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catholic church woes

JacquelinemakeupArtJacquelinemakeupArt member
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in Wedding Customs & Traditions Forum
My fiance was previously married in jewish religion.. Now we want a catholic ceremony in church.. they are telling us is 12-18 months to wait for anulment? can this be possible? my mom is very upset about not having a church.. help
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Re: catholic church woes

  • OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom member
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    JacquelinemakeupArt said:

    My fiance was previously married in jewish religion.. Now we want a catholic ceremony in church.. they are telling us is 12-18 months to wait for anulment? can this be possible? my mom is very upset about not having a church.. help

    Ditto Lynda.

    Take your mom out of the picture.  What type of ceremony do you and your FI want?  

    Know that if you decide to not wait and have a non-Catholic ceremony you will be out of Communion with the Church and unable to receive Communion.
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
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    edited May 2015
    Yes, it is very possible for you to have a Catholic wedding - following church rules.  This means that you should not set a firm date for your wedding until the annulment comes through.  If having a Catholic wedding is important to you, then wait and follow procedures.
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  • banana468banana468 member
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    Ditto the others. Is having a Catholic ceremony important to you?
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
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    Yes, an annulment is a lengthy process. You shouldn't set a date until the process is complete. It's also not an automatic process. It is possible that the church could deny his annulment request. 

    If you are a practicing catholic, you know why this is important. If you were just planning to get married in the church to make your mom happy, you should rethink that. 
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  • notdoingitbythebooknotdoingitbythebook member
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    The Catholic church is maddening and what the hell is up with mothers demanding church weddings for their children. We had that demand thrown at us, we even went to talk with the (incredibly pompous and full of himself) priest to find out what's involved and if he would be able to come participate in a ceremony at the venue we'd already booked and then we had a big fight about the whole church wedding and who it was really for. In the end mommy dearest lost out on her "you must be married in the church or it won't be legitimate" demand and we're back to where we're supposed to be... and that's not in a church.

    If you want a church wedding then you'll have to wait. But if you're only having it because mommy is demanding it just tell her forget it and do your own thing. The church does not own marriage and it is definitely not the only option.

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  • Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    If marrying in the Catholic Church is important to you, then yes, you have to follow their rules and wait.

    If you're only doing that because your mother is pushing it, tell your mother that while you're not having a Catholic wedding, you are still having a wedding and this is it.

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  • TrixieJessTrixieJess member
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    banana468 said:

    notdoingitbythebook said:

    The Catholic church is maddening and what the hell is up with mothers demanding church weddings for their children. We had that demand thrown at us, we even went to talk with the (incredibly pompous and full of himself) priest to find out what's involved and if he would be able to come participate in a ceremony at the venue we'd already booked and then we had a big fight about the whole church wedding and who it was really for. In the end mommy dearest lost out on her "you must be married in the church or it won't be legitimate" demand and we're back to where we're supposed to be... and that's not in a church.

    If you want a church wedding then you'll have to wait. But if you're only having it because mommy is demanding it just tell her forget it and do your own thing. The church does not own marriage and it is definitely not the only option.

    notdoingitbythebook - I'm sure you've already been informed of this, but for those who don't know: Priests aren't allowed to marry anyone outside of the Catholic church building without special permission from the bishop. If you want to get married in the CC, you should make an appointment with your priest before you make any other plans. 
    There's something about the bolded that I find really off-putting.      That said, if you don't want to be in a Catholic marriage, be a Catholic and raise your kids Catholic then FFS, don't get married in a Catholic church.

    I think a lot of mothers think of this because they hold onto tradition and their own beliefs and hope that their children will have them.   While it isn't true, I think some parents feel like they didn't do something right if their kids opt for a secular ceremony.   Then there are also the moms who just get worked up when something is different than what they're used to. 


    Yep this. I'm far from Catholic although I grew up in it. My parents were not married in the church until I was 6 and we had to be baptised to attend Catholic school (not a requirement anymore). They had a ceremony with them, the priest and my godparents. My brother and I were baptised right after. There are options.
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
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    The Catholic Church has undergone many changes and reforms in the past century.  Before Vatican II in the early 1960's, Catholics were actively discouraged from even dating non-Catholics, much less marrying them.  My uncle had to convert in order to marry in the Catholic church.  My mother never got over the hurt she felt when her Catholic boyfriend in high school told her that the priest had visited his home and told his parents that they couldn't see  each other any more.
    The Catholic church no longer demands that both bride and groom are Catholic.  The priest's meddling would not happen today.  However, many older people remember the old rules.  The Catholic sacrament of Holy Matrimony is more than just a marriage ceremony to observant Catholics.  This is why Catholic parents are so often upset at the thought of their children being married outside the church.  There is also the fact that anyone married outside the church can no longer take communion during the mass.  This is a very big deal for Catholics.
    I agree with others, that you should not be married in the Catholic church if you do not believe or wish to continue religious participation in the Catholic church.  I do think that non-Catholics should cut the parents some slack about their attitude, though.  If you are not familiar with Catholicism, you cannot judge.  This is a very deep religious issue, not just a "Where should I have my wedding?" question.
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  • Jen4948Jen4948 member
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    edited May 2015
    CMGragain said:

    The Catholic Church has undergone many changes and reforms in the past century.  Before Vatican II in the early 1960's, Catholics were actively discouraged from even dating non-Catholics, much less marrying them.  My uncle had to convert in order to marry in the Catholic church.  My mother never got over the hurt she felt when her Catholic boyfriend in high school told her that the priest had visited his home and told his parents that they couldn't see  each other any more.
    The Catholic church no longer demands that both bride and groom are Catholic.  The priest's meddling would not happen today.  However, many older people remember the old rules.  The Catholic sacrament of Holy Matrimony is more than just a marriage ceremony to observant Catholics.  This is why Catholic parents are so often upset at the thought of their children being married outside the church.  There is also the fact that anyone married outside the church can no longer take communion during the mass.  This is a very big deal for Catholics.
    I agree with others, that you should not be married in the Catholic church if you do not believe or wish to continue religious participation in the Catholic church.  I do think that non-Catholics should cut the parents some slack about their attitude, though.  If you are not familiar with Catholicism, you cannot judge.  This is a very deep religious issue, not just a "Where should I have my wedding?" question.

    Although I'm not Catholic, I think any expectations that parents of any religious background who want their child's wedding to be entirely in accordance with their own beliefs when the couple don't share those beliefs goes only so far.

    The parents certainly don't have to pay for or even attend a wedding that isn't in accordance with their own beliefs, but making any kinds of threats or treating the couple as not validly married are out of line. It is just as disrespectful to the Catholic Church or any other religion to insist that nonbelievers, even one's own children, marry in that religion on pain of something as it is for nonbelievers themselves to choose to marry in that religion just to make others, even their own parents, happy.

    When the couple chooses not to marry in that religion, everyone needs to accept that respectfully and just move on. I doubt the Deity/ies want His/Her/Its/Their worship to be used as a weapon within families, despite the fact that it happens.
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  • MairePoppyMairePoppy mod
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    edited May 2015
    Jen4948, I agree 100 per cent that parents shouldn't force this issue with their adult children, but maybe I can shed some light:

    Catholic parents are charged with bringing their children up in the Catholic church and preparing them for all the sacraments, marriage being one of them. My own mother feels like she has failed in this obligation because my brother is atheist and I(once a devout Catholic) don't feel like I can participate in the church  because I don't agree with many of the church's teachings.< Insert here a prayer for Pope Francis, that he may be successful in promoting a more inclusive church> She has come to terms with this, more or less, probably because her priest assured her that she could pray for us and God would understand that she is a good mother. I have found holy medals and prayer cards hidden around my house by my mom. Parents who can't deal with their children's decision to marry outside the church should be urged to talk to their own priest. 
                       
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
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    Speaking of His Holiness, the Pope, I understand he has initiated a move to revise some of the restrictions on Catholic marriage.  We can pray for this, too!
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  • geebee908geebee908 member
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    MyNameIsNot said:

    Yes, an annulment is a lengthy process. You shouldn't set a date until the process is complete. It's also not an automatic process. It is possible that the church could deny his annulment request. 


    If you are a practicing catholic, you know why this is important. If you were just planning to get married in the church to make your mom happy, you should rethink that. 
    Ditto all of this. That 12 to 18 months seems like a pretty optimistic estimate. Everyone involved in the process would have to be cooperative and timely with the paperwork. I knew someone who was engaged for 5 years before her fiance's annulment came through. This was because his ex-wife was uncooperative in the process and it takes a long time to do the go-around on that.
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  • dreamsinpinkdreamsinpink member
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    edited June 2015
    An annulment, more than likely, will not take that long. I was raised catholic, uncle is a priest and getting married in the church. They overestimate so if it does end up taking that long, they don't get angry calls saying you told me it wouldn't take long.
    My sisters husband had to get his first marriage annulled before getting married in the church and took a couple months. Basically, they got engaged in February and married the next January. The process to get married in a Catholic Church is not a short one, even being raised and had gone to school where I am getting married, the process is still about a 3 month process. If getting married in the church is important to you, you will wait. If it's not, then get married elsewhere and later have the marriage blessed by the church. He will still have to get his previous marriage annulled, but then you wouldn't have to wait.

    Edit- also, you can't set a date until you meet with the priest anyways.

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  • primafaba15primafaba15 member
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    dreamsinpink said:
     If getting married in the church is important to you, you will wait. If it's not, then get married elsewhere and later have the marriage blessed by the church. He will still have to get his previous marriage annulled, but then you wouldn't have to wait. 


