How to politely say...

snowywinter · August 2015

teddygirl9 said:

She said she didn't want him/her running around UNSUPERVISED and the parent getting pissy about it. Hence why she asked if you even read the post...

I did read it. Why is this considered a jump in logic? She said she's tired of her friend bringing the UNINVITED child into her home and the child running around, etc. My point is that I would assume anyone with a young child would bring that child unless I specifically said not to. Ergo, if she's sick of her friend bringing the "uninvited" child over who then runs around unsupervised, maybe she should tell her friend not to bring the child.

drunkenwitch · August 2015

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child
into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running
around unsupervised. One of the benefits
of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

Did you even read my post?

I absolutely did and I replied accordingly.

Gotcha, you believe it is perfectly acceptable to let your children enter the private areas of people's homes and rummage through their things. Good to know.

drunkenwitch · August 2015

snowywinter said:

teddygirl9 said:

She said she didn't want him/her running around UNSUPERVISED and the parent getting pissy about it. Hence why she asked if you even read the post...

I did read it. Why is this considered a jump in logic? She said she's tired of her friend bringing the UNINVITED child into her home and the child running around, etc. My point is that I would assume anyone with a young child would bring that child unless I specifically said not to. Ergo, if she's sick of her friend bringing the "uninvited" child over who then runs around unsupervised, maybe she should tell her friend not to bring the child.

Rigggghhhhtt...that will go over REALLY WELL.

snowywinter · August 2015

drunkenwitch said:

drunkenwitch said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

Did you even read my post?

I absolutely did and I replied accordingly.
Gotcha, you believe it is perfectly acceptable to let your children enter the private areas of people's homes and rummage through their things. Good to know.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. /sarcasm

lyndausvi · August 2015

I have to admit I'm really liking that most of my friend's and family's kids are older now. Visiting with them is a much nicer experience these days.

Don't worry kid-free people, this too shall pass.

banana468 · August 2015

I'll fully agree that younger kids are harder. They just are. I've asked DD to eat her chicken for a half hour!

lyndausvi · August 2015

banana468 said:

I'll fully agree that younger kids are harder. They just are. I've asked DD to eat her chicken for a half hour!

Kids have a way of being extra needy when their parents are trying to socialize. It's like they know you want to have an adult conversation and decide "fuck that, it's all about ME!"

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

And your point is? Does that make a better friend? A better person? More compassionate and wonderful? Are you advocating others should adopt that attitude? I feel like statements like this don't add much to the conversation without being thought out a bit more thoroughly- what would you like us, as the readers of your comment, to take away from it and respond to?

Then again, the rest of this convo has evolved into a very strange discussion of the ethics of procreation, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for at least staying on topic :P.

It doesn't make me a better anything. It simply means that I, for one, would not expect a friend with a small child not to bring her child to my home when I extend an invitation to her. If I didn't want the child there, I would specifically say so. I wouldn't assume that my friend would know that her baby/toddler was "not invited."

Okay but... so what? I mean I guess it's good that we know that fun fact about you but what is your motivation for stating that? Do you care to explain why you adopt that attitude? Or what about having that attitude makes it worth stating?

My point is- the default assumption in society is people are not welcome in private homes and events unless explicitly invited. I'm encouraging you to take your statement to its logical conclusion- why do you feel small children should be exempt from that bit of etiquette?

drunkenwitch · August 2015

The problem is, I have no problem going to HER house for a visit, and that's exactly what I do now. But, she wants to come to my house and visit, and has started pestering me to hang out at my house. That will inevitably turn into her son running around and getting into everything and her getting pissed off at me when I stop him from getting into everything. Rock, meet hard place.

What is frustrating is that none of my other friends with children are like this. They understand why I don't want kids at my house, agree my house is boring for kids and don't get offended that I prefer to come to them , we all agree that it just easier and less stressful for everyone involved*, except this one particular friend. I'm running out of excuses for why she can't come over and I know being honest will lead to her blowing her stack.

