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So. Keep my mouth shut? Be discrete? Or turtles?

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Re: So. Keep my mouth shut? Be discrete? Or turtles?

  • question: are there other immunocompromised guests attending the wedding? Yeah the twins are a massive issue, but what about everyone else?

    I would call antivaxx mom ASAP and explain that because several of your guests are immunocompromised, she has the choice to stay in the hotel with her child, or she can attend without her child. This isn't about her son, or you singling her out, you need to think about the safety of your guests. I also think that you should inform the twins mother about the non vaccinated child, and do it ASAP.

    I think you are smart to think about this kind of shit, most guests wouldn't. I hope that the antivaxx mom will understand your concern for the other guests. Deliver the news and get your drink on.
  • ashley8918ashley8918 Chicago Suburbs member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited April 2015
    larrygaga said:

    Blergbot said:

    Blergbot said:

    OP, this, fortunately, is not a hill you need to die on. Infants have passive immunity, passed through the placenta, and for measels, that immunity lasts for one year. The babies will be fine as long as their mother was vaccinated. That lady is still crazy, but I think you can let this one go.

    Um, no. What if those babies or someone else at the wedding is otherwise immunocompromised? Not a risk worth taking, ever. Anti-vaxxers, as the bad decision makers, are the ones who need to deal with the consequences. Not the people doing the right thing.



    If someone attending the wedding is immunocompromised and was unable to receive the MMR vaccine, then, of course, that is a good point. But OP seems fairly certain all other children were vaccinated. Of course the onus is on the crazy anti-vaxxer lady. It just doesn't seem necessary in this case. But there may be some risk to someone, it's true. Just as much risk as in the general population.
    I believe she said there would be a few kids too young for vaccines there? mebbe
    Yes, exactly. And passive immunity is not permanent. It lasts only a few weeks to a few months at most. There is absolutely NO telling if these 2-month-old babies are still temporarily immune and that's not a risk anyone should be taking just because some fuck knuckle decided that her children should be ticking time bombs of disease.

    ETA I didn't even notice that she said that passive immunity lasts for a year. Definitely not.
    JaniV123onefootinthebayoularrygagaLadyMillil
  • Ugh. Hell no! The passive immunity argument is incorrect as was pointed out above.
    Antivaxxers are the absolute worst! I'd break whatever Etiquette rules need to be broken to keep that kid out of my wedding. 
    - The stars, like dust, encircle me in living mists of light. And all of space I seem to see in one vast burst of sight. 
    ashley8918themuffinman16LadyMillil
  • It's been a while since my kids were little, but, if I remember correctly, their first series of shots began at 6 weeks. I think that included the MMR but I could be wrong.
  • JaniV123 said:

    MY thoughts on this anti vaxxing issue: http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/how-anti-vaxxers-sound-normal-people-0


    and I would talk to both moms and hope the unvaxed kid is left at the hotel or something
    OMG. I am dying of laughter, especially about the guy who could be the 1% of the population that is allergic to condoms, and his girlfriend shouldn't be so selfish. Lol
    ashley8918
  • sophhabobophasophhabobopha The Midwestern tundra member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    "Keep your gross, comprimised child out of my wedding."

    Kidding, 
    kinda.
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    themuffinman16ashley8918
  • edited April 2015
    This problem never occurred to me, about antivaxers.  My older sister (the jerk) does not have her children vaccinated.  Her husband is a photographer and spends at least two days a week at international airports. I don't get how someone could be that negligent with their own children, and how it is legal? There are certain amount of incidents where seatbelts have killed people, but we still have seatbelt laws because they do more good than they harm.  
       Anyway, my step-mom invited all of the grandchildren to her house, last year (that was extremely awkward).   And now I think about it and realize my older sister's children could put my other nieces and nephews at risk. If I ever have children, they will never be around my sister's children, and I have no problem stating why.  If someone wants his/her children to go to public school, he/she has to vaccinate them.  Likewise, the general population should chose if they want their children being exposed to kids who could potentially make theirs really sick.  Etiquette be damned, in this instance.  Forget that, it IS proper etiquette... to the rest of your guests who are responsible parents.
  • Because you are on such short time before your wedding, I would cautiously warn all the parents with young children that there will be a child who is unvaccinated and has been exposed to an outbreak and let them decide. Also, beer, with a tequila chaser.

