Friday wedding?

PamBeesly524 · August 2015

Guys.. I got married on 5/24. Does that sound good enough? Should I have a do-over to a better sounding date? Maybe I will make up my own date, Ape-tember 42nd. I love how that sounds.

lyndausvi · August 2015

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

stop using logic.

I kind-of get picking a date that has meaning. I still think it's silly as your wedding date will have meaning on it's own. But to pick a date that "sounds" good? What does that even mean?

FWIW - in all my years I've never once heard someone refer to their anniversary as the numeric month, date and year (i.e. 8/20/16). Never. People simple say "Aug 20th". They do not even bother with the year.

Maggie0829 · August 2015

I got married on July 16, 2011. Does that sound good or do I need to have a do-over with a better sounding date?

julieanne912 · August 2015

PamBeesly524 said:

Guys.. I got married on 5/24. Does that sound good enough? Should I have a do-over to a better sounding date? Maybe I will make up my own date, Ape-tember 42nd. I love how that sounds.

5/24 sounds fucking fantastic, because that's my birthday.

julieanne912 · August 2015

lyndausvi said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

stop using logic.

I kind-of get picking a date that has meaning. I still think it's silly as your wedding date will have meaning on it's own. But to pick a date that "sounds" good? What does that even mean?

FWIW - in all my years I've never once heard someone refer to their anniversary as the numeric month, date and year (i.e. 8/20/16). Never. People simple say "Aug 20th". They do not even bother with the year.

One thing my nerdy FI pointed out, after we have the date, is that each number in our date is 3 numbers apart. 9/12/15 so 9+3 = 12 and 12+3=15

snowywinter · August 2015

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

AddieCake · August 2015

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

snowywinter · August 2015

AddieCake said:

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

I never said otherwise. However, if you choose your date a year and a half in advance and you're not tied to a specific venue, chances are you are going to find a venue with that date open. It is entirely possible to call up a venue and say "do you have such and such date open?" and if it's early enough, you'll often be fine. Of the four weddings I attended this summer, 2 of them set their dates prior to finding the venue. They were also the two couples who had long engagements so they could do that.

Maggie0829 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

AddieCake said:

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

I never said otherwise. However, if you choose your date a year and a half in advance and you're not tied to a specific venue, chances are you are going to find a venue with that date open. It is entirely possible to call up a venue and say "do you have such and such date open?" and if it's early enough, you'll often be fine. Of the four weddings I attended this summer, 2 of them set their dates prior to finding the venue. They were also the two couples who had long engagements so they could do that.

But putting a specific date over anything else is just ridiculous. People need to be reasonable when it comes to planning their wedding. Picking a venue that you like and is within your budget is more important then keeping a specific date. What happens if the only venues available on your oh so special date are out of your budget? What do you do then?

But like Lynda said above, your wedding date will be a special date regardless because it is the day you got married.

TheCheeseWench · August 2015

Maggie0829 said:

snowywinter said:

AddieCake said:

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

I never said otherwise. However, if you choose your date a year and a half in advance and you're not tied to a specific venue, chances are you are going to find a venue with that date open. It is entirely possible to call up a venue and say "do you have such and such date open?" and if it's early enough, you'll often be fine. Of the four weddings I attended this summer, 2 of them set their dates prior to finding the venue. They were also the two couples who had long engagements so they could do that.

But putting a specific date over anything else is just ridiculous. People need to be reasonable when it comes to planning their wedding. Picking a venue that you like and is within your budget is more important then keeping a specific date. What happens if the only venues available on your oh so special date are out of your budget? What do you do then?

But like Lynda said above, your wedding date will be a special date regardless because it is the day you got married.

Duh @Maggie0829 you have a Dollar Dance and register online for a Reception Fund (<---I'm seriously surprised some asshole hasn't made this a "thing" yet).

Maggie0829 · August 2015

@TheCheeseWench - sadly it is a "thing." People have been known to set up Go Fund Me's or make their own "registries" for wedding day things like centerpieces, photography, etc.

snowywinter · August 2015

Maggie0829 said:

snowywinter said:

AddieCake said:

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

I never said otherwise. However, if you choose your date a year and a half in advance and you're not tied to a specific venue, chances are you are going to find a venue with that date open. It is entirely possible to call up a venue and say "do you have such and such date open?" and if it's early enough, you'll often be fine. Of the four weddings I attended this summer, 2 of them set their dates prior to finding the venue. They were also the two couples who had long engagements so they could do that.

