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Invites and Paper

Invitation timing?

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Re: Invitation timing?

  • mlg78mlg78 member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited March 2015
    hcole1 said:


    Seriously?  And I'm the one with bad etiquette around here, huh?
    She's just stating the facts, dear.


  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited March 2015
    My DH is a chef.  I just showed him this post.

    He said "the caterer is robbing her.  No caterer needs full payment and hard numbers 2 months out. Well not a good one that is. A caterer who needs full payment that far out must be having money issues.   Hard numbers, yeah, that is their way to get more money from you because everyone knows people back out at the last minute.  2 months out she is almost  guaranteed to by paying for more meals then will be eaten "


    This is a chef who has worked in various states and islands.  He has worked at small caterers and with large hotel chains.  He has worked in locations that food shipments must be flown in and only come 1-2 times a week.    He knows his shit.


    As far as OOT arrangements.  Yeah, 2 weeks ago we bought our tickets to go visit our family in 3 weeks.  We are very much last minute planners.   Even with weddings.

    Our wedding was 100% OOT.   Even for us.  Our RSVP date was 10 days out.  Hard numbers to the caterer was 3 days out.  No I did not devote my entire life to my wedding.   It's not hard to collect RSVPs. Sure we had some calling for some people after the RSVP deadline, but nothing we couldn't handle.



    ETA - I should add I had to rent EVERYTHING.  As an OOT bride.  Not one member of my family was local. Not one.

      Chairs, generators, forks, salt and pepper shakers. You name it I had to rent it.   Even the fucking bathrooms.  I still did not need firm numbers 3 months out.  That is down right ridiculous.

    3 months out we told the company how many we were inviting.   2-3 weeks we gave them our soft numbers.  I.e. we told them how many had responded, how many were yes and they figured out how many from those who were left would be the max we would have.  Then a week out we gave them "hard" numbers.   

    FWIW - DH and I both work many events. Based on work experience is another reason why it's just ridiculous.   






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    esstee33MGP[Deleted User]
  • One time, I got. Wedding invitation in July for an OOT November wedding (4 months out). They asked for RSVP by the end of August. Everyone invited was super annoyed with the B&G for it.

    We considered telling them we wouldn't be sure until closer to mid October (when RSVPs are supposed to be sent), but didn't want to disrupt their super-special-day so RSVP'd yes. Fast forward to mid-Sept and my favorite aunt and uncle from across the country make plans to visit my parents...the weekend of this wedding.

    We considered canceling because we never get to see them and they're getting old - one of those not-sure-how-many-more-times-we'll-see-you kind of things. We would have RSVP'd No if the B&G had been appropriate about their timeline. But we felt rude changing our RSVP (even though they were the rude ones for making us commit so far in advance). My uncle died that December. I'm still bitter toward them.
    *********************************************************************************

    image
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited March 2015

    Where did you see this? I copied and pasted the 'Start Early' article from TKs invitation etiquette section.

    hcole1 said:

    So I just checked The Knot's wedding planning checklist which says "Get them out by the three-month mark."  (my emphasis on the "by")  Why would they instruct you to send at least 12 weeks out if it's such bad etiquette?



    Start Early

    Your save-the-dates should go out six to eight months before the wedding. It can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks -- or longer, depending on how fancy you go -- to print them. While your save-the-dates don't have to match your invites, ordering everything from one stationer can save you money and make the invitation process easier on you. So start scouting stationers 9 to 11 months before the wedding. Aim to order your invitations about four to five months out so they're ready to mail six to eight weeks before the wedding. If you're having a destination wedding or marrying over the holidays, send out your invites even earlier (10 to 12 weeks before the wedding).

                       
  • hcole1hcole1 member
    Second Anniversary 10 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2015
    @MairePoppy - it is in the Ultimate Wedding Checklist in my planning tools - here's a screenshot.

    edit: I'm not sure why the entire picture isn't showing, but it says "Mail your invites!" followed by "Get them out by the three-month mark. If you don't want the post office to  add a giant stamp across the front of the envelope, you can ask to have them hand-canceled."


  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited March 2015
    hcole1 said:

    Stuck in the box

    As you can see, TK info is sometimes contradictory. They're downloading some changes to the website tonight. The note I see on the new planner says to mail the invitations out by the two month mark.

    Not sure what the planner you've been using looks like, but there are also other items on this planner  such as 'sign up for dance lessons' and 'buy signage for your getaway car.' This isn't etiquette advice. They are promoting the wedding industry and advertisers. KWIM?


                       
  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's member
    Eighth Anniversary 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 25 Answers
    hcole1 said:

    @Maggie0829 -  I was merely answering the previous poster's question regarding what I would do in that situation if I do decide to send them out four months prior to the wedding date.  