    I'm far from an expert on Canon law (you might want to run this by the Catholic Weddings board), but OP, I would not do this without consulting with a priest first. It's true that you can receive a convalidation after the fact so that your marriage is recognized by the church but my understanding is that convalidation is not always granted and the reasons do matter. It at least used to be the case that couples are even discouraged from dating until the annulment goes through, so I don't know that not wanting to wait would be enough reason for them to grant convalidation. I would definitely ask. Of course, if having a Catholic marriage isn't that important to you (and it might not be!), then you don't need to worry about that beyond sorting things out with your mother. 
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  • CMGragainCMGragain member
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    Convalidations are not for people who can't wait for the paperwork and counseling sessions.  They are for people who convert to Catholicism, and want to have their marriage recognized as a Holy Sacrament.
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  • TrixieJessTrixieJess member
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    CMGragain said:
    Convalidations are not for people who can't wait for the paperwork and counseling sessions.  They are for people who convert to Catholicism, and want to have their marriage recognized as a Holy Sacrament.
    This isn't entirely true. My grandmother received a covalidation of her marriage after her first husband died. While he was alive he would not sign the paperwork for an annulment and she wanted to get married to her second husband in the Catholic Church (She was 65). 

    However, this is an extreme case and the priest at her church had known her for years. 
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
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    TrixieJess said:
    CMGragain said:
    Convalidations are not for people who can't wait for the paperwork and counseling sessions.  They are for people who convert to Catholicism, and want to have their marriage recognized as a Holy Sacrament.
    This isn't entirely true. My grandmother received a covalidation of her marriage after her first husband died. While he was alive he would not sign the paperwork for an annulment and she wanted to get married to her second husband in the Catholic Church (She was 65). 

    However, this is an extreme case and the priest at her church had known her for years. 
    That doesn't sound right. The other party does not have to agree to an annulment for it to be granted. My brother annulled his first marriage over his ex's objections. (He had to have a hearing and it took two years. Luckily, he wasn't engaged.) 

    Maybe she didn't want to go through the fight, but the ex didn't have the power to prevent the annulment.  
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  • TrixieJessTrixieJess member
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    MyNameIsNot said:
    TrixieJess said:
    CMGragain said:
    Convalidations are not for people who can't wait for the paperwork and counseling sessions.  They are for people who convert to Catholicism, and want to have their marriage recognized as a Holy Sacrament.
    This isn't entirely true. My grandmother received a covalidation of her marriage after her first husband died. While he was alive he would not sign the paperwork for an annulment and she wanted to get married to her second husband in the Catholic Church (She was 65). 

    However, this is an extreme case and the priest at her church had known her for years. 
    That doesn't sound right. The other party does not have to agree to an annulment for it to be granted. My brother annulled his first marriage over his ex's objections. (He had to have a hearing and it took two years. Luckily, he wasn't engaged.) 

    Maybe she didn't want to go through the fight, but the ex didn't have the power to prevent the annulment.  
    This was 40 years ago. Church laws may have changed. In the 60s and 70s, both parties had to agree to the annulment in order for the Church to provide it. She had to present his death certificate in order to have the Covalidation.
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  • dreamsinpinkdreamsinpink member
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    edited June 2015
    Actually, you can get the marriage blessed by the church without converting. Both my parents, and FI parents did this. Both got married outside the church, then after having kids decided to get it blessed. Trust me, I've had MANY conversations with my uncle about the process.

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  • banana468banana468 member
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    dreamsinpink said:
    Actually, you can get the marriage blessed by the church without converting. Both my parents, and FI parents did this. Both got married outside the church, then after having kids decided to get it blessed. Trust me, I've had MANY conversations with my uncle about the process.
    You *can* do this but it's often done as a part of a long process, thoughtful consideration and understanding.

    The Church is generally not a fan of couples who opt to marry outside the church with a desired valid marriage from the start.   
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  • thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 member
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    edited June 2015
    So two things. 
    A) OP, I agree that if this is more about your mother and not what YOU want, then PPs have great advice. Either wait for the annulment and do this all properly, or cho0se to have a wedding outside the Church. 

    B ) While NotDoingIt's response strikes me as highly judgmental, she has a point that "the Church does not own marriage."  My husband was first married Catholic, got divorced, and has his marriage annulled. But, neither of us wanted a Catholic wedding for ourselves. My dad, his mom (both practicing Catholics), and I still wanted a spiritual wedding though. We found a Reverend that was the perfect fit and our ceremony still had Bible readings and prayer... but it was not in the Church and was not the Sacrament and no, we don't attend mass. I do agree that there's not a monopoly on prayers and blessings, so maybe you can find a compromise like we did. 

    Edit: B is not a sunglasses smiley...
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