But putting a specific date over anything else is just ridiculous. People need to be reasonable when it comes to planning their wedding. Picking a venue that you like and is within your budget is more important then keeping a specific date. What happens if the only venues available on your oh so special date are out of your budget? What do you do then?

But like Lynda said above, your wedding date will be a special date regardless because it is the day you got married.

Who are you or me or anyone else to tell other couples what things take priority when planning their wedding? Their way may not be your way, but that doesn't mean it's ridiculous. In fact, people do it ALL THE TIME. Look at all the weddings on July 4th or New Year's Eve. I seriously doubt they picked up the phone and asked "what dates in December do you have available?" No, likely, they planned to get married NYE and THEN called and found a venue to accommodate them. Again, if you're not tied to a specific venue and you have a long engagement, you can do this. One of the weddings I attended this summer was of a friend who did this very thing and at one time, she was choosing between SIX different venues. So it isn't like she was restricted in choices just because she chose her date first. Her way isn't ridiculous just because it's not the way the rest of us chose. She just had the luxury of time and was able to do that. I find nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

TheCheeseWench · August 2015

snowywinter said:

Maggie0829 said:

snowywinter said:

AddieCake said:

snowywinter said:

julieanne912 said:

Just fyi, the normal way is to find the venue first, then pick the date. For example, we got engaged this February. Needless to say, a lot of venues were already booked. I called one I liked and asked "What Saturdays do you still have available this fall?" She tells me, 9/12 and 10/24. I said "OK we'll take 9/12". Boom, there's our wedding date.

If you do it early enough, there is nothing wrong with picking the date first. Couples do it all the time. You just have to plan way in advance and not be tied to a specific venue.

The point is that it isn't officially your date until you have secured the venue and officiant.

I never said otherwise. However, if you choose your date a year and a half in advance and you're not tied to a specific venue, chances are you are going to find a venue with that date open. It is entirely possible to call up a venue and say "do you have such and such date open?" and if it's early enough, you'll often be fine. Of the four weddings I attended this summer, 2 of them set their dates prior to finding the venue. They were also the two couples who had long engagements so they could do that.

But putting a specific date over anything else is just ridiculous. People need to be reasonable when it comes to planning their wedding. Picking a venue that you like and is within your budget is more important then keeping a specific date. What happens if the only venues available on your oh so special date are out of your budget? What do you do then?

But like Lynda said above, your wedding date will be a special date regardless because it is the day you got married.

Who are you or me or anyone else to tell other couples what things take priority when planning their wedding? Their way may not be your way, but that doesn't mean it's ridiculous. In fact, people do it ALL THE TIME. Look at all the weddings on July 4th or New Year's Eve. I seriously doubt they picked up the phone and asked "what dates in December do you have available?" No, likely, they planned to get married NYE and THEN called and found a venue to accommodate them. Again, if you're not tied to a specific venue and you have a long engagement, you can do this. One of the weddings I attended this summer was of a friend who did this very thing and at one time, she was choosing between SIX different venues. So it isn't like she was restricted in choices just because she chose her date first. Her way isn't ridiculous just because it's not the way the rest of us chose. She just had the luxury of time and was able to do that. I find nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

To me it is less about the practice of choosing the date first than this REASON for choosing the date first. Choosing a holiday/significant date is much different than sitting around saying and/or writing the date to see which one SOUNDS/LOOKS best. "XX/XX/XXXX just sounds more wedding-y than YY/YY/YYYY"
WTF???

ETA:
@Maggie0829 of course they have. Some days people just make me sad. *SMH*

snowywinter · August 2015

Some people have a thing about numbers. I had a friend who swore by the number 6. She thought it was a good luck and her wedding day HAD to have sixes in it. She ended up getting married on June 6, 2012 because her Fi wouldn't wait until 2016 like she wanted. lol.

TNDancer · August 2015

I'm assuming Malachi is a biblical name spelled differently?

I read this phonetically, and in my head heard "Ma-lak-eee" and thought well that doesn't sound good at all.

lildropofsunshine · August 2015

TNDancer said:

I'm assuming Malachi is a biblical name spelled differently?
I read this phonetically, and in my head heard "Ma-lak-eee" and thought well that doesn't sound good at all.

Malachi is how it's spelled in the Bible...