*by this I mean, the house is already kid proofed, the kids have things to entertain themselves when the grownups are doing the boring grownup talking thing and I get to spend some time doing arts and crafts with the kids and all their fun supplies. This also means I can visit past bedtime without disruption of routines. Help put the kids to bed by making up a story about them then have uncensored girl talk with my friends. Everyone wins.

snowywinter · August 2015

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

And your point is? Does that make a better friend? A better person? More compassionate and wonderful? Are you advocating others should adopt that attitude? I feel like statements like this don't add much to the conversation without being thought out a bit more thoroughly- what would you like us, as the readers of your comment, to take away from it and respond to?

Then again, the rest of this convo has evolved into a very strange discussion of the ethics of procreation, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for at least staying on topic :P.

It doesn't make me a better anything. It simply means that I, for one, would not expect a friend with a small child not to bring her child to my home when I extend an invitation to her. If I didn't want the child there, I would specifically say so. I wouldn't assume that my friend would know that her baby/toddler was "not invited."

Okay but... so what? I mean I guess it's good that we know that fun fact about you but what is your motivation for stating that? Do you care to explain why you adopt that attitude? Or what about having that attitude makes it worth stating?

My point is- the default assumption in society is people are not welcome in private homes and events unless explicitly invited. I'm encouraging you to take your statement to its logical conclusion- why do you feel small children should be exempt from that bit of etiquette?

It's a freaking DISCUSSION board, so I was adding my two cents. I don't need an answer beyond that. What makes your opinion so great that you feel the need for explanations from anyone who disagrees with you? Reverse your question and ask yourself so what?

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

And your point is? Does that make a better friend? A better person? More compassionate and wonderful? Are you advocating others should adopt that attitude? I feel like statements like this don't add much to the conversation without being thought out a bit more thoroughly- what would you like us, as the readers of your comment, to take away from it and respond to?

Then again, the rest of this convo has evolved into a very strange discussion of the ethics of procreation, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for at least staying on topic :P.

It doesn't make me a better anything. It simply means that I, for one, would not expect a friend with a small child not to bring her child to my home when I extend an invitation to her. If I didn't want the child there, I would specifically say so. I wouldn't assume that my friend would know that her baby/toddler was "not invited."

Okay but... so what? I mean I guess it's good that we know that fun fact about you but what is your motivation for stating that? Do you care to explain why you adopt that attitude? Or what about having that attitude makes it worth stating?

My point is- the default assumption in society is people are not welcome in private homes and events unless explicitly invited. I'm encouraging you to take your statement to its logical conclusion- why do you feel small children should be exempt from that bit of etiquette?

It's a freaking DISCUSSION board, so I was adding my two cents. I don't need an answer beyond that. What makes your opinion so great that you feel the need for explanations from anyone who disagrees with you? Reverse your question and ask yourself so what?

I'm not saying my opinion is great- my opinion just happens to be the "norm" and yours isn't, so I'm asking you why you are deviating from the norm. In every other aspect of society people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation, so I'm asking you why you don't think that should apply to kids. I'm not even placing a value judgment on that position.

I'm also curious- you don't feel the need to extend an explicit invitation to your friends' children to your home, but do/will you feel the same about taking your kids if/when you have them to your friends home (i.e. will you do it regardless of if they are explicitly invited)?

I just genuinely am trying to understand where you are coming from.

snowywinter · August 2015

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

And your point is? Does that make a better friend? A better person? More compassionate and wonderful? Are you advocating others should adopt that attitude? I feel like statements like this don't add much to the conversation without being thought out a bit more thoroughly- what would you like us, as the readers of your comment, to take away from it and respond to?

Then again, the rest of this convo has evolved into a very strange discussion of the ethics of procreation, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for at least staying on topic :P.

It doesn't make me a better anything. It simply means that I, for one, would not expect a friend with a small child not to bring her child to my home when I extend an invitation to her. If I didn't want the child there, I would specifically say so. I wouldn't assume that my friend would know that her baby/toddler was "not invited."

