Kim Davis Update

Nymeru · September 2015

I know I haven't been one for conversation in while, but I am just confused and frustrated.

So...she's out. After 5 freaking days. That's it. And it seems like she feels vindicated and triumphant. Did her jail time really mean nothing in the scheme of things? I feel so disappointed somehow. It's not like I feel that she should go to jail for life or anything, but somehow 5 days feels like a slap on the wrist, considering the reception she got when she got out. And she gets to keep her job as long as she stays away from marriage licenses...it just pisses me off. Don't you think that at the very least she should lose her position? She's obviously proved she isn't adept at following the law and feels that denying others' rights is her right.

What do you guys think would be actual justice for Kim Davis? Or do you think justice was adequately served?

lyndausvi · September 2015

I would think 5 days is pretty standard for contempt of court charges.

My understanding is her name is being take off the pre-printed marriage licenses. (whatever that means). She herself will not issue same-sexed licenses, but she is unable to keep her staff from doing (which is what she was doing before).

I think the judge wanted this to go away and stop making her a martyr. As long as the people of Rowan county can still get marriage license he feels like it's a reasonable accommodation.

She was told if she keeps her staff from issuing licenses she will be back in jail. It begs the question what if all of the clerks pull religious beliefs defense. Although every since she went into jail they did issue the licenses. If she tries to fire them, they have one hell of a law suit.

I guess time will tell.

ETA - I'm not sure I agree with the outcome, but again time will tell if it was the correct move.

mileybangerz · September 2015

Screw her. The American public deserves justice for having to look at her horrible mugshot for the last several days. And now this .... ?

DarthV8r · September 2015

That picture looks like something out of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

IrishPirate60 · September 2015

Her son works in that office and he has refused to issue licenses to same sex couples. No word if he follows her example of not issuing licenses to straight couples because he doesn't like the SCOTUS decision. As long as there is always someone in the office who will issue a license without her interfering the judge may just let it go.

CMGragain · September 2015

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

JediElizabeth · September 2015

The problem is, she's not a public employee, she's an elected official. The governor doesn't have the power to fire her. (Without knowing specific state policies) I assume a recall election would be the best way, but I'm under the impression that she has a large voting block in the county on her side, so that may not even be worth it in this case.

I hope she just sits down and lets this go. Without her name on the licenses or her authority telling her clerks to give them out, there's nothing tying her to them specifically. If she's worried about her conscious, more time and energy than she deserves has been taken to make it painfully obvious that she has no power in this, and she herself is not responsible for anyone's marriage.

redoryx · September 2015

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

Years ago, I counseled a very talented young man who wanted to be a music teacher in the public schools. He was a Jehovah's Witness, and refused to perform any music relating to holidays. I explained to him that he had a right to his religious beliefs, but he did not have the right to accept a job that he was unwilling to fulfill because of those beliefs. It would be like a vegetarian working in a steakhouse and refusing to cook or serve meat.

She can't be fired, she's an elected official.

The thing is, the option was either jail or a fine and it's clear that she would have had NO problem raising money to pay the fine. Which means it wouldn't even be coming out of her pocket, which sort of defeats the purpose of imposing a fine. So, really, I think jail was the only way to make any kind of impact.

Maggie0829 · September 2015

CMGragain said:

I don't know if she really deserved jail time, but she definitely deserves to be fired from her job. This goes for any public employee who refuses to follow the rules and the law. If I were a taxpayer in that town, I would be furious.

She can't be fired because she is an elected official. And with the amount of support she is getting from citizens in the town I am thinking the majority of those taxpayers are furious for a different reason.

And yes she deserved to go to jail because that is what happens when you violate direct court orders.

CMGragain · September 2015

Well, she should be impeached, then!

novella1186 · September 2015

What disgusts me the most about it is the news footage of her leaving jail with the fucking politicians holding her hands, and she walks out like she's some big hero with a crowd cheering her on. I just want to puke.

Maggie0829 · September 2015

CMGragain said:

Well, she should be impeached, then!

That is a lot easier said then done.

lyndausvi · September 2015

novella1186 said:

What disgusts me the most about it is the news footage of her leaving jail with the fucking politicians holding her hands, and she walks out like she's some big hero with a crowd cheering her on. I just want to puke.

It was so gross.

It would be hard to impeach her. Kentucky is one of those states that still has a majority (although slight) that oppose same-sex marriage. I just don't see the Kentucky legislature getting enough votes to impeach.