JoanE2012 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

Some people have a thing about numbers. I had a friend who swore by the number 6. She thought it was a good luck and her wedding day HAD to have sixes in it. She ended up getting married on June 6, 2012 because her Fi wouldn't wait until 2016 like she wanted. lol.

No way I'm attending a Wednesday wedding because, OMG, the bride's lucky number is 6! Hopefully she eloped, because for most people, holy inconvenience! I think guests comfort and convenience should trump any vision, whether it's a date, venue, etc.

snowywinter · August 2015

JoanE2012 said:

snowywinter said:

Some people have a thing about numbers. I had a friend who swore by the number 6. She thought it was a good luck and her wedding day HAD to have sixes in it. She ended up getting married on June 6, 2012 because her Fi wouldn't wait until 2016 like she wanted. lol.

No way I'm attending a Wednesday wedding because, OMG, the bride's lucky number is 6! Hopefully she eloped, because for most people, holy inconvenience! I think guests comfort and convenience should trump any vision, whether it's a date, venue, etc.

Calm down, she got married on her parents' farm and had a small ceremony and reception. I think it was just family and their best friends (another couple).

DarthV8r · August 2015

Viczaesar said:
A 4 pm Friday wedding says to me "I don't care if it's convenient for you or if you come or not." Why 4 pm? How many of your guests are local, and how many would be from out of town?

What if your whole family was invited to a local Friday Wedding: should I exclude you because of your schedule?

I hope I don't look like a bad host because I have a Friday wedding. I don't know all the work schedules of my guests because it varies so much . I only checked with my V.I.P.'s.
I love all my wedding guests and would hope that a Friday is better than a Saturday because of their profession. If not , I'm OK with declines. I know work Trumps a wedding. But I don't want them to think I don't care about them being there or that I dont care about their convenience.
I feel sad now because I wanted to host our wedding so well. I'm even going to host valet parking.

Maggie0829 · August 2015

ibarfburlapandlace said:

A 4 pm Friday wedding says to me "I don't care if it's convenient for you or if you come or not." Why 4 pm? How many of your guests are local, and how many would be from out of town?
What if your whole family was invited to a local Friday Wedding: should I exclude you because of your schedule? I hope I don't look like a bad host because I have a Friday wedding. I don't know all the work schedules of my guests because it varies so much . I only checked with my V.I.P.'s. I love all my wedding guests and would hope that a Friday is better than a Saturday because of their profession. If not , I'm OK with declines. I know work Trumps a wedding. But I don't want them to think I don't care about them being there or that I dont care about their convenience. I feel sad now because I wanted to host our wedding so well. I'm even going to host valet parking.

@ibarfburlapandalce - don't feel sad. What you are planning is fine. I certainly don't feel the same way that Viczaesar feels. You have no way of knowing the work schedules of all of your guests. Hell the majority of guests could possibly work Saturdays so Fridays are better for them. You checked with your VIPs and you are planning something that is hosted properly. So no worries. I mean it isn't like you planned a wedding for 10am on a Tuesday.

TheCheeseWench · August 2015

ibarfburlapandlace said:

Viczaesar said:
A 4 pm Friday wedding says to me "I don't care if it's convenient for you or if you come or not." Why 4 pm? How many of your guests are local, and how many would be from out of town?

What if your whole family was invited to a local Friday Wedding: should I exclude you because of your schedule?

I hope I don't look like a bad host because I have a Friday wedding. I don't know all the work schedules of my guests because it varies so much . I only checked with my V.I.P.'s.
I love all my wedding guests and would hope that a Friday is better than a Saturday because of their profession. If not , I'm OK with declines. I know work Trumps a wedding. But I don't want them to think I don't care about them being there or that I dont care about their convenience.
I feel sad now because I wanted to host our wedding so well. I'm even going to host valet parking.

I planned mine for a Thursday evening, (and it is OOT). Most of my side of the guest list couldn't come on a weekend because of their jobs. This way they can attend and get back to work by Friday night. Some are coming down Tuesday to relax for a couple of days. FI's friends are really excited to get to spend a long weekend at the brewery afterwards, and many of them live nearby. Our VIPs were pleased that the wonky date and location would mean it would be small so we could all actually enjoy our time together. FI & I really like that, since we only wanted 50 or so guests, but the Mothers added quite a few. Now we get our small wedding, but since Great Aunt Ida got an invite, FMIL is happy.

