the deceipt and cheating didn't stop there. No it continued for another year; he just hid it better. We were expecting our first child and then I get contacted by two other people he was fucking (one girlfriend and one pregnant fiance -with a wedding date set one month away which would put it at the weekend after we were supposed to return from our honeymoon). Apparently the girlfriend had gone through his phone and found both of us listed plus all his texts and calls. So she contacted each of us. We ended up losing the baby thanks to an STD from one of his sluts and that was the end of our relationship. So lesson to be learned, don't let "I want to save my marriage / relationship" blinders keep you in the dark to further deceit. Trust needs to be earned, and right now, your H hasn't earned squat. He needs to work very hard to earn that trust back. And if he isn't willing to open up and admit to his cheating, whether physical, mental, or emotional, without having his hand forced by hard evidence... Drop him like a hot potato because you deserve to be in a trusting and honest relationship where you don't need to wonder who or what your husband is doing.

I'm really sorry for what happened, but you need to talk to someone if you are still blaming his "sluts" and not him for the loss of the baby. What makes these women sluts and not you? Nothing you said makes them sluts, but rather victims of your ex's lies and cheating. They didn't do anything wrong, unless they knew he was married - pretty sure no one would be planning to marry a married man in one month. What a tragic situation. Women need to remember it is the cheater's fault, not the other woman(women) he deceived. I hope you can find peace and move forward.

Otherwise this is good advice, be care OP with what you believe. Lay down ground rules and get into therapy ASAP. Until he actually goes all your have are empty promises. GL!

FiancB · February 2015

When I was with my ex toward the end, I knew I needed to dump him but I was really dragging my feet on it. We were long distance and things had been getting progressively shittier for a long time for a lot of reasons. I started looking at dating sites before we broke up, kind of wanting to see what was out there I guess. It was my first serious and long term relationship and I guess I needed to know I wasn't going to be alone forever if we broke up.

I didn't cheat on him but its' not something I would have done if I was not seriously thinking about breaking up and was not seriously unhappy with our relationship. He ended up dumping me a couple months later or so, thank fuck.

So yeah. That's why it sounds like testing the water to me. May not be serious intent, but there is definitely some intent.

KatieinBkln · February 2015

I am so glad he's willing to go to counseling with you. This shows he's at least willing to admit there are problems and that he's interested in saving his marriage.

Kudos to you for broaching the subject and standing up for yourself!

I agree with PPs that you should be pretty careful with your heart. I would definitely be pushing for answers (at your counseling sessions) re: Ashley Madison and craigslist. It's entirely possible that for your H the "danger" and "taboo" of actually seeking out a stranger is part of his kink (and he'd never act on it) but it's more likely that he was toying with these sites because there was some part of him that really DID want to meet up with someone else.

If it's true he hasn't gone through with it, I see it as a good sign in a problematic situation. The situation is still worrisome, but if he held back from actually cheating on you then at the very least he still wants YOU more than he wants THAT.

Good luck to you both--I'm proud of you for taking these steps.

lovegood90 · February 2015

Thank you for sharing! I wish you both the best of luck and I hope you do well in counseling together.

ginnybinny17 · February 2015

I hope he's transparent and forthcoming in counseling. Best of luck to you!

themosthappy91 · February 2015

I'm really happy that he's agreed to counseling but I have to be honest- in your position I think I would insist he get a full work up for STDs, as well as getting myself checked. I'm cautiously optimistic that he hasn't actually taken that step and physically cheated on you at this point, but my feeling is you can't be too careful when it comes to your health with these sorts of things.

firebabe6519 · February 2015

photokitty said:

firebabe6519 said:

@maeday2‌ I still do have questions about the AM profile. this is going to take awhile and I know that. my plan is to go back to my counselor solo and get a reccomended for a marriage counselor. also, the support means a lot to me.

my friends think I'm nuts and that I shouldnt believe a word he says so having some reassurance is
really helpful right now.
I would be extremely cautious in believing anything your H says at this point. You caught him redhanded. He had absolutely no other option than to fess up to what you had clear hard evidence to present him with.