Okay but... so what? I mean I guess it's good that we know that fun fact about you but what is your motivation for stating that? Do you care to explain why you adopt that attitude? Or what about having that attitude makes it worth stating?

My point is- the default assumption in society is people are not welcome in private homes and events unless explicitly invited. I'm encouraging you to take your statement to its logical conclusion- why do you feel small children should be exempt from that bit of etiquette?

It's a freaking DISCUSSION board, so I was adding my two cents. I don't need an answer beyond that. What makes your opinion so great that you feel the need for explanations from anyone who disagrees with you? Reverse your question and ask yourself so what?

I'm not saying my opinion is great- my opinion just happens to be the "norm" and yours isn't, so I'm asking you why you are deviating from the norm. In every other aspect of society people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation, so I'm asking you why you don't think that should apply to kids. I'm not even placing a value judgment on that position.

I'm also curious- you don't feel the need to extend an explicit invitation to your friends' children to your home, but do/will you feel the same about taking your kids if/when you have them to your friends home (i.e. will you do it regardless of if they are explicitly invited)?

I just genuinely am trying to understand where you are coming from.

Your opinion about parents not bringing their small kids to others homes is the "norm" according to whom?

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

drunkenwitch said:

I am just tired of my friend bringing her uninvited child into my home and then getting pissy and defensive when I don’t want him running around unsupervised. One of the benefits of getting my tubes tied is I shouldn’t have to chase after a kid.
Hence, she stopped getting invited over to my home.

If I invite a friend with a young child into my home, I generally assume her child will come too. But again, that's just me.

And your point is? Does that make a better friend? A better person? More compassionate and wonderful? Are you advocating others should adopt that attitude? I feel like statements like this don't add much to the conversation without being thought out a bit more thoroughly- what would you like us, as the readers of your comment, to take away from it and respond to?

Then again, the rest of this convo has evolved into a very strange discussion of the ethics of procreation, so maybe I shouldn't fault you for at least staying on topic :P.

It doesn't make me a better anything. It simply means that I, for one, would not expect a friend with a small child not to bring her child to my home when I extend an invitation to her. If I didn't want the child there, I would specifically say so. I wouldn't assume that my friend would know that her baby/toddler was "not invited."

Okay but... so what? I mean I guess it's good that we know that fun fact about you but what is your motivation for stating that? Do you care to explain why you adopt that attitude? Or what about having that attitude makes it worth stating?

My point is- the default assumption in society is people are not welcome in private homes and events unless explicitly invited. I'm encouraging you to take your statement to its logical conclusion- why do you feel small children should be exempt from that bit of etiquette?

It's a freaking DISCUSSION board, so I was adding my two cents. I don't need an answer beyond that. What makes your opinion so great that you feel the need for explanations from anyone who disagrees with you? Reverse your question and ask yourself so what?

I'm not saying my opinion is great- my opinion just happens to be the "norm" and yours isn't, so I'm asking you why you are deviating from the norm. In every other aspect of society people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation, so I'm asking you why you don't think that should apply to kids. I'm not even placing a value judgment on that position.

I'm also curious- you don't feel the need to extend an explicit invitation to your friends' children to your home, but do/will you feel the same about taking your kids if/when you have them to your friends home (i.e. will you do it regardless of if they are explicitly invited)?

I just genuinely am trying to understand where you are coming from.

Your opinion about parents not bringing their small kids to others homes is the "norm" according to whom?

I think it is a well established rule of etiquette that people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation. Do I really need to source that?

snowywinter · August 2015

themosthappy91 said:

I think it is a well established rule of etiquette that people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation. Do I really need to source that?

We weren't talking about everyday people. We were talking specifically about young children (I'm talking babies and toddlers) tagging along with their mothers, who were invited guests.

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

I think it is a well established rule of etiquette that people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation. Do I really need to source that?