    I felt like the rationale behind sending them 6-8 weeks out is just because that's what you're "supposed" to do but I didn't see the reasoning behind that, so that's why I asked.  There's a ton of wedding stuff that people do (and waste money and time on) just because they think you're "supposed" to, but I'd like there to be a good reason behind it (other than a couple of Miss Manners wanna-be's on the internet told me to do something a certain way).  I guess I'm still waiting on those good reasons...
    We did give you good reasons.  You just don't like the answers.

    MairePoppy
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its

    hcole1 said:

    @Maggie0829 -  I was merely answering the previous poster's question regarding what I would do in that situation if I do decide to send them out four months prior to the wedding date.  


    I felt like the rationale behind sending them 6-8 weeks out is just because that's what you're "supposed" to do but I didn't see the reasoning behind that, so that's why I asked.  There's a ton of wedding stuff that people do (and waste money and time on) just because they think you're "supposed" to, but I'd like there to be a good reason behind it (other than a couple of Miss Manners wanna-be's on the internet told me to do something a certain way).  I guess I'm still waiting on those good reasons...
    We did give you good reasons.  You just don't like the answers.
    Those who make plans early will do so anyway. Most people communicate with their VIPs about the date and such anyway.   

    Those who are like us who can't commit to something 3 months out have the stress of trying to figure out what to do?   We would like to come, but our jobs do not allow us to plan that far out.  So you are basically putting undo stress on your guests and somewhat on yourself.

    There is NOTHING wrong with calling up your VIPs and tell them your date.  Then send out invites up to 10-12 weeks out (still early, but not horrible for an OOT wedding).   Then make RSVPs as close as you can to the event.

    Random stuff -- Experts say that airline prices are the best 54 days out.  Which is less then 2 months.   Even with when my DH's sister got married and we KNEW we were going to the wedding 18 months out we didn't buy our tickets until under 2 months out.     We need a hotel for April 8th.  I still haven't booked the room yet.

    I work for 2 guest houses in New Orleans.  Most of our reservations are made under 90 days out.  More than half of those are made under 30 days out.   Last night I released 3 rooms for NOLA's jazz fest, which is in 5 weeks.  Over $300 a night.  All 3 rooms were booked, last night.   2 of those reservations were from people from overseas.        Sure there are people who book far out, but I think you would be surprised at how many people actually make "last" minute bookings.


    Story time - DH's friend sent us an invite to his Dec 1 wedding in Aug.  They had an Oct 1 due date.  2 months out.    Their reception was at a national hotel company that DH happen to work for in a different city.   They company wide standard for hard numbers is 72 hours out.   So why they needed the hard numbers 2 months out is beyond us.

    Against our better judgement we sent in saying yes. We figured it was better to say yes and then cancel if we had to then call and say we can now come.

    2 weeks later DH lost his job.   We could not longer afford to attend the OOT wedding.   We contacted the couple immediately, so 6 weeks before the wedding.  The bride was fucking PISSED at us.  Which was ridiculous because had they had a reasonable RSVP date we would have been able to RSVP more accurately.    Their unreasonable RSVP date was the problem.

    Later found out 3 other couples cancelled between 4-8 weeks out also.

    Point is life throws people curves all the time.  People in general are able to make commitments within a few weeks out from an event than a few months out.   That however, does not mean people who have the ability to commit farther out can not book flights, hotels, ask for vacation, etc.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    Maggie0829MairePoppyCookie Pusherbanana468
  • I mean, I am a broken record of what others have said. Sending invites three months out and expecting RSVPs two months out is too soon on both fronts and does set you up for problems and people backing out. 

    Our caterer needs hard numbers 10 days out. I'm not sure I would book a caterer who needed hard number more than 2 weeks out. 
    image
  • MGPMGP member
    Knottie Warrior 500 Love Its 500 Comments Name Dropper
    edited March 2015
    hcole1 said:

    ETA: If you demand RSVPs 3 months out and have paid in full, I guarantee that you will end up paying for MANY meals that are not eaten. No-shows and late RSVP changes are a reality of weddings; if you pay in full based on the numbers 3 months out, be prepared to swallow a lot of lost money that could have been spent on an upgraded bar, additional appetizers, more décor, etc.  I've budgeted for 100% attendance for the food costs and have all other areas covered already so this isn't an issue for me.




    So you are ok with throwing away money if you end up having less than 100% attendance than the number you have to give to your crazy caterer months out? There is no reason you need to pay in full that far in advance. No. Reason. What if they take your money and don't show up on the big day?

    Just think about this logically for a minute. Ever hear the expression "your lack of planning is not my emergency?" Your caterer's back asswards way of planning should not force your guests to make an RSVP decision months in advance. If you told me thats why you needed an answer so early I would tell you that's not my problem and to quit bugging me. And ultimately it poorly reflects on you the most. People will forget about the caterer. They will remember you as "that crazy bitch that demanded an answer 90 days out".
    Maggie0829[Deleted User]
  • JoanE2012JoanE2012 Exit 21 (Jersey!) member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    hcole1 said:

    @redoryx - If someone were to RSVP yes and then later say they couldn't make it, not much I can do there except express my regrets.  If someone RSVP's no and then later says their plans changed and now they can make it, it would depend.  If I've already provided the final numbers to the caterer and no one who said yes has changed that to a no, I'd have to say sorry, but we've already had to provide final numbers.  I'd call them up if someone cancelled after the fact and opened up a spot so to speak.  If they change their RSVP before I've provided the numbers to the caterer, then no problem, I'd add them to the list.