I have been in a similar place as you are now. My then FI was looking at porn and hiding it (even though I offered to watch it together), searching Craigslist personal adds and even posting his own. He even made a separate email I didn't know about to post and reply to adds so he could meet up with and fuck other whores.

And guess what, when I found his add with an undeniable pic of him in it, he fessed up and agreed to counseling despite being dead set against it. But the deceipt and cheating didn't stop there. No it continued for another year; he just hid it better. We were expecting our first child and then I get contacted by two other people he was fucking (one girlfriend and one pregnant fiance -with a wedding date set one month away which would put it at the weekend after we were supposed to return from our honeymoon). Apparently the girlfriend had gone through his phone and found both of us listed plus all his texts and calls. So she contacted each of us. We ended up losing the baby thanks to an STD from one of his sluts and that was the end of our relationship.

So lesson to be learned, don't let "I want to save my marriage / relationship" blinders keep you in the dark to further deceit. Trust needs to be earned, and right now, your H hasn't earned squat. He needs to work very hard to earn that trust back. And if he isn't willing to open up and admit to his cheating, whether physical, mental, or emotional, without having his hand forced by hard evidence... Drop him like a hot potato because you deserve to be in a trusting and honest relationship where you don't need to wonder who or what your husband is doing.

I'm really sorry for what happened, but you need to talk to someone if you are still blaming his "sluts" and not him for the loss of the baby. What makes these women sluts and not you? Nothing you said makes them sluts, but rather victims of your ex's lies and cheating. They didn't do anything wrong, unless they knew he was married - pretty sure no one would be planning to marry a married man in one month. What a tragic situation. Women need to remember it is the cheater's fault, not the other woman(women) he deceived. I hope you can find peace and move forward.

Otherwise this is good advice, be care OP with what you believe. Lay down ground rules and get into therapy ASAP. Until he actually goes all your have are empty promises. GL!

My apologies. Post has been corrected. You are correct; I should only blame him for the deciept and loss.

tcnoble · February 2015

The AM profile would be too much for me, personally... but about 4 years in our relationship I caught FI (then-boyfriend) doing the craigslist thing too.

Saw the emails on his phone when I innocently picked it up to google something. I freaked the fuck out. There were no signs of us having a tough time, no indicators he might be cheating or looking to cheat. I was totally blindsided. We were only about 2 years in to our relationship at that point. Once I was able to rationally talk about things and not want to slap him, it was a total fantasy thing. I asked why he didn't come to me with these fantasies. He said, admittedly, up to that point our sex life was very "vanilla" and we hadn't really crossed in to that "let's try freaky things" yet, so this was his way of digging in to that fantasy a little more. He admitted he'd never met up with anyone, never exchanged phone numbers, it was purely fantasy. I believed him then, and I believe him now. As opposed to the OP, I've never had reason to believe he was cheating or lying otherwise. So it was (in the end) something we were able to get past.

Buuuut like I said, a married man using the AM site is a little too much IMO.

southernbelle0915 · February 2015

Best of luck in counseling. Meaningful counseling is a lot of work and both parties need to be "all in". I hope it all works out for you.

I'm with others on the not buying an ounce of what he said about AM and Craigslist. AM is for people who are in a serious relationship and want to cheat. It sounds like when he joined, he was single and looking for something casual. THAT'S what Craigslist is for, not AM. If he's trying to act out fantasies, why read ads on Craigslist when he's already looking at porn? Sorry, but none of it makes any sense to me.

climbingsingle · February 2015

southernbelle0915 said:

Best of luck in counseling. Meaningful counseling is a lot of work and both parties need to be "all in". I hope it all works out for you.

I'm with others on the not buying an ounce of what he said about AM and Craigslist. AM is for people who are in a serious relationship and want to cheat. It sounds like when he joined, he was single and looking for something casual. THAT'S what Craigslist is for, not AM. If he's trying to act out fantasies, why read ads on Craigslist when he's already looking at porn? Sorry, but none of it makes any sense to me.

That's a good point about the AM thing. Why would he have set it up long ago when he wasn't looking for something serious? The whole point of AM is for married people to hook up, right?