We weren't talking about everyday people. We were talking specifically about young children (I'm talking babies and toddlers) tagging along with their mothers, who were invited guests.

Okay, so I get that you are viewing that as a special "class" of people that you think the general rule about invitations and private homes should not apply to. I'm just asking why you think that.

Also you haven't answered my question- if/when you have kids, will you bring them to your friends' homes without them being explicitly invited?

monkeysip · August 2015

lyndausvi said:

banana468 said:

I'll fully agree that younger kids are harder. They just are. I've asked DD to eat her chicken for a half hour!

Kids have a way of being extra needy when their parents are trying to socialize. It's like they know you want to have an adult conversation and decide "fuck that, it's all about ME!"

Lol, DD is only 13 months and does that now. H and I try to have a conversation, and suddenly she's talking. We stop talking... she's silent. If one of us is taking care of her and calls the other, she starts crying. GIMME ATTENTION!

Seriously, I do get that kids can be annoying, especially uninvited to your home. *I* wouldn't want uninvited kids coming to my home either! Just because I have a child doesn't mean my home is a daycare.

There are some lazy or oblivious parents out there. I just think it's a two way street. I don't think the problem is JUST bad parents. In fact, everyone is a good parent until they have children, lol. You really are looking at things from the outside and judging a situation you may not understand. When you see parents at a store, or church, or restaurant, and the kids are being little monsters, they MAY be a bad parent. OR maybe they're doing their best, and they really could use some support. Being a parent can be very isolating sometimes. Sometimes all parents need is a bit of understanding and a smile.

snowywinter · August 2015

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

I think it is a well established rule of etiquette that people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation. Do I really need to source that?

We weren't talking about everyday people. We were talking specifically about young children (I'm talking babies and toddlers) tagging along with their mothers, who were invited guests.

Okay, so I get that you are viewing that as a special "class" of people that you think the general rule about invitations and private homes should not apply to. I'm just asking why you think that.

Also you haven't answered my question- if/when you have kids, will you bring them to your friends' homes without them being explicitly invited?

I think it because I do. End of story. And I'm not getting into a hypothetical "what would you do..." run-around because I don't plan to have children.

lyndausvi · August 2015

At least in my own experience working with the public, oddly it's people who have kids (young or adult) who complain the most about other kids. NOT child-free people. If they have young kids it's "If I wanted to hear screaming I would have brought my own". If they have older kids it's "my kids never acted that way in public" or "we would have left by now".

Church - my grandmother didn't put up with temper tantrums. If the kid is screaming you need to leave. However, if your baby/toddler is just "talking" then she is all good. Being Catholics we are always standing, sitting, kneeling, we do a lot of group prayers, signing, etc. As she said they are way too young to understand when the correct time to do something. They hear us praying,singing or moving up and down and are sometimes a little late joining in.

monkeysip · August 2015

That's really true--I think parents are often the harshest critics of other parents. I try to always remember that I have no idea what's going on with other families.

And that's how we treat church with DD too. If she starts crying, we try to calm her down for a few minutes, and sometimes that works fine. If it doesn't work, either H or I will take her out. But a lot of times she's just squirmy and "talking". To me, that's just kids being kids. At a really young age, that's normal. When they get older, of course, you can start teaching them about proper behavior during church. But I feel like some people act as if kids, even babies, should be silent during church, and if not, they should leave.

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91 said:

I think it is a well established rule of etiquette that people are not welcome in private homes without an invitation. Do I really need to source that?

We weren't talking about everyday people. We were talking specifically about young children (I'm talking babies and toddlers) tagging along with their mothers, who were invited guests.

Okay, so I get that you are viewing that as a special "class" of people that you think the general rule about invitations and private homes should not apply to. I'm just asking why you think that.

Also you haven't answered my question- if/when you have kids, will you bring them to your friends' homes without them being explicitly invited?

I think it because I do. End of story. And I'm not getting into a hypothetical "what would you do..." run-around because I don't plan to have children.