    I'm not getting involved in the vaccinated/unvaccinated debate. My son is vaccinated. He was on schedule to the day except for 1 because I didn't want him to have 3 shots in 1 day.
    southernbelle0915
  • larrygaga said:

    Blergbot said:

    Blergbot said:

    OP, this, fortunately, is not a hill you need to die on. Infants have passive immunity, passed through the placenta, and for measels, that immunity lasts for one year. The babies will be fine as long as their mother was vaccinated. That lady is still crazy, but I think you can let this one go.

    Um, no. What if those babies or someone else at the wedding is otherwise immunocompromised? Not a risk worth taking, ever. Anti-vaxxers, as the bad decision makers, are the ones who need to deal with the consequences. Not the people doing the right thing.



    If someone attending the wedding is immunocompromised and was unable to receive the MMR vaccine, then, of course, that is a good point. But OP seems fairly certain all other children were vaccinated. Of course the onus is on the crazy anti-vaxxer lady. It just doesn't seem necessary in this case. But there may be some risk to someone, it's true. Just as much risk as in the general population.
    I believe she said there would be a few kids too young for vaccines there? mebbe
    Yes, exactly. And passive immunity is not permanent. It lasts only a few weeks to a few months at most. There is absolutely NO telling if these 2-month-old babies are still temporarily immune and that's not a risk anyone should be taking just because some fuck knuckle decided that her children should be ticking time bombs of disease.

    ETA I didn't even notice that she said that passive immunity lasts for a year. Definitely not.
    To build on this, I'm a microbiologist with heavy virology background.  PPs have covered anything I can say from an academic standpoint but here's a personal note.  When I was a baby (a few months old, too young to be vaccinated), I was POSSIBLY exposed to measles.  I believe having an unvaccinated child in an area of an outbreak constitutes possible exposure, in your case here.  My mother immediately contacted my pediatrician, who had to special order IgG for me from the CDC, which was administered immediately. Granted, this was in the late 70s but just to give you an idea of how extremely serious the risk is (sounds like you already know).

    I realize you're 4 days out.  I would explain your position to the anti-vaxxer mom (I can't even) and inform the mother of the two unvaccinated children.  Your concern is warranted and all you can do at this point is provide the mother of the babies too young to be immunized about the potential risk.

    I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this so close.  Do not beat yourself up over not thinking of this before.  That mother's poor choices, ignorance, and willful disregard for science have put you in this position.  All you can do now is communicate clearly to both parties your concerns.  Be direct.  A PP pointed out, this woman must be held accountable for her irresponsibility and if that is to be on the receiving end of a potential etiquette breach by you uninviting her child, so be it. Best of luck, I hope this gets resolved and that you have a wonderful wedding.    
    ashley8918sarahufl
  • Passive immunity builds during the baby's last 3 months in utero. If the twins were preterm like many are, they didn't have time to reap the full benefits. You can't assume they'll have the maximum protection.

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    ashley8918FiancBRebeccaB88
  • mikenbergermikenberger In a f'n cornfield member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    Thanks y'all :) I'll report back anything that happens... so far:


    Nothing.

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  • Thanks y'all :) I'll report back anything that happens... so far:



    Nothing.
    NOT EVEN BEER? Tell us about the beer.

    Seriously I haven't had a beer since New Year's Eve. It's like erotica to me.

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    ashley8918swiftsticksthemuffinman16lc07
  • cupcait927cupcait927 Western NY wine country member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer

    Thanks y'all :) I'll report back anything that happens... so far:



    Nothing.
    NOT EVEN BEER? Tell us about the beer.

    Seriously I haven't had a beer since New Year's Eve. It's like erotica to me.
    No, shockingly, I did not drink last night. I tasted a beer we made for the reception, but that's it :(

    The beers we've brewed for our wedding: session IPA, RIS (russian imperial stout) barrel aged in a jack daniels barrel, german wheat, blonde, hard cider and our wedding beer is a sour brown (oud brun) aged with the wine we got when we got engaged. Awwwww. Squee. 

    I fucking love beer. I plan on destroying beer tonight. And tomorrow. And Thursday. Switching to vodka for Friday AM.
    Everyone's got the vaccination stuff covered. I will take one session IPA and one russian imperial stout because yum.
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    ashley8918theartistformerlyknownasthespeshulestsnowflakemadamerwin
  • This question came up hypothetically during a conversation and the response from an antivaxer was:  'Well do you know the vaccine status of everyone at your wedding?  Where everyone has been in the last month and whether or not they've been out of country and had the necessary quarantine periods?  If not, then you're signalling out my kids and that's not fair.'  