Cookie Pusher · February 2015

Actually, from reading articles about AM, there are options for non-married people as well. You can identify yourself as married (gender) seeking (gender) or just (gender) seeking (gender). I could imagine someone not looking for something serious to mistakenly think having an affair with someone who is married to have less potential for emotional complications.

SJM7538 · February 2015

@Cookie Pusher‌ is right there are options for single people. so when I went home on my lunch break I made H sign Into the AM account in front if me. he did no questions asked. there were no messages to or from anyone. a few request to look at pics. but no messages. and I checked before hand and he hadnt logged into the account since before our talk. so I know at least he didnt sign in after last night and go delete everything. so I suppose that's a step in the right direction. I'm leaving work soon and contemplating making him ca the customer service number on speaker phone and having them confirm exactly when the account was set up.

I know this looks bad and it's going to take a lot of work and faith but I don't think H is a scumbag Cheater. I do think he is emotionally dysfunctional in some ways and needs help with that.

Inkdancer · February 2015

Girl, I am sending all kinds of prayer and emotional support your way. This is going to be really tough to get through, even with being totally honest and transparent. I hope you can find happiness and peace.

novella1186 · February 2015

All you can do is take it one step at a time. I think it's good that you are confronting him a little further about the details and not just keeping it bottled up. The more open you two can be with each other, the better this process will go, I think. So many hugs to you.

Just remember we're here anytime you need some support.

maeday2 · February 2015

I would definitely have him call, if nothing more for your own peace of mind. Validating that he didn't lie would be a good step.

You know him and your marriage better than anyone else, so do what feels right.

Again, I hope for the best outcome.

photokitty · February 2015

SJM7538 said:

@Cookie Pusher‌ is right there are options for single people. so when I went home on my lunch break I made H sign Into the AM account in front if me. he did no questions asked. there were no messages to or from anyone. a few request to look at pics. but no messages. and I checked before hand and he hadnt logged into the account since before our talk. so I know at least he didnt sign in after last night and go delete everything. so I suppose that's a step in the right direction. I'm leaving work soon and contemplating making him ca the customer service number on speaker phone and having them confirm exactly when the account was set up. I know this looks bad and it's going to take a lot of work and faith but I don't think H is a scumbag Cheater. I do think he is emotionally dysfunctional in some ways and needs help with that.

I'd bet my sweet ass that a company as deplorable as Ashley Madison has a procedure for that and won't give that info out over the phone. I also think you have to pay to delete your account, not sure how much, but you might want to be prepared for that. Of course there's nothing to stop him from setting up a new account or continuing the Craigslist browsing.

I don't know how you trust him again, I don't think I could. I said it before to you, and I'll say it again - life is too short to be unhappy. Divorce is hard, but it's worth it if you can't trust you partner and be happy and safe in your marriage. Best of luck!!!

SJM7538 · February 2015

so here is the 2nd update I suppose. i came home and told H I still had concerns. I told him that I can't handle be lied to an he had but one chance to come clean if there was anything else he needed to tell me. I asked him again when the AM profile was made. he stuck to his story and said before we were together... but that he had reactivited it a couple of months ago when we were deep into or marital and communication issues. so again I made him sign in and watched him delete the account. we just talked for about two hours straight. I told him that in addition to couples counseling I am going to therapy alone. I need to see if this is something I can get past. I told him that it's going to take a long time him to get my trust back and this is a one time Chance. he slips up that's it. also, I told him that I am not going to go looking for stuff moving forward. I will literally drive myself crazy I think it I'm constantly checking his shit. so... our agreement was full disclosure going forward. all passwords for phones, email, FB are known. I told him I need to know that if I come home from work on a random tuesday and say hand me your phone, the expectation is that you will hand me your phone. and he gets the same deal. I really need some wine right now.

Dreamergirl8812 · February 2015

First,

Second,
Please go get tested for STDs and require your H do the same. He needs to present the results to you in writing. And tell the doc you may have been exposed, and that they need to do the full STD panel (apparently they don't do this routinely).

Third,
Like you have already said, full transparency. Tell him that he can come clean during your first counseling session but if you find out he left anything out, you will file for divorce.

And please keep us posted. We are here for you.