OliveOilsMom · September 2015

And the Kentucky legislature won't be back in session until the New Year. So this whole thing may have settled down by then and won't be brought up. The Governor can't even do anything to her, except call back the legislature to a special session to deal with her refusal to do her job. That would probably anger even more people because of the cost to taxpayers to have a special session of the legislature.

I didn't want to see her go to jail because I knew how the religious nuts would see her as some sort of religious hero. But I also knew if she were fined, there would have been donations pouring in to pay the fine. So I think the judge had no choice but to jail her. I just wish, he would have been able to release her without the huge rally for her. They already had a rally planned for that day and some presidential candidates were there as well, so cameras were going to be everywhere. I just wish he could have waited a few more days, when the coverage would have died down a bit.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

lyndausvi said:

I would think 5 days is pretty standard for contempt of court charges.

My understanding is her name is being take off the pre-printed marriage licenses. (whatever that means). She herself will not issue same-sexed licenses, but she is unable to keep her staff from doing (which is what she was doing before).

I think the judge wanted this to go away and stop making her a martyr. As long as the people of Rowan county can still get marriage license he feels like it's a reasonable accommodation.

She was told if she keeps her staff from issuing licenses she will be back in jail. It begs the question what if all of the clerks pull religious beliefs defense. Although every since she went into jail they did issue the licenses. If she tries to fire them, they have one hell of a law suit.

I guess time will tell.

ETA - I'm not sure I agree with the outcome, but again time will tell if it was the correct move.

Novella took the words out of my mouth. However, the last living member of Survivor has threatened to sue her for use of his song at her rally.

To the bolded - her lawyer is on tape after the rally stating they intend to fight the licenses that were issued without her there claiming they are not legal since she did not authorize them and that new licenses won't be legal either since the state didn't have the authority to remove her name. I'm afraid jail just strengthened her crazy resolve!

lyndausvi · September 2015

The longer she stayed in the jail even more supporters who would have come out of the woodworks. They would be all "poor woman thrown in jail by the anti-Christian rite."

Yes jail was necessary. A fine wouldn't have not jack shit for her since she wouldn't have paid it. I.E. she would not have really been punished for her actions.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

And just for fun, this is hands down the best Kim Davis meme!

novella1186 · September 2015

kimmiandkoley said:

And just for fun, this is hands down the best Kim Davis meme!

Bahahaha! I'm dying!

[Deleted User] · September 2015

kimmiandkoley said:

show previous quotes

lyndausvi said:

I would think 5 days is pretty standard for contempt of court charges.

My understanding is her name is being take off the pre-printed marriage licenses. (whatever that means). She herself will not issue same-sexed licenses, but she is unable to keep her staff from doing (which is what she was doing before).

I think the judge wanted this to go away and stop making her a martyr. As long as the people of Rowan county can still get marriage license he feels like it's a reasonable accommodation.

She was told if she keeps her staff from issuing licenses she will be back in jail. It begs the question what if all of the clerks pull religious beliefs defense. Although every since she went into jail they did issue the licenses. If she tries to fire them, they have one hell of a law suit.

I guess time will tell.

ETA - I'm not sure I agree with the outcome, but again time will tell if it was the correct move.

Novella took the words out of my mouth. However, the last living member of Survivor has threatened to sue her for use of his song at her rally.

To the bolded - her lawyer is on tape after the rally stating they intend to fight the licenses that were issued without her there claiming they are not legal since she did not authorize them and that new licenses won't be legal either since the state didn't have the authority to remove her name. I'm afraid jail just strengthened her crazy resolve!

I was SO happy this morning when I heard the bolded. That rally made me feel nauseous.

cj3561 · September 2015

Wait, the Eye of the Tiger playing in the background was actually happening, in real life? I thought for sure someone on the internet just threw that in the clip I watched as a joke.

.... That was for real?

lyndausvi · September 2015

cj3561 said:

Wait, the Eye of the Tiger playing in the background was actually happening, in real life? I thought for sure someone on the internet just threw that in the clip I watched as a joke.

.... That was for real?

nope. It was real. I saw it live.

MairePoppy · September 2015

In case anyone missed this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-huckabee-id-go-to-jail-in-kim-davis-place/

I read somewhere that Huckabee's aides tried to prevent other politicians from getting a 'money shot' with Kim. (love that phraseology). This is a man who wants to be president and would presumably swear to uphold the Constitution of the US, ecouraging an elected official to deny other citizens their contitutional rights.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

MairePoppy said:

In case anyone missed this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-huckabee-id-go-to-jail-in-kim-davis-place/

I read somewhere that Huckabee's aides tried to prevent other politicians from getting a 'money shot' with Kim. (love that phraseology). This is a man who wants to be president and would presumably swear to uphold the Constitution of the US, ecouraging an elected official to deny other citizens their contitutional rights.