    I was dumbfounded by her reasoning as her questions were reasons as to why her kids SHOULD have vaccines, but whatever.    She posed another good question though - you specifically know that her kid is unvaccinated but do you know that all of your other guests are vaccinated?  Are you willing to ask?   If not, then you are singling out the one child and family. 

    If the mom of the twins takes her kids out of the house, to the store, to the doctors office, etc, she's risking them coming in contact with un-vaccinated people all the time.   We had some un-vaccinated kids at our wedding and everyone who had other children were aware of it, because the mom is vocal about it.   As my brother, who had a 4 year old and 10 month old there stated 'I can protect my kids as much as possible by getting them vaccinated, but I refuse to isolate them because of other's stupidity.'     Let the parents of other children, specifically the twins know, and let them make the decision.   Because ultimately it's their children and their decision.



  • I might even buy the "you're singling out my child argument" except in this situation, the child is in a KNOWN area of exposure.   That's much different than, "Your unvaccinated child went to the CVS this morning!" 
  • lovegood90lovegood90 Ontario member
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper

    Agree with PPs that you should not feel bad about offending crazy anti-vax parents (is she a single mom? Or are both parents anti-vaxxers? Where's the dad in this basically).

    However, regardless of what you decide to do, the parents of the other two children should absolutely get a warning about this unvaccinated kid.

    Formerly martha1818

    image


    ashley8918theartistformerlyknownasthemuffinman16
  • mikenbergermikenberger In a f'n cornfield member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer

    Agree with PPs that you should not feel bad about offending crazy anti-vax parents (is she a single mom? Or are both parents anti-vaxxers? Where's the dad in this basically).

    However, regardless of what you decide to do, the parents of the other two children should absolutely get a warning about this unvaccinated kid.

    Dad is not in the picture. He is not allowed access to his child. I know she's working on getting his rights terminated on the basis that the father is/was abusive to the mother before and during pregnancy. 

    I sent a message to the mother of the twins, just giving her a heads up. So far, no response. I just hate that I have to do this. Fucking stupid. Just vaccinate your kids. ESPECIALLY MMR and polio. Like wtf. Why is this even an option?

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    momofbride530
  • LakeR2014 said:

    This question came up hypothetically during a conversation and the response from an antivaxer was:  'Well do you know the vaccine status of everyone at your wedding?  Where everyone has been in the last month and whether or not they've been out of country and had the necessary quarantine periods?  If not, then you're signalling out my kids and that's not fair.'  

    I was dumbfounded by her reasoning as her questions were reasons as to why her kids SHOULD have vaccines, but whatever.    She posed another good question though - you specifically know that her kid is unvaccinated but do you know that all of your other guests are vaccinated?  Are you willing to ask?   If not, then you are singling out the one child and family. 

    If the mom of the twins takes her kids out of the house, to the store, to the doctors office, etc, she's risking them coming in contact with un-vaccinated people all the time.   We had some un-vaccinated kids at our wedding and everyone who had other children were aware of it, because the mom is vocal about it.   As my brother, who had a 4 year old and 10 month old there stated 'I can protect my kids as much as possible by getting them vaccinated, but I refuse to isolate them because of other's stupidity.'     Let the parents of other children, specifically the twins know, and let them make the decision.   Because ultimately it's their children and their decision.



    No, she is not "singling out" that child. He (she?) poses a KNOWN risk to those babies (and to fucking everyone). The argument that a known risk should be ignored because there MIGHT be unknown risks is stupid logic.

    Let's say that Johnny has decided that he is going to kill the president. The Whatevergovernmentagency has become aware of this. Should they not eliminate this risk (by stopping him/arresting him/whatever) just because there are maybe, and very probably, other people dead set on icing the president?

    It's a complete logical fallacy.
    Your argument is way off base.  Seriously?  You're equating a known, definite threat to the possibility of a threat?   I understand your argument, but the above example is taking it to a high extreme.

    As to known - it's not a known risk.  She poses a possible risk.  Does the OP know that the unvaccinated child was in the area where exposure happened?  Or is she going off of a news report she read from the area?  Is the possible risk area the size of a city block or the state of California?  How close was the child to the exposed area?

    My point above was that the child is unvaccinated, yes, and may have a possible risk.  But unless the OP knows the medical history and whereabouts of all of their guests they cannot fully protect the twins, she can just inform and allow the parents of the twins to make their own decision.