I just don't understand why you would make this big point of stating multiple times that you would never assume a mom invited to your house was not going to bring her small child but then refuse to explain why you feel that way. Why even bring it up if you're unwilling to explain your thought process?

I'm not going to lie- you saying you're not going to get into a hypothetical makes me think you would honestly feel uncomfortable bringing a child to someone's house without an invitation. So like, it's cool that you personally don't care if your friends bring their kids to your house, but I wouldn't go around making a point of "look how chill I am about this" and advising other people that it's their responsibility to take the initiative to specifically state who is not invited to their house.

snowywinter · August 2015

themosthappy91, I don't have to explain my thought process to you. No one has to explain their thought process. They engage in conversation and if they so choose, they will explain what they want, but to repeatedly ask the same exact question over and over feels more like badgering than asking and makes me less inclined to share any more about my opinion aside from the fact that it still IS my opinion, regardless of your protests. Asking me 10 more times will not yield a new result.

themosthappy91 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

themosthappy91, I don't have to explain my thought process to you. No one has to explain their thought process. They engage in conversation and if they so choose, they will explain what they want, but to repeatedly ask the same exact question over and over feels more like badgering than asking and makes me less inclined to share any more about my opinion aside from the fact that it still IS my opinion, regardless of your protests. Asking me 10 more times will not yield a new result.

That's totally fine, man. I assumed you wanted to talk about it because you kept bringing it up. I was open to reconsidering my position, so I figured I'd ask you why you felt the way you do. I wouldn't have asked multiple time if you had just said upfront "I have this opinion but I don't want to discuss it any further". It's unfortunate we weren't able to have a more meaningful dialogue I guess.

[Deleted User] · August 2015

monkeysip said:

FeeleyToBe said:

monkeysip said:
The problem is we have an AGING population. So, unless you want to start killing off the elderly (volunteers?) then people need to keep having babies.

And yes, our population has increased exponentially, but so have our resources. People were warning that we were soon going to reach our max back when our population was 1/20th of its current size.

It's really easy to complain about population problems from the privileged position of western society. Western society uses WAY more resources than the over-populated countries. It's NOT about overpopulation, it's about an unequal use of resources.

And about people's hostility to children? Sure, some of it may be a result of bad parenting. But I think that's a copout to say it's all that. Let's face it, society has increasingly separated sex from procreation in its mind, and children are no longer seen as assets, but only liabilities.

I don't take DD to fancy restaurants, bars, weddings-she's-not-invited-to, or anything like that. Adult space is fine. But I don't like that even at Dennys or Target or CHURCH for goodness sake, people act like a crying baby is the end of the world. Guess all of us parents should just stay home and try to make sure our children never make a peep. Because that's healthy. And the whole "children should be seen and not heard" is ALSO a western cultural thing. Other societies don't view children that way.
Please show me some data that says resources are increasing. Tell that to people in CA going on 4 years of drought. That's just one example off the top of my head.

So, food sources haven't increased over your little graph that showed population growth over 2,000 years? Lol....

I'm not saying all resources have increased. You're right, water is a good example. I still know large families though that consume less than single people people they're thrifty. Again, my point is that people can't just stop having babies. That's not the solution to the problem. The solution lies in being less of a consuming society.

Think of the drought in california. Farmers and poorer people are suffering because there's no water. And yet rich people have luscious green lawns. It's a problem of distribution. I'm not saying we should all have 10+ kids, I'm just saying it's silly to think that everyone sticking to some kind of one-child policy or something is going to help anything, you know? Society will ALWAYS need children.

Food sources have increased in quantity and completely decreased in quality. Read The third Plate by Dan Barber or Omnivore's Dilemma by Pollen. The food system is a disgrace.

No one said stop having children, BTW, except Banana, who jumped from no, I don't like the child free or childless to give me parenting advice to, if we all stopped having babies who would take care of you in your old age. Not sure how that leap of topic was made but whatever.

drunkenwitch · August 2015

snowywinter said:

teddygirl9 said:

She said she didn't want him/her running around UNSUPERVISED and the parent getting pissy about it. Hence why she asked if you even read the post...