The only "work" problem that were looking at is FI's family business. His parents, brother, & uncle work with him so the store will be very short handed, but again it would have been worse for them to be gone on a Saturday.

madamerwin · August 2015

snowywinter said:

Some people have a thing about numbers. I had a friend who swore by the number 6. She thought it was a good luck and her wedding day HAD to have sixes in it. She ended up getting married on June 6, 2012 because her Fi wouldn't wait until 2016 like she wanted. lol.

I'm late to the party here, but I will attest that people (myself included) DO have weird number things.... I am fond of the numbers 8 and 13, to the point that some repetitive activities that require doing the same activity many times (like hitting the 10 second fast forward button on DirecTV, or brushing my hair), I do in multiples of those numbers. I also think that of all the dates of the year, the 28th is the best date.

If I could have picked any date to get married, it would have been June 28th or August 28th (today!), because I think they sound the best. But the venue we wanted only had June 20th available, so we took it.

Granted, I wouldn't let my weird number hangups actually dictate my wedding planning, and I am not saying it's a super smart way to go about planning a wedding, but I get how a number can "sound" good to some people. (I have something called number-form synesthesia, where all numbers, dates, times, etc. are very distinct in my head, with their own place and personality - that probably has to do with my like of some numbers and aversion to others).

AddieCake · August 2015

It's fine to CONSIDER or WANT a date first. Yes, that's likely what most people do. However, if I want June 4th, and I start making calls and June 4th is not available at any venues I like or that fit my needs, then June 4th is NOT my date. It's the date I was hoping for, but now I have no date and must consider and look into another one. You simply can't claim to have a date until you secure a location.

JoanE2012 · August 2015

snowywinter said:

JoanE2012 said:

snowywinter said:

Some people have a thing about numbers. I had a friend who swore by the number 6. She thought it was a good luck and her wedding day HAD to have sixes in it. She ended up getting married on June 6, 2012 because her Fi wouldn't wait until 2016 like she wanted. lol.

No way I'm attending a Wednesday wedding because, OMG, the bride's lucky number is 6! Hopefully she eloped, because for most people, holy inconvenience! I think guests comfort and convenience should trump any vision, whether it's a date, venue, etc.

Calm down, she got married on her parents' farm and had a small ceremony and reception. I think it was just family and their best friends (another couple).

Umm, I am calm - I'm just stating my opinion! That's nice it was small, but still, I'm sure the people that were there weren't all thrilled about it. If someone in my immediate family or a close friend did this, I wouldn't tell them it was a horrible idea to their face, but you better believe I'd be bitching about it to my DH. Hopefully the lucky numbers work in their favor and they don't get divorced in the future! That would sure suck.

CMGragain · August 2015

There are some cultures where numerics are very important. Many Indian, Chinese, or southeast Asian couples wouldn't consider setting a date without first consulting an astrologer. If you are from this tradition, then so be it. If you are not....sorry, but I don't get it.

Viczaesar · August 2015

ibarfburlapandlace said:

A 4 pm Friday wedding says to me "I don't care if it's convenient for you or if you come or not." Why 4 pm? How many of your guests are local, and how many would be from out of town?
What if your whole family was invited to a local Friday Wedding: should I exclude you because of your schedule? I hope I don't look like a bad host because I have a Friday wedding. I don't know all the work schedules of my guests because it varies so much . I only checked with my V.I.P.'s. I love all my wedding guests and would hope that a Friday is better than a Saturday because of their profession. If not , I'm OK with declines. I know work Trumps a wedding. But I don't want them to think I don't care about them being there or that I dont care about their convenience. I feel sad now because I wanted to host our wedding so well. I'm even going to host valet parking.

Who said I have a schedule conflict with a 4 pm Friday wedding? Who said anything about whether you should invite someone whose work schedule conflicts with your wedding plans?

Having your wedding at a time of day on a week day where most of your guests would have to take time off of work to attend says to me that you don't care if people attend. I never said that Friday weddings were a problem. However, unless the majority of your guest list has an unusual work schedule and is free on Friday at 4 pm then yes, I do think that you're being inconsiderate of your guests. If you (general) just want a cheaper wedding, why not start it at 6:30 or 7, so that people who work M-F 9-5 don't have to take time off of work or miss part of your wedding? That's why I asked OP why 4 pm, and whether her guests are coming from out of town or are local. Mostly local guests with traditional work schedules? I think 4 pm is inconsiderate. Mostly local guests but primarily people who work a non-traditional schedule? 4 pm might make more sense then. Mostly out of town guests who will have to take Friday off regardless of what time the ceremony starts? 4 pm might make more sense then as well. But in general a weekday wedding before 6 pm indicates to me that you may be valuing your vision more than your guests.