    For the record, I'm all for vaccines and think those opposed to them are on their own personal high-horse, belong in a loony bin, or are out to get attention.


  • ashley8918ashley8918 Chicago Suburbs member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer

    Agree with PPs that you should not feel bad about offending crazy anti-vax parents (is she a single mom? Or are both parents anti-vaxxers? Where's the dad in this basically).

    However, regardless of what you decide to do, the parents of the other two children should absolutely get a warning about this unvaccinated kid.

    Dad is not in the picture. He is not allowed access to his child. I know she's working on getting his rights terminated on the basis that the father is/was abusive to the mother before and during pregnancy. 

    I sent a message to the mother of the twins, just giving her a heads up. So far, no response. I just hate that I have to do this. Fucking stupid. Just vaccinate your kids. ESPECIALLY MMR and polio. Like wtf. Why is this even an option?
    Ugh, this whole situation sucks and I'm sorry that you have to deal with it.

    Also, it's unfortunate but don't be surprised if the mom of the twins decides not to attend your wedding if little Johnny Germ will for sure be there.
  • emmaaaemmaaa North Carolina mod
    Moderator 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary
    I may be completely wrong on this but doesn't a vaccine take like 10 days to "work?" So even if she got little Johnny vaccinated yesterday, it'd be too late...

  • mikenbergermikenberger In a f'n cornfield member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited April 2015
    LakeR2014 said:

    LakeR2014 said:

    This question came up hypothetically during a conversation and the response from an antivaxer was:  'Well do you know the vaccine status of everyone at your wedding?  Where everyone has been in the last month and whether or not they've been out of country and had the necessary quarantine periods?  If not, then you're signalling out my kids and that's not fair.'  

    I was dumbfounded by her reasoning as her questions were reasons as to why her kids SHOULD have vaccines, but whatever.    She posed another good question though - you specifically know that her kid is unvaccinated but do you know that all of your other guests are vaccinated?  Are you willing to ask?   If not, then you are singling out the one child and family. 

    If the mom of the twins takes her kids out of the house, to the store, to the doctors office, etc, she's risking them coming in contact with un-vaccinated people all the time.   We had some un-vaccinated kids at our wedding and everyone who had other children were aware of it, because the mom is vocal about it.   As my brother, who had a 4 year old and 10 month old there stated 'I can protect my kids as much as possible by getting them vaccinated, but I refuse to isolate them because of other's stupidity.'     Let the parents of other children, specifically the twins know, and let them make the decision.   Because ultimately it's their children and their decision.



    No, she is not "singling out" that child. He (she?) poses a KNOWN risk to those babies (and to fucking everyone). The argument that a known risk should be ignored because there MIGHT be unknown risks is stupid logic.

    Let's say that Johnny has decided that he is going to kill the president. The Whatevergovernmentagency has become aware of this. Should they not eliminate this risk (by stopping him/arresting him/whatever) just because there are maybe, and very probably, other people dead set on icing the president?

    It's a complete logical fallacy.
    Your argument is way off base.  Seriously?  You're equating a known, definite threat to the possibility of a threat?   I understand your argument, but the above example is taking it to a high extreme.

    As to known - it's not a known risk.  She poses a possible risk.  Does the OP know that the unvaccinated child was in the area where exposure happened?  Or is she going off of a news report she read from the area?  Is the possible risk area the size of a city block or the state of California?  How close was the child to the exposed area?

    My point above was that the child is unvaccinated, yes, and may have a possible risk.  But unless the OP knows the medical history and whereabouts of all of their guests they cannot fully protect the twins, she can just inform and allow the parents of the twins to make their own decision.

    For the record, I'm all for vaccines and think those opposed to them are on their own personal high-horse, belong in a loony bin, or are out to get attention.


    If you had read my OP I clearly stated:

    The child lives in an area where there is a measles outbreak but is not exhibiting or has come into contact with it to my knowledge. (And the outbreak is not of the same caliber as the recent Disneyland outbreak)

    The mother of the twins will be discussing with her husband how best to proceed. She thanked me for the heads up and appreciated my looking out for her boys. Now I feel like punching the cousin in the face. I can say with a fairly highly degree of certainty that there are no other risks. And the other people will possible poor immune systems or otherwise will not be in attendance because of said poor immune systems and cannot travel.



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