I did read it. Why is this considered a jump in logic? She said she's tired of her friend bringing the UNINVITED child into her home and the child running around, etc. My point is that I would assume anyone with a young child would bring that child unless I specifically said not to. Ergo, if she's sick of her friend bringing the "uninvited" child over who then runs around unsupervised, maybe she should tell her friend not to bring the child.

Oh goody, you're fun

Heffalump · August 2015

MrsMack10612 said:

I see a whole lot more bad parenting than I do good parenting.

To be fair, the bad parenting is a lot more noticeable. Good parenting is like a good bra, it's so good that other people don't even notice it.

MrsMack10612 · August 2015

monkeysip said:

That's really true--I think parents are often the harshest critics of other parents. I try to always remember that I have no idea what's going on with other families.

And that's how we treat church with DD too. If she starts crying, we try to calm her down for a few minutes, and sometimes that works fine. If it doesn't work, either H or I will take her out. But a lot of times she's just squirmy and "talking". To me, that's just kids being kids. At a really young age, that's normal. When they get older, of course, you can start teaching them about proper behavior during church. But I feel like some people act as if kids, even babies, should be silent during church, and if not, they should leave.

I think I'm the one that started the church debate and I just want to clarify, if I hear a little one just being a kid babbling, what's that mommy kind of thing, I have no problem with that. I'm talking about crying/screaming children.

MrsMack10612 · August 2015

@heffalump - that's a good point and you are probably right. I can happily say I have seen acts of good parenting in the wild.

I will also admit that I'm taking a harder line for the basis of this discussion, but personally I am trying to be less judgmental. Sometimes those out of control kids may be more than spoiled brats throwing a tantrum and could be a child with special needs who are even more unpredictable than other kids.

banana468 · August 2015

FeeleyToBe said:

FeeleyToBe said:

The problem is we have an AGING population. So, unless you want to start killing off the elderly (volunteers?) then people need to keep having babies.

And yes, our population has increased exponentially, but so have our resources. People were warning that we were soon going to reach our max back when our population was 1/20th of its current size.

It's really easy to complain about population problems from the privileged position of western society. Western society uses WAY more resources than the over-populated countries. It's NOT about overpopulation, it's about an unequal use of resources.

And about people's hostility to children? Sure, some of it may be a result of bad parenting. But I think that's a copout to say it's all that. Let's face it, society has increasingly separated sex from procreation in its mind, and children are no longer seen as assets, but only liabilities.

I don't take DD to fancy restaurants, bars, weddings-she's-not-invited-to, or anything like that. Adult space is fine. But I don't like that even at Dennys or Target or CHURCH for goodness sake, people act like a crying baby is the end of the world. Guess all of us parents should just stay home and try to make sure our children never make a peep. Because that's healthy. And the whole "children should be seen and not heard" is ALSO a western cultural thing. Other societies don't view children that way.
Please show me some data that says resources are increasing. Tell that to people in CA going on 4 years of drought. That's just one example off the top of my head.

So, food sources haven't increased over your little graph that showed population growth over 2,000 years? Lol....

I'm not saying all resources have increased. You're right, water is a good example. I still know large families though that consume less than single people people they're thrifty. Again, my point is that people can't just stop having babies. That's not the solution to the problem. The solution lies in being less of a consuming society.

Think of the drought in california. Farmers and poorer people are suffering because there's no water. And yet rich people have luscious green lawns. It's a problem of distribution. I'm not saying we should all have 10+ kids, I'm just saying it's silly to think that everyone sticking to some kind of one-child policy or something is going to help anything, you know? Society will ALWAYS need children.
Food sources have increased in quantity and completely decreased in quality. Read The third Plate by Dan Barber or Omnivore's Dilemma by Pollen. The food system is a disgrace. No one said stop having children, BTW, except Banana, who jumped from no, I don't like the child free or childless to give me parenting advice to, if we all stopped having babies who would take care of you in your old age. Not sure how that leap of topic was made but whatever.