I read the same article! I can't believe Ted Cruz who is the ultimate bully just stood by. Did you see his sad face?

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/641325502289059841/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

drunkenwitch · September 2015

What makes me want to scream is the idiots comparing her to Rosa Parks and Dr. King. She is nothing, NOTHING like them. They were heroes who risked their lives for civil liberties and equality. Rosa Parks and Dr. King spoke about peace, tolerance and human rights. Kim Davis is a bigot and an attention whore.

kmmssg · September 2015

This whole thing just pisses me off. I am a (fairly?) conservative Christian, and pro marriage equality.

Over many years I had to repeat the oath that says "I will protect and defend The Constitution of the United States from all threats, foreign and domestic." Not the parts of The Constitution I agree with - the whole kajuna. There is no picking and choosing and there might possibly be a thing or two that is constitutional that I disagree with.

I can have great respect for someone who puts their money where their mouth is and says, "This violates what I truly believe is right so I have no choice but to step down from my position." I don't have to agree with your position but if it really goes against your beliefs and choose to step down, I will respect that.

It is all but definite that she is going to interfere with future marriage licenses. She has vowed to fight the legality of those that were issued. When she shows up for work again, this will end like a scene out of Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Let's take this a little further - you are at the grocery store. In lane one you have a cashier who is devoutly Jewish and won't sell you that bacon. In lane two, you have a devout Catholic who refuses to sell condoms to the 17 yo boy who IS going to have sex tonight, and in lane 3 you have a devout Christian who refuses to sell you that copy of 50 Shades of Gray.

If you take a job you have to be willing to do it completely. If the terms of the job change and you feel it violates your conscience you need to step down. And, if you have are an elected official and feel you can't abide by what the SCOTUS says is constitutional, you need to step the hell down.

redoryx · September 2015

kmmssg said:

This whole thing just pisses me off. I am a (fairly?) conservative Christian, and pro marriage equality.

Over many years I had to repeat the oath that says "I will protect and defend The Constitution of the United States from all threats, foreign and domestic." Not the parts of The Constitution I agree with - the whole kajuna. There is no picking and choosing and there might possibly be a thing or two that is constitutional that I disagree with.

I can have great respect for someone who puts their money where their mouth is and says, "This violates what I truly believe is right so I have no choice but to step down from my position." I don't have to agree with your position but if it really goes against your beliefs and choose to step down, I will respect that.

It is all but definite that she is going to interfere with future marriage licenses. She has vowed to fight the legality of those that were issued. When she shows up for work again, this will end like a scene out of Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Let's take this a little further - you are at the grocery store. In lane one you have a cashier who is devoutly Jewish and won't sell you that bacon. In lane two, you have a devout Catholic who refuses to sell condoms to the 17 yo boy who IS going to have sex tonight, and in lane 3 you have a devout Christian who refuses to sell you that copy of 50 Shades of Gray.
If you take a job you have to be willing to do it completely. If the terms of the job change and you feel it violates your conscience you need to step down. And, if you have are an elected official and feel you can't abide by what the SCOTUS says is constitutional, you need to step the hell down.

well, yes, she probably will but, when she was released she was ordered to not interfere with the other clerks issuing the licenses so if she does, she'll end up back in jail. Probably for longer, I imagine.

kmmssg · September 2015

@Redoryx - agreed, and the martyring will become front page news again. As a taxpayer I completely understand the governor not spending a few hundred grand to bring back the legislature. The courts are the appropriate way to deal with this and she will, once again, be the headlines of the news.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2015

redoryx said:

show previous quotes

kmmssg said:

This whole thing just pisses me off. I am a (fairly?) conservative Christian, and pro marriage equality.

Over many years I had to repeat the oath that says "I will protect and defend The Constitution of the United States from all threats, foreign and domestic." Not the parts of The Constitution I agree with - the whole kajuna. There is no picking and choosing and there might possibly be a thing or two that is constitutional that I disagree with.

I can have great respect for someone who puts their money where their mouth is and says, "This violates what I truly believe is right so I have no choice but to step down from my position." I don't have to agree with your position but if it really goes against your beliefs and choose to step down, I will respect that.