    I have a hard time believing that your caterer would turn down extra people (read: money) if you added additional people after the caterer's deadline.  She's not ordering food 8 weeks in advance (unless you're having frozen meals!), what's the big deal to add people and send payment for them up until a couple weeks before the wedding?  Have you even asked her that?  What's her reasoning?  

    I agree with lynda, sounds like she's having money problems.  I'd be very concerned.  There is no other logical explanation for her to need a hard number of guests 2 months before with payment.  

  • JoanE2012JoanE2012 Exit 21 (Jersey!) member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    hcole1 said:

    hcole1 said:


    ETA: If you demand RSVPs 3 months out and have paid in full, I guarantee that you will end up paying for MANY meals that are not eaten. No-shows and late RSVP changes are a reality of weddings; if you pay in full based on the numbers 3 months out, be prepared to swallow a lot of lost money that could have been spent on an upgraded bar, additional appetizers, more décor, etc.  I've budgeted for 100% attendance for the food costs and have all other areas covered already so this isn't an issue for me.


    So if the money isn't an issue, why don't you just tell the caterer at their 2 month deadline that everyone is coming.  Send out the invites at the 8 week point with an RSVP date about 2 weeks before.  If less people come, you eat the money.  You said it wasn't an issue.   Why are you making it one?
    Maggie0829[Deleted User]justsie
  • JoanE2012 said:

    hcole1 said:

    hcole1 said:


    ETA: If you demand RSVPs 3 months out and have paid in full, I guarantee that you will end up paying for MANY meals that are not eaten. No-shows and late RSVP changes are a reality of weddings; if you pay in full based on the numbers 3 months out, be prepared to swallow a lot of lost money that could have been spent on an upgraded bar, additional appetizers, more décor, etc.  I've budgeted for 100% attendance for the food costs and have all other areas covered already so this isn't an issue for me.


    So if the money isn't an issue, why don't you just tell the caterer at their 2 month deadline that everyone is coming.  Send out the invites at the 8 week point with an RSVP date about 2 weeks before.  If less people come, you eat the money.  You said it wasn't an issue.   Why are you making it one?
    Yes!  This, this!  Do this!
  • adk19 said:

    JoanE2012 said:

    hcole1 said:

    hcole1 said:


    ETA: If you demand RSVPs 3 months out and have paid in full, I guarantee that you will end up paying for MANY meals that are not eaten. No-shows and late RSVP changes are a reality of weddings; if you pay in full based on the numbers 3 months out, be prepared to swallow a lot of lost money that could have been spent on an upgraded bar, additional appetizers, more décor, etc.  I've budgeted for 100% attendance for the food costs and have all other areas covered already so this isn't an issue for me.


    So if the money isn't an issue, why don't you just tell the caterer at their 2 month deadline that everyone is coming.  Send out the invites at the 8 week point with an RSVP date about 2 weeks before.  If less people come, you eat the money.  You said it wasn't an issue.   Why are you making it one?
    Yes!  This, this!  Do this!
    I third this as well. If money isn't an issue just quote 100% attendance so your guests can be hosted properly and do not have added stress put on them with your wedding plans. 
    image
  • LondonLisaLondonLisa London, UK member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers

    I see it the other way - we just received an invite to a wedding six weeks out and our flights were over $500 a piece to make the trip.  We got a STD but I've had an experience where I received the STD and wasn't invited to the wedding - after losing $350 on that flight, I don't consider those a guarantee anymore.  Not everyone understands the etiquette. 


    When everyone's out of town, I think it's best to send invites early so OOT folks can make reasonable flight/travel arrangements and have a long RSVP window so other folks can wait to commit if they need to.   

    Our wedding in early June is 100% OOT.  We sent invites 12 weeks out and our reply date is 6 weeks out.  We've had about half RSVP already with folks appreciative of time to make travel.  

    We've also been invited to a wedding three weeks after ours in June.  It's largely local and we received that invite the week before we sent ours out.  

    People who want to come will come.  People who don't or can't, won't.  I don't think either side needs to hold grudges about it - these are supposed to be your closest friends and family.  OP - do whatever works for you. 
    Just because you know some jerks who uninvited you doesn't mean it is fair to turn around and be a jerk to other people.

    12 weeks is the absolute maximum I would say you could send an invitation for. 8-10 is preferable. RSVP rate of 2 months beforehand is ridiculous. 

    OP, why are you so incredulous about talking to your caterer? If anything, that is a huge red flag about their business, as other posters have mentioned.
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