You talked about how you don't maintain relationships with parents. My point is that if people aren't becoming parents then we're going to have a lot of child-free / childless people out there. Forgive me if I'm wrong but the tone I got from your original post is that when your friends have kids, you don't really want to remain friends with them. And that's a rather isolating way to start to live. If I did that, (aside from the fact that I have kids), I'd be removing a lot of people from my life. That's really all I'm trying to say. Yes we can have natural resource issues but we are still going to need to have some kind of birth rate. And your post makes it sound like you don't want to hang out with those reproducing - so we need some kids out there so our society can continue to function as a whole but you just don't want to deal with them. If that's not the case then I'm sorry.

And I know I'm emotionally raw. Between watching DD get on the school bus to seeing my baby turn one to losing my grandmother yesterday, I see that life needs to keep moving forward. And thankfully, people had children so she was able to have people take care of her these last few days when it took a team of people to be able to move her from her bed to the bathroom or for an x ray or just to sit up and sip some fluid. So my perspective in these last few days has been one rather reflective of a phenomenal woman leaving behind her legacy.

banana468 · August 2015

MrsMack10612 said:

monkeysip said:

That's really true--I think parents are often the harshest critics of other parents. I try to always remember that I have no idea what's going on with other families.

And that's how we treat church with DD too. If she starts crying, we try to calm her down for a few minutes, and sometimes that works fine. If it doesn't work, either H or I will take her out. But a lot of times she's just squirmy and "talking". To me, that's just kids being kids. At a really young age, that's normal. When they get older, of course, you can start teaching them about proper behavior during church. But I feel like some people act as if kids, even babies, should be silent during church, and if not, they should leave.

I think I'm the one that started the church debate and I just want to clarify, if I hear a little one just being a kid babbling, what's that mommy kind of thing, I have no problem with that. I'm talking about crying/screaming children.

FWIW, I really try hard in church to balance this. When DS is cranky, I try to nurse him / soothe him with a pacifier or let him hold a blanket/book for a bit. If things escalate, I don't let him drown out the priest but there's a decent chance that you'll hear a potentially negative sound from him. We try to balance that with a 'we made this go away' with a 'this isn't stopping'.

MrsMack10612 · August 2015

banana468 said:

MrsMack10612 said:

monkeysip said:

That's really true--I think parents are often the harshest critics of other parents. I try to always remember that I have no idea what's going on with other families.

And that's how we treat church with DD too. If she starts crying, we try to calm her down for a few minutes, and sometimes that works fine. If it doesn't work, either H or I will take her out. But a lot of times she's just squirmy and "talking". To me, that's just kids being kids. At a really young age, that's normal. When they get older, of course, you can start teaching them about proper behavior during church. But I feel like some people act as if kids, even babies, should be silent during church, and if not, they should leave.

I think I'm the one that started the church debate and I just want to clarify, if I hear a little one just being a kid babbling, what's that mommy kind of thing, I have no problem with that. I'm talking about crying/screaming children.

FWIW, I really try hard in church to balance this. When DS is cranky, I try to nurse him / soothe him with a pacifier or let him hold a blanket/book for a bit. If things escalate, I don't let him drown out the priest but there's a decent chance that you'll hear a potentially negative sound from him. We try to balance that with a 'we made this go away' with a 'this isn't stopping'.

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

I'm glad you are attempting to soothe him, but I can't tell from your response if he gets to the "this isn't stopping" point, do you remove him from the space?

I get it - babies cry, kids act up, toddlers have meltdowns and generally none of it can be predicted. My issue is with those parents that just let it disrupt the entire groups experience by not doing anything. And this is for church, restaurants, movie theatres, whatever.

How to politely say...

Re: How to politely say...

Choose Another Board

Search Boards