ETA: Are you eating and drinking enough water?

esstee33 · February 2015

SJM7538 said:

so here is the 2nd update I suppose. i came home and told H I still had concerns. I told him that I can't handle be lied to an he had but one chance to come clean if there was anything else he needed to tell me. I asked him again when the AM profile was made. he stuck to his story and said before we were together... but that he had reactivited it a couple of months ago when we were deep into or marital and communication issues. so again I made him sign in and watched him delete the account. we just talked for about two hours straight. I told him that in addition to couples counseling I am going to therapy alone. I need to see if this is something I can get past. I told him that it's going to take a long time him to get my trust back and this is a one time Chance. he slips up that's it. also, I told him that I am not going to go looking for stuff moving forward. I will literally drive myself crazy I think it I'm constantly checking his shit. so... our agreement was full disclosure going forward. all passwords for phones, email, FB are known. I told him I need to know that if I come home from work on a random tuesday and say hand me your phone, the expectation is that you will hand me your phone. and he gets the same deal. I really need some wine right now.

Oh, man. All the hugs. I've been in your situation a couple times, with very different outcome -- the first time divorce, the second time working things out and learning to trust again. It's not easy to stay and to allow the person who broke your trust and hurt you so deeply that same level of access to your heart. Therapy will help -- at least you, if not your marriage.

I genuinely hope your H realizes that this isn't going to be an easy fix, and that it's on him to fix it, not you. The big difference between my first and second rodeos was exactly that -- the first partner was always asking why I wasn't over it yet (hint: because he never stopped lying and trying to fuck other people) and guilting me for not trusting him after the time he thought I should have just been over it and trusted him totally. It doesn't work like that. Don't rush yourself or let him rush you to work through this. Healing takes time.

The bolded is deeply, deeply concerning to me. He's admitting the truth in stages: first it was that he started it before he met you -- conveniently forgetting to mention that he reactivated it when you were having troubles. What else is he leaving out?

ashley8918 · February 2015

esstee33 said:

SJM7538 said:

so here is the 2nd update I suppose. i came home and told H I still had concerns. I told him that I can't handle be lied to an he had but one chance to come clean if there was anything else he needed to tell me. I asked him again when the AM profile was made. he stuck to his story and said before we were together... but that he had reactivited it a couple of months ago when we were deep into or marital and communication issues. so again I made him sign in and watched him delete the account. we just talked for about two hours straight. I told him that in addition to couples counseling I am going to therapy alone. I need to see if this is something I can get past. I told him that it's going to take a long time him to get my trust back and this is a one time Chance. he slips up that's it. also, I told him that I am not going to go looking for stuff moving forward. I will literally drive myself crazy I think it I'm constantly checking his shit. so... our agreement was full disclosure going forward. all passwords for phones, email, FB are known. I told him I need to know that if I come home from work on a random tuesday and say hand me your phone, the expectation is that you will hand me your phone. and he gets the same deal. I really need some wine right now.

Oh, man. All the hugs. I've been in your situation a couple times, with very different outcome -- the first time divorce, the second time working things out and learning to trust again. It's not easy to stay and to allow the person who broke your trust and hurt you so deeply that same level of access to your heart. Therapy will help -- at least you, if not your marriage.

I genuinely hope your H realizes that this isn't going to be an easy fix, and that it's on him to fix it, not you. The big difference between my first and second rodeos was exactly that -- the first partner was always asking why I wasn't over it yet (hint: because he never stopped lying and trying to fuck other people) and guilting me for not trusting him after the time he thought I should have just been over it and trusted him totally. It doesn't work like that. Don't rush yourself or let him rush you to work through this. Healing takes time.

The bolded is deeply, deeply concerning to me. He's admitting the truth in stages: first it was that he started it before he met you -- conveniently forgetting to mention that he reactivated it when you were having troubles. What else is he leaving out?

100% agree with the bolded. I am really worried for you.

themosthappy91 · February 2015

I know I already said this and someone else reiterated but just in case you've overlooked it in the course of all the replies you've gotten- PLEASE get a full STD work-up for both of you. That should be an absolute requirement of him on top of counseling.

Update the talk happened. I need some serious advice from strangers.

Re: Update the talk happened. I need some serious advice from strangers.

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