Out of curiosity, does your wedding start before 6 pm? Is that why you identify with what I wrote?

lildropofsunshine · August 2015

My fiance is Vietnamese, so the calendar is very important to his mother about when we're getting married. I can't just pick a random day, it has to be one labeled as auspicious by the Chinese calendar. But beyond that, this thread is null and void now since I'm having a Saturday wedding now.

JoanE2012 · August 2015

lildropofsunshine said:

My fiance is Vietnamese, so the calendar is very important to his mother about when we're getting married. I can't just pick a random day, it has to be one labeled as auspicious by the Chinese calendar. But beyond that, this thread is null and void now since I'm having a Saturday wedding now.

But what's important to you and your FI? Unless his mother is paying for the wedding, you should be doing what makes you and FI happy. You're grown adults.

lildropofsunshine · August 2015

JoanE2012 said:

lildropofsunshine said:

My fiance is Vietnamese, so the calendar is very important to his mother about when we're getting married. I can't just pick a random day, it has to be one labeled as auspicious by the Chinese calendar. But beyond that, this thread is null and void now since I'm having a Saturday wedding now.

But what's important to you and your FI? Unless his mother is paying for the wedding, you should be doing what makes you and FI happy. You're grown adults.

It's important to my fiance that we hold the wedding on a day that is auspicious because it's important to his mother. And it's important to me to have them be happy. But like I said, this thread doesn't even matter anymore because we're not having a Friday wedding.

DarthV8r · August 2015

Viczaesar said:

ibarfburlapandlace said:

A 4 pm Friday wedding says to me "I don't care if it's convenient for you or if you come or not." Why 4 pm? How many of your guests are local, and how many would be from out of town?
What if your whole family was invited to a local Friday Wedding: should I exclude you because of your schedule? I hope I don't look like a bad host because I have a Friday wedding. I don't know all the work schedules of my guests because it varies so much . I only checked with my V.I.P.'s. I love all my wedding guests and would hope that a Friday is better than a Saturday because of their profession. If not , I'm OK with declines. I know work Trumps a wedding. But I don't want them to think I don't care about them being there or that I dont care about their convenience. I feel sad now because I wanted to host our wedding so well. I'm even going to host valet parking.

Who said I have a schedule conflict with a 4 pm Friday wedding? Who said anything about whether you should invite someone whose work schedule conflicts with your wedding plans?

Having your wedding at a time of day on a week day where most of your guests would have to take time off of work to attend says to me that you don't care if people attend. I never said that Friday weddings were a problem. However, unless the majority of your guest list has an unusual work schedule and is free on Friday at 4 pm then yes, I do think that you're being inconsiderate of your guests. If you (general) just want a cheaper wedding, why not start it at 6:30 or 7, so that people who work M-F 9-5 don't have to take time off of work or miss part of your wedding? That's why I asked OP why 4 pm, and whether her guests are coming from out of town or are local. Mostly local guests with traditional work schedules? I think 4 pm is inconsiderate. Mostly local guests but primarily people who work a non-traditional schedule? 4 pm might make more sense then. Mostly out of town guests who will have to take Friday off regardless of what time the ceremony starts? 4 pm might make more sense then as well. But in general a weekday wedding before 6 pm indicates to me that you may be valuing your vision more than your guests.

Out of curiosity, does your wedding start before 6 pm? Is that why you identify with what I wrote?

Yes it does ( or did). I will talk to my vendors to see if I can change the start time. I don't know everyone's schedule but out of 22 guests I know 13 of them don't work or make there own hours (retired, own their own business, or stay at home moms). Some work in retail, Then there are my cousins who have several seasonal jobs and are always on tour. My F.I. can only take a few days off so we are having a Friday wedding so we can go on our honeymoon on Saturday and Sunday then come back on Monday. I thought it should start earlier than evening because of traffic and It's downtown, a lot of my guests are elderly, and I also was worried about my vendors working too late. As of right now my start time is 4:30 and the end time is 9:30. Would 5:30-10:30 be more appropriate?

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