It is all but definite that she is going to interfere with future marriage licenses. She has vowed to fight the legality of those that were issued. When she shows up for work again, this will end like a scene out of Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Let's take this a little further - you are at the grocery store. In lane one you have a cashier who is devoutly Jewish and won't sell you that bacon. In lane two, you have a devout Catholic who refuses to sell condoms to the 17 yo boy who IS going to have sex tonight, and in lane 3 you have a devout Christian who refuses to sell you that copy of 50 Shades of Gray.
If you take a job you have to be willing to do it completely. If the terms of the job change and you feel it violates your conscience you need to step down. And, if you have are an elected official and feel you can't abide by what the SCOTUS says is constitutional, you need to step the hell down.

well, yes, she probably will but, when she was released she was ordered to not interfere with the other clerks issuing the licenses so if she does, she'll end up back in jail. Probably for longer, I imagine.

Anyone want to take bets on what her next "Get of Jail Jam" will be.

Losing my Religion?

Like a Rock?

Baracuda?

Heffalump · September 2015

kimmiandkoley said:

show previous quotes

redoryx said:

kmmssg said:

This whole thing just pisses me off. I am a (fairly?) conservative Christian, and pro marriage equality.

Over many years I had to repeat the oath that says "I will protect and defend The Constitution of the United States from all threats, foreign and domestic." Not the parts of The Constitution I agree with - the whole kajuna. There is no picking and choosing and there might possibly be a thing or two that is constitutional that I disagree with.

I can have great respect for someone who puts their money where their mouth is and says, "This violates what I truly believe is right so I have no choice but to step down from my position." I don't have to agree with your position but if it really goes against your beliefs and choose to step down, I will respect that.

It is all but definite that she is going to interfere with future marriage licenses. She has vowed to fight the legality of those that were issued. When she shows up for work again, this will end like a scene out of Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Let's take this a little further - you are at the grocery store. In lane one you have a cashier who is devoutly Jewish and won't sell you that bacon. In lane two, you have a devout Catholic who refuses to sell condoms to the 17 yo boy who IS going to have sex tonight, and in lane 3 you have a devout Christian who refuses to sell you that copy of 50 Shades of Gray.
If you take a job you have to be willing to do it completely. If the terms of the job change and you feel it violates your conscience you need to step down. And, if you have are an elected official and feel you can't abide by what the SCOTUS says is constitutional, you need to step the hell down.

well, yes, she probably will but, when she was released she was ordered to not interfere with the other clerks issuing the licenses so if she does, she'll end up back in jail. Probably for longer, I imagine.

Anyone want to take bets on what her next "Get of Jail Jam" will be.

Losing my Religion?
Like a Rock?
Baracuda?

Jesus Doesn't Want Me For A Sunbeam.

drunkenwitch · September 2015

redoryx said:

kmmssg said:

This whole thing just pisses me off. I am a (fairly?) conservative Christian, and pro marriage equality.

Over many years I had to repeat the oath that says "I will protect and defend The Constitution of the United States from all threats, foreign and domestic." Not the parts of The Constitution I agree with - the whole kajuna. There is no picking and choosing and there might possibly be a thing or two that is constitutional that I disagree with.

I can have great respect for someone who puts their money where their mouth is and says, "This violates what I truly believe is right so I have no choice but to step down from my position." I don't have to agree with your position but if it really goes against your beliefs and choose to step down, I will respect that.

It is all but definite that she is going to interfere with future marriage licenses. She has vowed to fight the legality of those that were issued. When she shows up for work again, this will end like a scene out of Groundhog Day. Here we go again.

Let's take this a little further - you are at the grocery store. In lane one you have a cashier who is devoutly Jewish and won't sell you that bacon. In lane two, you have a devout Catholic who refuses to sell condoms to the 17 yo boy who IS going to have sex tonight, and in lane 3 you have a devout Christian who refuses to sell you that copy of 50 Shades of Gray.
If you take a job you have to be willing to do it completely. If the terms of the job change and you feel it violates your conscience you need to step down. And, if you have are an elected official and feel you can't abide by what the SCOTUS says is constitutional, you need to step the hell down.

well, yes, she probably will but, when she was released she was ordered to not interfere with the other clerks issuing the licenses so if she does, she'll end up back in jail. Probably for longer, I imagine.

Anyone want to take bets on what her next "Get of Jail Jam" will be.

Losing my Religion?
Like a Rock?
Baracuda?

_________ETA Come back boxes!______

Going off the rails on the crazy train?

lyndausvi · September 2015

It's been reported she has agreed NOT to interfere with her other staff issuing licenses like she did before.

It will be interesting if she actually does that or claims they are not issuing licences due to their beliefs.

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